Spokane Mayor-Gay? - Bash at our own risk - its the same old story

[Stinky The Clown]

I just watched the story on this on Olbermann's show. The Cliff Notes about Hizzonor are:

Former Marine, former cop
Former state legislator, former and current anti gay rights crusader
Social (Christian extremist?) conservative
Current Spokane, WA mayor

20 year old history of allegations of some hanky panky with boys
He cops to chatting in a gay male chat room

Busted by the local Daily Blah for soliciting a reporter posing as a 17 year old boy, offers the 'boy' a city hall internship. Daily Blah sez that's the real story ... using city bux to entice a possible homosexual partner-albeit an underage one.

So what the fuck do we **do** with this? *Should* we do anything with this? I ask, because this has the potential to cut both ways.

On the one hand, it shows the hypocrisy of the moralist class. Anti Gay crusader chats with men in a gay centric computer chat room. That's an easy one. Kick his ass and watch him squeal.

On the other hand, we have this man about whom we can make the case that he is a repressed gay man. In short: He's gay. And what is this gay man doing? Why, he's attempting to sexually abuse a child.

So let's make the uninformed, unconsidered connection: Gay men seek to sexually abuse children. Therefor, Gay men are predators. Gay men are evil.

What the hell do we do about this?

We can't win when we win.

[opiate69]

1. The hypocricy angle...

The fact that he is a bisexual man, who has made his career (in a very conservative area) by coming out as against progressive rights for gays, proves he is nothing more than a pandering fuckwit who will simply say anything he thinks will keep the votes coming in. I'd lay off the molestation allegations until there is some more concrete evidence.

[harpo]

25. ditto on the hypocricy...allegations aren't proof, look at O.J.

[whatelseisnew]

2. well now, repressed, self-hating 'gay' men may be predators

Is he gay or is he perpetuating the cycle of abuse?

Most molestors learned because they were victims from what I have read.

Where is the evidence that he is gay.

So far I only see evidence that he is a predator

[Stinky The Clown]

8. He has admitted to having relationships with men

and he's admitted to participating in a gay chat room.

So yeah, in addition to 'evidence' that he's a predator, he's admitted to being gay or bi.

(all according to the story on teevee)

[BrklynLiberal]

3. It is not gay men who are evil...it is the SELF-LOATHING gay men

who are afraid to admit who they really are and go to extremes to hide it that are the danger to all gay people.
In their fear and self-loathing they harm themselves and discredit all gay people by their behavior.
They do this not only by their overt homophobia, but also by their secretive, guilt-ridden behavior that is the result of the self-loathing that they cannot admit even to themselves.
They do not reflect badly on gays. They reflect badly on a society that makes some people feel so badly about being gay, that they hate themselves so much that they can do horribly self-destructive things, and hurt others as well.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. That's the 'why' more than the 'what' .... I agree with your notion, but

my point is that, to anyone watching this story casually, it is waaaaaaay too easy to leap from 'gay' to 'child molester'.

My concern is not with this asshole in particular. It is with the way these stories just continue to feed the urban legend that gays are by definition child molesters.

As the extremists like to point out .... gays want to convert our children to their perversion ....

This is a notion that needs some countering.

[bonzotex]

21. some won't "get it" no matter what

Homophobes will pretty much assume he's a pedophile or whatever evil they want to assign to gays. It doesn't matter. No one will ever get more enlightened, however, if we refuse to talk about cases like this.
We have to point out:
a) his sleazy hypocrisy
b) Gays that acknowledge their sexuality and accept it are happier
c) Gays are no more likely to be pedophiles than straights. (in fact I think there are some studies showing the vast majority of sexual criminals are straight, but I don't have references)
d) People whose sexuality is open, honest, and accepted by their community don't usually sneak around trying to con or bribe teenagers into sex.
e)oh yeah, his sleazy self-righteous hypocrisy again.

[formernaderite]

32. My brothers current partner was convicted of child sexual abuse....

for having a relationship with a 17 year old male many years ago. Without going into details...it's very common for gay men to begin relationships as teenagers with older gay men. Why? They're too uncomfortable to come out to their peers, and have to look to older men for companionship. Even as society is more accepting of gay relationships, this won't change much at the high school level. There just aren't that many gay teens in any given school.
When my brother first told me of his partners conviction, I was appalled, until I spoke with him. It's never cut and dry, yet, he will go through his entire life looked upon as a pederast.

[bonzotex]

18. right on

It's about repressed sexuality. If you live in a society that makes sexuality shameful and sinful. You end up with closeted, hypocritical, self loathing predators. Gay, straight or bisexual, it doesn't matter. Sad cases like West are made by a repressive society, not by homosexuality.

[MnFats]

4. he gave gifts that had come his way via the auspices of his office..

to some of the men he had sex with.
it would be the same if he had sex with women and gave them gifts, and the same if the mayor were a women -- straight or lesbian.
translation: he abused his office to obtain sex.
he should be gone.

who gives a shit if he's gay, bi, closeted?

the biggest issue in this fracas is that he used the trappings of elective office to get laid. That should be the lead paragraph of the whole story.

but people want salacious scandals, and the media are only too happy to provide them.....

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Please see my post - #9 - above

This guy and his story is local news and will play itself out ... in the news and in the courts. In the end, he's toast.

My concern is the public perception. The thinking of the vast 'unenlightened' among us. Unenlightened who are empowered with a vote.

[efhmc]

5. Hung by his own petard. We need say naught.

[Orangepeel]

6. well, in general, I don't like the idea of "stings"

but other than possibly having to be on the "wrong" side of the law and order issue by defending the rights of a sleaze bag, I don't really see why this is a difficult story.

Coming on to a 17 year old? Sleazy.
Offering an internship in exchange for sex? Sleazy.
Being a self righteous hypocrite? Sleazy.

Big deal if he's gay.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. It *is* a big deal that he's gay. Its the nexus of "gay" to "predator"

that the uninformed and unenlightened make every day. This story and the many like it simply serve to perpetuate it.

I dunno ... maybe I'm overreacting ..... :shrug:

But I somehow can't shake the notion that this **type* of story does us less good than it does harm. Even in full view of the obvious hypocrisy of the man.

[Orangepeel]

16. okay, I get your point....

graduate of illogic 101 will think 1) guy is sleaze bag and 2) guy is gay means 3)gay is sleaze bag

but, I don't see what there is to do about it, except try to stress what the real issues are and are not.

[Stinky The Clown]

23. Thank you! Thank you!

I'm not usually so inarticulate.

I don't know what we can do about it either, but it struck me when I heard it that it is a recurring theme everytime these (all too frequent) stories come out. I was thinking the same thing through all the priest scandals.

The story line's always the same ..... authority figure ..... under age homosexual encounter ..... abuse ....... gay man.

The priest scandals would have been a good time to have a 'national debate' on the dead wrong but all too common jump in people's minds from pedophile to gay.

[MADem]

7. Go where that guy at BlogActive is going

He's outing the closet cases whose policies do not match their lifestyles. He got Ed Schrock with some priceless audio tape...and that guy could have been reelected without even campaigning, had not his tapes been widely publicized.

Why should they enjoy the lifestyle privately, and decry it publicly at the same time? That's like hiding in the pantry, shovelling in the Hagen Daz, and not letting anyone else have any ice cream, while preaching that ice cream is somehow bad for you...

I say get 'em. Get 'em good!

[janx]

10. I heard about this, but--

how young was the kid/were the kids he propositioned online?

Frankly, I'm so tired of the hypocrisy. So tired!

[Stinky The Clown]

13. The most recent event was a 17 year old chat room personna created by

a newspaper reporter. No actual kid was involved. But there are some sketchy 20+ year old allegations that were alluded to, but not amplified.

[miss_kitty]

15. The chatroom personality was posing as 18, not 17

see my post #14

[LTRS]

27. Nope, you're wrong

It's being downplayed in the local WA media, but the chat room transcripts confirm that the poser was posing as a 17 yr old when the sting began. You can read the transcripts online at the Spokesman Review news web site.

[miss_kitty]

29. cool thanks

I used to habitually go to the source-I just figured the folks at the PI READ the Spokesman-Review.

[janx]

17. That doesn't make the guy a pedophile, exactly.

Think of the heterosexual guys who do the same thing. I'm not afraid of how the religious right will frame it. What happened was (as you well pointed out) entirely predictable.

[miss_kitty]

14. I have not heard him admit to doing a kid. He has admitted to doing

men. And he hasn't been convicted of doing kids. The Olbermann show had the age wrong. It wasn't an underage sex sting, it was a favours-for-sex-from-the-mayor sting. Both times I heard the story on the news in Seattle, the person that got the drop on him was posing as an 18 year old. From the Seattle PI:
"...The newspaper last week launched a series of articles about West after hiring a computer forensics expert who posed as an 18-year-old male high school student in Internet chats with West on Gay.com. West offered the "teen" a City Hall internship, tickets to professional sporting events and other gifts, the newspaper reported earlier..." http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=WA%20Spokane%20Mayor

Did you know he was a state rep and senator here in the 80s 90s? And he proposed to his then future, now erstwhile wife on the floor of the house. It lasted 5 years. Surprisingly enough, no children were produced by this union.

The word out of Spokaloo is this (also via the PI):
"Embattled Mayor James West said Monday he will take a leave of absence for a "few weeks" to prepare to defend himself against a newspaper's allegations of child molestation and that he offered city jobs to men he met online..."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Spokane%20Mayor&searchdiff=0&searchpagefrom=1

And reminded me of this chestnut I found also in the PI:
"...In 1998, West got major publicity when he made a threatening phone call to building industry lobbyist Tom McCabe during a political dispute. He left a screaming message on an answering machine in which he warned McCabe, "you better get me, 'cause if you don't you're dead." (This, by the way, was a fabulous recording)
West was forced to pay $500 to a charity and apologize to McCabe in a plea agreement. The incident cemented his reputation as a tough guy and loose cannon..."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Spokane%20Mayor%20Profile&searchdiff=0&searchpagefrom=1

While the Seattle PI isn't local, they're a bit closer than Olbermann.

He has done some stupid horrendous shit in this state against gay rights and is anti abortion as well. I think his best punishment would be for him to realise fully and truly what harm he has done and what a true detriment to society he has been.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. I don't doubt your accuracy, but I could swear I heard on Olbermann that

the personna was 17. But I was eating pizza, so I may have missed it.

Seriously ... I am near certain I heard 17. While no actual kid was involved, its kinda important to know the age he *thought* he was talking to.

Also seriously .. I *was* eating pizza when I heard this. :)

[miss_kitty]

30. Hey! now *I* was wrong

actually my sources were wrong. I should have read the Spokesman-Review-which was readily available and the source for this story. Shows me a thing or two. Still haven't read it yet-too busy dishing out apologies...:)

[LTRS]

26. Nope, the poser was posing as 17

... all you have to do is read the chat transcripts, which are online at the Spokesman Review newspaper web site. Confusion comes from the fact that the poser claimed he had a birthday through the course of the online relationship, and turned 18.

So, Olberman is right, and the PI as well as all the local papers here (your so called liberal media) are downplaying the fact that the poser was posing as a 17 yr old when the sting began. I'd say that has some relevance when it comes to the issue of whether or not the good mayor is a pedophile. They also have a 19 year old who claims that the good mayor asked him out, repeatedly, when the kid was 15. The guys parents confirm that the kid told them that as well, over a year ago.

[miss_kitty]

31. Uh-euwwwww!

:puke:

[FourStarDemocrat]

19. I happen to think that the Spokane newspaper did a great job of

investigative reporting to uncover the whole thing. The main aspects of this story is that he was abusing his office in order to attempt to enter into sexual liasons with other people, and in this case an underage, 17-year old male, accordign to the paper that broke the story. I think it does not matter if the person was a plant, and that it was a sting operation. He was still caught in a conspiracy to do this- just like undercover underage kids are sent into stores to try to purchase liquor, or fake prostitutes are on the streets. Al though I am curious to know why this investigation wasn't turned over to the DA at any point, perhaps it was at the end.

I admit that sometimes this can go a little too far, but in the case of people holding high political office they must be kept accountable. Too often in this country, arrogant misleaders like those in the Bush administration, and Tom Delay et al run amok, arrogantly believing that there'll be little or no oversight by the press. These politicians, especially the ones that work against the rights of others should fear the press if they have criminal or fraudulant skeletons in their closets. It appears that the WA reporters had valid leads that they decided that the story was worth investigating for for three years. I wouldn't otherwise condone the outing of political figures, but this is something more. In addition, two former felons also claim that this mayor molested them years ago when they were 17 years-old. I'm not sure how credible they will be if it comes to a trial. I am glad it came out however. It shows their hypocrisy. And in my view, most people in this country who are not fundies recognize that there are big differences between gay people and child sexual preditors.

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. Jim West is, and has always been, a hypocritical fucking piece of shit.

The only difference now is that we know one more thing he was hypocritical about.

[efhmc]

28. Don't know the person but hypocrisy is the same, whether gay

or not and the repuklican party is saturated with it.

[seabeyond]

24. there are more gays hiding out in this top republican party

as they use, USE gays as a wedge issue. get em out. loud and bold. let the nation adn all these "christians" see the gays everywhere, and their hypocrisy. we dont have issue with a single one of these men. they have issue with self, their party has issue with them, their religion has issue with them.

i say it is a universal gift........to get beyond the gay thing. and when presented with a universal gift, i merely say thank you

these men created exactly the atmosphere they now live

a dem comes out, pish,......nothing. that is what democratic party has created. would be nothing