McGovern: you can't build movements around candidates and election cycles

[welshTerrier2]

no other way to describe it: just totally blown away ...

Monday night, DU'er paineinthearse and i attended a meet-up for Congressman Jim McGovern (D-MA), a former staffer for Senator George McGovern (no relation), who was speaking about his recent trip to Iraq ... it was great to finally meet paineinthearse (he isn't, btw!!)

McGovern handed out an article he had co-authored with former Senator George McGovern entitled "Withdraw from Iraq" ... here's a link to the article published in the Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/06/06/withdraw_from_iraq/

McGovern is not just a good speaker; he's inspirational ... not only is he passionate about this country and fighting for change, but he's brutally honest ... you know when you're listening to him that he's telling you what he really thinks ... he doesn't just spout the party line or peddle some watered down version of the truth ...

with all deference to Jack Nicholson's "you can't handle the truth", here is a summary of some of McGovern's comments:

McGovern said "you can't build movements around candidates and election cycles" ... he emphasized the need to get involved, stay involved and get everyone we know involved ... we can't just sit around until the next election season rolls around ...

Jim was asked about the "we're stuck there" position that some Democrats have advocated on the war and the occupation ... he said that this "rationale was more about 'saving face' then about any kind of rational, sensible plan" ... McGovern said that he could not see that any progress had been made in Iraq at all ... the situation is a total mess ...

He asked an American General he met with whether there was any evidence the US was making progress in Iraq ... the General pointed out that whenever he flies around the country in a helicopter, he constantly sees the Iraqi people waving to him ... he asked McGovern "didn't you see the same thing??" ... McGovern responded that he assumed "they were waving at us because they were signaling for us not to shoot at them."

On withdrawal, McGovern made the following statement: "We need to end this NOW ... we need to begin an orderly withdrawal NOW; not in 6 months; not in a year ..."

He said Karl Rove seemed smart enough to find a way to save face but still get us out of Iraq NOW:
1. we could just say "we won" and then just leave or
2. we could get the Iraqis to ask us to leave and then thank us for helping them out

"The real problem we have in the movement to end the war is an undeniable lack of protests ... let's face it, people are not out in the streets demanding an end to the war ... and i have to tell you that most Congressmen are receiving very little mail on the subject" ...

"We have to teach citizens to act like citizens" ...

McGovern was asked what we could do if the Democratic Party just will not cooperate with us ... he said that "if they continue to refuse to represent our views, they need to understand that we will run candidates against them in the primaries" ... he was very clear that we cannot just continue to go along with the status quo and we must fight to have our voices heard ... he spoke passionately and articulately about the need for citizens to understand that our democracy is at risk and that we cannot continue taking it for granted ... citizens have got to be more involved ...

Finally, Congressman McGovern (D-MA) was asked about Senator Kerry's call for more troops in Iraq ... McGovern said he and Kerry are friends but that Kerry is just plain wrong on this issue ... He literally shook his head in frustration regarding Kerry's position ... then he said "Kerry could have won last year if he had taken a bolder stand against the war."

McGovern's main message was: If we want to see change, we all have to get involved ... there's no other way ... truer words were never spoken ...

Speaking just for myself, I would love to see McGovern throw his hat in the ring against Kerry the next time he's up for election ... that would give Democrats in Massachusetts a real choice instead of just another rubberstamp ... I doubt he would do it though ... and that's too bad ... of course, it wouldn't hurt to ask him, would it??

link to DU McGovern meetup thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=158x5589
link to DU McGovern/McGovern Op Ed on Withdrawal:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=158&topic_id=4964

[tech3149]

1. Sounds like my kind of candidate

Good Luck from PA

Here's the idiocy we have to deal with, the state commitee want's to pick the candidate...no primary

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2000827

[paineinthearse]

2. Watch Jim McGovern

His star is rising. He's the #2 Dem on the House Rules committee and often leads floor debate for "our" side.

p.s. Great reporting. All news is local, and, although noticed about the public meeting (where >200 attended), of course the corporate media failed to send a reporter. The local paper is owned by the NY Times.

[blm]

3. So, McGovern believes the media and the machines are both fair and

the only problem was the Iraq war position?

Sorry, but I believe that's another politician putting his head in the ground.

And if you think Kerry is just another rubber stamp, then I question your grasp of real history.

The day McGovern can produce a record of actions against Government corruption that comes close to Kerry's, you and he are welcome to share it with us.

[welshTerrier2]

6. a couple of misstatements ...

McGovern did not say, and i did not say, that the "ONLY problem was the Iraq war position" ...

and i also did not say that "Kerry is just another rubber stamp" ... again, you twisted my words because you don't want to hear anything, not a single word, that criticizes Senator Kerry ... you misunderstood what i wrote about "rubberstamps", blm ...

what i intended in my post was NOT that Kerry was a rubberstamp but rather that when incumbents are the only ones on the ballot time after time after time, especially when they run essentially unopposed, voting for them is little more than rubberstamping their tenure in office ...

i did not call Kerry "just another rubberstamp" as you alleged ...

nor did i compare Kerry's overall record to McGovern's ... i would like to see McGovern run against Kerry to offer voters a choice ... do you find that objectionable for some reason??

and btw, i will NOT respond by questioning your grasp of history ... let's not make any disagreements we might have on the issues personal ...

[blm]

10. Your exact words, welsh, point to Kerry as the rubberstamp....

>>>>
Speaking just for myself, I would love to see McGovern throw his hat in the ring against Kerry the next time he's up for election ... that would give Democrats in Massachusetts a real choice instead of just another rubberstamp ...
>>>>

Of course, I would find that offensive, as Kerry has a lifetime of proving the exact opposite of that charge.

And I notice ALOT of Democrats, especially those like Carville and Clinton, all claiming national security was the problem, or not talking about healthcare and working issues, when the truth is that Kerry talked constantly about those issues and even linked them, yet you would think that these guys only use the corporate media perception as if it were fact.

Clinton thinks Kerry would have won if he had stuck with Bush on Iraq and McGovern says the opposite - the truth was that the MEDIA didn't allow Kerry's well-thought out position on Iraq to be SEEN as being a well-thought out position.

And YES that makes me angry. Media Matters and Voting Fraud groups exist BECAUSE the problems with both are very real.

[welshTerrier2]

11. one last time ...

both my words and my intent are to say that either voters have a CHOICE or, if incumbents run unopposed, they are essentially just rubberstamping the continued tenure of those incumbents ... the focus is on the action of voting; not on the candidates ... when there is more than one, voters get to choose; when there is only one, voters either stay home or are essentially rubberstamping ... the reference was NOT directed at Kerry ...

fwiw, that was, and is, my intent ...

I have made no criticism of Kerry here, nor did McGovern, beyond his position on Iraq ... and on that, i understand we disagree ...

[blm]

12. Well, it's pretty easy to read it the other way, welsh...maybe you can

edit it to your exact meaning.

And, I am pretty clearly on record as having a distrust of any pol who doesn't recognize that there are very real problems with the media and the machines.

It's just too easy to target one person, yet when you match every aspect of the campaign up in one on one situations, it was clearly Kerry who bested his match up, Bush.

The RNC always clobbered the DNC in their broadcast match ups. And the RW media STOMPED on the left leaning media throughout the campaign. The right had talking point discipline and tenacity that the left never demonstrated and probably never will because they just aren't wired for discipline.

[welshTerrier2]

13. on your request ...

i just tried to edit my post to clarify my intent ... no go ... i wish DU would provide a slightly longer edit period ...

we'll have to let this discussion serve as the clarification ...

[TayTay]

17. More candidates is generally a good thing

I live in MA. (Yeah, yeah, bluest of the blue.) We have a real bad problem here with getting candidates to run. My local school committee and alderman (or selectman or town council) races are underpopulated. We have had too many races where the person who shows up gets in because there is no primary or general election opposition. These are not democratic elections in which the issues get fully explored. These types of 'races' (more like non-races) are a threat to American democracy. (And a disaster waiting to happen as corruption is easy when no one is paying attention.)

And my husband was the beneficiary of one such non-race. He 'ran' for school committee and since he was the only candidate, he got in. Sigh! This is not very democratic and very bad for the town. This means there will be no news coverage by the local rag, because there is no controversy to report on. When the looming fiscal crisis exploded all the local voters were shocked, shocked to hear there were such dire things going on. They might have been better informed if there had been an actual race.

I would hate to see McGovern run against Kerry as he would lose and an effective voice would be lost in the House. (It's not going to happen anyway. McGovern can count and he knows he would be out-gunned financially.) If Kerry runs again for the Senate (which may not happen) I would love to see him have opposition. It's good for the candidate, it's good for the people who vote and it's good for Democracy. Kerry had that awesome race against Weld 12 years ago and the closeness of it and the intensity of it made him a better Senator. (He learned a lot from that race including the need to pay close attention to local concerns. That lesson is still there, witness Kerry's close attention to the Red Tide disaster and the need for federal help, the closing of Otis Air Force base and all the other local issues that have gotten close attention and PR from Kerry. This guy learned something from having a strong challenger to his seat.)

I think MA Dem Party is going to go through a spell of discouraging serious primary challengers for a while and I think this is a shame. There should be no fear in facing a good opponent in a good race. Democracy is strengthened by such races as are the people who are served by these elected officials.

[Greeby]

4. McGovern's not alone

Google "Out Of Iraq Congressional Caucus"

[tocqueville]

5. I think he is absolutely right

European parties are not "only" election machines, specially on the left.

A party must be built around local structures an use them to win power and stay in power.

In France for example, in a similar situation, you would see strikes, rallies organized by the central and local representatives of the parties in opposition.

[paineinthearse]

7. Event photos

"Mr. McGovern Reminds Us That TIME is of the Essence In Getting A Withdrawal Plan In Place, Not Just A List of 'What If...?' Scenarios Lasting A Decade or More of Indecision."

[welshTerrier2]

8. not able to see photos ...

are the links correct, paineinthearse ??

[roseBudd]

9. I had several epiphanies when I was doing GOTV for Kerry...

First of all I focused all my GOTV on street canvassing and the demographic I targeted was low income people. I figured that the walk list GOTVers were missing a lot of people whose votes I wanted for Kerry.

Epiphany #1. Low income African American communities all seemed to have a group of middle aged men who congregate on a certain corner to shoot the shit. We need to to bring these men into the networking of the political process. These men are political because of the times they grew up in. We need them. they need us. We cannot assume that black churches have it covered. I kept saying we were too many white people mostly talking to white people and mostly preaching to the choir.


Epiphany #2. Is what I like to call Operation Barber Shop. I created mocking flyers that were downright profane in the eyes of middle class Kerry volunteers. African American owned businesses proudly displayed my profane flyers on their walls. Church going African American grandmothers toting grandkids said "whatever it takes to get these young ones to the polls" regarding the profane flyers. the flyer in question called Bush a punk ass bitch.

Epiphany #3. Street canvassing is much more productive than walk lists. If you are outside, I am not waking you up, or ringing your door bell when you are busy. We should be stationing our GOTV volunteers at bus stops, shopping areas, street corners, basketball courts, etc.

For Hackett I staked out the parking lot of a Dollar Store. If you came to that strip mall for anything I got a chance to talk to you.

Epiphany #4. Viral market the message. I always end my spiel with tell all your friends, aunts, uncles, parents, niece, nephews etc.

Epiphany #5. Most important of all we must mock the opponent. They certainly mock us relentlessly. And you know what it works.

George W. Bush is a punk ass bitch
Crony capitalist all about the rich

On 9-11 he sat for 7 minutes like a dope
While school kids read "My Pet Goat'

No WMD in Iraq you fool
Iran got nukes. N. Korea do too

When Clinton lied
No one died

Kerry punked Bush in each debate
Idiot boy Bush could not relate

Nov. 2 is when I vote
Not for the dumb ass that read "My Pet Goat"

[kevsand]

14. Amazing stuff.

I love the emphasis on staying involved all the time, rather than just for elections. But I am especially impressed to see the advice regarding Dems who don't represent us: "they need to understand that we will run candidates against them in the primaries" My goodness yes...

[paineinthearse]

15. .

:kick:

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. Thanks for such a positive article :^)

[Karmadillo]

18. Maybe the Democrats don't want a movement. After all,

movements can be extremely troublesome. Instead of seeing democracy as nothing more than an occasional vote, citizens might start thinking the government existed for their benefit and not that of the corporations who currently own it. Who knows what might happen then? Allegedly progressive politicians who live on the corporate dole might find themselves out of a job.

Thank you for posting this. McGovern seems like the kind of Democrat we need.

[Zhade]

19. Damn good point.

NT!

[paineinthearse]

20. Fantastic piece by Frank Rich echoes Jim's call to call it over

see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2008099&mesg_id=2008099