Conservatives must be sad and feel betrayed by bush

[BOSSHOG]

He says that Amnesty International is wrong, that Americans aren't thugs who beat up, piss on and torture prisoners. This revelation must really irk the pencil dick macho cowardly chickenhawks at free republic. You know the one's who value life and think bush is a good christian and that the President should always tell the truth. They want American Servicemembers to torture the "ragheads" and fuck their Quran; now bush has let them down (with another lie.)

It really must suck being a conservative in America today, knowing your political leaders are liars and crooks who are slaves to the religiously insane. And knowing that you are looked at with scorn by those Americans who value the constitution for all Americans; you know liberals and the like.

Against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC.

[converted_democrat]

1. I know many pissed of conservatives!!!!

I was one, and so was my Dad. There are alot of people that feel betrayed because loyalty is huge part of their mindset. Most people I know are really embarrassed that they backed Bush. I mean can you imagine what it would be like looking like a fool in front of small town when you figure out your backing a liar? It is a BIG deal. It shoots your credibility, ya know? It brings your character into question. We should be befriending these people. We would have the "gun nuts" and the "brains" on the same team. We could win this much quicker, if we could just pull more people onto our team.

[atreides1]

4. The first step

Is getting them to admit that they were wrong, and to not be overly concerned about looking like a fool. In other words they need to be
more worried about the direction this country is taking, and not their egos.

Loyalty is great, blind loyalty is the thing that helps catapults
dictators and tyrants into power.

[converted_democrat]

6. Most have already admitted it............

They just have very little understanding of the law and have no idea of who to contact to make a stink. (They are used to being spoon fed what to do from the preacher)And because people would rather make fun of them, instead of help them, here we set. There are alot of pissed off conservatives, but they have no direction, and it helps no one. People need to stop focusing on who's right or who's wrong and just fix the problem. Do you want to win the battle, or do you want to win the war? Embarrassing them more and making them beg for forgiveness from the Democrats isn't going to help anyone, and it will make the rift bigger between us. You can keep trying it, but it hasn't worked before, so I doubt highly that it will work now. Just keep beating your head against the wall, see if it helps anyone. Or, you could take the attitude that everyone makes mistakes, get over it, work with the conservatives, and save our country. Guess it's your move.

[Cha]

33. Good point..I think if

I backed a LOSER at one time..and found it out later..I would cut my losses and Run to someone who fit what I wanted out of a leader.

I don't have much experience in that field since I backed Gore, Dean, and Kerry.

[ArkDem]

8. Have to be careful no to piss them of, though.

[converted_democrat]

9. Exactly, people don't like being wrong, or feeling had............

Making fun of them, or demanding that they admit the wrong is counterproductive. Just go after the things you have in common--gas prices, health care prices, safety for our children. Then explain the Downing St. minutes. ( most conservatives hate lies and liars) Let them know the truth. Don't even try to talk about the explosive issues. Just remember if you can bring them gently to our team on these issues, we have a better shot at them at least paying attention to our other causes later down the line. If we open their minds a little at a time, before you know it their minds will be completely open.

[paula777]

13. That's really good to hear because the right wingers I know are still

hell bent on saying * is great and the war was a good idea and yada yada. And I just sit in amazement that they are still under his spell. It's good to hear that some of the people that backed him are now realizing they were lied to and fooled

[TahitiNut]

2. Where there's no sense ...

... there's no feeling. :evilgrin:

[converted_democrat]

7. Been reading your work for along time...............

sad to see you take that position. I guess respect is a funny thing, it built up alot over the years of reading your posts, however it only took a day to lose it.

[TahitiNut]

12. Get thee to a logician. (I.e. Consider the contrapositive.)

:shrug: (Look it up.)

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

16. "Physician heal thyself."

Try modeling what you want others to emulate. "Be the change you wish to see in the world." Further, I've often found it's far more fruitful to make observations regarding human behavior in the inclusive sense rather than from a pretense of being an outside observer or judge.


Bonus Suggestion: Examine the distinction between "you're" and "your." A demonstrated comprehension of such distinctions invites respect and enhances credibility.

[BeFree]

19. Don't worry

We will win this war. We will win power again, and when we do we will crush the con insurgents who hate America. No longer will they be able to keep people down, ruin the federal budget with tax breaks for the rich, and world record defense spending, nor will they be able to spread their lies so easily.

We will win because if we don't, the cons will replace the American dream with continuous nightmare of Shock and Awe, federal bankruptcy, and erosion of basic human rights.

We kicked the con's asses in the 70's, we will now have to kick their asses again in this new century. It would be nice if we didn't have to do that ass kicking, but really, what choice have they left us?

Ordinarily, at this point I would welcome you to DU, but I can see that you still don't have a clue as to what we are really about and I suspect you never will and you may eventually be ex-communicated. Why? Here is a quote from you:

"Your no better than the Free Republic, if not worse"

If you can't see by now, I doubt you ever will.

[Name removed]

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[TahitiNut]

17. "Mirror, mirror, on the wall ..."

:eyes:

[Name removed]

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[TahitiNut]

20. You want help? OK. Here you go, luv ...

[converted_democrat]

26. Thank you.............

Thank you for helping me realize that the left is no better than the right. Also, thanks for making me understand and see ignorance isn't just a commodity held by the right.

[Name removed]

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[BeFree]

28. Calling someone a jerk, fyi

.... is against DU rules, eh?

Anyway, I am not surprised... or cowered by your spewing. Nor by the lies of the "Right?", as so many people are. No, what I am doing is making the best use of the American time honored tradition of standing up for my Constitutional Rights and calling a liar a liar, and having those liars be brought to justice. To act any other way is to bow to your masters. No thanks, time we kicked some ass.

[converted_democrat]

29. Dude..........

Your wrong as wrong can be..........Your not helping anyone by saying you want to "kick ass" you don't know any "Republicans" do you? You need to go look up holds vast majority of the guns in this country, and befriend them and help them understand the truth instead of calling them names and making fun of them. This is ignorant, and as long as that's the way you wish to be viewed keep it up. People make mistakes, that's what makes them human. If you can't see that, than there isn't any hope for you or our nation. Don't you understand the lies and propaganda that they have had to live with? Your honestly suggesting that we should punish people for not knowing any better? We should punish them instead of educate them, that's what your saying?
I don't think it's cool your suggesting I'm a liar either. I have never tried to do anything but help people with the various causes of this board. I call, I write letters to help you people, even if some of you don't deserve it.

[Name removed]

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[paula777]

36. You guys - please read Auntie Pinko's Q & A on the main page

It's relevant to this little fued and I think it's really good advice

edit :popcorn:

[BeFree]

37. I still say....

....we need to kick ass. It's all they truly understand.

As for Auntie Pinko's piece all I can say is she must have been sipping some kool-aid. At this point in time, with the politics so out of balance, politics is the most important thing. We need to kick some political ass to get back in balance. Thanks, paula, for sharing.

[converted_democrat]

42. Just because you've done a bad job explaining does not mean that

is all they understand. They hold these views, because they don't know any better. When was the last time you showed up in the country walking door to door trying to tell them the truth? These are hard working people that work 80 hours a week and don't have time to read anything. And no they don't use the computer either. We are talking about people that believe the internet is the devils tool only to be used for porn. No joke.

[LondonReign2]

46. You can use the internet for something other than porn?

Who knew! }(

[TahitiNut]

43. "There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ..."

"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." — Lord Acton

[converted_democrat]

44. Do you honestly think bringing more hate and ignorance to the table is

going to help? Making fun of people is ignorant, no matter who you are. Your statements aren't funny, they're sad. Your making the rift between your brothers bigger, how does that help anyone? Laughing about people that were not given the same opportunities that you or others around you have been given is low. These people are ignorant about your way, and you guys are definitely ignorant to theirs. The only way to fix this is deeper understanding on both parts. They have an excuse for not knowing any better. Do you?

[paula777]

47. I'm trying to figure out exactly what that quote means ...

If the ignorant and narrow-minded can only be 'shaken' by the educated and open-minded, then why won't they bear discussion? If you can 'shake them' by giving them information or educating them, then what's with the 'they will not bear discussion' line?

[TahitiNut]

49. Perhaps a more careful reading is in order.

Consider: What's the antecedent for "they"? (Hint: It's not a person or persons.)
Consider: What's meant by "simple development"? (Hint: It's not likely to be transitive in nature.)

:shrug:

[gratuitous]

3. That would require actually remembering things

And the Republicans are masters of the current thought. For example Dick Cheney, when it suits his purpose, says in December 2004 that the Iraqi elections will spell the end of the insurgency. In May 2005, when the insurgency clearly hadn't ended, he adjusts his talking point, and now the insurgency is in its death throes. In September, he'll have something else to say. His fans, naturally, won't remember any of it, just take him at his word for what he's saying today.

Likewise, when it suited his purpose, George W. Bush was trumpeting the Amnesty International reports that detailed the human rights abuses of Saddam Hussein. Awful, horrible stuff. Now, when this same organization comes out with a report on American human rights abuses, Bush and the mighty Republican Wurlitzer are pumping out the propaganda that Amnesty is an untrustworthy organization. And they know their followers and supporters won't remember a thing about Bush's earlier support of Amnesty International as a human rights watchdog.

Feel sad and betrayed by Bush? Well, conservawhackos might feel sad. They might even feel betrayed. But they keep their eyes on Bush as their infallible leader, and so they know that their feelings of sadness and betrayal must be coming from some other source.

[zbdent]

5. What's comical is the number of times Amnesty International

is used on the White House official web site to justify the war in Iraq . . .

[LondonReign2]

10. I don't think so Bosshog

See, they know Bush is lying, and they are perfectly OK with it. To the Freeptards, Bush has to lie about this to get the "human rights assholes" off his back.

See, to their twisted minds, it is 1) Great to torture our enemies, 2) Great for Bush to lie and say we aren't torturing anyone, and 3) Perfectly great to throw a holy fit when someone tortures, beheads, or otherwise ignores the Geneva Conventions with one of our people.

That is how these morans' minds work.

[converted_democrat]

25. They don't like liars anymore than you do.............

I thought Democrats didn't stereotype or perpetuate lies. Guess I signed onto the wrong party.

[LondonReign2]

30. Sorry, I disagree

The Freepers *know* Bush lied, not only about the war, but about the torture as well...and you know what? They are perfectly fine with it!

It isn't a stereotype when they actually cheer on the war, despite knowing all the reasons Bush gave were lies.

It isn't perpetuating lies when it is true -- they know Bush lies, but in their twisted minds it is perfectly OK because he is helping bring about the American they want to see.

Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes because you are confusing Freepers with Conservatives. Freeptards aren't Conservatives, not by a long shot. There are damn few true Conservatives left.

[converted_democrat]

32. No, they don't know.........

And to assume that they do know is unwise. Never assume what people do or do not know, that's the biggest mistake you could make. They only know what they are told. Many don't have cable, or even get a newspaper. So tell me, how do they know?

[LondonReign2]

38. So you're telling me the Freepers don't have internet access?

Again, I think you are talking about someone different than I am.

I am talking about the morans at Freak Retardlic, the ones that agree that torture is "just a frat prank", the ones that are *happy* we're killing Arabs and aren't too particular about which ones. They know Bush lied and they like it that way.

I think you may be talking about...hell, I don't know, who *are* you talking about? Mr & Mrs Joe Average in rural Iowa? Hell, even if all they have is the MSM, if they are paying attention they should have been able to see through Bush's lies.

Edit: Woo hoo, 500 posts. And it only took me 2 years. :)

[converted_democrat]

41. No they don't...........

I grew up in an area you can't even get cable. And in church they are taught that the INTERNET is a tool of the devil, only used for porn, by the wicked. I'm not joking.....You guys don't know these people at all....You have to understand the lies they have been fed, and the crap they believe. The only reason that they hold these views is because they are never presented with anything different. Example- My mother was diagnosed with scelaraderma a really nasty disease. It's an auto immune disease, 5 other people in my town came up with other auto immune diseases in a short period of time. That same year 4 babies were born in the area with nasty birth defects. Instead of trying to figure out what the problem was or why this happened the local preacher literally said it was our fault. We weren't good enough Christians and God was punishing us. No one thought about the other factors like the environment or that all of the people lived close to a grain elevator that stores a vast amount of chemicals----Those things don't occur to these people. They think God did it because they were bad.
On top of that many of them are poor, and work 80 hours a week just to make sure their kids are fed. They don't have time to watch or read anything. Have you ever tried to make a living on the farm? It's hard.

[LondonReign2]

45. Dear Converted Democrat

As I suspected, we're talking at cross-purposes.

The Freepers, by definiton, have internet access -- they are members of the ONLINE community Free Republic. These are the people that I am talking about who heartily cheer on Bush even though the know he is lying. These are people that Bosshog is talking about when he says they really would feel betrayed if they believed Bush meant it when he said we weren't torturing people. These are the people who nod when Rush says it is no worse than a "frat prank".

I believe you are talking about Unaware America, those who haven't the time, inclination, or alternatives to find out what is going on. That is not what I or the OP (I beleive, don't want to put words in Bosshog's mouth) are referring to.

[converted_democrat]

48. That makes alot more sense!!!

I couldn't understand why you would condemn all republicans for the sins of the freeper. Hell, I hate freepers as much as the next guy. I was talking about the "oldstyle" conservatives. There is a big difference. The "oldstyle" conservatives are pissed!!! And they have the guns, and we need to befriend them!!! These "oldstyle" conservatives stand for exactly the opposite of what the "new" Conservative stands for.----Hence the reason they are pissed. -- We need to snatch these people up and help them get a voice.

[maxsolomon]

11. wishful thinking

most "conservatives", whatever that means today, think everything is going great here & abraod, and the only thing standing in the way of turning the clock back to a simpler, souful, american utopia is that you goddamn hippies won't STFU.

[TahitiNut]

22. People who call themselves "Tigers" aren't tigers.

People who call themselves "Bulls" aren't bulls. People who call themselves "Spurs" don't even wear them. Some people who call themselves "Sharks" don't even swim. And people who call themselves "conservatives" rarely conserve ... or even attempt to preserve the very human rights and civil liberties hard-won by those they pretend to admire. The depth of comprehension of the sum and substance of this administration by their fans and supporters is rarely more than that of a cheap paint job.

[Blue Belle]

39. Did anyone see that Jackass who was on Hardball...

last night?? Even Tweety jumped his shit. The guy from Amnesty International was fabulous and wouldn't take any of this guy's crap. The guy I'm referring to was from some Neocon/Security think tank... and he looked like someone Central Casting would send to a show like Smallville or Buffy the Vampire Slayer to play an evil warlock. I was screaming at the TV because this Jackass insinuated that the only reason why Amnesty International was publishing such an unflattering report against the Bush Administration is to gain a little free press. A little Free Press??? Can you believe this shit??

:wtf:

[GOPBasher]

50. good points! n/t