Doesn't Rove's crime fit ESPIONAGE more than treason?

[FormerRepublican]

Treason is really tightly defined, and almost no one has ever been convicted of treason in the United States.

However, Espionage is a relatively common crime and seems to fit. Also, a large number of people have been successfully prosecuted for just that.

A definition of espionage:

"the practice of obtaining secrets (spying) from rivals or enemies for military, political, or economic advantage. It is usually thought of as part of an organized effort (i.e., governmental or corporate)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage

My read is that Rove committed espionage by working FOR the Bush Administration and AGAINST the United States. Perhaps the closest example of this is industrial espionage. An example of a similar scenario would be if someone working for Bill Gates didn't like the nasty things the government was saying about Bill, so obtained and disclosed secret information about a CIA agent to the press (and thus, to foreign entities) to discredit the government, causing damage to US intelligence interests. Clearly espionage. If he acted on his own, then he was spying to obtain secret information to use to the benefit of specific individuals (not the government). If he acted in concert with others, then it was a conspiracy to commit espionage against the United States. The fact that they are government officials is irrelevant. For example, a US Ambassador could be charged with espionage. Again, since the United States was damaged by his actions, it really doesn't matter who he was working for, and it fits with the definition of espionage.

What do you think?

[Dora]

1. Verrry interesting idea.

It holds water.

[shraby]

2. There is a 1917 Espionage Act

that should cover it nicely...along with conspiracy charges under RICO

[TechBear_Seattle]

6. Have you ever *read* the Espionage Act of 1917?

Very, very scarey, and largely still intact under federal law.

The first conviction under the act -- which lead to the famous "fire in a crowded theater" restriction on free speech -- was Charles Schenck. He was convicted to six months in federal prison for "willfully insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny or refusal of duty in the military forces." His deed was to distribute flyers speaking against the military draft, first enacted in the United States as a result of World War I. That particular provision remains in force as Title 18, United States Code, section 2388.

As for current federal law regarding treason and sedition, I refer you to 18 USC sections 2381 - 2390, inclusive:

http://www.washingtonwatchdog.org/documents/usc/ttl18/ptI/ch115/index.html

Edit: Looking at the law and arguing -- as the Republicans have for several years -- that we are in a state of war, Congressional declarations be damned, it would appear that Rove violated 18 USC 2388, and very likely Cheney, Bush and others have engaged in conspiracy:

"(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or
conveys false reports or false statements with intent to interfere
with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of
the United States or to promote the success of its enemies... Shall
be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years,
or both.
(b) If two or more persons conspire to violate subsection (a) of
this section and one or more such persons do any act to effect the
object of the conspiracy, each of the parties to such conspiracy
shall be punished as provided in said subsection (a).
(c) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has
reasonable grounds to believe or suspect, has committed, or is
about to commit, an offense under this section, shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

Treason or not, Rove et al. certainly seem to have engaged in subversive activity during a time of war, as defined by federal law.

[Old and In the Way]

3. If you or I, as US citizens, had publicly outed Valerie Plame

as a CIA NOC.....wouldn't we be guilty of treason? Seems to me espionage is tied to your nationality. If you a foreign citizen and are passing US secrets to a foreign government, you'd be quilty of espionage. If you did it as a US citizen, it's treasonable espionage.

Industrial epionage would be a civil issue and not pertinent to this defintion, I think.

[FormerRepublican]

4. Actually, anyone who works against the US Government can be...

...charged with espionage. I agree that what Rove did is Treason - but that's hard to prove in court. Espionage is much easier to prove AND CARRIES THE SAME PENALTY!

So, it would make more sense to prosecute for espionage than treason because you can get a conviction (i.e. jail or death).

Ideally, they could charge him with both and whatever sticks, sticks.

Bush can try to pardon that, but I don't think it would fly.

[Old and In the Way]

5. Whatever it takes.

As long as he's charged with a crime. Part of his sentencing must be that ne cannot have any communication with this administration. That'd freak out junior.