If the US starts another war...

[justinsb]

Run - start planning now

First let me say that in spite of the massive unpopularity of Bush, Iraq etc., most of the world understands that there are still many good Americans, and that's why I'm posting this, but only here, and only once.

The first consideration, of course, is a draft - if there's another war there will have to be one. Bush simply doesn't have enough volunteers to continue.

Second, I think that if Bush goes ahead again - In Iran or Venezuela or Syria that the world's patience will be exhausted, that Bush will have effectively declared war on the world. This may not be the official statement from most governments, but I believe that the sentiment will be felt by most of the world's population. In spite of the fact that there are still many good Americans I think it will be beside the point for most and that the world will have little sympathy for the US, for anything that happens domestically, for it's troops etc.

[KaryninMiami]

1. Shall we start a DU compound in Costa Rica?

I'm game- I've been considering leaving for quite a while now.

[justinsb]

2. Wherever you like

I left (for Canada) after Bush was elected the first time. I didn't know what was coming, but I knew it wouldn't be good and frankly even the Dems were too conservative for me.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. How hard was it to get in? (I don't have ten grand in the bank and hubby

refuses to leave so it's kinda moot.)

[justinsb]

12. It cost quite a bit...probably closer to 5 grand including moving costs

and it took about 18 months of wading through red tape, but none of that was especially hard, just tedious.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. I'll keep it in the back of my mind. If, by the time my kids are teens and

there is still a war on, I will be pushing hubby to go. And if he STILL says no, then we may well go without him. I won't let the boys feed the war machine just because hubby is blind or lazy.

[justinsb]

16. I think, although you'd have to look into it

it may also be possible to send the kids to a Canadian boarding school without you or your hubby having to be here, I know that people in other countries do it because they want their children to speak good english and have a western education (but don't want to send them to the states).

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. I would have to be desperate to do that. We have family there and could

also ship them to them. But I would just as soon raise my own kids so will find a way to get there. And if not Canada, then Ireland. Will get Nana to follow up on her dual citizenship then visit her over there.. permanently. :P

[justinsb]

24. Sure, I understand

I'm a partent too (another big motivator for the move) , and we are here permanently. I can't see anything (even the Greens taking both houses of congress and the white house) that would get me back in the US for more than a visit.

I'm just trying to point out options given the circumstances you've outlined.

:hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. Well, I have almost ten years to help set things straight here before I

make my kids' safety out of the country a top priority. :)

[justinsb]

29. Nice pics

I haven't done the east coast trip yet, I'm in Toronto. But I'm glad you enjoyed your visit. I love it here, it was home almost from the minute I landed. I hope you're right about having 10 years, but if the US invades another country, I don't know if the US will be any safer than Iraq.

[GreenPartyVoter]

30. Thanks. :^) I can't bear to leave the ocean, so if we ever moved there

it would be to NB, NS, or PEI. Or maybe we'd become Newfies. :D

[justinsb]

31. Cool...we have some very nice oceans out west too...

Life is supposed to be far less expensive on the east coast though, although that is largely because jobs are harder to come by since the collapse of the Cod fishery.

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Same deal here in Maine. In down east the fishing industry is dying

so land is dirt cheap, but it feels expensive because there's no work to be had. Further downcoast it's impossible to buy a house. Only rich people from away can afford houses here now. An ugle 70s modular ranch on scrubby swampland went for $300,000 a couple of years ago.

[justinsb]

34. We also have a cottage in Northern Ontario where land is still cheap

It is my ultimate retreat from the world (anytime I need to recharge my batteries)

?phKy6.CBclEZSwPc

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[GreenPartyVoter]

36. Pretty! :^D

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. Meant to ask you, what do you think of the healthcare system there?

[justinsb]

38. It's a complicated issue

I can't talk about waiting lists, as I've never needed hip replacement, or an organ transplant although I understand from talking to doctors that while there are waiting lists for some procedures, if it becomes life threatening you are moved to the head of the line.

Taxes here are also higher than in the states because of health care, but my taxes here are still lower than taxes + health care costs in the states. It's nice really, you don't even think about health care costs, or what if disaster should strike etc., If something is wrong you go to the doctor, end of story. I think this is an exceptionally good thing because people here don't wait until there is no other choice, they go for checkups, get their flu shots and go to the doctor at the first sign of a problem.

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. Pretty much what I thought the case would be. :^)

[European Socialist]

3. good post.

Sixty percent hate Bush here-90 percent of the world.

[justinsb]

11. Thanks, and I think 90% would be underestimating

The population of the US represents less than 5% of the world, and nowhere (except maybe Israel) does Bush enjoy a whopping 40% of popular support.

[KansDem]

4. We could stay and form the American Resistence...

One supposes all shit will hit the fan if Bush invades another country, so what's there to lose by staying?

[Tesha]

6. Well, you could be at ground zero when...

> so what's there to lose by staying?

Well, you could be at ground zero when the nukes start going off. of
course, that's better planning than being at "Ground just-far-enough-
away-to-die-an-agonizing-death-from-the-fallout".

Tesha

[KansDem]

35. I know my response might have sounded a little flip...

... but there are those of us with families, mortgages, possessions, and debt. To pick up and move to another country has crossed my mind, but to do so would require starting over with piratically nothing. I know this was the only recourse for some groups at certain times (Irish immigration in latter 19th century, anti-Nazis during 1930s, etc), but I don't know if my family and I are ready for that yet. I don't know if I can find work in another country or what awaits my children. If a third world war occurs as a result of the Bushistas, then many of the concerns I have will become moot. Many of us may lose our livelihoods. This will lead to a loss of home and what financial security we might have. We may be faced with insurmountable debt which we will never recover from. So what I was saying then is those of us who are facing these consequences might fare better to stay and resist...somehow, since we would have very little, if anything, to lose.

25-30 years ago I would be thinking about leaving. I would only do so now if it were a last resort...

[Rosco T.]

5. What do you mean.... "IF" ??? n/m

[CrispyQ]

7. I too have wondered if shrubbish invades another country

how the global community will react. I think economic sanctions would be in order. In spite of our bombs & military might, that would bring us to our knees.

[justinsb]

14. Sanctions from some are likely,

I think that from many (both governments and individual citizens) there would be an inclination to turn their backs on the "War on Terror" as in completely ignoring what is going on under their nose and a huge international boycott (that is already gaining strenght amoung individuals). For most individuals I talk to, in a variety of locations, "Buy American" is the opposite of what they try to do. (This is not just because of war, but because of American business practices and because American goods are largely seen as shoddy but the war doesn't help.)

[bearfan454]

21. China might sell off all of their T-Bills

That plus the OPEC countries changing their oil currency to the Euro and we are fucked big time.

[jojo54]

9. Isn't this around the time that Nostradamus predicted WW111?

Well, maybe not WW111, but an event that would bring the world close to total extinction?

[opihimoimoi]

10. Nukes in Iran is a pretense, a facade, an excuse....its the SPICE

Whoever controls the SPICE......RULES.....

[dbonds]

19. No, whoever can destroy the spice, controls the spice.

[opihimoimoi]

41. As the BushOilCo destroys Iraq to get the Spice..so will they destroy Iran

to get theirs....then, they will find a pretense to get Saudis Spice/Oil too...these 3 Nations had the good fortune of having a large portion of the worlds supply under their sand....

This Spice is needed for our Humvees, NasCar, Sky Diving, Race Boats, SUVs, ATVs, etc etc.... For this we will take over the World Supply of SPICE....make no bones about it....

We are entitled to our FUN...fuck the rest of the Planet.....

[LeftyElvis]

15. War on Islam

is hopeless. Let's get out of THEIR land and while we're at it; help Jews settle somewhere else. Non-muslims are not wanted in that region of the world; it's their world, their religion, their culture.

[justinsb]

17. I don't think it's so much that non-Muslims are not wanted

But non-Muslims with guns and bombs are not wanted. Most non-muslims I've talked to who visited that part of the world in peace time report being treated very well, I think they simply want some respect for their culture from non-Muslims who visit, just like people of every other culture.

[LeftyElvis]

20. I don't know about that;

I was in Saudi Arabia 18 months ago and I've never seen such hatred of Americans there. I was treated horribly; hotels, restaurants, cabs, etc..

They believe their land is holy and we should respect that.

[justinsb]

23. Yes but I'm talking about pre-war

18 months ago is post war

[SoCalifer]

22. One has to wonder

What evil plan they have to promote / justify an action such as invading another country. And what I find most disconcerting is Cheney's directing the pentagon to draft invasion plans against Iran -- "to include using nuclear weapons" to defeat deep underground hardened bunkers.

Now these chicken hawks might be evil, but you know they're not so dumb as to just up and use nuclear weapons WITHOUT some sort of idea which would cause enough indignation amongst some of the population to agree using them. And that's what has me most concerned of all -- WHAT'S on Cheney's mind for him to have directed the pentagon to draft such plans?

Of course what ever would cause enough indignation amongst some of the population to use nukes, would also certainly make conscription an automatic certainty. And as General Barney Franks himself said not too long ago, that after another big attack upon our country, martial law is a very real possibility. And we all know what that could mean.

Of course this is my worst case scenario thoughts talking. But hey, look at what administration we're talking about here.

[justinsb]

26. I honestly believe

that a nuclear strike would lead quickly to nuclear retaliation - in the US or possibly England or Israel.

[Skidmore]

25. He may start it but

someone else will finish it, and not necessarily an American.

* has stripped this nation of its military and treasury, and has managed to oversee the wholesale exportation of our industry. This country is going to collapse, and it's going to be ugly.

[justinsb]

27. The sad part is that when and if it collapses

The Bushs, Cheneys, Rumsfelds, Roves and Lays will be sunning themselves in the Camen Islands, the French Riviera, or some other such haven for the Rich,

[Hippo_Tron]

33. Starting another war would lead to absolute chaos

Absolute chaos causes stock prices to drop, their corporate masters don't want that.

[sepia_steel]

39. maybe

it's time to learn how to fight. Take that in whatever sense thou wilt...