Dean has made 2 splashy headlines in as many weeks

[PretzelWarrior]

and created all kinds of controversy. I'm kind of glad he's in there. "Are you men or are you mice?"

Think about it. He is saying this kind of stuff in a climate where LIBERALS ARE REGULARLY CALLED TRAITORS, or that liberalism is a disease, etc. etc.

The GOP and their Group of 5 circle jerk media owners are having a field day trying to smear Dean and the other Democratic leadership because they see this prez is ALREADY losing major league traction. big time. and is starting to walk, talk, and act like a lame duck.

So 3 CHEERS for DEAN!

We love him in Oregon and Michigan and New York and Pennsylvania and California..HEEEEYYAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cha]

1. I bet you love Dean in Portland, Oregon!

I love him here in New York!

HEEEEEEEEYYYYYAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[PretzelWarrior]

18. oh yeah...the left coast will rise to the occasion

and help pull USA from the brink of despotism, fascism..and worst of all....a world where truth fails to be important.

TRUTH OUT!

[Cha]

31. I love the Left Coast!

Onward, PretzelWarrior!

[ooglymoogly]

2. dean is the elexor of life for the dems....n f m

[candy]

3. Sorry,but I think a more moderate voice would be more effective

for the DNC.

[salib]

4. Exactly what do you take issue with that Dean has said?

[candy]

6. I don't take issue with anything that he has said--

but a good chairman is a "behind the scenes" guy or gal---someone who knows what buttons to push and what issues need covering,and where,and when. Then he/she stands aside and let's someone else do public part of it..

Dean is a volatile,in-your-face type of person and I can't imagine him staying behind the scenes for long.

It's a matter of style with me,not substance.

[PretzelWarrior]

7. maybe we need to adjust our thinking

behind the scenes power broker is old school. Now you have to have someone in American's faces who isn't up for reelection by the fickle "I want my cheap stuff" constituents.

24 hour news cable TV environment needs a guy like him to rally the base, say stuff that's REALLY controversial, so the serious politicians trying to win elections can say "Oh I don't agree with his characterization of the issue. that's a little too far...but while we're on the subject here's what I think."

I can understand how he'll rub people the wrong way but I want him to keep it up. Rove has been loving this unopposed field of battle where the Dems are ridiculously stuck in a chivalrous past where you have some sense of "fair play".

Gloves are comin' off and Cinderella Man is gonna knock the big galumphing giant called corporate welfare on it's keister.

[PassingFair]

13. So who, exactly, IS supposed to speak for us?

Who is doing the "public part of it"?
Anyone? Hello.... Anyone?
With no one "on stage", I'll take voices off....

[SemperEadem]

49. are you mice or are you men?

A mouse would stay behind the scenes, as is its nature. A man steps out and articulates the truth. I'd rather have someone articulating the truth with a microphone than a mouse scurrying behind the wall to hide.

There IS no one who can do the job as effectively as Dean--that's why he's where he is doing what he's doing.

[warbly]

11. "I hate republicans"

I take issue with the DNC chair saying that. I know he meant the leadership, but when called on it he refused to acknowledge that he made a mistake in saying that. All the rhetoric in Vermont won't change the quote, "I hate Republicans" and we won't win any gop voters with flubs like that.
I like Howard Dean and supported him for DNC chair in the hope that he would address the issue of verifiable elections. I still support him but wish he would have just apoligized for the remark so it could be put into the past. Hopefully he'll learn.

Oh and I personally don't hate republicans. That would mean I'd hate much of my family. I just think they are misguided and spun up by the most effective propaganda machine in history. If Dean meant "I hate what the republicans are doing to the country" as he later explained he should be more careful and he should have admitted he misspoke instead of getting defensive. Then Biden and company would have the cover they needed and wouldn't have been out talking him down on the sunday news shows. That remark is causing a rift in the dem front at a time when we were finally unified for a change.

[PretzelWarrior]

14. energize the base and scare the old lady GOP voters

if they think a vote is a personal threat for them....they'll stay home and watch wheel of fortune.

I don't hate republicans either. but he knows there is pent up rage in this country and he wants to be the voice of it because continuing to bottle the rage and not let it out gradually will cause this country to warp completely out of shape.

we need strong leaders. not just talking heads like Franken--although he was a crucial step for us. we need someone right now who can show the way.

Part of power is PERCEPTION of POWER. Dean must project and we must all project this. YOU FUCKING NINNIES, there are still 49% of us that could easily become 51% of us voting you guys out of house and home so yoe better pay attention to us!

Keep it going Dean. I"M NOT TAKING BUSH"S SHIT ANY MORE. GOT IT?

HE CAN ROT IN HELL WITH ALL OF THE EVIL THIS MODERN AGE HAS WROUGHT

now I feel better.

[Niche]

21. Ohhh pe-lease! The fucking reps say whatever-whenever they

want about liberals/Dems.... I've heard more horrible ramblings and insults from the right than I can stand....

[warbly]

23. Yeah the pundits do

but the chairman of the comittee needs to speak a bit more carefully. I don't wanna get in a big flame war here. I support Howard, just think he needs to be careful with generalized insults. He can say whatever he wants about the Bushies, in my opinion no insult could be too direct, but when he generalizes about 50% of the citizens I think he's off base.
How do you think that 'most republicans never made an honest living in their lives'(paraphrase) remark plays with all those blue collar $10.00 an hour gop voters?
Flame on.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[warbly]

40. is this what passes for debate here?

pathetic.

[PretzelWarrior]

41. of course not. this guys the exception as you can see.

dude probably is drunk after a harsh breakup. I hope you're sincere. ONe can make room for your opinion that Dean is too over the top. Understood. Just feel it's time for a change in strategy for Dems as a whole.

[stickdog]

43. The context was Republicans who are setting voting policies and the

speech was to a group of progressive activists.

Can I ask you a simple question? Have Repukes been helped or hurt by their nonstop and highly unfair and completely insulting vilification of liberals over the last 20 years?

[NYCGirl]

48. He didn't say "most republicans", he said, "lots of republicans". There is

a very big diference. If you're going to disagree with what Dean said, at least get the quote right.

[Me.]

32. I Saw The Interview He Did With Leslie

and when Dean was chastised for making the generalization and told he should be more precise with his language Dean agreed and then clarified that he meant the leadership. I liked that he could, on camera, admit that and gave him points for it. Then he went on to do a smackdown on Wolf when he tried to twist and reframe what Dean was saying.

And,btw, Welcome!

[warbly]

37. rewatched the blitzer interview

and Howard did in fact admit that he needs to be more precise with his language. That really is all I'm asking from him here, and to get a paper trail on every touchscreen vote machine in the country:)
anyway, video is here if anyone wants to see it:
http://www.dembloggers.com/story/2005/6/3/153632/2932

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stickdog]

42. When did Dean say, "I hate Republicans"?

Are you an AP reporter or something?

[paulk]

50. final DNC debate, Feb 12th

"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for, but I admire their discipline and their organization,"

-Howard Dean

[stickdog]

53. My God, no wonder he won hands down. (nt)

[PretzelWarrior]

5. I disagree. Mcauliffe got us ...what?

2 failed presidential elections. 1 failed midterm. We don't need diplomatic. do American people respond to diplomatic? HELL NO!

It is time to punch someone in the mouth. spit at their face and punch them again. tell them we are not into the whole fighting thing for fighting sake or to bully others but when someone steps on our honor, we will take them to the mat.

these people are traitorous. you will know them by their deeds. they are robbing the exchequer. they are draining blood from our young people. they are turning their back on the poor and uneducated underclass while passing favors amongst the elite and megarich while they laugh into their sleeves and say "democracy".

taken to the logical conclusion these people are crooks and traitors, then we are accessories to the crime if we don't call them on it and gang tackle them with the crown jewels before they take their flight.

Howard Dean is striking back. Join him, won't you?

[JDPriestly]

9. Dean - our Churchill - He will not appease.

There is a time for everything. Dean would not be the right man to deal with a conciliatory fair-playing Republican Party, the party of Rockefeller or Eisenhower for example. But he is perfect for dealing with the Bush Republicans and even the McCain Republicans (who appear conciliatory compared to the Bushies, but who are really quite confrontational and unscrupulous) of today.

Dean is the man of the hour. If the Republicans don't like him, good for him. In these extraordinarily partisan times, it shows he is doing something right. Dean is sort of the Churchill of the Democratic Party -- anti-appeasement at the right time.

[Jim Sagle]

35. Chickenshit bullshit. Dean RRRRAWWWKSSSS!!!!

[JNelson6563]

44. Yeah, cause that has worked so far

not.

[XemaSab]

59. Like who?

Like Joe Lieberman?

[quaker bill]

62. Moderate voices were quite "effective" in 2004.

I was great winning an election..... Oops, we lost didn't we?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

8. Dean has ZERO ties to corporate interests...he is truly a man of the

people.


He is a politician, but he is not beholden to any special interests.

The press is going to be compelled to cover him precisely because of the energy and excitement he brings to the DNC.



Keep speaking the truth, Howard! MKJ

:applause: :woohoo:

[Elidor]

10. I'm glad he's out there saying the things the rest of them don't dare to

He's effective. The media whores have no idea how craven they appear.

[warbly]

12. As to the climate

where liberals are called traitors, you make a good point, but have you heard the RNC head saying such things. Diplomacy...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

15. ???? Sorry, but RNC reps have said many more things

I will do a little searching and give you more concrete examples.


Let me just say, based on the RNC and RNC based attacks, this is mild in comparison.

MKJ

More to come.

[Pithy Cherub]

17. Diplomacy is backed up by force.

Machiavelli to Von Clausewitz to Madeleine Albright agree on that point. Governor Dean is the force! Interesting thing about power - not to use it means to lose it through a siphoning off to others or abdication of one's power. Dean is in the right place at the right time.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

22. I put my response further down

warbly, please check this out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1834134&mesg_id=1834226&page=

MKJ

[ginnyinWI]

16. I think he's doing it on purpose, playing the media

It gets the DNC visibility and also helps convince people that Dems are both fun and tough. Helps dispel the stereotypes.

I also think Biden and people like him are in on the joke.
Their part in the process is to represent the moderating force--the ones who reassure people that Dems aren't TOO crazy. It's all done for the media, so people shouldn't trash Biden.

I've seen Biden mad for real plenty of times on Cspan. He wasn't angry on Sunday.

[bklyncowgirl]

46. I think Dean does do it deliberately.

It's a pattern of his.

He throws a verbal grenade that get's people fighting about the meaning of what he said, whether he was right and of course his own sanity. Dean then clarifies what he meant which brings more attention to the issue he wanted to bring up in the first place. In the end, it usually ends up that he was right and he gets an idea that was totally out of bounds politically into the debate.

Right now the issue is the idea that the Republican leadership is out of touch with the lives of ordinary Americans. This is one of the big no nos of American politics--we're talking the class warfare thing here--and he's taking fire from all sides because, let's face it--some of the Democratic leadership is also out of touch with the lives of working people too and need to be reminded of what it is like to work for a living.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

19. Here you go...

RNC: Democrats Encourage Voter Fraud
http://www.newshounds.us/2004/10/28/rnc_democrats_encourage_voter_fraud.php

Republicans Warn of Democrats' Election-Day Shenanigans
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200411%5CPOL20041102a.html

AFTER PRESIDENT BUSH ANNOUNCES SOCIAL SECURITY PROPOSAL; PELOSI AND DEMOCRATS STILL OFFER NOTHING

http://www.rnc.org/RNCResearch/read.aspx?ID=5413


This is almost too easy...

Anyway, Give 'em hell, Howard!!!! MKJ

[PretzelWarrior]

24. that bastard child, Ed Gillespie accuses dems of "hate speech"

at every turn. he has watered the term down so that anything said critical of the president or his policies amounts to "political hate speech"

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20040126.html

That is equivalent to people cavalierly tossing around that something is "like the Holocaust" or "like Hitler". Countless thousands in this country have been victimized by legitimate truly awful hate speech.

By their very words, these people show they have no care for real working Americans or that words are supposed to convey IDEAS...not subtle gut-level emotion based responses.


They perversely answer to animal instinct of Americans. And yes...they are the enemy

[warbly]

25. we disagree

no bigee. I don't see how any of that amounts to an 'I hate democrats' soundbite from the RNC chair.
peace.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

27. I agree that we disagree and I'm glad there's no hard feelings

However, I have to say...when did Dr. Dean say "I hate Republicans"

He has pointed out the privileged background of many of the GOP leadership, and, more importantly, how their policies are counter to the values of working class Americans.

The word "hate" has no place in the national dialog and I haven't seen any statements in which the DNC chair has used that word.

Welcome to DU, warbly! MKJ

[PretzelWarrior]

28. classy reply. we gotta stay together, mon!

don't let them get you down. just keep on rockin' in a free world.

[warbly]

30. Don't get me wrong

I support Howard and think he's a vast improvement over what's his cauliffe, I just think he needs to avoid alienating gop moderates if we are to win national elections.
"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for, but I admire their discipline and their organization," the failed presidential hopeful told the crowd at the Roosevelt Hotel, where he and six other candidates spoke at the final DNC forum before the Feb. 12 vote for chairman.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/276020p-236422c.html
(no, i don't generally read the daily news, just the first link that popped up on yahoo)
---
I guess the quote was 'the' republicans, which softens it a little i guess. Unfortunately only the first four words of this mostly sensible quote are getting play from the likes of wolf blitzer and company. My bad for omitting the "the" from the quote.

[paulk]

51. Dean did actually say that

see post #50

[elshiva]

20. Yep, that's HoHo...

[Mythsaje]

26. I can see both sides of this

but...one of the first things I posted to DU involved the fact that I saw the Democrats as operating mostly defensively, never taking the initiative and hitting the Reapers where it hurts.

I'm starting to see it now and I love it.

Maybe loud and in their face is what the people need to hear and see. Hell, listening to Randi today I was whooping it up in my car.

We didn't declare war, they did. But if our leaders fold at the first sign of pressure, they'll win without us ever taking a shot.

I may be a liberal, but I'm not a pacifist. If someone's trying to take you down, that's when you raise your fists and start fighting back.

Let 'em have it, Dean!

[knight_of_the_star]

38. Huzzah!

We did not seek this war, but if they do wish to make war on the American people, we should have no reservation or fear to fight unto the bitter end and beyond!

[bahrbearian]

29. YeeeHaaawwwww !

[Douglas Carpenter]

36. MSNBC ATTACKS DEAN AGAIN-LET' RESPOND ASAP!!

:bounce:

LET'S RESPOND ASAP!!at: [e-mail]

If MSNBC would get as interested in the Downing Street Memo as it is interested in attacking Dean we would be getting somewhere:

Here is the link:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8122027/

________________________________

And here are the actual facts posted here on DU Archives(2 Jun 05) posted by stampy52:

A quick look at actual FEC reports shows that Dean has raised more money in an off year than any DNC Chair in history.
First Quarter of 2005 - $16.7 million
Q1/2004 - $28.7 million
Q1/2003 - $8.7 million
Q1/2002 - $11.8

And Dean is on pace to break the midyear fundraising of $23.7 in the first six months of 2001.

_________________________________

So please write:

[e-mail]

:kick:

[Larkspur]

47. Here's what I sent MSNBC

Shame on Andrea Mitchell for regurgitating Republican propaganda about Howard Dean's comment about Republicans -- "A lot of them never made an honest living in their lives." Like the Republican propagandists, she took Mr. Dean's comment out of context. Everyone who attended or listened to Mr. Dean's speech at the progressive conference, Take Back America, knew that Howard Dean was referring to Republican lawmakers, not Republican voters. It is unprofessional of Andrea Mitchell, MSNBC, and other Media outlets for regurgitating Republican talking points as facts. Shame on you all!

Also, if Andrea Mitchell was a true professional correspondent, she would have done some homework and checked the actual FEC reports that show that Howard Dean has raised more money in a off-national-election-year than ANY DNC Chair in DNC history.
First Quarter of 2005 - $16.7 million -- non-national office election year
Q1/2004 - $28.7 million -- Presidential & Congressional election year
Q1/2003 - $ 8.7 million -- non-national office election year
Q1/2002 - $11.8 million -- Congressional election year

Howard Dean is on pace to break the midyear fundraising record of $23.7 million in the first six months of 2001. Why didn't Andrea Mitchell report that? Is it because it's easier to regurgitate the Republican Talking Points Memo she received from the RNC than to actually do the research expected of professional reporters?

[EST]

39. The group-think, fascist, sleazoids will talk, lie, mis-quote,

and all that crap game that passes for honest interaction. They will never tell the truth, even when telling the truth might cause more political damage (If that were possible.)
Any attention is good. If anybody can be said to stand his ground and leave no doubt as to his clarity of position and his unwillingness to suck up and shut up any better, let him stand up and do so or stand aside.
He will not piss off the base beyond redemption and is drawing an enormous if somewhat grudging admiration. Consider the number of interviews of border line wingnuts who indicated their dissatisfaction with il Douche but voted for him, anyway. Their answers to the "why" question were astonishingly universal: They didn't vote for Kerry because (1) they didn't think a democrat could protect them and (2) even after they tried to listen to JFK they still had no idea what he stood for. They may be blamed for all sorts of things-maybe they're just too dumb. Maybe they're too lazy to think. Maybe they really are the problem, but they aren't going to vote differently just because you tell them that. The only way to succeed is to appeal to their problem the way they see it- emotionally, logically, whatever.

Howard Dean is doing a beautiful job and is accomplishing things no one else seemed able to.

HOWARD DEAN SPEAKS FOR ME!

[CWebster]

45. Meanwhile Bill & Hillary cozy up

and actually sabotage efforts to put the brakes on this runaway train.

[Broken Acorn]

52. Dean: You're either for him or against him...

I'm for him and encourage him to keep kicking some ass in the Dem's name!

[Dr Fate]

54. Just think if he had mentioned "The Memo" on those shows.

Oh well, at least Kennedy "released" a statement about it on a website that only people who already know about it read.

[PretzelWarrior]

55. well, what do you think WOULD have happened if he

mentioned it? They'd make fun of him...laugh him off and go to the next question.

[Dr Fate]

56. So Dean cant handle debate then?

If true, then who's fault is that???

Please- *I* can debate the importance of the memo with anyone- surely Dean can too.

If he had brought it up, it would have been all over the media.

"The media will be mean to us if we tell the truth about Bush" is no longer an acceptable excuse for refusing to speak up.

[PretzelWarrior]

57. well, I'm sure he wanted to focus his appearance on a topic or two

and from all I'm seeing in today's news links the DSM ISSS--I repeat--IS starting to be all over the media.

[Dr Fate]

58. Fine- but next time stick to one excuse.

I like Dean, but let's keep it real.

Either say "there are more important issues" or "but the media will be mean to him"- but dont offer up a new excuse when I shoot down the 1st.

And you are actually factually incorrect as well- since Tim Russert asked specific questions about Iraq deception. The issue was on the table.

Anyway, this is not really all over the media at all- it just seems that way here at DU.

[PretzelWarrior]

61. perhaps you've got a point that he should have brought it up...

but both of my reasons are related. if he took the bait and focused on that kind of issue that at this point is not central to what his message is....then he'd get marginalized in their responses to him and all that would do is take away from his message he prepared to send out to the people around the country.

[Andromeda]

60. Dean is getting a lot of attention...

because he's not afraid to speak out and tell it like it really is.

I think all the corporate media moguls and their minions are going to wear thin on the public because the voters may be in a long slumber but they're not stupid. Sometime you have to thump people on the head a few times before they get the message and that's what Dean is doing.

Glad you love him in Oregon --- that's my birthplace. GO DEAN!!!