Reagan/Bush Democrats

[erpowers]

For many years now people have claimed that a group called the Reagan Democrats gave Reagan his victory in the 1980 election. I would like to know if this was a real phenomenon or if many of these democrats were those that actually only vote for the Democratic Party on the local level. I am asking this in that we know that Republican tried to make a Bush Democrats category in the 2004 election. However, those Democrats, like Sumner Redstone, were people who I would not call Democrats. So I wonder if the Reagan Democrat category is the same.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Otherwise known as

Republicans.

[etherealtruth]

3. Not really ...

... I lived in Macomb County Michigan in 1980 (also the year I turned 18 and was able to vote). This county gained "notoriety" based on the fact that an usually democratic county, populated by large amounts of blue collar workers and union members voted in strong numbers for Reagan (both times).

I had an "intro to American politics" class shortly following the election ... the professor attributed his win to his personal charm and charisma, his "movie star" status and looks, coupled with the lack of sophistication of the voters.

Macomb County did not "go for" Bush either time.

I did not vote for Reagan (hated his presidency only slightly less than *'s).

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. One can make a (shoddy)case for 1980 but

his policies were so anti-Democratic that the 1984 vote would clearly show these voters for what they were/are.

[etherealtruth]

10. You missed my point ...

In the case of Reagan it had little to do with his policies, but more to do with his personal charisma (which that too, was lost on me). Voters here were still charmed by the man and ignorant about his policies.

Macomb County I used as example has not "gone" for any of the republican candidates since Reagan------the demographics of the county are changing and with increased gentrification it is not the democratic stronghold it traditionally was.

Living outside of Michigan for years, I felt a special sense of embarrassment r/t to the political pundits using Macomb county Michigan as the "poster child" for "Reagan Democrats".

You state:"his policies were so anti-Democratic that the 1984 vote would clearly show these voters for what they were/are." -----I think that was point, these people voted AGAINST their own interest because of Reagan, the man.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Democrats aren't "enthralled" by the "man."

My point is that real Democrats aren't effected by the hairspray. The ones that are Indys or Fearpublicans are. I accept your premise that many Centrist voters pulled the personality lever; what I don't accept is that they were Dems to begin with. In my view, Democrats are nothing if not tolerant. Those that wander into the Big Tent are there because they are curious, not because they are believers. Those standing at the perimeter of the Big Tent are the one's duped by Reagan/Chimp, not the paying customers in the grandstands.

"Reagan Democrats" are a construct of the right. Admittedly, a clever construct.

[etherealtruth]

13. While I don't entirely dispute the "clever construct"...

without the idea of Reagan democrats it is difficult to explain why the Macomb county Dem's of the time voted for Democrats in (basically) all other offices (federal, state and local): http://www.detnews.com/2004/politics/0409/08/a01-265586.htm

"In the early 1980s, the county was recognized nationally as the land of the Reagan Democrats, when voters in Macomb chose Ronald Reagan while electing Democrats for every county office."

Macomb county info:
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/allpolitics/0010/battleground.states/text/michigan.html

The residents of Macomb County at that time WERE democrats---your statements clearly explain Reagan's wins in the south.

I am not claiming that my neighbors voted for Reagan for logical reasons --- and that is my point personal charisma. I never claimed that democrats were enthralled by Reagan's person ----but "Reagan democrats" were (define Reagan Dem's as people who considered themselves Dems and generally voted for Dems in all offices except POTUS)

Moving back to Michigan and Macomb County in 2000, I noted that the county has changed---- becoming more affluent and more conservative-----But , the residents at the time of the Reagan Democrats were truly Democrats who voted for Reagan.

We went narrowly for Kerry in the last election.

Far clearer than anything I had to say:
http://www.policyreview.org/AUG01/arens.html

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. First line, paragraph two.

The centrist “New Democrat” argument was submitted by Al From, founder and CEO of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC); Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI), a DLC-affiliated think tank; the New Democrats’ official pollster, Mark Penn; and their top intellectual, William Galston.


They're Centrists( read: "Golly Gee! What do I do? I'm incapable of discerning who's better" voters), not Democrats.


I don't doubt that registered Dems voted for Reagan. I just doubt that that is what they really were/are.

[etherealtruth]

16. I did read the lines and still chose to include that link ...

...OK, you will never believe me that these people were definitely democrats ...of course they were more centrist ---far left democrats won't vote for a republican ever --- These people were generally auto-workers and union workers who supported the Democratic party---- voted for democratic candidates and added in a great percentage to the democratic party coffers.

They were (and are) centrist DEMOCRATS --- That was what I had responded to in your post (#1) "Otherwise known as Republicans." Your arguments don't explain WHY the county stayed Democratic except for the POTUS (?)

Most Americans are CENTRIST repukes or dem's. Writing the Macomb County "Reagan Dem's" off as republicans is counterproductive to the success of the democratic party. Kerry won here due to the efforts of local Democrats to appeal to this type of Democrat.

I do think you have made good points in general; however, Macomb County Michigan was home to real "Reagan Democrats" (unlike the south where many of the southern Dem's were far more conservative than Northern repukes) ---- there were many factors at play. I will keep insisting that writing moderate dem's off as being "republican" won't win any elections.

As I stated earlier, the county didn't "go" for Bush despite an increase in the # of actual republicans in the county. IMO this was because * is not charismatic and/or appealing on his own and the policies and agenda of his administration on their own could not attract the voters. In Bush's initial run Macomb County went for John McCain ...

Please just consider the possibility that these people were democrats who for whatever reason wanted to believe RR.

[Debs]

17. I have to agree

I have a union job and Reagan was popular with almost half of my coworkers even after he pulled the fire the air traffic controllers stunt. I was told by one good union man that Raygun was a good man. I said what about the air controllers he said, yeah that was terrible, what about what we are doing in Central America. Its shameful he said we have to stop the killing down there. The economy? Yeah its terrible, he should do a better job on the deficit. I said what is it you like about this guy and his response was, he is a good man. The man didn't agree with a single Raygun policy and yet he somehow still supported him. I considered it some particularly virulent form of temporary insanity

[etherealtruth]

19. I like your assessment ...

..."some particularly virulent form of temporary insanity"

[Tom Rinaldo]

2. Few people called themselves Reagan Democrats

That's what the media and pundits called mostly life long Democrats who voted for Reagan and thereafter were far from loyal Democrats. There is a difference between that and someone lending their name to an organization like Republicans for Kerry or Democrats for Bush.

Face it, the Democratic Party does not have nearly as solid a base in the working/Lower Middle Class now as it used to, for example. Lots of reasons for that and the turning away wasn't exactly a matter of them forging a new loyalty to Reagan personally. "Reagan Democrats" is a convenient quick and dirty descriptive term, that in some cases is literal but more often is not.

[ClassWarrior]

4. More Radical RW spin.

NGU.

[wyldwolf]

5. phenomenon started in the late 60s/early 70s

Southern Democrats remained loyal to the Dem party on the local, state, and national Senate and House levels but began trending Republican in presidential elections.

In the 1980 election, more Democrats nationwide (not just in the south) cast their votes for Reagan because of perceived Democratic cultural elitism and interest group politics.

Consequently, this feeling by Democrats also led to the 1982 Senate defeats and the 1994 Senate and House defeats.

[HawkerHurricane]

6. I've heard them called...

"White Ethnics"... Italians, Poles, Irish, and others. Traditionally Democratic and pro-Union, in the 1980's they changed sides over culture and race... they'd seen racism against them by the Northern European (anglo-German), and disliked the affirmative action programs that helped Blacks but ignored injustice against them.

[omega minimo]

7. Mass media

began hammering the message that Reagan was the winner in JUNE of 1980. Carter conceded hours before the West voted. Millions of voters stayed home. Reagan's "landslide" was a joke, just like he was.

[dajoki]

9. worse than ever

i didn't think politics could get any worse than it was during the reagan era. I WAS WRONG!! by the way i never pulled a republican lever in the voting booth ever, never. loyal democrat my whole life!!:D

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. The fact that Jellybean brain won 49 states in 1984

...obviously means that a lot of Democrats voted for him. My dad was one of them. I certainly was not (I was proud to cast my first vote ever against that fucking empty headed geezer).

I don't believe that equals a sub-genre of Democrats. My dad didn't vote for either Bush, and in fact he called Junior the Antichrist even before I did. Of course the illusion of "Reagan Democrats" certainly served the DLC well. They have marketed their entire agenda toward this mythical group while alienating the traditional base of this party. The folks who know this country would be far better off today if Bush's October Surprise hadn't stolen Jimmy Carter's second term :(

[Hippo_Tron]

14. The "Reagan Democrats" were going to vote for Dukakis in large numbers

Bush's strategists created focus groups to find out what would get these "Reagan Democrats" from voting for him instead of Dukakis. The result was the Willie Horton ad.

[nevergiveup]

18. Yeah, I remember. Coming out of the Democratic Convention

Dukakis lead Bush by 17 percentage points and it evaporated almost over-night .....Willie Horton and also the TV commercial with Dukakis in a tank finished him for good.