We told you so...The campaign against BIRTH CONTROL begins

[Nikki Stone 1]

A message from NARAL--in case you haven't gotten it yet.

It's official: Americans can no longer take prescription birth control for granted. Yesterday, Monday, July 25, anti-choice representatives in the U.S. House made it clear that they support pharmacies that refuse to fill birth-control prescriptions - and that women have no right to birth control.

The radical right's campaign to stop birth control
The House Small Business Committee held a hearing on whether pharmacies should be allowed to refuse to fill women's prescriptions. Anti-choice Rep. Steve King (R-IA) told a witness, who had been denied birth control and emergency contraception by her pharmacist, that she had no "right" to her prescriptions - she only believed she did. Anti-choice Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO) told a witness whose prescription had also been rejected by a hostile pharmacist, that her "minor inconvenience" - that is, risking an unintended pregnancy - was nothing compared to the "conscience" of a pharmacist.

The right's anti-birth control campaign doesn't stop in Washington, DC. Across the country, the radical right has engaged pharmacies in its campaign to block women's access to birth control. Women like Julee Lacey, a 32-year-old married mother of two and first-grade teacher from Texas, are being turned away by vigilante pharmacists who think it's their job to dispense morals instead of medicine.

Now, as many as 20 states officially protect pharmacists like Karen Brauer, president of Pharmacists for Life, who says she'd lecture women customers to get off the pill. Other states are pursuing an even more aggressive strategy. Just last month Wisconsin passed a bill to block state universities from filling birth control prescriptions.

[wli]

1. Who'd have thought...

... 1984 and the Handmaid's Tale could come true simultaneously.

[kitkat65]

77. No effing kidding...

That book has been in my mind constantly lately given the radical right wing agenda regarding women's rights. Top that off with the B*** administration's total eff-up on securing nuclear sites and you get the perfect recipe for that kind of society.

I wonder if Margeret Atwood looks at the current state of America and gets the shivers.

[Pachamama]

144. I keep wondering what Atwood's next book due in Jan 06 "The Tent" is going

to be about....I've pre-ordered it...

Her book "A Handmaiden's Tale" is chilling...If any of the DUers have never read it, I highly reccomend it. I also highly recommend the movie with Robert Duvall, Faye Dunaway, Aidan Quinn, Natasha Richardson, Elizabeth McGovern, Victoria Tennant (great cast). The beginning of the movie shows Kate (later known as Offred) trying to cross the border (into Canada) from the Republic of Gilead (former United States). The Border guards w/ spotlights and machine guns shoot and kill her husband and cart Kate off to a detentio camp. When its determined that she has "working ovaries", she is designated into a "handmaiden". She and the other Handmaiden's uterus and ovaries belong to the state and their duty is to be screwed by the men into whose keep they are "assigned" (while the wifes hold these women's hands down) and then once they are pregnant and give birth have to give the child over to the barren wifes. (Most Women can't have children anymore due to Nuclear/chemical toxins that have caused sterility). Birth Control is banned and punishable by death. Copulation as a handmaiden with anyone else other than the "assigned impregnator" is punishable by death.

The gov't and leaders of the "Republic of Gilead (former USA) are a combination of military leaders influenced by Extreme Christian Fundies. "Praised Be" "Blessed be the Fruit" etc. are the phrases that the women have to constantly utter publicly and to eachother.

The book and movie gave me chills when I first read and saw the movie in 1990 (I think it was then?). I'm sure if I saw it again, it would freak me out because of the state of affairs and direction this country is going.

Note: Anyone who read the book knows what wasn't covered much in the movie and that is how the Republic of Gilead came to being....here's a hint - it started with the right wing and religious fundamentalists declaring moral authority and banning feminist movements, hollywood movies etc., birth control and abortions. Then there nuclear/chemical warfare disaster and a military coup. The symbol of the Republic of Gilead was a pyramid with an eye.

[Mad_Dem_X]

157. Scary, scary book

I've been telling every woman I know to read that book.

[Nikki Stone 1]

174. What is it about?

?

[Pachamama]

198. Here's a summary of what "A Handmaid's Tale" is about:

From a review on Amazon.com I agree with and describes it perfectly:

THE HANDMAID'S TALE is a frightening look at a not too distant future where sterility is the norm, and fertile woman are treated as cattle, to produce children for the upper class who cannot have any. The narrator Offred, as she is called in her new life, is the Handmaid for a top Commander in the new government. Once a month she is tested by a gynecologist to ensure that she is healthy, and then is taken to the Commander and his wife in the hopes of becoming pregnant.

Offred, along with the other handmaid's, are not allowed to look directly at anyone else. They all wear the same outfits; red long dresses and headgear that cover their bodies. They live together, spend most of their time together, and are taken care of, in the hopes that they will produce children for this barren society. In this society, most women are not allowed to read, and are treated as if they have no minds. The government dictates their role in society. If they disobey, they are punished severely.

Offred's memories often go back to a time when she was happily married to Luke, and with their daughter they were looking forward to a long and happy life together. Things changed when a military group took over the government, and immediately their lives as they knew it were over. Women lost all rights to ownership; bank accounts were frozen, land was taken away; fertile women were taken away from their husbands and families. A handful of older women were made into `Aunts', and their duties were to instruct and guide the handmaids, reminding them of their role on this earth, which is to procreate.

I have to say that my feelings during this book were of shock. In some sense, what has happened in this book has already happened in other parts of the world and can happen again. The control over women is very much like that of the women in Afghanistan. The control over religious choice brings to mind Nazi Germany, as one of the issues in the Handmaid's Tale is the elimination of anyone that refuses to be as one with the new government - religious persecution is justified and encouraged.

The Handmaid's Tale is a horrifying story of a government fully in control of each person's life and totally out of control. The book was so riveting that it took me only one day to read. I highly recommend this novel.

[Nikki Stone 1]

203. Yikes! The fact that it seems possible now is just plain scary

I think every American woman should read this.

[Pachamama]

209. Every American Man too! Men who care about equality & the happiness of

their Mothers, Sisters and Daughters and their freedoms too!

:patriot:

[kestrel91316]

86. Time for everybody to read and take cues from:

The Gate to Women's Country by Sherri Tepper

Don't breed violent people (or religious fundies). Time to start withholding favors from our enemies.

[Tesha]

169. Anti-fundamentalism is a theme runing through much of Tepper's work.

She's definitely in favor of reality-based societies over societies
dominated by wacky religions.

Tesha

[Wizard777]

176. I support the first amendment.

In the aspect that Freedom from Government provides for freedom of religion. That freedom from religion preserves Individual freedom of religion. The pharmacist's have a right to practice their religion. A corporate shell cannot be used as place to separate people from both Church and State. The Company business plan cannot be used as a crow bar to pry away from individuals beliefs(creeds) that they hold to be sacred.
The company has a Constitutional responsibility to both the individual in their employ and the customer. They must manage to meet the needs of both. If they have a pharmacist on duty that cannot fill any prescription because of their religious beliefs and practices. Then they must also have a pharmacists on duty to meet the needs of the customer.

[Khaotic]

184. You're Fired!

Bullshit Mister Handman!

What if a soldier on the frontline decides to take the 10 commandments seriously and that 'thou shalt not kill' means NO killing?

The deal is, if that's the way a person feels then don't be a soldier!!!!!

If you KNOW that despensing birth control is a problem then find another profession, or better yet don't go down that road to begin with.

Get it?!!!!

It's not to hard to figure out.

My thoughts ... if your a pharmacist and you don't fill a perscription then you are fired!

See ya, good bye!



Like this asshole says, "YOU'RE FIRED!"

No arguement. No debate. You're gone. You didn't follow directions. You're not a team player. You don't play well with others.

Go the fuck home and spank your monkey, you don't have a job here anymore.



Welcome to the soup line asshole. That's my sentiment to those pharmacists that try to inflict their "morality" on people.



That's what K-Mart did the idiot that wouldn't despense at their facility.

Thumbs up to K-Mart. They have my business now.

I'll be getting my meds there.

Don't you see the problem?????

What if a little Wal-Mart associate decides that there's a problem with me buying Grand Theft Auto or KY Jelly?

Or what if that Wal-Mart associate is convinced that no one should be allowed to purchase an electrical massage unit because it could be used for erousal purposes?

My thoughts ...

[Tesha]

199. Unfortunately, your government no longer does.

> I support the first amendment.

Unfortunately, your government no longer does. :(

Tesha

[annabanana]

2. yup.. no birth control, no abortions...

get yer damn ass back in the house and give me my babies

[Kilroy003]

20. Maybe it's time to open an orphanage?

It's either that or an old folks home.

No real money in anything else pretty soon.

[Catherine Vincent]

36. That's funny but it's really sad.

[catzies]

78. Bush's line from the debates about 'maternity group homes' scared me

"...continue to fund and promote maternity group homes.."

All I could say was, :wtf:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/13/debate.transcript/

[blondeatlast]

80. That line sent shivers, literally, up my spine. I had to ask my hubby

what year it was.

:scared:

[Nikki Stone 1]

205. What is a "maternity group home"?

And is it run by private organizations?

[ltfranklin]

97. Well, you're not entirely correct.

They'll be money to be made in Prison's as well.

[Kilroy003]

185. Oh yeah,

I always forget about the prisons.

Silly me...

[mzteris]

3. BULL!

What the kind of cr*p is that???????

SOME women take BC for reasons OTHER than birth control you know....

I wonder if these same holier-than-thou jerks refuse to fill Viagra?

No way. I don't think this can pass. Even 'pub women have to see the insanity in this.

[Zenlitened]

22. "Even 'pub women have to see the insanity in this."

You would think so, but I fear that's not the case.

These are scary, scary, fucked-up people in the GOP, as evidenced by this story about Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney's stance against emergency contraception and abortion:

...Yesterday, some of the Women for Romney volunteers were furious with Romney's declaration that he is ''prolife" and that he disapproved of the landmark 1973 Supreme Court ruling that made abortion legal nationwide. He announced his stance Monday as he vetoed a bill that would expand access to emergency contraception.

''I'm very disappointed," said Nancy Luther, a Republican state committeewoman from Topsfield and a member of Republican Majority for Choice, which endorsed Romney in 2002. ''He's put his political future above the promises he made to Massachusetts."

(snip)

Even Luther, dismayed by his veto, said she would support a Romney reelection. ''Oh, I'd vote for him, because I'm a Republican and I'm a party activist," she said.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/07/27/healey_prochoice_gop_women_distance_selves_on_abortion_issue/

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[gkhouston]

37. my mom has a phrase for this sort of mindset...

"would eat a mile of that shit just to see where it comes from"

[tammywammy]

41. No, they don't see the insanity

Some believe that using birth control is a form of abortion, because if on the slight chance the egg is fertilized, the BC prevent implantation. And thus, life begins as conception, so at any point that you interfere with it, it's an abortion (not including the fact that naturally not all eggs implant).

They don't care about the many women that need BC for horrible horrible periods.

AND they'd raise arms about a pharmacist not filling Viagra because it's for ED, a physical problem. To them there's no reason a woman would need BC other than to sleep around. If they admit the fact that some women do need BC for reasons other than birth control, they're willing to sacrifice them for their cause to remove all BC.

[Fritz67]

100. I wish these assholes...

...would realize that their right to practice their religion ends when it starts interfering with my right to not practice their religion.

[adolfo]

139. I heard...

drinking warm beer can induce an abortion. I hope they don't ban beer.

[tammywammy]

143. Well, I'm sure

there's plenty of people that would like to do that as well. Thankfully history's shown that banning beer wouldn't work.

[halobeam]

202. Well if history proves it doesn't work, then

we are up the creek, cuz that is this admin. motto. Failed, repeat, fail again.

[King Cozumel]

164. Pennyroyal...

is another option. It's a natural herb, and even exhists in in many dog/cat flea shampoos. Just the smell of it can be enough to induce an abortion. In ancient India (and other areas I believe), they used it after intercourse as a contraceptive. This is thousands of years before today's condoms and BCP. However, pro-longed use of pennyroyal can cause other problems (then again, I'm willing to bet prolonged use of BCP can cause some problems too). Just an alternative I thought I'd list...

[iconoclastic cat]

4. Link?

[Wickerman]

5. need more workers

to feed the machine

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. True enough

[liberalitch]

15. Workers?.... don't you mean cannon fodder?

[ironman202]

23. same thing; drones

[chelsea0011]

6. Refuse to fill a prescription...lose your license in that state

Pharmacists made their choice and should abide by the laws of the states. Anti-choice advocates love the feds to get involved when it only matters to them.

[napi21]

7. The States may protect pharmacists, but the stores will suffer.

I don't have to take any BS's anymore, but I sure can tell you, if I got a refusal at any pharmacy, even ONCE, I'd find another pharmacy! There sure are a lot of them around to choose from, and the one refusing would just loose my business...for prescriptions AND everything else they sell!

I doubt you're going to see any plans to ban BC meds going anywhere! Even the people who vehimently oppose abortion almost all take some kind of BC med. Sure, there are a few hardheads that still believe they're wrong, but they REALLY are in the minority! Even with Roman Catholics, they've been taken for years.

[msongs]

25. "oh those nazis, they will never take over germany..."

don't be so sure the stealth terrorists will take over one small step at a time and then it will be too late to stop them without a war.

Msongs
www.msongs.com

[FreedomAngel82]

27. You can also get your medicine through the mail

I do that and it's A LOT cheaper. My mom does that too with her medicine.

[kestrel91316]

87. Bush is trying to end THAT, too

[kskold]

47. and if there's only one pharmacy in town?

Taking your business to another pharmacy is only an option if you live somewhere that has more than one. Ordering by mail or internet is only an option if you *know* it's an option. And if you've always gone to the local pharmacy...

In how many places are abortions virtually impossible to get because the "moral climate" is so toxic there's no doctor willing to perform them?

Once pharmacists get away with refusing to fill BC prescriptions, anti's can start picketing, protesting, and harassing the ones who will fill them. How many businesses can afford to take a stand against a full-scale boycott?

"It can never happen!" is a dangerous response to this.

Kristen,
not new, just quiet

[napi21]

59. I don't ever say NEVER, but I really do believe it's very unlikely.

If there's only one pharmacy in town, then the internet IS the only other option. I suspect the Dr. who wrote the script would be able to help you.

The reason I believe BC's will never become illegal is becaue way too many people take them! You really aren't talking about dems and pubs here, you're talking the entire country!

Remember the instant action Congress took when everybody screamed about the no call list needing a law to authorize it? The damn thing was talked about, voted on, sent to the Pres. and signed, and all within 48 hours!

I suspect that's the kind of response you'd get if the American people heard that Congress was going to outlaw BC pills.

[Eloriel]

83. Youa re not getting it

You can NOT just assume you will continue to have OTHER OPTIONS. You can't. This new assault is something they now feel confident in pressing foward on (it was always in the background prior to this and there were lots and lots of DUers who didn't believe THAT, either). There was a time when they KNEW they couldn't get away with talking like that, now they know the way is clear.

IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME, now, unless some VERY serious rollbacks of these fascists doesn't happen.

DO YOU GET IT NOW????????

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Self Delete

[LaPera]

194. I still like your message banner you left!

Your correct!

[roseBudd]

67. Don't wait for a refusal boycott any store taht is willing to hire such

pharmacists whether there are currently any on staff. I am boycotting WalMart and have informed them of why.

[bpeale]

190. No sex for you!

no birth control. no sex. face it. women can go a lot longer without sex than men can! as long as i control my own body, i refuse! if i can't control whether i get pregnant or not, i can certainly decide if i will have sex with you!

[Misunderestimator]

200. I've never taken BC, but now I'll ask ahead of time before I buy

anything. If the pharmacy won't dispense birth control medication then they won't get my money for anything else.

[madfloridian]

8. It was an email alert....here is the link for action.

Having to find a proper link.

[NNguyenMD]

9. Prochoice Pharmacist should refuse dispensing medication upon questioning

if customers go a conservative churches.

What goes around comes around. If you can discriminate based on my lifestyle, we can discriminate based on yours. In fact the sight of a crucifix should be enough for pharmacists to refuse medications to fundies based on moral judgement.

No more anti-biotics, vitamins, Anti-depressants, lipitor and blood pressure meds for fundies.

[liberalitch]

18. If they're depressed.... let 'em pray their way out of it....

Oh, yea..... 70% of depression is biological
Damned science!

[Ian David]

I'm tempted to go to pharmacy school just so I can do that

Here's another idea:

Get a job at The Registry of Motor Vehicles and refuse to give drivers licenses to Jews because "they drive on The Sabbath."

Or, if you're Jewish, refuse to give licenses to Christians for similar reasons.

Or get a job in a restaurant and refuse to sell shellfish.

I would love to have a job crappy enough to try that just to make a point and get in the newspapers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

127. Does this mean I can refuse

to teach problem kids?

[Ian David]

152. You can refuse to teach Republicans

You have a moral objection to preparing them to enter the workplace, where they will earn money to donate to objectionable causes.

[kahleefornia]

69. God should cure them anyway

If they were really good Christians, they wouldn't get sick. So the pharmacist shouldn't waste valuable time.

I so want to become a pharmacist now, just to do this.

[Alcibiades]

10. They've been at this for some time

Next, the pro-lifers will target those pharmacists who do fill every prescription.

What about Viagra? "I'm sorry, Mr. Jones, but there's no way I can, in good conscience, let you go near your wife after you've taken one of those."

Pharmacists shouldn't have the right to refuse to dispense drugs--any drugs. Where will they draw the line? There are a gadzillion drugs that can hurt a fetus.

This is tragic, but also an opportunity to reach out to moderate women who voted Republican in the last election.

[LissaM]

187. LoL!

You think they'd honestly outlaw a MAN'S sexual freedom???????? Keep in mind this is the same administration that has taxpayers paying for viagra for those who can't afford it... But not the birth control.

This is disgusting and I'm moving to Amsterdam.

[liberalitch]

12. Limme take my shoes off and get on in the kitchen....

I'll have to wait for the commie to come home to do the rest..... 'cept.... we aren't married.

[liberalnurse]

13. Okay then.......

NO MORE FUCKING!

[FreedomAngel82]

29. Exactly

If some man wants to tell me I can't have BC and all that then they don't get any sex with me. None.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LTR]

146. Exactly!

As the bumper sticker says, 'Just say no to sex with pro-lifers'.

Ask any of these fundie nuts if they've ever used a condom or other kind of birth control. I'll bet they're lying.

[ironman202]

31. it always strikes me that the people who think sex is bad

think that way because for them it usually is. Anti-abortion? anti birth control? Bullshit. They're anti-womaen. They don't understand women and they don't like them. Take a closer look at them with their paper signs and disapproving expressions. Who would want to fuck any of them in the first place?

[moodforaday]

82. Absolutely true

It always indicates some repressed sense of inferiority or inability to have healthy relationships. These guys have to feel power over whoever they're dealing with. It's sick that it's the same kind of people who tend to get elected, likely because they project that power.

[BlueIris]

156. Yep. Ya hit the nail on the head, ironman202.

I was suspicious of your post at first, but then I read it and went, hmmmm. I think this person should stick around. Welcome. Keep it up.

[mtnester]

40. AND since I agree with LibNurse on this

I would advise investing in Duracell stock!

Seriously, ladies, they are coming for us, you know that NOW don't you? You know Roberts is going to help overturn Roe V NOW don't you?


We need to wake up and fast....we outnumber those idiots (not to include those men who will fight right next to us in that broad stroke, no pun intended)

Either wake up, or prepare to immigrate, or prepare to accept the rule of law in the land of rich white fundamentalist males. These are your choices until/unless we can turn an election, and since no one in interested in verified voting, THAT is a remote possibility only WAY outside the odds of the above 3 choices.

Oh you all must re-read A Handmaids Tale, NOW, to see how quickly it could happen.


Special message to LibNurse - this does not mean you and I will not duel it out on tasers dahling! :)

[lvx35]

14. Wow. I wonder how one could mass impregate women.

One could pass one ones superior genes through thousands of unsuspecting breeders, and there is nothing they could do about it. I should write a sci-fi story, let the republiniks read it.

[ltfranklin]

101. An interesting question...

Freeze-dried sperm in the Massengill? A hidden Sperm-ejection system in Tampons? Electrically-operated sperm cannons hidden in vibrators?

Of course, I'm not being serious here...It's just fun saying the word.

Sperm....Sperm...Sperrrrrm!

Huh-huh!

[snot]

149. omigod, so easy--maybe WE shd start

. . . I do believe there are one or more genes for liberalism . . .

I wonder what would happen if we could get a bunch more impregnations on our side . . .

us effete intellectuals only too often choose not to reproduce in large numbers--often even opting only for intellectual legacies, as opposed to serving as mere vehicles for our DNA!

[sinkingfeeling]

16. Here's the link to NRAL's action page...

http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/house_alpha_072605/bb587u405e6b6j?

[nosmokes]

32. thanks! n/t

[Nikki Stone 1]

63. THANKS!

:kick:

[nosmokes]

17. link please

google search and a common dreams scan turned up nothing and i'd really like tocirculate this. thanks!

[uppityperson]

19. Problem is BCP can be used as PlanB is getting media coverage

It has been known for over 25 yrs (that I know of) that taking high doses of female hormones can prevent pregnancy if taken after intercourse. These can be a combination of regular birth control pills.

OK, it's now becoming known as "Plan B" and is getting more media attention and public knowledge so some pharmacists are over-reacting and not wanting to give out regular BCPs because they can be used after intercourse when "the egg is fertilized, causing death of a human"(quotes there as I do not believe this, this is their argument). Some will fill regular contraceptive prescriptions, but are balking at filling planB ones. Some are balking at any.

News report (NPR) yesterday said they don't see what the problem is as it is merely an inconvenience to go to another pharmacy, compared to the morality of providing a prescription to do away with a life. Sometimes it is not just an inconvenience, but an impossibility to get to another pharmacy. And do they get to not give out other medicines that they are morally opposed to, say heart medicine because if God wanted you to have a good heart you would have one so accept God's will?

DO NOT take a random amount of BCPs as plan B. You can get quite sick if you do. Call FP/PP for advice as to what ones, what number and when. The high dosage may upset your stomach or may not. Rumor has it it will but I never had problems, nor did others I know who used this method.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. Yes

I've heard this argument used on a Christian board I frequent. BC is a tool given to us by God to help us plan our own families. If a woman is having three/four jobs she surely isn't going to be ready for a family. I want to be the one to plan my family with my future husband and not some religious person who may not even be of the same type of part of Christianity I am.

[tedoll78]

21. I wonder how many DLCers are gonna support this.

'Cause, like, y'know.. there's no real difference.. :P

Seriously though, I really hope that the GOP gets louder and more upfront about this part of their agenda.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. This is ridiculous!

Women take BC for other issues as well! Sometimes if a woman is having trouble with their menstural cycle their doctor will perscribe BC. It's none of their freakin business why a woman is taking BC! Their job is to perscribe the medicine! If they didn't want to give out the birth control then find another job!

[LissaM]

188. Oh thank you!

That is exactly why I took BC for YEARS... Not so much anymore, but for years it was for other reasons.

[LizW]

26. So, do all these "Pharmacists for Life"

question Viagra purchasers to be sure they're going to use it to procreate? Do they ask for proof of marriage? Proof of the wife's age and fertility?

[femrap]

121. Viagra prescriptions should be given to

women ONLY! Think about it....it's only common sense that women be the ones to select who gets an 'artificial erection.'

I always wondered why Catholics weren't up in arms over these 'articial erections.' Think about it.....if God wanted the flaccid penise to be erect, it would be.....right? It's God's way of telling the male that reproduction of his genes is just not wanted at this time.

I am going to re-read 'The Handmaid's Tale.' I believe my friends are right when they say....'there is a war against women going on....and it's all over the world.'

[MaraJade]

123. I love your response!

It's is very clear that this whole thing is ANTI-WOMAN.

I think that this is a golden opportunity for some internet pharmacies. If you can't get your Pills from your local drugstore, then get them from an internet pharmacy.

[NewWaveChick1981]

28. These anti-choice idiots are the same ones...

...trying to tell women how to run their lives and control their own bodies, but if women get pregnant as a result of these anti-birth-control measures, are these same idiots going to care for all the unwanted children as a result??? HELL NO, they're not!!! They are also the same idiots who complain about public assistance, but if we're headed back to the Dark Ages with prescription birth control and abortion (wait..wasn't some form of abortion legal in the Dark Ages???), I'm afraid the neocons will have to deal with an explosion in the welfare rolls... :argh:

My father-in-law is a retired pharmacist, and I've got a brother- and a sister-in-law who are practicing pharmacists, and when the issue of refusing to fill prescriptions came up about a year ago at the state Pharmacy Board meeting, the ones who brought up the "right" to refuse were censured. My father-in-law (71 years old at the time) stood up and gave the refusers an earful---he (and 99% of the other pharmacists there) believes that personal beliefs should not enter into a relationship between a patient and his or her doctor. I'm glad he's on our side!!! (BTW, he's a lifelong Dem and so is his wife.)

[gkhouston]

35. good for him

the only time a pharmacist should question a prescription is when he/she believes there's a contraindication based on the patient's medical condition or other medications... I've seen that happen, while waiting to pick up my own prescriptions. The pharmacist in question quietly and calmly told the patient he needed to check with her doctor about the new medication just to be sure, made the call, and got things straightened out. Contrast that with the big scene one usually hears about when BC prescriptions are refused.

[toey]

30. I wonder what would happen if a doctor refused to prescribe b/c

I wonder what would happen if a doctor refused to prescribe b/c to a patient because its "morally wrong."

[Mandate My Ass]

34. IIRC, there was a case like that

the patient was stuck because that was the only ob/gyn in her insurance network. It sticks out in my mind because the doc was a woman. :eyes:

Edited to add link.

http://contracept.info/hormonal.php

"I feel chemical contraceptives have the potential to harm an embryo. And I decided based on moral and ethical grounds that I could no longer prescribe them." Mary Martin, MD, Ob/Gyn, Midwest City, OK
"I function better and sleep better at night knowing I'm not giving the Pill." Arthur Stehly, MD, Ob/Gyn, Los Angeles Area, CA

"Refusing access to the Pill is a very disturbing trend. The war on choice is not just about abortion anymore." Gloria Feldt, President Planned Parenthood Federation of America

"After reading in several other books and papers, I realized I could no longer justify prescribing the Pill. I think most women feel life begins at fertilization. When they find out about the post-fertilization effect, they're surprised and some even rethink their decision." Cynthia Jones-Nosacek, MD, Family Physician, Milwaukee, WI

[noamnety]

106. Here's what would happen to them

Bush would appoint them to the FDA or the AIDS commission.

FDA's Advisory Committee for Reproductive Health Drugs
W. David Hager. Time magazine reported that "In his private practice, two sources familiar with it say, Hager refuses to prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women." Played a part in the campaign to get the FDA to withdraw its approval of mifepristone (RU-486), the author of a number of books in which he's advocated prayer and the reading of the Scriptures as cures for medical ills.

FDA's Advisory Committee for Reproductive Health Drugs
Joseph B. Stanford. Refuses to prescribe "contraceptives of any sort." Advocates “natural family planning”, e.g. the rhythm method, as the only acceptable form of contraception because “…medicine is permeated with attitudes toward sexuality and fertility that are incompatible with Christian values."

FDA's Advisory Committee for Reproductive Health Drugs
Dr. Susan Crockett, co-author of the chapter “Using Hormone Contraceptives Is a Decision Involving Science, Scripture, and Conscience” in "The Reproduction Revolution (Horizons in Bioethics Series): A Christian Appraisal of Sexuality, Reproductive Technologies, and the Family"

Executive Director, Presidential Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS
Pat Ware, opposed to condom use. Has worked with Americans for a Sound HIV/AIDS Policy (ASAP), which has since changed its name to the Children’s AIDS Fund. ASAP was an abstinence-only organization opposed to most HIV/AIDS education and prevention measures. ASAP also lobbied against including HIV and AIDS in the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV and AIDS
Jerry Thacker, a Pennsylvania marketing consultant who has characterized AIDS as the "gay plague" and called homosexuality a "deathstyle". Thacker had argued that religious faith could cure homosexuals, that condoms do not stop the spread of HIV and that people choose to be gay.

Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV/AIDS
Joseph Jennings, promotes among other issues, religious conversion as a cure for homosexuality and sexual abstinence until marriage.

Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV/AIDS
Anita Smith, believes abstinence is the only true prevention." (Family Voice, July/August 2001). Smith’s organization lobbied against including HIV/AIDS status in the Americans With Disabilities Act.

Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV/AIDS
Dandrick Moton, a man whose background in HIV/AIDS policy consists of traveling with his mother as dual motivational speakers to promote abstinence for youth until marriage.

Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV/AIDS
Joe McIlaney, founder and director of the Medical Institute for Sexual Health (MISH) in Austin, Texas. MISH is an abstinence and anti safe-sex organization. Dr. McIlaney is most noted for his repeated attacks against the idea of using condoms to prevent HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases.

CDC Advisory Committee on HIV and STD Prevention
Dr. Freda McKissic Bush is a member of the advisory council of the Medical Institute — an anti-condom “research” group — and the director of Virginity Rules, an “abstinence-only” program.

[swimboy]

38. "Christian Scientist Pharmacist refuses to fill any prescriptions."

The Onion said it best.

[Dudley_DUright]

94. *snarf*

Love that Onion. :rofl:

[NAO]

141. Very Very Funny

That is about right. The Onion is often more useful than NYT and WaPo. Don't ever let Jon Stewart tell you that he invented fake news.

[Nikki Stone 1]

171. God, I love the "Onion:" Do you have the link to this story?

:)

[swimboy]

173. I don't, sorry. It left an indelible impression.

[Nikki Stone 1]

175. That's ok. I'll look it up.

It's very pointedly on target.

[madmom]

39. no birth control no viagra!....n/t

[eleny]

43. Here you go!

[jbnow]

42. Let's outlaw IUDs next

that prevent implantation. And the bible doesn't like men spilling their seed wastefully, so we have to outlaw male masturbation as well as condoms or "pulling out". Wasteful Millions of wasted potential babies.

We should charge God with a crime when there is a miscarriage. If he doesn't show up, charge him with contempt. If he does show up he can finally give them the smiting they have been asking for.

[kahleefornia]

72. Tell Pfizer

that the government has decided to let people refuse to sell their legal and profitable products.

Speak money.

[murielm99]

120. Not a bad idea.

We could go straight to the pharmacies and lobby them.

How much money do they make on birth control pills and devices? How much do they stand to lose?

[jean]

44. bc pills and other prescription forms of contraception HAVE to provide a

good chunk of revenue to Big Pharma. I can't believe the powers that be would allow radicals to choke off their business.

[area51]

45. "Pharmacists for Life"?

More like Pharmacists against Women. :mad:

[lady lib]

46. More like Pharmacists for Impregnation,

poverty, and hopelessness.

Grrrr.

[Khaotic]

48. Let Me Get This Straight ...

+



=

Mind altering thoughts which =



which =




and thus should =



against the idiot Pharmacist that tries to inflict his beliefs on the masses.

What's next when ...



the Wally World associate refuses to sell



I guess the "pull and pray" method will be the only choice left.



SCARRY

[Nikki Stone 1]

49. Could our DU ACTIVIST CORPS do some action on this?

:kick:

[Khaotic]

68. The Real Numbers

What someone needs to do is start pushing the REAL numbers, instead of focusing on nothing, but the negative ones.

From what I understand, having casual sex today is safer than it was last year, and the year before that, and the year before that.

It's Vegas Odds.


and all the variables come into play, but the truth be told is that birth control and condoms have curbed STDs in America it's becoming safer and safer to have sex.

They hate that, don't they.


Instead of combating STDs with information and open discussion, they would rather pass laws and push their agenda by using religion as a tool to meet a political end.



IDIOTS!!!!!

[Initech]

50. So is "no sex" now part of the fundies' agenda?

I think that's their ultimate goal - to stop people from having causual sex. God, this is getting fucking ridiculous.

[iconoclastic cat]

62. And then there's the veils...

[Initech]

73. The Ameritaliban is quickly taking over this country!

They must be stopped!

[iconoclastic cat]

74. Part of me wants them to go through with it.

You can bet your ass that the 50% of this country who couldn't be bothered to vote would get off their asses if the fundie fascists banned birth control, nudity in movies, anything not about Jesus on TV, etcetera.

But another part of me wonders if that would be too late, and there wouldn't even be a real election held again.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think that 2006 will be a real election, fundies or no fundies.

[Fritz67]

98. Of course you can still have sex...

...but only if you're Christian, white, you're in a heterosexual marriage to the person you're sleeping with, and the man makes enough money on his own to support the woman and all children they have without any government assistance.

But even then you can't enjoy it.

[wli]

108. c.f. 1984 and "abolish the orgasm"

Sexual inhibition, frustration, blackmail, etc. are all part of the totalitarian agenda.

[redacted]

51. Backlash: The vast overwhelming majority of people support birth control

usage and that this kind of extremism, if it becomes public -- will create a backlash.

Most americans do not want to go back to the early 20th century -- when having sex meant having children.

It just won't happen, but exposing their efforts will help us greatly.

(BTW do these freaks also oppose other methods of brith control? condoms, diaphrams, IUD's)

[gkhouston]

52. IUDs, yes.

I don't know about condoms or diaphragms, but it wouldn't surprise me. They do seem to think that women should be either chaste or pregnant, as if more people were something this planet actually needed. :eyes:

[PegDAC]

95. Pro-Life?

BUSHWA!!! These nitwits are pro-birth. If they were truly pro-life, they would give a damn what happen to that child post-birth. And they don't!:puke:

[Alcibiades]

53. Yes

These are the same folks preaching against condoms to limit the spread of HIV & STD's.

Someone, somewhere, is having amazing sex. God, it's a wonder any of these folks can sleep at night!

[gkhouston]

54. yes, they do seem to equate contraception with illicit sex

I guess nobody's told them that married folk use contraception, too. Or perhaps they're married and completely unacquainted with the concept of sex for non-reproductive purposes.

[MaraJade]

128. To these wackos, sex is ONLY for reproductive purposes. . .

They've torn the Song of Solomon out of their Bibles.

None of that "let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth! For your love is better than wine!" or that "my beloved is mine and I am his" stuff! No "drink(ing) abundantly of love" for them! (Song of Solomon
1:2; 2:16; 5:1)

The only purpose of sex is to get children! Sex is supposed to be an onorous duty for women, something that they only barely "put up with.
Any WOMAN (not man) who enjoys worry-free sex is a whore. Only men have the right to enjoy worry-free and circumstance-free sex!

[AndyTiedye]

56. They Don't Care What The Overwhelming Majority Wants. They Have

Fixing the Votes Around the Candidate

[redacted]

84. Of Course they don't care, but if you start demanding something that is so

far out of the main stream -- no wait, if you start messing with people's ability to have sex.

There will be a backlash.

You can't try to take us back a hundred years and not have people thinking you're crazy.

It'd be like banning cars -- people would revolt. (Will revolt) if they try to take away birth control.

I think that's why the Repugs will eventually tell the rel. right to shut up about it -- and (if) when they don't it could potentially make a rift.

But they would have to get far more agressive about it for people to even notice. Right now it's just not a reality for those nut jobs.

[wli]

109. how much backlash was there to the USA PATRIOT Act?

Perhaps biological weapons are a greater threat than anticipated.

Or maybe it won't take anything new, just a heightened level of AIDS fearmongering.

[redacted]

132. The USA patriot act does not affect your average Joe's daily living. NT

The comparison just doesn't pan out.

[wli]

147. It will soon.

It just takes a while for the Homeland Offense Gestapo to get around to knocking on their doors at 3AM.

[kestrel91316]

90. The Christofascist dominionists oppose ALL birth control except

the Rhythm Method (aka Russian Roulette).

[Bo]

55. I am not able to write how I feel....Sorry to all women everywhere

WTF is wrong with these assholes.....

[BlueIris]

158. You know, outlawing hormonal contraception hurts MEN, too.

I'd first like to point out again that women use BCP for medical reasons other than contraception, something these ignorant slimy fuckwads in the House are pretending isn't important either. But the partners of women who use the pill as a form of protection against pregnancy (or, in some cases, as a means of enhancing reproductive health prior to trying to conceive, another issue the slimy Republican fuckwads are totally ignorant about) are also hurt by women not having access to it, especially considering how many of them are lazy, selfish, lazy, inconsiderate, misogynist, immature little assholes who refuse to take responsibility for their own biology and properly use contraception themselves, including neglecting to GET VASECTOMIES, which more men would do if they really cared anything about the long-term health of the females they're basically using like objects to masturbate with. They suffer as well, along with the women they're going to knock up if this shit continues.

Assholes.

[CTyankee]

57. Next, folks, will be living wills

Ah yes, the RAndall Terry's are not finished yet. Notice how he resurfaced on the Schiavo case. There was talk from the looney righties that they would be trying to outlaw living wills during the Schiavo episode but it settled down pretty fast in view of the huge public reaction against the right's invasion of family privacy.

Yes, indeed, with Roberts heading for the Court the disintegration of privacy rights for Americans will be complete before we know it.

[Khaotic]

58. If they had their way ...

and don't think they wouldn't want men to be 'clicked-in' too!



Of course they won't go so far as to say it directly at first. Instead they'll simply support the freak jobs out there that use their religious views as a wedge to enforce and inflict their warped thoughts on the rest of the American public.

These people don't except a truely free America that's diverse in color, creed, religion, and morality! The want to shape America to reflect their distorted views based on their fairy tales and biblical mind control.

While Christianity might have been the better means to an end than Paganism and idol worship, that propaganda moment has come and gone.

Now is the time to admit the reality of Jesus Christ as a great speaker and toss away the false propaganda of his resurection, which was used as a tool to cast aside the pagan religion.

Son of God? It doesn't really matter people ... instead, concentrate on his message, instead of making a God out of the messenger.

When was it ever documented that Jesus was against Gays? When did Jesus speak out against birth control?

He did, however, cast aside the notion of 'eye for an eye,' and instead said 'turn the other cheek.' Where's that notion amoung neocons, conservatives, FReepers, the Christian Reich, and GOPland????

These are distored people trying to legislate Christianity, and at that, trying to legislate views that weren't even supported by Jesus Christ himself!!!! Where's the CHRISTanity in that??????

[kestrel91316]

92. You should all become my religion:

Neopagan Ecofeminist with Anabaptist Leanings

[PegDAC]

96. I'm the product

of an excommunicated Mennonite (three generations from being Amish) and a Southern Baptist. I'm allergic to Anabaptists. And to Baptists, too, for that matter!
:beer:
:yoiks:

[kestrel91316]

103. Re the Anabaptists:

What I like - adult rather than infant baptism, trying to emulate Jesus (emphasis on good works), pacifism, simple living/agricultural means of earning a living/anticonsumerism, close community/close families/elder care rather than nursing homes, my Amish cookbooks (Cooking From Quilt Country, More Recipes From Quilt Country)

What I am more than a little iffy about - the whole Jesus as saviour/human sacrifice/or you burn in hell forever thing (icky!), Amish have those weird all-day church services........

[Warren DeMontague]

119. I prefer to remain secular humanist with Taoist leanings

who still harbors deep reverence for J.R. "Bob" Dobbs and the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

And worships Eris in secret. (Shhh!)

[Fritz67]

102. Oh, c'mon...

Everybody knows Jesus told his followers "Thou shalt not wrap thy whopper"
:sarcasm:

[wli]

110. more likely pharmaceutical methods, psychiatric "treatment" of promiscuity

After all, what good is an "antidepressant" without impotence-inducing side-effects?

[EC]

60. I wonder how they feel about surgical sterilization or vesectomies

since these prevent any chance of fertilization? What will it take, some crazy woman standing in front of the Congress cutting out her uterus? For crying out loud, do they REALLY want women to be breeders and that's it?

[Khaotic]

71. surgical sterilization or vesectomies

Those are out.

As a Catholic (yeah ... I know, how do I call myself Catholic) I know that my religion teaches that ANYTHING that is done to keep pregnancy from happening and is done so people can have sex for sex and not to have children is a sin.

So cutting and slicing is a no, no in the Catholic religion.

The ONLY accepted way of family planning that is accepted is the method of having sex at the times of the month in which pregnancy is less likely to happen.

Believe it or not there are Catholics against that too.

The 'Pull and Pray' method is also a sin, as it spills the seed of the man on the ground so to speak. The seed is looked at as life, just as much so as a growing fetus, because it is involved in creating life.

There's some verse in the bible that states something about thal shalt not spill thy seed or some shit like that.

In a NUTshell, it's a sin, as is masturbation. You'll go to hell. Forever and ever.

FEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EC]

170. What hypocrites

The rhythm method is sex for the sake of sex, and to prevent pregnancy, so it should also be as sinful as a vasectomy or tube tying...


This is why I said FucK it years ago to the Catholic Religion, I stopped going to church and decided these are all man-made rules for control and money...the hell with them all...

[kestrel91316]

93. YES to your question. Understand them NOW????

[MaraJade]

124. Yeah--they want women to be breeders--

See my comments down the line. There's money to be made in adoptions and a lot of churches are heavily involved in this. Unwanted kids are a big money maker.

Like Carville said, "drag a $100 bill around" and see who comes out to get it. . .

[Nikki Stone 1]

61. The conservatives have been working on this for years

They have been programming college students through the YAF (William F Buckley JR.) since the late 70s. Their first college students are now my age, and the ones coming up are even more conservative.

[wli]

111. I suppose we should have done similarly

Of course, we haven't, so here we are, screwed.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. Santorum on Aaron Brown's Newsnight:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/25/asb.01.html

BROWN: Do you think there's a right to privacy in the Constitution?

SANTORUM: No -- well, not the right to privacy as created under Roe v. Wade and all...

BROWN: Do you think there's a right to privacy in the Constitution?

SANTORUM: I think there's a right to unreasonable -- to unreasonable search and seizure...

BROWN: For example, if you'd been a Supreme Court judge in Griswold versus Connecticut, the famous birth control case came up, which centered around whether there was a right to privacy. Do you believe that was correctly decided?

SANTORUM: No, I don't. I write about it in the book. I don't.

BROWN: The state of Connecticut had the right to ban birth control for a married couple.

SANTORUM: I think they were wrong. It was a bad law.

BROWN: But they had the right.

SANTORUM: They had the right. They had the right...

BROWN: Why would a conservative argue that government should interfere with that most personal decision?

SANTORUM: I didn't. I said it was a bad law. And...

BROWN: But they had the right to make.

SANTORUM: They had the right to make it. Look, legislatures have the right to make mistakes and do really stupid things...

I don't know what's scarier, his assertion that legislatures have the right to pass "bad laws" like ones criminalizing contraception, or the fact that a potential candidate for President knows so little about legal history and the constitution...

[wli]

112. "there's a right to unreasonable search and seizure"

Brilliant. We have the right to be unreasonably searched and to have our property unreasonably seized. The true next step in the neofascist agenda.

[Warren DeMontague]

116. Yeah, I really liked that too. Paging Dr. Freud, your slip is showing.

nt

[MaraJade]

131. Santorum is

dumber than a bag of broken hammers! He is an IDIOT and an embarrassment to the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The sooner he's gone, the better!

[Nikki Stone 1]

134. Of course, if he loses PA, he'll just go on and run for President

Or so he says.

[Universal Acid]

186. Santorum: what a tool

<img src="">

The American taliban strikes again

[Warren DeMontague]

66. Link: Fill My Pills Now - From Planned Parenthood

http://www.saveroe.com/fillmypillsnow/


edit: And yet ANOTHER reason to send all your business to COSTCO!

[Nikki Stone 1]

70. Thanks for the link. I've sent my emails out--we all need to.

:kick:

[Spinzonner]

75. Proposed: Failure to fill a legal prescription on this basis

should require a pharmacy to issue a voucher to the customer which will cause them - the refusing pharmacy - to pay for the prescription at some other pharmacy that the customer has to go to to get it filled. Plus a 5% or minimum $10 'inconvenience fee' reimbursible to the customer.

This would motivate pharmacies to have at least on pharmacist on duty who could fill all prescriptions.

In rural or other low density areas where only one pharmacist/pharmacy is practical, other provisions might be necessary. Such as requiring the pharmacy to provide and pay for the delivery of affected drugs from the nearest non-refusing pharmacy - regardless of distance.

[gkhouston]

76. If I see my pharmacy refuse to fill someone else's BC prescription

I'll take all of my prescriptions elsewhere after very publicly stating why I'm removing my business. Just in case the pharmacy has trouble with their record-keeping, I might have to come back a time or two, at peak business hours, to be sure my prescriptions have been moved.

I have a resonant voice that carries well.

[femrap]

125. What if....

a woman becomes pregnant due to a pharmacist's refusal to fill a BC prescription???? Grounds for HUGE legal problems....sue the pharmacist for all the costs associated with raising a child...including a Harvard education!

[Nikki Stone 1]

130. Hmm.... That's an idea

Unless the Repugs push through a law banning such lawsuits.

[Ruffhowse]

79. So I guess Scientologist pharmacists could refuse to prescribe

any anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, anti-psychotic medications, because they believe all psychiatry is evil and wrong. This is crazy.

[depakid]

81. Welp, I've only been saying this for 20 some odd years...

This seems to be my "I told you so" day- so I might as well get them all out of my system, so I don't have to be so crass to be sayin' it tomorrow....

and it's not just birth control- it's the entire panoply of things that fall under the federal right to privacy.

Republicans DO NOT BELIEVE IN A RIGHT TO PRIVACY.

That's the bottom line and anyone who wants to do the analysis can see it and so many ways it boggles the mind.

This should have been a meme shouted from every roof top for at least a decade....

Now of course it's too late.

[tibbir]

85. I knew that Roe was in danger and this was the only logical next step

but I can't believe it all the same. I'm too old for it to affect me but it affects all of us.

[madeline_con]

88. No birth control OR abortion? WTF???

What are these idiots thinking? Are these idiots thinking???


EDIT:

When large numbers of people boycott major pharmacy chains due to this bullshit, the pharmacies might get the message and fire employees who do this.

If this happens to you, keep DU informed, people!!!

[OneTwentyoNine]

91. Hey....GO FOR IT!!

Funny how those FUCKS are always soooo sure how the majority of Americans are 100% behind them. Uhh,yeah...I think the Schiavo matter BLEW that concept clean out of the water.

Go ahead and get a bunch of crackpot pharmacists that won't fill BC prescriptions,you idiots won't like the backlash your store gets.

[agincourt]

99. I'm quite OK with moral christian pharmacists withholding contraceptives

As long as those pigs are castrated with a dull knife for their "beliefs".

[No Blood for Hubris]

104. This Needs to Become a Major Crisis

Are we all going to be held hostage to the religious dogma of all the various religions?

If we all have to follow Catholic dogma, do we then also all have to follow Zoroastrian dogma? If we all are forced by law to follow Taliban Christian dogma, do we then therefore have to all follow Druid dogma?

What if they conflict?

Isn't this why the anti-establishment of an official religion clause was, uh, gee, ESTABLISHED?


Shheeeesh.

[Greylyn58]

105. I'm so tired of these "so-called" moral people

telling me and every other woman in this country that we have no right to something our personal physician prescribed to us, that we have no rights to what we do to our own bodies!!

When did a collection of cells have more rights than a living, breathing woman? These vile people care more about a life not yet created than the ones already here. It is sick and I swear I'm not a violent person, but if I was sitting before these bastards in a hearing and they hard the gall to tell me not receiving my BCP is a"minor inconvenience' I might be provoked to become violent.

The only irony I see in all this is BC pills, patches, etc. are big business for the drug companies and if these whack-jobs start cutting into their profits they will probably act to make sure it doesn't hurt them, not because it would help women.

Sick...sick...sick!!!

[jmowreader]

107. Oh my...I found the Scripture that signs off on this

Genesis 38 covers this...

1: And it came to pass at that time, that Judah went down from his brethren, and turned in to a certain Adul'lamite, whose name was Hirah.

2: And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shu'ah; and he took her, and went in unto her.

3: And she conceived, and bare a son; and he called his name Er.

4: And she conceived again, and bare a son; and she called his name Onan.

5: And she yet again conceived, and bare a son; and called his name Shelah: and he was at Chezib, when she bare him.

6: And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar.

7: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.

8: And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

9: And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10: And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Brothers and sisters, we must understand the Context of this Scripture. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

My friends, it seems that the Lord was in his Hit Man phase at this time. I have personally attempted to count the number of people God whacked because he was pissed-off at them. I don't have that many fingers. Remember, in Genesis 7:11 the Lord drowned every last creature that walked the earth, except for Noah and the creatures he took aboard the ark with him.

Okay, so we've got God running around killing anyone who pissed him off, which wasn't difficult to do. We've got Onan being directed to impregnate his brother's wife so that "his brother" would finally have children, and he refused. So he fucked her many times, but every time he nailed Tamar he'd pull out just before he came.

And because Onan kept leaving wet spots on the sheets because he didn't want to father Er's kids, and because God really hates it when you do that, you woofless commie lib'ruls gotta realize that every time you have sex, you're supposed to have a baby.

I foresee a ban on high-performance personal lubricants after that. And after that? Grip strength tests for guys: if your right hand has a 300-lb-ft grip and your left only 75, expect lots of really embarrassing personal questions.

[raising2moredems]

113. The Vagina Patrol

aka pussy posse if I don't need to be PC. My local posse member, Manzullo must think this is a small business issue. He worries more about my vagina than anything else in this district except his campaign coffers.
To paraphrase a LTTE, will it be ok for a Scientology member to not fill a script for anti-depressants because they don't believe in them? And do these pharmacies have Viagra, Cialis etc? Condoms, spermicides etc? How about K-Y jelly? If any one knows of a link that lists these pharmacies where the holier-than-thous are, please post it. I'll go visit any ones in my area.
Numerous people have stated that it wasn't just about abortion and they are correct. Breeder women are put on display and the "studs" (must be a better word as these men aren't studs by any stretch of the imagination) wear their "prowess" out in public.
Maybe I can get a prescription for the pill, hike my heinie to one of these pharmacies, jerk their chains for a while, THEN tell them I'm pro-sterilization for whatever-religion-they-may-be. I'll have to noodle on this issue for a bit and figure out what I need to do and can do.
A good laugh, I hit check spelling accidentally and "manfully" came up as a replacement for Manzullo. Not hardly...

[rucky]

114. Legislation made by men who never got laid in college n/t

[zinndependence]

115. I don't know who the hell these people think they are...

are they so arrogant that they think they know "best?" I'm sure their lives aren't so "morally pure." I'm sure they are a bunch of moral hypocrites. This totally pisses me off. I need to stop before I say something I'll regret!

[Warren DeMontague]

117. Another reason to give your business to COSTCO if you can:

http://www.saveroe.com/fillmypillsnow/scored.php

[Olympus]

118. Stunning lack of foresight

The Republican Onion of Stupidity never ceases to amaze- just when you think you've come to the end, there's another layer to peel away.

So they want to ban birth control, but have no solution to deal with all of the unwanted children which would inevitably result. The country is already awash in unwanted kids waiting for adoption- and those kids have to contend with underfunded programs and decaying facilities. Still, I have yet to see any of these moralistic repugs thrill to the idea of adopting their very own "ward of the state" to make room for all those new, naturally conceived & unwanted additions. How moral is that? If you are going to insist on preventing birth control (or abortion, for that matter) on moral grounds, then it seems there should be a corresponding moral duty to adopt and care for the unwanted children which result. At the very least, repugs should be advocating big spending increases on social services to help feed, clothe, house and educate all those new babies. Then again, repugs have never shown much interest in thinking about the consequences of their actions. Par for the course.

:dem:

[MaraJade]

129. The solution to the unwanted child problem is to SELL them. . .

Have women 'give' them to so-called faith-based adoption agencies
who will sell them and make ten to thirty thousand dollars on each
sale (adoption).

[Erika]

133. I can see neocons wheels turning

Selling babies could be more lucrative than oil! I think Haliburton is probably now researching it.

They say values are nice but $ are far superior. Cheney might even get his pension check upped.

[MaraJade]

122. A white male infant is worth anywhere between

$10,000 - $30,000 in the adoption market. Guess who (what?) one of the largest adoption agencies in the US is? Catholic Charities.

They stand to make a SHITLOAD of money when women are turned into baby factories. This is just another form of assistance to "faith-based" charities that traffic in white infants. The woman gets nothing but inconvenience and loss and the agency gets a desperate woman who is willing to "give up" her baby. A baby that is a very valuable commodity. Not just Catholic Charities, but all so-called
faith-based organizations.

Just another form of slavery, if you ask me. Why don't these "charities" perform these services for free? They are "charities," after all--

They don't act as adoption agencies for free because this is a business, not a charity. And with the available supply of white kids
drying up due to birth control, and the complaints of the churches to
their buddies in the White House and Congress, this is the solution.

Abolish Birth Control altogether! Modify welfare so that all safety nets are destroyed! This will FORCE women to become desperate enough to "give away" kids for free; kids that then become worth $$$$$ on the
adoption market.

What hasn't been factored in is that children of color are not generally wanted for adoption. Neither are handicapped ones. I expect orphanages to be filled to the rim with those. But then again, that is also more business for these churches. They can run
the orphanages, which will be financed by tax dollars.

Then there are the so-called "homes" for unwed mothers that can be really big money makers--opportunities galore! Halliburton, are you listening?

The Repugs have finally perfected a way to make money off the poor!

Millions of unwanted kids will make money for them. Think of the $$$!! Think of the opportunities for "use" of these kids!

[Nikki Stone 1]

126. That is an interesting way to look at it.. You could be right

It always does come down to economics, doesn't it.

[paranoid floyd]

135. Message to Hillbillies

Stop fucking.
Now.
We don't need anymore of your fucked up kind.

[Bosso 63]

159. But my cousin is so hot!

[NAO]

136. Pro-Choice Americans should stage a TOTAL boycott of drug stores who

do not unconditionally terminate any pharmacist who refuses to fill a prescription written by a PHYSICIAN for ANYTHING.

Pharmacists are paid to fill prescriptions, not provide moral advice. If we want a lecture on morality, we can go to churches and listen to clerics. Religious superstition should NOT have veto power over the written orders of a physician.

[Nikki Stone 1]

137. I wonder how we could get this started

It might be hard to get people to boycott places near home.

[NAO]

140. Christians have this down...It is why they are stronger than their numbers

would seem to indicate.

When I was a kid growing up in the 1970's, the Christians did a blanket boycott of Proctor and Gamble. They thought the "moon and stars" logo was evidence of witchcraft or an allegiance to Satan.

Who knew there were SO MANY products made by Proctor and Gamble. My parents, my sisters, my relatives, my parents friends, my friends parents - everyone in my world was in on the boycott. People said stuff like, "Tide got my clothes cleaner, but better to have a clean soul than to support a company that supports Satan worship."

This may seem like lunatic fringe stuff, but it affected Proctor and Gamble enough that, after some attempts to explain the innocence of the logo, they changed it!

People think the big corporations are so powerful - and they do have too much power - but the real threat is the Religious Reich. They have always had enormous power, and lately it has been growing. People are going to be really surprised when Big Pharma, or investment bankers are strong-armed and forced to change their business practices by the Religious Reich. Then they will see that it was not just about corporatists USING the Christians to advance their agenda. They will not be able to control the monster they have invoked.

[NAO]

138. The Religious Reich...The Swift Advance of a Planned Theocratic Coup

Fundamentalist Radical Clerics such as Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson are not merely medieval throwbacks or misguided religious hacks. They are part of a well organized subversionary movement known as "Dominionism".

Dominionism constitutes a serious threat to American Democracy. These Radical Clerics have developed and are executing a detailed plan to gradually replace the free, secular democratic society of the United States with a Theocracy.

It is critical that people become aware of the extreme agenda these people have for the United States and ultimately for the world. The results of the 2004 Presidential Election were not a fluke or something that was drummed up over a period of months. It has been in planning for over 20 years, and what we are seeing take place now is, in the words of Katherine Yurica, "the swift advance of a planned coup".

The articles below are critical for understanding the Dominionist movement; for realizing how real and how detailed their plans are; and to become aware of how far they have come toward achieving their goals.

The Swift Advance of a Planned Coup: Conquering by Stealth and Deception - How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

The Despoiling of America: How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Video on the Christian Reconstructionist Dominionist Theocratic Agenda
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.ram

The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party
a public information project from TheocracyWatch.org
http://www.theocracywatch.org

The Yurica Report - News, Intelligence, Analysis
http://www.yuricareport.com

The Religious Right - An Anti-American Terrorist Movement
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8816.htm

***
***

The Antidote to the Rise of the Religious Reich is a Revival of the Freethought Movement

I think what we need is a Freethought movement similar to what the US had around the turn of the 20th century. Robert Ingersoll was touring the country, lecturing on secularism and exposing the claims of revealed religion to be false. Unless something breaks the stranglehold of religious fundamentalism in the US - and in the world - I think we are going to continue the slide into Theocracy and destruction.

Robert Ingersoll's "Why I Am Agnostic"
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/why_i_am_agnostic.html

Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason"
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

The Freethought Zone
Science and Reason Over Religion and Superstition
http://freethought.freeservers.com /

Freedom from Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org /

Secular Humanism
http://www.secularhumanism.org /

Secular Web
http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml

Complete Works of Robert Ingersoll - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml

[Khaotic]

162. Church of Reality

NAO you are right.

We need to get more and more and more people to call a spade a spade.

This crazy fuckers should be called what they are ... The Christian REICH!!!



Each of them should have that symbol fucking branded on their forehead.

More and more I'm thinking that we would be much better off if a lot less religion were inflicted on society.

Personal belief is just that, personal belief. Keep it to yourself, while the rest of society is allowed to do as they please ... it's called America.


My personal feelings on the Jesus Fish.

Need commandments, maybe these would suit Americans as a better choice.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (OF THE ETHICAL ATHEIST)
http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/ten_commandments.html

NOTE: Freethought and tolerance obviously prohibit these from being "commandments"! Just consider them "suggestions".

1. Thou SHALT NOT believe all thee art told.
2. Thou SHALT constantly seeketh knowledge and truth.
3. Thou SHALT educate thy fellow man in the Laws of Science.
4. Thou SHALT NOT forget the atrocities committed in the name of god.
5. Thou SHALT leaveth valuable contributions for future generations.
6. Thou SHALT liveth in peace with thy fellow man.
7. Thou SHALT liveth this one life thy have to its fullest.
8. Thou SHALT follow a Personal Code of Ethics.
9. Thou SHALT maintain a strict separation between Church and State.
10. Thou SHALT support ye who follow these commandments.

Instead of the damn Jesus Fish just think ...



I went a Unitarian church service once ... pretty cool, they opened up the service by singing John Lennon's "Imagine" it was the most moving "church" experience I've ever had.

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

[MiniMe]

142. The pill is not used only for birth control

Many doctors prescribe birth control pills for a variety of ailments, including uncontrolled bleeding and pain from endometriosis. So these facists think that women should bleed to death or have a hysterectomy because they can't get a prescription for birth control? Or they should live in pain because they can't get a prescription. It isn't anybodys business why my doctor might prescribe the pill to me, that is between me and my doctor.

What about married women that have been told not to have children like diabetics or women with lupus. Having a child could kill these women. So those couples should just refrain from having sex and if they can't, oh well, they can't have an abortion because "that would be wrong" so they end up dying. Oh well.

This just disgusts me!

[LTR]

145. BC pills are also used for hormone treatment

My ex used them for endometriosis as well.

[lizerdbits]

154. I used them for hormone problems too

for irregular/non stop periods. I guess I'm supposed to just bleed for 6 months non stop according to these freaks. Oh, wait I bet if I just pray it will magically stop. :eyes:
I don't understand the conception obsession. Maybe all menstrating women should be imprisioned for failure to conceive- an egg has been released and has 'died.' Baby killers! I wish these alleged Christians would put this kind of energy into poverty and other human suffering instead of my damn uterus, then the world might be a better place. That seems to make too much sense for them.

[Broken_Hero]

148. What a joke...seriously.

But given todays standards, i guess i can't be so suprised. I can't explain, or do i lack the words to explain? So, if these jack ass pharmacists can get away with this, can i say, "I don't want to work for a black man cause its wrong" arguement? Or say its against my religious beliefs to not serve a jew his dinner, or not do buisness with a mexican, or indian cause its against my religion, or beliefs? My god people, what the hell is going on in our on in our country? I have never seen such ridicoulous crap in my life.

Its a womans right to choose, its a womans right to be on birth control. It reminds me of those people who get mad at you if you kill an animal who gets dumped on your property. They always say"oh, don't kill it, thats bad". I usually respond by saying, Hey whats your address and i will dump the animal off at your house. That usually shuts them up, because its a pain to deal with the animals. In a post i saw the other day, the poster said, most pro lifers are only pro birth, not pro life, and i totally agree with that analysis. Woman have the right to choose, any one who doens't want to give a woman her birth control pills from a valid prescription should be fired on the spot. If i complained about somethint like this at my job, my rear end would have been fired a long time ago.

I don't know, our country of ours is going to hell in a handbasket fast. Next i see them giving out felonies to any man who masturbates and wastes semen, oh, wait, it might happen...in this country, who knows anymore.

[Wetzelbill]

150. See this is why we need to fight these sick fuckers

sorry. I'm about to lose my cool.

These people would sell women's rights in a second and frankly all too many Dems act like they aren't too worried about it. We need some fighters not a bunch of wimps who will stand by and do nothing to help the poor, minorities, and women. As we just seen with CAFTA we have those in our party who don't even fight for the American Worker anymore. Pathetic.

[tsuki]

151. Want to stop this? Double taxes to guarantee all children have

the same access to health and welfare as fetuses.

[PurpleChez]

153. I am waiting for all of those moderate republicans

who voted for * because of some vague perception that he was "moral" or showed "integrity" to recoil in horror and run off to commit ritual seppuku out of disgust for what they've done to their country. I normally don't claim to see the future, but back in November I predicted that perhaps more dangerous than what * would do as president would be what the newly-energized fundie thumper nutjobs would do at the state and local level. At the time I was thinking about small potatoes stuff like the local baptist council of elders (I live in the south) deciding to outlaw halloween. The American Taliban trying to outlaw contraception is a far more dangerous example. As other writers mentioned, the vast majority of Americans support some form of birth control. But how many of them will say anything about it? How many have been lobotomized by this idea that we can't disagree with our idiot president about ANYTHING because there's a WAR. (Albeit a war that HE started illegally and on false pretences, but that's several dozen other posts.) Wow...ranting can surely mess with one's blood sugar.

[tyedyeto]

155. Pharmacists are NOT doctors.

Their job is to dispense medications a doctor has declared that a patient needs.

They are NOT qualified to practice medicine and should be indicted for practicing medicine without a lisence if they deny patients the medicines a doctor has prescribed.

[TwilightZone]

161. Many pharmacists are doctors.

And most pharmacists have nearly as much medical training as doctors do. They have much more training than most doctors re: the medications themselves.

And, keep in mind that they DO practice medicine -- they discuss medical issues with the customers and recommend over-the-counter medications frequently.

[tyedyeto]

197. But what gives them the right to supercede another Doctor's orders

without the original doctor's consent? They may have knowledge of medications but does that allow them to actually practice medicine?

I refuse to take a pharmacist's advice over my personal physician. They may have the schooling but are they lisenced physicians? Or simply lisenced pharmacists?

Recommending an over-the-counter product is very different than denying a customer a medicine their doctor has prescribed.

[sendero]

160. I see this..

.... as nothing more than "give them enough rope" and "Democratic campaign material".

If you think rank and file Americans will sit still for this bullshit, I disagree.

Americans are very good at looking the other way - until it is their ox getting gored. The AmeriTaliban is about to find out that mainstream America does NOT agree with their position and they will pay a price for their own myopic hubris.

[Baltimore]

163. Illinois

In Illinois, Governor Rod Blagojevich, who has always been a stand-up man for women's rights, has made it AGAINST THE LAW to refuse to fill prescriptions for either regular birth control pills or emergency Plan B contraceptives. His Emergency Order is still in effect until Aug. 1 when it becomes official state law. He made a most dramatic speech on this subject on the BBC. He said, "I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a movement on foot in this country to deprive women on their right to birth control...These prescriptions will be filled promptly...no moral lectures."

[Nikki Stone 1]

167. Go Blagojevich!

If only our Dems in Congress had the numbers

[Baltimore]

201. Go Blagojevich

Oh, Nikki Stone 1! How gratified I am to see a supportive message for my beloved Illinois Governor!

[Mythsaje]

165. I say

You can either oppose abortion or effective birth control. Pick one!

[GracieM]

166. Our strongest weapon here is $$$

Hit their pocketbooks...

[Khaotic]

168. No Abortion & No Birth Control = More People

As it was stated before ... more people are needed to feed into the machine.





NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND

Of course they need to control the masses and masses of people.




And with the help of prayer and religion the message will prosper.



But ... we all know where that religion leads when it comes to controlling the masses.

[Khaotic]

172. Fifty Pharmacy Scorecard

Whenever I have to get meds I usually go to Walgreens ... not anymore.

They are one of the stores on Planned Parenthood's Fifty Pharmacy Scorecard w/ a thumbs down.

See it at: http://www.saveroe.com/fillmypillsnow/content.php?pid=302

They must support their pharmacists who will not dispense birth control.

Assholes lost my business.

[JAbuchan08]

177. Just what exactly is involved in gaining a pharmaceutical liscense?

I personally believe that there should be a law requiring pharmacists to dispense any and all medication that is FDA approved as long as it is accompanied by a doctor's prescription.

[Name removed]

178. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JAbuchan08]

179. That was pretty tasteless

I get your point, but they'll outlaw that pretty soon here.

[Chimpeach]

181. thanks

I try.

Actually, I think anal is illegal in many states.

[JAbuchan08]

183. You know you should probably tone it down a little bit

it looks like you've already had one message deleted.

[McCamy Taylor]

180. This is going to blow up in the Far Right's face. Doctors will go nuclear.

Patients will go nuclear. And whenever you get the two together, you have some serious political muscle.

Big ouchie for the Republicans in 2006. Couldnt happen to a more deserving party.

[McCamy Taylor]

182. Also, for economic reasons, pharmaceutical boards will clamp down.

If enough pharmacists refuse to fill prescriptions, State Medical Boards will allow physicians to sell drugs directly to patients, which will be a financial windfall to doctors---and huge finacial loss to pharmacists.

Since it is in the finacial interests of all pharmacists to keep their monopoly on the ability to sell drugs, they must make sure that doctors dont get the right to sell them.

[DemBones DemBones]

189. More correctly, it's a campaign against ABORTIFACIENTS. nt

[Nikki Stone 1]

192. Don't agree.

There's more at stake than abortifacients.

[DemBones DemBones]

207. Are any pharmacists refusing to sell condoms, diaphragms,

spermicidal foam -- CONTRACEPTIVES?

BIRTH CONTROL includes CONTRACEPTIVES (means of preventing conception) and ABORTIFACIENTS (means of causing an abortion.)

I don't see any campaign against CONTRACEPTIVES, I see a campaign against ABORTIFACIENTS, which are only one type of BIRTH CONTROL.

Oral 'contraceptives' may also be abortifacients and it's their abortion-causing potential that is found objectionable.

IF they succeeded in their campaign against ABORTIFACIENTS (a very BIG 'IF'), we'd be back to the early sixties in terms of BIRTH CONTROL: no ABORTIFACIENTS, only CONTRACEPTIVES. That would not be the end of the world for women. The 'barrier' and spermicidal CONTRACEPTIVES work very well if used properly and consistently, and they don't pose health risks for women as both the pill and IUD do. But I doubt the pill and IUD will be banned -- too much profit in them for the pharmaceutical industry.

Any woman who encounters a pharmacist who won't fill her prescription for birth control pills, and has no other nearby pharmacist, should stock up on condoms and spermicidal foam and use both properly every time she has sex, or just not have sex at all until she gets back on the pill -- it's her CHOICE. If a woman can't get a prescription filled, she has to make a CHOICE either to take other steps to prevent pregnancy or to have unprotected sex and try to blame it on the pharmacist if an unplanned pregnancy results. The first choice is the intelligent, adult choice.

[SolaceoftheLotus]

208. Seriously, here, people.....

Chill.

They're not going to just flat-out outlaw contraceptives. AGAIN, TECHNICALLY a pharmacist has the right to refuse to give out a contraception..... You don't have a "right" to drugs....

The birth controll pill/contraceptive market is so large, that it will never be stopped completely. Not when the pharmaceutical companies are still feeding money into the government.

They WANT you to be on birth control.

And some of you hit the nail on the head....The pro-lifers aren't going to outlaw something that could prevent contraception in the first place, because that would hurt their cause when there are rising abortion rates....

[MsTryska]

191. i think it might be time to start picketing those pharmacies.

just stand there with a sign - maybe jsut off their property line, with a sign saying soemthing like -

"This pharmacy steals prescription"


"this pharmacy won't give you your meds"


"This pharmacy doens't support your health"


"fill your prescription at so and so down the street"

[Zinfandel]

193. Take women back to the 1950's-control women, point the finger and scorn

women who then become pregnant out of "wed-lock"...(Sex & the City must drive these fuckers crazy). Trying to stop porn, we ALL know how sick and uptight the republicans are about sex, Clinton's dick. These republican fundamentalist even hate and have tried to stop the use of condoms.

More babies, become more consumers, and unwanted babies, will these republican offer ways to care for them...NO...Just control and say no sex...These same perverted republicans can't mind their own fucking business...

More unwanted children also means more abortions, the republicans like R-Dr.Senator Bill Frist have made a fortune on preforming abortions and then use the issue to get huge amounts of political donations from the anti-choice morons as well as using the issue to get the same masses out to vote republican...

Just pick one item from above...And its republican bullshit tactics and control no matter how one looks at it...

[Zinfandel]

195. KICK!

Kick! Twice again..

:kick: :kick:

[Tigress DEM]

196. NO MORE LIES! Those Pharmacists should have a WARNING Label.

If you aren't going to fill a prescribed medication, don't call yourself a pharmacist. It's a LIE.

Herbal cures can't state what they cure, so if a pharmacist is going to pick and choose what prescriptions he fills it should be somewhere on a HUGE sign, so they can lose the business of people who see through the sham of what they are doing.




http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1966840&mesg_id=1966840

[neverforget]

204. The Democrats could campaign on this issue because everyone loves

sex, excluding, of course, the Christian Fundies who want to control your life.

[SolaceoftheLotus]

206. Umm......

Technically, you don't actually have a "right" to any drugs. If a pharmacy doesn't want to stock them,they don't have to

But regardless....Are you sure this was specifically ONLY birth control and not the morning after pill? I've heard of pharmacies refusing to give out the morning after pill because of the chances of dangerous reactions/side effects.