Before everybody screams "Foul"

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

Yes, there are irregularities in Clermont County, but it's a county the no Democrat has come even remotely close to winning in a generation. And considering the experience of 2004, I'm sure there are poll watchers by the busload at the County Board of Elections -- so unless the Hackett Campaign lodges a complaint, let's just assume that Schmidt won on the up-and-up.

And while we do that, let's acknowledge that in one of the most conservative districts in the county and in a referendum on the Bush Administration, Paul Hackett received at least 48% of the vote. I know the guy who campaigned againt Portman in the last two (maybe three) elections, and he barely received half that response. Tonight was a great night for Paul Hackett and for the Democratic Party.

Four months ago, while I was still living in Cincinnati, I would have said any Democrat running in the Ohio 2nd CD was on a fools errand. I'd seen Portman's opponents (and Willis Gradison's and Charlie Keating's) get blown away something terrible. With no existing political base -- few people in the area knew Paul Hackett before he entered the primary -- and with little in financial resources to start with -- Hackett mounted an impressive and inspiring campaign.

We now know how to win in conservative areas. Speak the truth. Speak common sense. Talk about the future and what's best about ourselves and our communities, and we can win.

[Rick Myers]

1. I'm holding my breath.

:kick::kick::kick:

[NYCGirl]

2. Terrific post. Thank you for that. NT

[sleipnir]

3. Or Lose by 4%...

Hopefully, more moderate areas will help next election.

Otherwise, a loss is still a loss. And there's not much time left in our game called America.

[GetTheRightVote]

4. Yes, I will speak with sense but I just want my moment to be angry first

:kick:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

9. Aw, let 'er rip!

You know who should be worried? Steve Chabot, who sits in the Ohio 1st CD. His district has the highest percentage of union and African American households of any district currently held by a Republican. He's been a do-nothing Congressman who does nothing but kow-tow to the religious right.

A Paul Hackett close on the west side of Cincinnati would finally get the skeeziks out of Washington and back under the rock from which he came.

[mconvente]

5. Thanks for that indeed

FUCK YOU to the DLC

[SeanQ]

23. Yes!!! :)

[girl gone mad]

24. hear, hear. n/t

[kwolf68]

6. U got it

Just think had this election been in a slighly less Christo-fascist district, Hackett rolls away big...

In a solid Dem district he probably pitches a shutout...he gets ALL votes.

In a moderate district we were smoking cigars 2 hours ago with 60% of the vote.

This was an amazing night and should be a CALL TO ARMS...Hackett has given the Dems their card...DONT BACK DOWN...FIGHT...

[ArkDem]

70. The dog would have caught the rabbit if it hadn't stopped to pee.

[AlGore-08.com]

7. Thank you. Great post.

Nominating it for "Greatest"...

[tomg]

8. Great post and I want to see Hackett

take the district next year.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

13. Schmidt gets one year to screw up in Washington...

the way she screwed up in Columbus. Give Hackett a running start at her, and she's toast.

[flpoljunkie]

10. Schmidt lives in Clermont County, Hackett in Hamilton County.

[ThoughtCriminal]

11. We need more candidates like Paul Hackett

If we can do this in Darkest Red Land, imagine 2006 in Purple Land.

[Catchawave]

22. I heard 5 or 6 Iraqnam vets will be running in

'06....all as Democrats :)

We must do our own DU Fundraisers and bypass the middlemen (DNC, DLC and DCCC) and Support the Troops !

[Pirate Smile]

25. I saw a report on MSNBC - Connected which said 8 Iraqi War vets are

running for Congress (I think that included Hackett) and 7 of the 8 were Democrats.

[kbm8795]

31. I absolutely agree here. . .

One of the things that most made a difference are the netcitizen contributions - and they made all of us feel as if we were part of this campaign. Hackett was not only a great, engaging candidate, but when he opened his mouth you didn't hear a lot of doublespeak - and that is exactly where we need to place our hopes next year.

Even the most conservative wingnut district in the state of Ohio contains people who think and have common sense - and people who are increasingly uneasy about the line of crap being spewed from the wingnut talk radio shows and the absolute ignoring of the American people by the Bush Administration.

If we want to take this country back, it is going to be by addressing what matters directly and WITHOUT apology.

[DinahMoeHum]

57. Don't bypass the DNC. It's now Howard Dean's outfit. . .

and the outfit he established, Democracy For America, did a great deal in promoting Hackett and getting the vote out.

The DNC is in far better hands now than it has been in ages, and Dean is doing exactly the right thing with his "50-state strategy", namely: Don't concede ANY race or state.

As for the DLC, DSCC or DCCC, well, fuck 'em. We now have better ways of putting our hard-earned cash to work on campaigns.

:kick:

[merbex]

12. Your last 3 sentences should be sent to the DLC and emphasize

how it has NOTHING to do with being Repug -lite

Just a true blue fighting Dem

[Bucky]

14. Can I vote twice to recommend this post for front page?

What if I lived in Florida... could I do it then?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

19. ...or Chicago

[Peace Patriot]

42. You only get to vote twice if you are a Republican.

(Well, maybe not at DU.)

[kcass1954]

62. Only if you're dead. n/t

[neuvocat]

15. Agreed.

I understand that area is overwhelmingly republican. If the election were rigged, then why let it look so close over there when it would be less suspicious to let it be overwhelmingly in the "R" column?

Keep in mind, folks, Elad's post regarding voting trends in that area for the last 20 years.

[Peace Patriot]

43. "...why let it look so close..."? For the same reason that our Corporate

Rulers may permit the "election" of a pro-war, pro-global free piracy Democrat in 2008--to fend off election reform, and preserve the fraud capability (secret, proprietary programming code) for Jeb, and for padding the Bush Cartel "pod people" majority in Congress.

(They also need somebody to clean up Bush/Cheney's horrendous messes, and maybe to squeeze a small surplus out of the poorest taxpayers, which they can come in and loot in 2012--oh, and to run the breadlines. Democrats are better at that.)

Note: I understand what this poster is saying. The Hackett campaign is a victory in many ways, getting so close in a rightwing district. But let's not call the election before we know the facts as to the transparency and verifiability of the results. (--even if Hacket has conceded...ahem.)

[lala_rawraw]

60. I agree, it is a victory to be sure...

But Clermont is so corrupt at the county BOE office that there is no way that a race that close could possibly be just a small victory. The man would have wiped the floor with that cow-hide of person and that margin is far too close for my comfort and especially so given Clermont's history.

[spooky3]

16. maybe he should run for Senator or Governor and go statewide

[safi0]

20. Good idea

Let's start a draft Hackett site to draft him to run against Dewine

[mtnester]

48. I am with you on that, and his campaign needs to start TODAY

He could take DeWine if the Ohio Dems AND the DNC start TODAY. Better yet, Governor (sorry Mike Coleman and Ted Strickland)...Setting him up as governor is even better to set him up for any possible future runs at the WH.

While the Repubs are basking in their "skin of the teeth" victory, we ought to crush them NOW with that announcement. NOW.

I am sending a letter to the Hackett campaign, the Ohio Dems and the DNC while this is still fresh in their minds to get Hackett on a statewide ticket, preferably for Gov.

[spooky3]

53. good work!

[safi0]

74. I'll say this partly

Out of selfishness, but also because I think its the right place for him, but I think Hackett would be much better as a US Senate candidate than as Governatorial candidate. He would effect my life much more positively as Senator than as Governor of Ohio that's the selfish part. But as Governor Hackett's biggest assett, his anti-war voice, would be all but silenced

[ralps]

17. Thanks Jeff in Milwaukee for your post. I thought Paul Hackett did

great. :hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[wanpete]

18. AMEN! Speak the truth, speak common sense, and

BE REAL. That is the only way to take it to the thugs. No more PC candidates that stick their fingers up to determine which way the wind is blowing and take forever to respond to things that undercut and smear their credibility. Paul Hackett is a shining example to us of what we need in 2006 and 2008! I salute you Mr. Hackett for having a great set of cajones! Hopefully, you have set a standard of which we will not back down!

[Peace Patriot]

44. Hear! Hear! "Speak the truth, speak common sense, and BE REAL!"

So true! Kudos to Paul Hackett! People are hungry for it--if only we can get their votes counted!

[SeanQ]

21. Well said!!

(let's assume for the moment there is no fraud, though I'll hold my opinion until I hear from the people on the ground there)

And I assume she will have to fight him again in 2006? If so, he can continue to pound on her locally. And as we continue to work getting the truth out nationally, AAR and such continue to spread and Bush's numbers continue to slide, I have every hope this slim loss, in a massively republican district!, can be reversed to a win next round.

And no matter what, as Jeff says, this vindicates our view that people _want_ to hear Dems speak the truth and stick to our traditional core values, not be repug lite. This election not only should scare the pee out of the GOP looking down the barrel at 06, but strengthens Dean's reform platform (which WE pushed for!) in the DNC. Stolen or not, I'm REALLY excited about this election! Let's find more people like Paul and start working on cleaning up the house in 06!!!

[ray of light]

28. Pounding the ground locally--equals GRASSROOTS

And that is exactly what the Democracy Cell Project is about. It's about forming the local communities to get your officials elected. And it's about election integrity in our election system because as we know without it, the basic trust in our democracy is lost!

And without election reform, will we truly ever have a fair election.


So while we're all working to get people elected, we also need to get people EXPERIENCED just like the republicans do! Everyone from the local town mayor to the House Senater. It's all connected.

Yes, Hackett did great and he had the country behind him, but we need to do this in all 50 states. So come on all...let's get our democracy back. Join http://www.democracycellproject.net and sign into the forum and become a grassroots activist in your community.

[aspberger]

26. TERRIFIC POST

Just wait till the death toll in Iraq exceeds the death toll on 9/11.

THE INNOCENT BLOOD OF THE PEOPLE OF iRAQ AND THE BLOOD OF OUR OWN SOLDIERS WILL HAUNT THE BUSHITES OUT OF CIVILIZED POSITIONS OF POWER.

[Peace Patriot]

45. The death toll in Iraq long ago greatly exceeded the death toll in 9/11.

Over 100,000 Iraqis were slaughtered during the invasion by our bombs alone, according to the British doctors' report. Some have died or had their lives shattered by torture and imprisonment. And more are dying in the rebellion, as well as from depleted uranium munitions, unexploded personnel bombs, and horrendous public health conditions, brought about by Rumsfeld's approval of looting and chaos.

Please be sensitive on this matter: U.S. soldiers are not the only human beings who have died and are dying in Iraq. The death ratio is 50 to 1 (Iraqi/American), just counting Iraqi bomb victims vs. total reported American deaths.

[IndianaGreen]

27. "let's just assume that Schmidt won on the up-and-up"?

No way! While you make valid points about Cincinnati, just across the river from snake handling churches in Jesusland, one should never assume that there is a shred of honesty in a Republican. The Republican Party is a criminal enterprise composed of traitors and jihadists. Schmidt is just the Ohio Valley version of Katherine Harris.

[jillan]

29. I am going to let it rip here, but not about foul!

Where the hell was every democrat in Congress?
Oh yeah, on vacation!

Why weren't the democrats in the house and senate out there fighting for this guy? You know, the ones that are fighting the repugs everyday, beating their heads against the wall???? They should have been on every tv show, every radio show talking about how wonderful Paul is, and what an honor it would be to have an Iraq Vet in Congress; about how he is a great family man; how he loves his country.

The whole repuke party was helping Schmitt. They were doing their usual bashing. We all heard what limpdick said. BUT if this part of Ohio is as red as they say, they have him on their radios.

Hackett did this without his party. He did it with the grassroots. Kudos to the grassroots, we are pretty powerful :) But, if some top dems were behind him, they may have taken him over to the W column.

[katinmn]

36. yep. I'm disgusted with the so-called support from the party.

They better get their act together quick.

Show some loyalty and stop worrying only about their own behinds.

[seabeyond]

30. it was 5 days before the election before we jumped on it on htis board

should have started a good while ago. i know they were working it, but we could have done more, if we had started sooner. i am bummed hearing it was such a low turnout though

[democratic veteran]

32. We need more candidates like Hackett

So lets get more vets to get involved - at all levels.

[LSK]

33. I say we cry foul, whats there to loose???

Lets fight this one all the way, drag it out in court, expose everything. Because what do we have to loose??

Go all the way and fight them now and expose everything before 2006.

[AuntPatsy]

34. I agree with you, at this point, we need to constantly shout foul...

[seaglass]

67. What is there to lose? Have you ever heard of the little boy

who cried wolf?

[Griffy]

75. well.. last 3 times we cried wolf, there was a wolf...

just not enough people cared or believed this, but the wolf is real and is destroying our election system!

WOLF!!

FOUL!!

FRAUD!!

if theres a clear paper trail, all our worries can be dealt with...
trust, but verify!

no benefit of the doubt for the crooks!

[Robeson]

35. That is an inspiring post....

...and you are right. The Dem. Party was behind the curve on this and tried to play catch up. We need to put guys like him out there well in advance, and not be afraid to hit the Repugs in their heartlands.

[eridani]

37. Even if the irregularities are not enough to turn the results--

--go after them anyway, dammit! It's time we quit putting up with this bullshit. There are certain to be elections in the future where irregularities WILL make a difference.

[dolstein]

38. "We now know how to win in conservative areas" -- er, not quite

While your sentiment is definitely acknowledged and appreciated, I think we have to be honest with ourselves. Hackett didn't win. He lost by a smaller margin that previous Democratic candidates, but we have know idea whether this is a unique election or a sign of things to come.

We certainly haven't provide that we know how to win in conservative areas. Not by a long short. Perhaps if you said "we now know how to lose by smaller margins in conservative areas," I'd have let the comment go by without a reaponse. And hey, there's something to be said for cutting into Republican margins in heavily Republican districts -- that's something we need to do in order to win state-wide races. But let's not lose all sense of perspective, ok?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

50. Last night was a twenty-plus point gain...

Take every Republican who was elected by a margin of twenty points or less, and suddenly all of those seats are in play. That's nearly the entire Congress. We didn't win this election, but we know what to do going forward.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

55. Too Late To Edit...

Did a little research. Given the swing from last night, 4-5 Ohio Republicans are now beatable and the rest will have to fight like hell to keep their seats. The 2nd CD was the safest seat in the Ohio delegation.

The better news is that Ohio will no longer be a "cash cow" for the rest of the nation; when incumbents raise more money than they need to win against token opposition, those excess campaign contributions are funneled to PACs (like Tom Delay's) that provide "seed money" to other Republicans. Ohio Republicans will now be spending everything they raise to retain their own seats, which means that their will be less money to spread around. And that's good news.

[mtnester]

51. With really only one week of SERIOUS support from grassroots for Hackett

we came this close. Imaging if he had raised more than a quarter million in a few days EARLIER ON, or done that a few times over. Imagine if he had on the ground GOTV and grassroots EN MASSE like he did that final few days say, oh, a MONTH earlier.

If we came this close with a week to 10 days of down and dirty, give it all you got, then IMAGINE if we all had started earlier on this.

And, unless you have lived your whole life in Ohio, you cannot IMAGINE how serious this close call is for Repubs. This area of Ohio is redder than any die hard, Baptist, Confederate flag flyin sunburnt redneck could EVER dream to be (no offense to those of you who are sunburnt, Baptists, or rednecks).

2006 is closer than you think, we need to get our state parties to make the selections for the offices, get em down to THE guy/gal, and run with it. No shitty primaries that split the vote and cost a gad of dough, let's get our folks singled out and GO. NOW.

We are fighting for our lives now folks, this is no time to be defeatist, the Repubs spin a loss better than anyone to make it look like a win..that is EXACTLY how we should be doing it now...and with an in your face attitude about it too.

[CTLawGuy]

52. the DLC is a sinking ship

I'd suggest getting off.

Hackett lost by a MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller margin. This wasnt a 5 point gain, this was a "he nearly pulled it off gain," in a district which is 3-1 repug.

People like someone who speaks honestly and is proud of what he or she stands for. They don't like someone they believe is pandering to them and who acts a little like the other guy.

[seaglass]

68. For now I consider this race an anomaly. Need to see a

bit more than this to believe it's a trend. Must be my cautious nature.:-)

[Gabi Hayes]

39. don't mean to drop a turd in the punch bowl, but.....

why on EARTH would anybody think that it wasn't stolen here, just as it was four years ago, and, most obviously, if one reads the myriad threads here about it, as well as M C Miller's latest book/Harper's article?

they've had plenty of time to polish their tactics, and everyone on this thread, save a few, have given the fascists the implicit, at least, benefit of the doubt

when are all you credulous happyhaps going to wake the fuck UP?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

49. Poll Watchers everywhere...

Stealing an election isn't like shop-lifting a piece of fruit from the local grocery. It requires a conspiracy to come together even as attorneys from the other side are watching your every move. Unless there is concrete evidence of vote tampering, and I've heard of none so far, the assumption is that we narrowly lost an election in a district where we typically get buried. That's good news.

[roseBudd]

79. Only someone who doesn't understand computer programming would...

make such a statement. It only takes 1 programmer on the take.

With Clermont's track record they are guilty until proven innocent.

Ray Beckerman certainly thinks so and I would not be surprised if Cliff Arnebeck does also.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

82. Punch cards in the 2nd CD

My understanding is that there are no EVM's in the District. And considering that Hackett's totals were higher than Kerry's, it would suggest that there no tampering going on.

This discussion -- here and elsewhere -- is getting more than a little tedious. We've been holding elections in this country for centuries, but in the last four years everybody seems to assume that any election we lose is "stolen." Paul Hackett was running in one of the most conservative districts in the country, and the most conservative in Ohio. He did better than any Democrat has done in a generation -- we should be celebrating that fact, not flinging unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud.

[roseBudd]

83. punch cards are tabulated by computer programs only a hand count

will reveal whether the tabulation program tabulated fraudulently.

How the hell do you think IBM card readers "count" and interpret the punched holes in the ballots.

Paul Hackett won the reddest red neck counties. God, guns, gays, yet they voted for Paul.

It's election fraud, not voter fraud.

[Freddie Stubbs]

54. Does Hackett seem like the kind of guy who would keep his mouth shut

if there was evidence that the election was stolen? :shurg:

[leyton]

69. When are you going to get some perspective?

The district is heavily heavily red. A Republican just won a Congressional seat there. This is the sort of thing that happens from time to time (oh, every two years or so).

It seems to me that when people around here dispute Republican victories, they often cite as evidence the fact that typically Democratic districts will show an unusually high Republican turnout. So shouldn't Republicans be the ones crying foul here, since a heavily Republican district displayed such anomalous behavior? In fact, shouldn't they have cried foul over Stephanie Herseth's victory in a very very red district last year?

You guys seem to think that Democrats win everywhere from San Fransisco to Crawford and when they lose its because of dirty tricks and not the fact that not every voter in this country is a liberal.

[adolfo]

40. Clermont Screenshot Results

There is no harm in double checking for accuracy. I do it all
the time when balancing my checkbook. Why should we settle
with questionable election results? 



        CLERMONT COUNTY	

				

Time			Schmidt		Hackett		Precincts Reporting

9:28:08 AM		0		0		0/191
8:24:09 PM		1158		750		0/191
9:30:23 PM		7869		6099		100/191
10:49:17 PM		17320		12439		191/191

note: write-in votes not listed (0.20% of vote total)	

[Tigress DEM]

41. And the BEST part is Schmidt was Hackett's FINEST spokesperson...

Her interview with him on tv made her look so bad and him so good.

It was easy to see he was being open and honest and she was just barfing out her talking points, turned from him, cowering away from him.

Well, then Limbaugh's attack was great too.

Why am I so happy? If the results are correct and IF there were MOSTLY republicans voting... then this whole ATTACK the Soldiers if they have the audacity to speak the truth is even TOO Much for Republicans (the ones who really DO support the soldiers - probably moderate income people with kids over there).

There are a lot of reasons for the mainstream Republicans to distance themselves from the WingNuts. Here's one more.

[Puglover]

46. Good post

I think you're spot on Jeff. But like Randi says. We have to make it so NOT close that there is no doubt. With all the Repuke bullshit going on it takes my breath away that anyone outside of a corporate criminal would vote for these monsters.
It sure would be nice to win one for a change.
Jeff

[terrya]

47. Thank you for a great post.

These are things that needed to be said.

Thank you.

[Old Vet]

56. Great Post, Weve been given a blueprint, It works

Speak the truth, Straight talk, Tell it like it is, Thats the Dem prty I use to know. Look out always for the little guy!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

58. What irregularities? n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

59. Machines went down in Clermont County

had to be hand tabulated. When the total came in, it put Schmidt over the top.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

64. That doesn't answer my question. n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

65. Then you'll have to rephrase it...

That was the irregularity that I was referencing.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

73. It's a situation with a defined set of rules...

...for what you do if it occurs. As far as I can tell, the rules were followed. The reason they have these rules is because (as we are well aware) it is not unusual for voting machines (or any similar system, for that matter) to crash.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

76. Yes

As far as I can tell, there is nothing "fishy" with regard to their computers going down -- bear in mind that the original post was written within minutes of the final votes being posted.

[eridani]

80. How do you know? Were you there? Was any Democrat there?

I don't believe the results myself. They are certainly plausible, and might even be true. But Clermont County is where people were caught putting stickers over punch holes for Kerry in Nov. 2004, and Warren County is where there was no oversight whatsoever of the counting process because they put our a fake terror alert. If you believe that similar crap was not pulled against Hackett, I have a bridge to sell you. A full audit might still have resulted in a narrow loss, but I refuse to believe any result that doesn't have one.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

81. Oh, for God's sake...

Half of any County Board of Election in Ohio are, by law, representatives from the Democratic Party. Add to the that Hackett's own representatives -- candidates typically have at least one person at the BOE on Election Night -- and you've got several pairs of eyes watching the process. The fact that the last ballots were hand-counted means that it would have been even tougher for anybody to tamper with the ballots, as each one was visually inspected.

[FighttheFuture]

85. Ummm... with electronic voting, it's irrelevant who is there to watch...

It's all stolen silently. At the very lest, there is no reason to suspect it is above board with unverifiable machines and no hope of any recount (if they even have paper ballots to do so).

Also, frankly, I am not sure I would wholly trust local dems. Just like I do not trust DLC Dems whatsoever.

[eridani]

88. You mean people who say they are Democrats--

--like the "Democrat" fundamentalist preacher's wife married to the fundy preacher Republican. Do we know that the optical scan tapes check out with the precinct sign-in books?

I'm not claiming I know one way or another about fraud; I'm just saying that I don't accept the results until all the auditing processes confirm them.

[AngryOldDem]

61. This should be etched in granite

>>>We now know how to win in conservative areas. Speak the truth. Speak common sense. Talk about the future and what's best about ourselves and our communities, and we can win.>>>>

These districts in southern Ohio have nothing to gain by repeatedly casting their lot with the GOP. But they do it because it's all they know; the history runs deep there and people are hesitant to change. It's time the Democratic Party made a sincere and significant outreach to this part of the state. Hackett did that, and came close to victory.

Learn the lesson, Dems. New history CAN be made.

Thanks, Jeff.

[JRob]

63. Great points all... regardless electronic voting needs to go as well as

the DLC and all the complicit GOP ass kissing Dem's.

It's great that a virtual nobody could make this much noise.

Bravo

What bothers me is that we could have won with a little more Dem turn out.

[Kolesar]

66. Great post. You actually know something about running in OH-2

You know candidates who did run against Portman. I had had an expectation that the Dem candidates would be blown away because of not being able to attract funding. I am encouraged that Paul did so well in a very conservative district.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

71. In 2004...

Charlie Sanders (I stand corrected, he's run against Portman four times) managed to raise less than $8,000 in individual and PAC contributions -- raised on $20,000 in total.

Hackett received more than $400,000 from actblue.org alone. The guy's a human cash register! If he starts now, he'll have quite a war chest ready for 2006 -- for whatever office he decides to pursue.

[Kolesar]

72. a third of a million for calling bush* a "chicken hawk"

There is a moment that will not be repeated. The Democrats did well to find an Iraq veteran who was telegenic and well-spoken. If the Dems can keep rattling bush*, Paul Hackett may have another shot in 15 months.

Representative Marcy Kaptur laments that Ohio Dem candidates often have scant thousands to run against the gops in these gerrymandered districts. Out-of-town interests dump tons of money into such races. It happens in my county even for state rep races. If it were not for the funding, I expect the Dems could pull "decent" numbers in the mid 40s even in a gerrymandered district. Remember, Ohio barely went for bush* in 2000 and 2004.

[Lerkfish]

77. Right. now the problem is that some say running a republican lite

campaign is the only way to win, but when we do, we lose,
hackett came very very close, diebold notwithstanding, in a conservative district and nearly won.

so I say to those who want us to move to center -- take heed.

[roseBudd]

78. Same MO as Warren County OH, some BS to delay the tabulation until ...

after the more populous/urban counties are finished reporting.

Clermont had one of the biggest C. Ellen Connaly anomalies in 04 AND Clermont is the county that the Green Party recount volunteers reported seeing round white stickers over the Kerry bubbles on the optiscan ballots.

Fool me once...

[FighttheFuture]

84. Thom Hartmann was discussing this on his show... suspects fraud,

at the very least there is no reason to suspect that the vote was above board. 50/50 all night until the very end then Claremont County comes through, big time. Enough so automatic recount can happen. Not that it would matter with the unverifiable Electronic voting machines there.

All this really shows is Dems can loose by 1-2%, and most think it's all ok-dokey!

His interviewee (not sure of name) recommended www.votersunite.org, although I do not think they have any of this election there.

[rexcat]

86. You are incorrect concerning unverifiable electronic voting in

Claremont County. They use optical scanners and the paper ballots that were scanned are available for review and recount. Please stop spreading misinformation about what is being used in Ohio as far as equipment that the counties are using.

In Warren County we are still using the punch ballot system. The good news is the equipment is kept clean and the number of spoiled ballots runs about 1-2%, still too much as far as I am concerned. I like the idea of the optical scanners becaues if used properly you can tell if a ballot is spoiled and the person voting can get another ballot to complete.

I much as I dislike Ken Blackwell he has not certified any voting machines that does not have a paper trail. The Diebold touchscreen computers are not certified in the State beacuse there is no print out.

[FighttheFuture]

87. Anything other than paper marked ballots with hand counting is...

always suspect. Even then, the paper can be subverted, also. In our election systems, there is no reason to suspect they are accurate or fair. How many times can you ignore the exit polls? Here, there were none, so not even that to verify.

Stories of Optical scan systems being corrupted in Florida in the last several elections have been out. Then there is the bigger problem of the central servers used for tabulating. At that point, it is very easy to start fixing the elections.

The problem is the margin here, which had been running mostly 50/50 all night, was, in the end, just large enough to rule out any automatic recount. It is not clear he can sue for a manual recount, nor would it likely be worth it. The farther you move away from a point in time of preserving the evidence, the less trustworthy it becomes.

As far as Ohio, pu-lease. It's the Florida of 2004. Read more here: http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010605Y.shtml and http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohiostatusrept1505.pdf

[rexcat]

89. The ballot which is paper is filled out...

by the voter then optically scanned. The ballot is then saved. What is your point. And as far as Hamilton, Claremont, Butler and Warren counties then are as red as it can get. In Claremont, Butler and Warren counties there are NO ELECTED DEMOCRATS in any office. They don't vote Democrats into office in these counties.