Interesting Dialogue with a Freeper

[Steely_Dan]

Hello All:

This may be a little long. However, I thought it entertaining and wanted to share it with you.

My wife breeds Yorkies and made contact with another breeder somewhere in the midwest. My wife uses my email account and so I cannot help but run into email intended for her. Somehow this woman in the midwest placed my email on her mass email list. She sends out a variety of emails, most of which, are filled with hate and intollerance.

At first I simply ignored them. I didn't think it was worth responding to her. However, after one of her emails stated without hesitation that Islam was evil and that they all wanted to "kill us" while another stated that democrats are low-life...I couldn't resist.

The following our exchange:

My email to her:
--------------------------
Hello:

I am one of the people who receives your emails on a regular basis. I have
hesitated to write back to you regarding the kind of material you send.
However, the last few emails that have come from your keyboard have caused
me concern and I feel that I can no longer resist the temptation to express
myself.

Madam, you are sending out material and points of view that are not only
intolerant and mean spirited, but they do not reflect what I believe Jesus
would find acceptable.

Apparently you believe that anyone that does not share your point of view is
“bad” or evil (or at least “un-American). It may surprise you to realize
that contrary to popular belief, The Constitution was not written for the
“majority.” Indeed, it was written to protect that lone voice of decent to
popular opinion. This means that in America, we endeavor to tolerate those
that we may not agree with. This is what makes America great.

While I may disagree with your point(s) of view, I will always defend your
right to express them in a free society.

But that is not what my email is about. My email to you is to express my
concern that you are spreading hatred and intolerance to other people. Your
intolerance is a reflection of your fear and your inability to see the world
beyond “black and white.” In your world, there is no grey. Things are
either good or evil.

In your world, the killing of thousands of innocent citizens in Iraq is
justified even though this country never attacked us and was never a threat.
It was Osama Bin Laden who sponsored 9/11 and he remains free.

In your world, anyone that is not a Republican is simply “wrong” and is a
part of the problem, not the solution.

In your world, anyone who is not a Christian is evil and is a threat to you
and your belief system.

The last time I checked, Jesus meant “love.” I honestly believe that you
have forgotten that. Your hatred of anyone who is not like yourself is NOT
Christian-like and I believe that Jesus would not approve. Isn’t God the
father of ALL people regardless of their background or social standing? I
believe He is.

I am a proud Democrat that has served my country in war. I am no less
American than you and I am certainly no less patriotic. For you to judge
and label me is simply wrong and intellectually lazy. You cannot begin to
fathom my love for this country and what it stands for.

The Christian community has often been criticized for being “judgmental.”
Madam, you are furthering that horrible stereotype with your intolerant
emails. You do not hold a monopoly on what is “good” and “righteous.” If
this world is to ever survive, it requires our ability to educate ourselves
on the issues and not base our beliefs on half-truths and fear tactics.

Unfortunately, it appears to be easier to attack someone than it is to try
and understand them.

I do not pretend to know all the answers. That is not within my ability and
is only for God to know. However, I do know that we do not further peace
when we express hate and intolerance for our fellow man.
-----------------------
Her response:
-----------------------
You Madam do not understand the teaching of the Bible... I am only pointing out the differences between the teaching of the Bible as to the teaching of other religions... I'm am against Abortions.. and Gay marriages.. as I stand with the word of God.. If you have even read the Bible? God is one of Love but there is also Judgement... I'm intolerant of the killing of people just because they don't think the way you do or I do.. the Muslim religion in there teachings teach killing of a non believer will give you a free pass to heaven.. They keep saying the Mexican's should be stopped coming into our country.. They and 99.9 percent of Christian faith.. They will not blow up your children on a bus!!! Jesus him self and spoke of the deceptions of this world.. and to be careful not to let them dwell among you lest you be deceived.. I love the Muslim and the gay person.. as well.. as Christ loved the Church.. But you have to be aware that you or you family won't be on the receiving end of A BOMB.... My son who was in
Bosnia told me that there were Muslins and Christians sharing a garden space for 20 yrs.. When the up rising happened ..Guess what ?? that Muslin who'd shard food with these Christians for all those yrs Butchered the Whole Family!! Feeling NO remorse!!As his Koran told him this had guaranteed his place in heaven... There are many good Muslin people that don't agree with that teaching of the Koran.. But are they saying that so people don't attack them as it says in their own Koran that they can lie to a non believer and not receive punishment for doing so..>> Be as NIEVE as you want as we were before 911 or do you feel as what the Liberals are saying we deserved what we got..? If that is so then Madam.. You move to another country as I stand with the rightes people of our country.. as with the election of G.W. Bush proved there are more like us than like you! I try not to send things to cause hate of anyone but it's stupidity not to be aware of the world.. England is now experiencing their own 911.. Now the Muslin Masks are being threatened by people who are worried that they are stirring up these radical factions to do the awful thing that just happened.. when it's on your door step you'll have and eye opening experience..No other religious faction is attacking our freedoms and when looking for a bomber suspect.. It's not a 80 yr old grandma it's a middle east typ looking person.. and God Help us if they are stupid enough to do it in this country.. I can see people attacking innocent people that look like the middle eastern people.. let them blow up a school and see the out rage of our people against them for the color of their skin or their place of birth.. They are all ready experencing it in England.. I want to see all people save though our Lord Jesus Christ.. onto heaven.. I sin everyday.. and know I do many thing wrong.. But God know's my heart and it was not ment to cause hurt to anyone.. but to be aware.. If this offends you, fine you will no longer receive email.. that's fine as we all have to find our own way in this world.. I asked Jesus to bless you and keep you always..
------------------
Her PS:
------------------
PS... I use to be a Dem. till they started the policy of butchering our babies for convenience and oking gay marriage.. Maybe you'd better read God's word on that.. God said if you love me you will follow my word and not that of the world.. Taking God and what this country was built on out of our Goverment..~~!! They butchered the Sivley girl starved her to death.. Was that right according to the Dem. policy's as how they vote it dose??? I don't want to be in that boat when I have to answer to God~~ there is a high power than your own thought process or that of the liberal faction... One of the latest legasey for our Children from Mr. Clinton was oral sex is not sex.. Do you also believe that..? Well, now 99 percent of teenages and young people do??? That's LIBERALS!!!! daming our children to hell for your loose morals.. Then Kerry... What were you thinking!!!!! PUKE!!!! TED Kennedy>>murderer!!! PUKE and they are to dictate to us?? Don't think so and with next election we'll get rid of more of them too.. Our big challenge is to get conservitive Judges into place to turn this country around!! Judges that will rule according to the consitution.. not to their own thought~~~! HOW EVER YOU VOTE IS THE BOAT YOUR IN THAT YOU WILL BE JUDGE BY GOD.. YOU VOTE FOR ABORTION BY VOTING FOR THE LIBERAL VALUES.. WHICH SO FAR I DON'T SEE .. WHEN I VOTED DEM.. THERE WERE SOME MORALS LEFT IN THE PARTY.. BUT THEIR GIVE AWAY PROGRAMS.. ARE BREAKING THE BACKS OF THE WORKING PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.. GOD SAID...IF YOU DON'T WORK... YOU DON'T EAT.. THERE ARE MANY OUT THERE ON WELFARE THAT CAN WORK BUT DONT!!! I'M SICK OF SUPPORTING THAT SYSTEM.. WE CAN'T TAKE CARE OF OUR SENIORS BECAUSE OF ALL THE GIVE AWAY.. AND GUESS WHO PUT THE SOCIAL SECURITY FUND INTO THE GENERAL FUND.....LBJ!!! SO, WHEN EVER I LOOK TO SEE WHO'D DONE MORE TO BENIFIT THE WORKING GROUP OF AMERICAN.. AND HOLD UP MOPAL ISSURES...IT ISN'T THE DEM... FOR SURE... THE ONLY TAX RELEIFE WE'VE SEEN HAS BEEN AT THE HAND OF A REPUB. PRESIDENT... I'M NOT HAPPY WITH EVERYTHING THEY DO BUT YOUR LAST DEM PRESIDENT WAS A PIG.!! TORE OUR COUNTRY TO SHREDS.. THE MILITARY WHICH AT THAT TIME MY SON WAS IN SAID CLINTION HAD CUT THE MIL. BUDGET SO BADLY WHEN TEST FIRING THE TANKS THEY HAD TO PUT THEM ON A TRAILER AT TAKE THE TO THE FIRING RANGE HAD ONE SHELL TO PRICTICE WITH AND THEN BACK ON TRAILER BACK TO STORAGE!! THE SHORTAGE OF BULLET PROOF EQUIPMENT IS DUE TO THOSE CUTS THAT THE LIBERALS TRY TO BLAME ON THE NOW PRESIDENT.. I KNOW DIFFERENTLY.. DON'T THINK YOUR TALKING TO SOMEONE WHO DOSEN'T KNOW~~~!! I THANK GOD FOR THE GODLY MAN WE HAVE IN OFFICE NOW... WHAT A JOB HE HAS TO DO... PRAY FOR HIM EVERYDAY...


SO WHO EVER YOU ARE.. SLEEP WELL.. I DO.. AS I KNOW IF GOD IS FOR YOU NO ONE CAN STAND AGAINST YOU! OUR COUNTRY HASN'T LASTED THIS LONG DO TO LIBERAL VALUES IT'S THE CHRISTIAN VALUES THAT HAVE HELD US TOGETHER.. THE CONSTITUION WILL NOT WORK FOR AND UNGODLY PEOPLE THAT DON'T FOLLOW HIS WORD... IT'S A PROVEN FACT!
----------------

I'll keep you posted on future emails...

-Paige

[SteppingRazor]

1. See, I knew there was something wrong the minute I read the headline...

"interesting dialogue with a freeper"

I mean, let's be honest. Is there really such a thing?

[Jacobin]

72. oxymoron

or is it 'moran'?

[MaraJade]

73. Nope--just plain moron...

Did you get a load of the SPELLING and the syntax? Sheesh!

[hootinholler]

82. and the stuck shift key n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Just tell her that you can be a liberal non-literalist Christian.. that

should make her head explode.

And if she comes back as saying you aren't a real Xian, just tell her.. "LORD, I didn't know you had returned already!"

They hate it when we call them on being judgmental.. emphasis on the mental bit.

[Midlodemocrat]

3. It is so full of grammatical and spelling errors, I can't read it.

What a moran.

[lilymidnite]

4. scary.

Idiotic, uneducated fool. Part of the elevation of anti-intellectualism.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

5. You call that "interesting"?

I call it "looking into the charred, blackened soul of a bigot".

And I call BS on the whole "I used to be a Dem" shit, too.

[Dora]

12. I second that BS motion

If it smells like a lie and sounds like a lie...

[Lars39]

6. She's incoherant in her delusions.

I don't think I'd be too thrilled if she knew where I lived.

[tilsammans]

7. What an . . .

. . . illiterate, ill-informed nincompoop!

:dunce:

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. "...it's stupidity not to be aware of the world.."

Indeed :crazy:

[Cassandra]

9. Where does God say that if you don't work you don't eat...

not to mention Jesus? That woman's been fed so much propaganda over the years she can't even pull her brains together anymore.

[momisold]

22. II Thes. 3:10

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."

I'm just sayin'.

[Cassandra]

40. Oh, Paul..

well, that explains that.

[calimary]

62. Welcome to DU!

Thanks for the quote. Paul. Figures. If he were alive today, he'd have his own show on the Pox "news" channel.

[MaraJade]

74. Just to show one how STUPID this woman is. . .

Welfare recipients have to work at least 20 hours a week (or be in some form of vocational/college training) to collect
any form of assistance. This has been the case since 1995 (to the best of my knowledge.

Guess who put this in place? Clinton! Not some rightwing-nut--

[antonialee839]

10. Don't you love how 99% of them tell you

they used to be a Dem? She may as well have said she used to be human. I guess we will just have to wait and see what Jesus thinks of all this hate spewing, small minded thinking.

[Ian David]

11. Ask her for permission to share her email address. n/t

[xilet]

13. Dropping IQ

This is one of those letters that just makes you question that persons sanity, and then you realize you actully die a little inside reading that kind of filth.

[calimary]

65. Welcome to DU!

Good that you're here! We need you! BTW, I often regard DU as an anti-toxin for some of this spew.

[Raksha]

95. Ya know, I wonder if it really is mentally and spiritually toxic...

...even to read this kind of stuff (let alone think it). I started reading the moran's reply and couldn't get through it. Overexposure, maybe? For the past 10 years, ever since I got a computer with a modem, I've been a regular on various Interfaith discussion boards, and I've read REAMS of that kind of drivel! "God is a God of love (they always dismiss that part as fast as they can), but also a God of JUDGMENT!"

That's where I stopped reading the OP. I just couldn't deal with that assertion AGAIN. I couldn't even stand to read it one more time, let alone think about it. God, if I had a dollar for every time some fundie threw that one in my face...

But more than that, there really does seem to be something toxic about the repeated exposure to that kind of thinking. It feels like what you said--you die a little bit inside! It's almost enough to make me believe in the existence of an actual demonic power--something the fundies' arguments themselves could never do.

[Richard Steele]

104. YES it is! It's like holding your face over a bucket of toxic waste.

Not as directly poisnous as DRINKING the stuff,
but the fumes alone cause long-term effects that can linger forever.

[wurzel]

14. Sounds like she is really sick of being a Christian.

She doesn't want to turn the other cheek. She wants to cast stones at sinners. She hates the poor. She has contempt for the sermon on the mount. But she sure wants "crucify" someone.

[formerrepuke]

15. Should be titled "encounter with schizophrenic semi-literate religious

fanatic"... Actually, "Freeper" is perfectly suitable.

[Otm Shank]

16. Others have rightly condemned this crackpot's response,

but no one has complimented you yet for the style and grace with which you reached out to this person.

Kudos!

:hi:

[jackster]

23. I agree - well done...

Steely_Dan.

I'd love to hear your response.

Might it go something like this...

"It took me some time to read and fully comprehend your letter as it was so poorly written and filled with the most horrible grammar! Of course, you are a typical 21st century Republican, ignorant and unable to reason. Therefore, I see no use in wasting my time corresponding with you as it will only increase my blood pressure (albeit a good laugh can be beneficial) knowing that it was citizens such as yourself that destroyed our democracy.

Now you have a good day!"

[Otm Shank]

27. I'd just bounce the message back to her...

...and bounce any subsequent messages. That keeps the proverbial ball in her court perpetually.

[babylonsister]

26. Welcome to DU, Otm Shank, and I agree; the OP's

reasoned e-mail is great but I couldn't get through the nonsensical response.

[Otm Shank]

31. It's literally disturbing

I feel unsettled from reading the response.

And thanks for the welcome! :)

[calimary]

64. Welcome to DU! Yes, it was a WUNNNderful reply, I must say.

Far more honest and compassionate and filled with understanding than the irrational, judgmental, hate-filled recipient deserved. Glad you're here with us! Now get to work.


Visualize IMPEACHMENT.
Pass it on...

[Pool Hall Ace]

17. Who is the Sivley girl who was butchered by the Democrats?

Google doesn't turn up anything.

If I become a Gawd-blessed Republican, will I see some tax relief? Because I don't know what she is talking about.

What an incoherent bunch of crap.

[truth2power]

32. I think she meant Terri Schiavo.

Doesn't she know how to use paragraphs?

[Pool Hall Ace]

34. It's hard to use paragraphs when you have one long sentence.

Everything is connected by ellipses . . . that's so annoying . . . It's actually more work . . . why bother? . . . It's okay to just end a sentence with a period . . . really . . . no one will mind . . .

Oh, Sively / Schiavo -- yeah, that's close enough. :eyes:

I supposed God sanctions this pre-emptive war against a country that has not attacked us.

[teenagebambam]

37. Surely you remember the Sivley girl

What are you, NIEVE?

[Pool Hall Ace]

46. OMG I am such a looser.

How can I be such a moran!!1! :rofl:

You would think Miss Freeper would have seen the name SCHIAVO in print often enough that she could remotely spell it!

[mazzarro]

18. This is hard to read!

She was rambling incoherently. No wonder she is lost is the dungeon of her ignorance and stupidity. I doff my hat to you for being able to endure reading thru this type of trash.

[ohtransplant]

19. Jarring!

but this is truly what must be dealt with. There are too many faux-xians with blinders poor educations, and an e-mail account.

It's a commentary on our institutions. They're failing us. Ignorance and fear have led us where we are today.

[hippiegranny]

20. wow, this is some serious brain damage.

what in (insert deity here)'s name is this person on? I think I'd write and tell her that thanks to her, I'd had an epiphany and would forward her words of wisdom to everyone I knew.

[MN ChimpH8R]

21. Raving, barking

bat$hit crazy. Nuttier than a tree full of squirrels. :scared:

[belle]

91. And really, really stupid. Not worth trying to talk to. Maybe...

a pop-up book...

[LibertyLover]

24. Freeper email

I tried, I honestly tried, to read her response to your very well-reasoned and written homily. But, aside from the capitalized screaming, the incoherent reasoning, the shear stupidity, the blind-faith in her version of Christianity and the grandiose display of no knowledge whatsoever of the topics she was discussing, her inability to write correctly and spell drove me to frustration. I am so sorry that you have suffered through her e-mail screeds. You are a much better person than I am - I would have told her where to go and how fast to do about a New York minute after the first e-mail.

[Steely_Dan]

51. Yeah...

It was hard not to go off on her. But I thought that it would not serve my purposes....etc.etc.

-P

[madmom]

25. ask her if the repugs are so anti-abortion....

then why have they not done something about it in the 5 years they've been in total control? They won't because it's a wedge issue. Then what happened to all the money that was sent to arm our soldiers since the war started. The dems voted against it but they got it anyway, they never tell you that. Where did it go?

[Rainscents]

28. This woman needs help badly. I don't know, if there's anything out on the

market can help with this woman... She is un-educated and psychotic. I would stay the hell away from people like her. After reading her letter, she sounds like one that calls in on C-Span and go on and on about how Bush is her man. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Spelling correction.

[mzteris]

29. sadly

this is pretty typical of those types. I hear it all the time... God help us all.

[Steely_Dan]

52. Frightening, Isn't It?

[Lexingtonian]

30. tell her

Medieval times, or in any case the Nineteenth Century, have been over for a while, and she can try all she wants but she isn't going to get them back.

Modernity is hard to adjust to. Many never will.

[The Sleeper]

33. It is an interesting response....

It shows how their brains work....a brain numbing string of garbled RW talking points that have nothing to do with reality.


What a perfect spokesperson for the RNC. Sign her up quick !!!

[calimary]

66. Welcome to DU! Yeah, it does look like she's just spewing crap

she heard from the dittoheads who call in to spew the crap they just heard from their god, limbaugh. Reminds me of a great bumper sticker I saw a few days ago: "Dear God, save me from your followers!"

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

35. Are they acting in the name of Jesus when

they turn their backs on the poor?
argue for war policies that slaughter innocent children?
deny families maternity leave and health care?
repeatedly lie about why we are at war?
promote a culture of coveting thy neighbors' possessions?
refuse respect for anyone who feels differently then they do?
lie about being anti-abortion, when, in reality, they desire to do
nothing about it?
try to deny the free will God gave us all by telling us what is
acceptable to say, believe, and do?
position their friends for multi-billion dollar contracts that
steal from taxpayers?
promote policies that deny children the pursuit of happiness?
teach revenge as foreign policy?

Are they acting in the name of America when
they curtail constitutional rights and liberties?
promote monoplies over free and open competition?
deny the backbone of the country--the worker--a working wage?
deny voters the right to vote?
reveal national secrets to the press, putting our nation's
intelligence community at risk?
destroy our nation's credibility in the eyes of the world?
raze our homeland's natural resources?
pollute our country's mountains, streams, and lakes?
fail to take basic measures at shipyards and ports of entry to secure
our nation from terrorists, because doing so is politically and
financially difficult?
weaken the nation financially by running up tremendous debt?
behave like traitors by denying veterans the benefits they deserve?


Just asking.




(ed for sp)

[Steely_Dan]

53. Great List....

I'm thinking of sending her your list...is that okay????

-Paige

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

86. absolutley. Sorry it took me so long to reply.

--Dave

[quisp]

36. bizarre -

totally disconnected from reality. She doesn't her politics and the policies of her beloved Duh'bya and she sure doesn't know her Bible.

really pitiful

[getmeouttahere]

38. That last sentence or two...

"OUR COUNTRY HASN'T LASTED THIS LONG DO TO LIBERAL VALUES IT'S THE CHRISTIAN VALUES THAT HAVE HELD US TOGETHER.. THE CONSTITUION WILL NOT WORK FOR AND UNGODLY PEOPLE THAT DON'T FOLLOW HIS WORD... IT'S A PROVEN FACT!"

Proven fact, my ass! That's hilarious. But how does she explain a country like, say, Canada, who does quite well despite its "liberal" values???

[Cassandra]

43. Democracy...

is a very liberal value.

[ollie79]

39. Wow

My goodness if this is what the public schools are putting out these days; I might get behind charter schools.

[mntleo2]

41. Perhaps You should Ask Her From Me

Either this person is not reading the same Bible or she is skipping the essential teachings of her prophet Jesus...

I am also a christian and the *only* description of what God looks like is this: "God is Love..." I do not see anything in that description of God as being ~ or looking ~ judgmental. As a matter of fact, another Bible quote is: "Judge ye not lest ye be judged..." Why does her kind seem to care only about babies in the womb? Does she really believe starving, jailing, torturing and killing others, especially non-christians, is ok even though this is not what Jesus taught? If she thinks this, she might read the parable of the Good Samaritan where a nonbeliever was the one closer to God than the so-called "devout" who passed their own by after he had been beaten, robbed and left to die. And finally, why doesn't she and her people seem to care that her government care as much about people who are out the womb unless they are very rich? She might then read the story of the rich man and what Jesus told him: "It is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven then for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle..."

Another thing this woman needs to do because her ignorance is showing BAD. She might read some history about Jesus' times and some writings from Christians that are not included in the Bible. I would suggest several: One is called "The Apostolic Fathers". These are writings of early christians that the Nicene Council eliminated from what is now our New Testament. Tell her these were MEN that made these decisions, not a bunch of saints, even though her kind would like to believe they did not even take a pee much less be human. As a matter of fact they were powerful men, friends of King Constantine, the most powerful man in the world at that time. They cared nothing at all about the people and more for their own gain. Like eliminating Polycarp's letters the third pope from our NT. Polycarp was a dear friend and wrote letters to the Apostle Peter who I am sure this woman knows was one of Jesus' closest friends. Polycarp taught reincarnation as part of the Christian doctrine. Why did they make this decision to eliminate Peter's dear Friend and confidant's teachings? These so-called "saints" said they were afraid people would not obey their mandates, so they simply eliminated him. They were more concerned with their power over people and did not have enough faith in the Apostle's teachings to allow them to be! Some of these books from the Apostolic Fathers are quite remarkable.

The Apostolic Fathers is online if she Googles it. She can read the whole thing. Then look at those Christians within the context of their times and culture. It was a brutal, judgmental and hateful world for Jews and others at this time and like today, the rich were the ones who were considered "pious" because they could actually afford all the trappings of their religion. Jesus did not have good things to say about these wealthy entitled ones, he often ridiculed them. The rich were not whom Jesus spent most of his time with however. He spent His time with the common folk and told people we should have the openness, the vulnerability and the humbleness of little children, something judgmental, entitled thinking people could never imagine and will never be.

Lastly, especially in light of what she has to say about her selective sanctity of life, what makes her so sure what Jesus would say about abortion? There is no mention of abortion once by Him. There is an ancient and persistent belief from his time and culture that the soul does not enter the body until just before birth, not at conception. The Great Physician, especially Someone Who had a special relationship with God, more likely than not would have addressed this since abortion was done as a medical procedure then as now. For instance, His labeling of "sin" to the prostitute who he encountered by the well did not include abortion ~ only that she had five husbands. Does your wife's friend think that with the lack of reliable birth control then that a prostitute, who had many partners more than several times a day, did not get pregnant 2000 years ago????

Just a few thoughts....

My two cents...

Cat In Seattle

[Steely_Dan]

54. Excellent Post

I will do a little research myself....

Thanks for the post.

-Paige

[Coexist]

58. and then there's the whole idiom thingie re: camels and needles...

" This can also explain some sayings which are difficult to interpret, for example, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Some who are familiar with the Aramaic tell us that the word for "camel" and "rope" in Aramaic are very similar. We have to admit that it makes more sense to say that it is easier for a rope to go through the eye of a needle than to say that about a camel. "Rope" fits better in the context as well as with the custom of women in referring to coarse thread as rope. This is but one example of the difficulty of idioms. It may shed some light on Paul's thorn in the flesh, too. Idioms make for interesting study."

http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/wcketcherside/mm/mm30_06b.html

[Arkansas Granny]

42. People like this just scare the socks off me.

You cannot have a rational discussion with people who feel this way. They truly believe that these hate filled, bigoted viewpoints are Christian values.

[JaneQPublic]

44. Your letter was very well written.

It was a pleasure to read.

As for the response... not so much.

[Steely_Dan]

55. Thanks...

[kitkat65]

45. All the more need for a better health care system - lithium patch anyone?

Nothing's more hopeless than duh-bating someone like this.

[aspberger]

47. These types long for the middle ages

They miss the times when people were illiterate, they had the comfort of the Inquisition, and the local church dominated every aspect of life. Also personal hygiene wasn't a high priority. Maybe that is why a freeper just seems to have a foul odor.

[SunDrop23]

48. What a kook...***

[earth mom]

49. Yup, these are the wackos we are dealing with...

God-if there is one-help us all. :eyes:

[Steely_Dan]

50. Here is an additional reply from her....

Here is an additional emil that I received from her this afternoon...
----------------------

Have you read the Bible??? God says, not to be of the world but to judge all things according to his word.. You are not to Judge people but can their Actions.. as we all fall short.. Iraq is the beginning of the end.. every war from now on will be over Israel If God's word says not to do something.. If you Love God you don't do it~~~! Also look at What Jesus said.. When I come back again it will as the days of Noah.. READ them text...... But this will mean nothing to someone that dosen't read the word or try to understand what is being said.. BE NOT OF THIS WORLD.. don't do things because the WORLD say's it's OK..
No one want's war~~~! you'd be a fool to want War... But I think the right thing was done as we are in end times... As according to Gods word we are at the point of Jesus return.. His word is being spread all over the world and many of the Muslins are being converted and many are seeing visions of Jesus .. WE need a revival in our country to get back to the basic of the Bible as the Ten Comandments say to do... Every one sins and falls short... I love a gay person and have several friends that have had abortions and I love them.. Jesus loves them... But it was wrong.. I do things every day that are wrong~~~! Thank Jesus I'm washed in his Blood..... I'm no different than you.. I know you want the right thing for your country.. but it has to be right with God to be right.. we can't go by what is tollerated or what other say.. Why do you think this country has lasted as long as it has??? It's because of the blood shed in other lands to free the and break the bondages of other.. NO greater gift can a man give than to lay down his life for another... I know each of our precious souls lost in war are with our father in heaven... many say that the lives lost is awful the live lost in an abortions office every day is 4000 justify that!

It's really bad as in end time it says they will call right wrong and wrong right... Guess what .. WE ARE THERE!

[Coexist]

57. ooh - she's a'bringin' end times into it now...

you poor thing, was she a friend?

[ikri]

81. I'd ask if she has understood the Bible

Since to have any claim to be the Jewish Messiah, Jesus had to fulfill certain prophecies. Since he was thought to do so, he was thought by many to be that mesiah....

One of the most important prophecies that he was to fulfill was the overturning of the 10 commandments. Following the teachings of Jesus and to get back to the basic of the Bible as the Ten Commandments say to do are incompatible and if anyone believes that they are compatible, they've missed the whole point of the new testament.

But I'd not worry too much about getting many more replies, from her writing I'd suggest that her head is about 1 "clinton!" from exploding.

[mntleo2]

83. End Times ~ When Is This????

You might then remind her to read the story of Jonah. Jonah is not a historical account but a parable. Most people do not read the whole story....they only read the whale part and how God "punished" Jonah for not obeying God's command. The REST OF THE STORY is quite interesting because it is relevant to today in so many ways.

Jonah was the guy who was swallowed by a whale because he refused to tell the king of Nineveh (ironically in Iraq) that his kingdom was going to be destroyed because they were not obeying God's law. The rest of the story is that after he was regurgitated up on dry land, Jonah went to Nineveh and spent three days telling the people of Nineveh about what was going to happen because of their evil ways. When he reached the king he came before the court and told the king what he had told the others. It was not cool to tell kings such things and Jonah had every right to believe it was his last day on earth for uttering such criticism of the king's policies. Instead a miraculous thing happened: the king heard Jonah's words and believed him. He removed his royal robes and put on mourning clothes and he mourned for his country that they had strayed so far from the truth. He ordered everyone to put away the things of destruction and begin to follow the word of God. So Nineveh was saved from destruction.

But Jonah was not happy about that. He got mad at God because God made him look like a fool in his mind. He had gone through all that trouble to prophecy something God told him to do and then nothing had happened. No fire and brimstone, no horrible death, no floods, nothing! Why did God put him through all that for nothing? So Jonah went out into the desert and sat down and pouted. God felt sorry for him, even though Jonah did not seem to get why Nineveh did not face the horrible consequences he had gone through so much trouble to tell them. So God let a palm tree grow to shade Jonah from the hot sun while Jonah sat and pouted.

The reason Nineveh was spared may not have been obvious to Jonah but perhaps it should be to all who hear the story: Why destroy a kingdom when the warnings had been heeded? If they had not listened to God's word, then there maybe there was a need to do something about it, but ignoring the warning was *not* what the king and all his people had done. They had listened to God's word, changed their ways, and lived the way they were supposed to live.

What does this have to do with the prophecy of the end days? Well I think it is obvious: Like Jonah, conservative Christians need to realize the end of the world will never come if they quit pouting, if they stop pointing at others and start loving others. They need to quit worshiping violence and war, it is never the way of love. They need to stop judging others and start looking at themselves, they need to stop their insatiable greed and love of money. They need to love one another, love one's enemies, those are their God's teachings. These are also what the basic teachings of Jesus are. He said so Himself! It is the ones who ignore these teachings, they concentrate on things like sexual behavior as somehow being the "worse" sin when it is not. The worse sin is greed (IMO) because it cause so much destruction, war and greed takes God's resources for hoarding by a few from all the others who need them. By ignoring what greed is doing and obsessing about trivial things, they are the ones who are leading us to destruction. So it is common sense: if we as a nation do not love others, we will face destruction by the ones we have harmed. But if we do God's will and love others, we will never have to face such dire things as the end of the world.....as with Jonah, it is not something that *has* to be.

My two cents

Cat In Seattle

[Wickerman]

87. Cat! That was a fantastic post

welcome to DU. :hi:

you might consider expanding the premise a bit and making it a stand alone thread.

[bobbieinok]

98. end times......religious wrong WANT the end times; they think it's NOW

so your reasoned, loving analysis

...'Like Jonah, conservative Christians need to realize the end of the world will never come if they quit pouting, if they stop pointing at others and start loving others. They need to quit worshiping violence and war, it is never the way of love.'

if they believed what you say here, they would preach violence and war and never love....oh, yeah, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Dobson, et al .....

[Coexist]

56. LOL! Trying to read her response was like trying to read

a Dr. Bronner's label. Incoherent, yet strangely, you can't look away - you have to finish reading it.

THE CONSTITUION WILL NOT WORK FOR AND UNGODLY PEOPLE THAT DON'T FOLLOW HIS WORD... IT'S A PROVEN FACT!" WTF does that mean?!

99% of young people don't believe that oral sex is sex????

What planet does she buy her righteousness on? I want to visit.

[VOX]

59. Are RW talking points designed to be easily regurgitated by whackos?

And are there just more crazy people in the world now???? :shrug:

Through the ranting CAPS and stream of consciousness crap, you can make out all the basic RW talking points: Clinton is bad because he slashed the military and introduced oral sex to kids; * is Godly and gives tax relief, welfare cheats are destroying the country, etc., etc.

There was a time in the not-so-distant past when this kind of insanity was laughable. But not any more -- the Bushistas have found a way to tap into these nutcases. And who better to stay on point than a zealous nutjob?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

60. She mentions having a son.

How did someone with her clearly limited intellectual capabilities figure out how to procreate?

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

67. you got it wrong

she's too stupid to prevent.

[really annoyed]

61. I couldn't even get throught that MESS of an e-mail

Steely_Dan, you were polite and intelligent. Too bad this lady had to reply with such garbage.

Sadly, I've heard it all before.....

I got quite a few e-mails like that from a person I was on a Yahoo group with. That guy still gives me nightmares.

[calimary]

63. Your reply is as elegant and eloquent as hers is ignorant and appalling.

The spelling and syntax errors, the factual errors, the hysteria, frankly, when she writes that she's prayed to Jesus on your behalf, I'd get a shaky feeling from that. I do NOT know or recognize the individual she identifies as Jesus. Don't know who the Hell she's praying to...

And I am a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT and ARDENTLY pro-choice. Which does NOT make me a baby-murderer. Never murdered a single infant in my entire life.

[Raksha]

97. I think maybe you just answered your own question.

>>I do NOT know or recognize the individual she identifies as Jesus. Don't know who the Hell she's praying to...<<

Don't know who in HELL she's praying to? I suspect it's the head honcho!

[DemGa]

68. Wow, her reply got Louder AND LOUDER

[upoceg]

69. ummm....

i understood what you wrote.

[rumpel]

70. She must have been hyperventilating, lack of oxygen in the brain can

sometimes make you incoherent.

What is NIEVE? Could it be NAIVE?

While the rant is difficult to read I think I get the crux of her point or points.

Yet, I would like to know why Kerry had to puke, and Ted Kennedy murdered the puke?

just kidding.

She is tired of sharing with others, because there are no people who get into hardship, say for instance serious illness, they are lazy, or people who lost their job due to corporate mergers and can't find another, but thank God, "the Godly Man" in the oval office will dictate his moral values because he says he speaks to God, and it is therefore ok to lie.

Isn't it ironic that we are now fighting "religious extremists".

[dean_dem]

99. What is NIEVE?

Perhaps she meant Steve Neive? After all, he was a pretty good keyboardist.

[Jade Fox]

71. These people's rant's are all alike.....

That is what is so scary about them. They are clearly getting the same
talking points from all their conservative sources.

[Skittles]

75. that is one sick, twisted woman

:puke:

[rumpel]

76. She is one of many victims of a possibly deliberate and systematic

destruction of access to quality education, which resulted in her susceptibility to brainwashing. She may be living in a region where only one-sided point of views are broadcast every day.

Something has to be done about people being so dis informed. Al Franken spoke at Conyers hearing, saying that people like Rush are broadcasting outright lies, it is also well documented to have occurred in places of worship. Remember also it was GOP election strategy.

Now normally, when we hear something, we do employ a technique called critical thinking.
However, when there is no foundation blocks in place, we can not draw conclusions from those blocks of pro and con within, it is just absorbed "as-is".

I also do understand that for many people, the mass hysteria created by the Bush propaganda machine must have driven such fear into some of us, so that they had to cling onto a father figure, anyone, someone who has the ultimate power to make it better and make it go away.
It is a gross abuse of the emotionally or intellectually weaker among us. Psy-Op they called it, marketing of the war on terror.

Unfortunately, these illusions are powerfully (9/11) and deeply ingrained and periodically reinforced by design. She obviously believes it is the "end of time". This is how some cope with extreme stress and helplessness. How sad in a sense, I can not imagine myself waiting for the ultimate destruction of Earth and believe it to be for the betterment of All.
What deep and constant suffering.

I personally have a problem with the personification of God, which creates a tendency in some to explain away everything as: It was Gods will, God will decide what is best, which implies inevitability placing so much beyond our control and responsibility, and as she quotes "You have to follow my word", which for some prevents critical thought. No wonder we have a "Godly" character in the WH whose word is absolute for her.
Would she share food with a Dem neighbor, she sounds like she is ready to bring a shotgun instead. No difference to Kosovo she sites as an example.

What does it take to undue the damage? Perhaps we must not ridicule, (guilty as charged) no-one wants to be told he or she is lacking intellect, this will only bring resentment and enforces her conviction that anyone who does not believe in her brainwashed version of the Bible is "evil".
Perhaps we must find a way to gently introduce the truth one snippet at a time in dialogue.
However there is no dialogue with someone who is in such a hysteric state as her.
Which makes me think, why are so many of them hysterical? Forceful and hateful. Is it fear? The feeling of having lost control? Is it feelings of guilt? or is it that deep inside they know they are being controlled?

Perhaps the rude awakening has to come in form of a strong impeachment, or the debunking of a myth by vocalizing and responding firmly to lies and deceit of people like Rush.

My feeling is she has neither read the Koran or any of the Teachings of Buddha. Any religion that preaches to kill and hate could perhaps be called a cult, such as Asahara Shoko's Aum in Japan, likewise I believe Bin Laden uses Islam to mobilize his people for a cause he believes in. But neither Asahara nor Bin Laden stayed true to the teachings of Mohamed or Shakyamuni. Which reminds of another candidate who abuses the minds of people.

Yes, there is need to create true dialogue, but I do not see much hope in this case.

[Swamp Rat]

77. Here she is:

:D

[VOX]

78. Whoa! My nerves just uncoiled! Wow. n/t

[snot]

79. logic ain't going to 'suade her.

She needs love, and she thinks she's getting it from the Repubs.

After elections and media, the third thing we've neglected too long is education reform. This is part of her problem.

But until we reach out to her with respect and love, we're not going to get anywhere, regardless of what else we do.

[belle]

93. Love, yes. In the meantime: short sentences and monosyllables. Sorry.

I dunno. Especially if you've never met the woman in person, I think: maybe leave her to her own devices, such as they are. she's clearly not only illiterate and poorly informed but incapable of critical thinking. she also seems to GET! UPSET!!! far too easily. and doesn't sound terribly nice to boot. I mean, stupid is one thing; crazy is another; and mean another still. all three together and I'd say you've hit the trifecta.

yeah, there are way too many people like that, but not all of them are--not even the Bush-voters. stick to the ones who can string two consecutive thoughts together, at least, especially if you're only writing to them. this one--well, if i were cynical, i'd say just send her regular email-reminders forwarded from a plausible sounding "Christian" group to remember to vote on the first Wednesday in November, and be done with it...

[Le Taz Hot]

80. If anyone ever wondered why

we dumbed down the curriculum, we could hold this woman up as the perfect response. An ignorant populace is much easier to manipulate. THIS is the reason * is pResident. We have a whole freakin' country of people just like her.

[newportdadde]

84. All I can say is WOW.

Just wow. Looks like some pretty crazy religious views masking good old fashioned greed with her welfare comments. I wonder how many times she cheated on her SO or screwed someone over on a dog selling deal?

I'd imagine she would be at the front row back for the burning at the stake.

I just cannot relate to this person. I mean most 'normal' conservatives I get, I may disagree but I get them. This lady is just way way out there.

[musette_sf]

85. I wonder how this intrepid biblical expert

came up with "GOD SAID...IF YOU DON'T WORK... YOU DON'T EAT.. " (which, I suspect, is about as much in the bible as the word "homosexual" is... as in, not at all) --

and missed the part about "Consider the lilies of the field".

Don't get me started, I just got back from Dallas, and the hotel I was at has been hosting a bunch of fundies all week.

[RJRoss]

88. "Reptilian brain" + selective Christianity

yield frightening results. Clearly, the Bush administration's fear tactics have worked on this woman.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0817-13.htm

[HeatherG.]

89. Laura Bush

The lady called Ted Kennedy a murderer, so I guess she hasn't heard that Laura Bush killed someone with her car. Maybe, you should mention this to her. When she refers to democrats as low-lifes, and then tries to pretend she cares about everybody and wants everybody to be saved it doesn't fit. If she thinks non-christians are all going to hell then how can she justify a war that kills thousands of civilians? In her view wouldn't most of these dead civilians now be damned? Ask her why this is okay with her? Ask her why it is okay to end the lives of innocent civilians who according to her have not been saved?

[dean_dem]

90. If I read anymore of that..

..I'll be drooling on my keyboard, but this last sentence was just priceless:

"THE CONSTITUION WILL NOT WORK FOR AND UNGODLY PEOPLE THAT DON'T FOLLOW HIS WORD... IT'S A PROVEN FACT!"

That woman definitely has one twisted view of the Constitution. And so, Clinton is a horrible President for cutting military spending, but Bush gets away with stiffing troops on body armor? Damn freeper logic, sheesh.

[meganmonkey]

92. Muslin! Why can't they spell Muslim? Or even Moslem?

But Muslin? Geeeez...

There are some seriously wacko people out there and they can't even spell their vile crap correctly!!

:crazy:

[tsuki]

94. These people are seriously unhinged. Ignorant true, but mentally

deranged. No wonder we are considered the craziest nation on Earth. I have never met a freep that I could not picture in a bed sheet and pillow case. They have made themselves mad with hate, but always in The Lord's Name. The longer I live, the more I realize, that the core of the Republican Base is the old Klan reborn.

[Ilsa]

96. Destroy her idea of Shrub being "Godly". Shouldn't be too hard. eom

[Gregorian]

100. SOMEONE STEAL THAT WOMAN'S CAPS LOCK KEY.

You know, I can take a certain amount of misspelling, but I cannot tolerate people who are stupid, and yet feel the need to argue. One word sums up this entire group of people- stubborn. Stubborn and wrong are a very bad combination.

I happen to be of religious persuasion. I believe the bible like I believe world war two happened. But I search for ways to incorporate ideas. For example, Christianity and evolution are not mutually exclusive. Exclusion and lack of empathy are what put these types of people in the corner of a very sick little box.


He who is without sin, cast the first stone.

[rniel]

101. Issues with this one little part

"I love the Muslim and the gay person.. as well.. as Christ loved the Church"

I don't really think Christ would think much of these million dollar mega churches. I also think he would be offended at anyone using their religion to make a profit or to gain political power from it. (which is exactly what they do)

[election_2004]

102. She must be Zell Miller's love child

The typical "I-support-FMA-but-I'm-still-a-Democrat" drone.

[ronnykmarshall]

103. What a "rythmes w/ stunt".

[Gyre]

105. Bone up on your weapons training.

These people are serious, and nuts!

Gyre

[KBlagburn]

106. You should post her email addy; Seriously