Howard Dean has clearly beat the everloving shit out of Bob Shrum

[Stinky The Clown]

There can be no other explanation for Shrum's performance tonight on Tweety's show. Pitted against that obsequious and pompous asswipe Ed Rogers, Shrum was a fucking bulldog. Such gems as 'stolen elections' .... 'failed to serve after getting into the National Guard' ..... 'John Kerry **is** a hero' ..... 'when you can't win by winning you win by smearing' ......

I was in shock.

Balls.

On exhibit.

Hanging from a pit bull.

Snarkiness aside, is this the new face of the Dem's message bearers? Has Howard sent them to Guts School? Will we be hearing anything similar from our other (mostly pitiful) 'mainstream' political operatives?

I am not a Shrum fan and this one (very strong) performance has not done one whit to sway me, but wow. If we can get more of this ...... we might even get our message out in a way that people will actually listen.

<edited for clarity, not content>

[Guaranteed]

1. LOL the DLC is transforming.

They're going to be part of DFA pretty quick here.

I saw an article written a few days ago that I actually THOUGHT was anti-DLC. They were criticizing themselves (along with the left)!

Get a load of the DLC's new slogan:

"Fuck the DLC!" :P

[blm]

7. Shrum isn't DLC. He was always the go-to guy for populist speeches.

I think it's more likely that Shrum has seen the thousands of posts all around the net excoriating him for knocking down the use of BCCI as a hammer against Bush and the GOP.

Supposedly, Shrum group-tested and found that people couldn't it>

I say HORSESHIT. What's not to get after 9-11? People GET that the funding of terrorism is a REALLY bad thing and that Kerry was the first lawmaker to uncover their worldwide dealings and profiteering from arms and drug deals...and that Bush1 and his cronies working with Bush2 were the ones trying to stonewall the investigation for 5 years.

Shrum, specifically, refused to use BCCI.

It also didn't help that media didn't WANT him to use it and wouldn't promote that story even if he did try to use it.

The few times Kerry mentioned it in speeches, the media acted like he never mentioned it at all.

[Guaranteed]

8. He was one of the head strategists for the DLC.

What does any of this have to do with BCCI?

[blm]

9. I always rant against Shrum for failing to use BCCI in 2004.

Come on...you know me by now.

;)

BTW...where did you hear he was a strategist for DLC? I heard that DLC always mocked Shrum for his populist speeches and that was a reason they were pissed at Gore for his convention speech.

I think Shrum is great adding to speeches, but, I am less than thrilled with his strategic capabilities.

[Guaranteed]

10. LOL, well, you're right.

We most definitely should have used it in the campaign.

[karynnj]

14. Shrum's reluctance on BCCI

might have been that because although Kerry is to be commended for his excellent work - that ended when they took his committee away and he gave the info first to the Bush justice department (which ignored it) and then to Morgenthau who went after BCCI based on that info - Clinton who was President for 8 years apparently did not try all that hard to continue this work or let Kerry do so.

When Kerry investigated BCCI, he found both Democrats and Republicans involved - I think the party was afraid of the blame they could get - even though BCCI was probably the strongest thing done against terrorism before 911. On Kerry's list of unfinished busness - that BLM posted on another thread - was the concern that Khan, who was financed by BCCI could possibly sell nucleur technologies to other countries. (Maybe this could be added to the ever growing "kerry was right list")

The problem may have been that any significant use of the ramifications of closing down the bank used by Osama was that Bush could point to things not done in the 90s. It makes Bush1 and Clinton look bad.

Kerry did mention it - but in the way of saying I know how to do this. However, it may have been that only those who knew knew how much he really was saying. It's unfair because it was Kerry's best card in saying he knew how to fight terrorism and on BCCI alone Kerry has more reason to be seen as a maverick than McCain has over his whole life. (The Democrats even had Jackie Kennedy call him to get him to stop - which thankfully he didn't)

To add insult to injury, the recent Clinton comments on how Kerry was too weak on defense are particularly galling as he should have listened to Kerry in the 90s.

[blm]

16. If Clinton HAD listened to Kerry then, there would have been no 9-11.

And no fully funded terror network. And no Bush would EVER have been allowed NEAR the White House ever again, let alone INSIDE.

[chaumont58]

18. If the FBI was half assed competent, there would have been no 9/11

The Keystone Kops couldn't have done worse.

[tinrobot]

2. I stopped watching the networks

But this would be one to see... if someone doesn't have video, maybe I can Tivo the rerun.

Howard Dean is my hero.

[LittleClarkie]

3. Oh yeah, he and Dean are just best buddies

and he ALWAYS takes Dean's advice :sarcasm:

Maybe he's just trying to show that he's strong in National Defense. Wasn't that the new DLC watchword of the day?

[Guaranteed]

4. No, he's just stealing Dean's shit,

like everybody else does, and trying to help give the DLC a makeover.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. It wasn't so much the actual words or content ..... it was the whole .....

.... attitude. He actually sounded tough and was calling out the Repubs in pretty damned clear terms.

Again ..... I ain't joinin' his fan club anytime soon .... but he **was** good tonight.

[sendero]

11. Let's take a bluebird..

.... where we find it. Kudos to Shrum, who normally I'd wish would take a job in Siberia making snowballs.

And yes, what explanation, other than Dean, is there?

[Cha]

6. I'm in shock, too! That doesn't

sound like a bob shrum message, does it?

[dolstein]

12. The sun rose this morning -- Dean must have whooped it's ass

Seriously, do you REALLY believe that Howard Dean personally discusses talking points with every Democrat who appears on cable?

[Guaranteed]

13. Dean changed the paradigm.

Shrum's following.

That's alright. That's what we WANT.

Good for Shrum!

[Independent_Liberal]

15. Howard Dean is still kicking ass!

He's one of my heroes.

:)

[JI7]

17. Shrum has always kicked ass on TV

look at his past appearances .

[zulchzulu]

19. Believe it or not, Shrum has always been a bit of a bulldog

His non-winning record aside, he is feared by his staff for his acid tongue and no-nonsense recantour.

I remember seeing him in action at Pre-Debate preparations in Spring Green, WI and he was "on". You could clearly see others at his heel when he demanded it. He seemed like a bit of an angry prick actually.

[Dinger]

20. I Saw It Too

and wondered what was up. Tweety was rude and interrupted him a lot but not the repug ho. Still, I have to say I was impressed by Shrum's performance (& I am not a fan of his).

[DinahMoeHum]

21. Well, OK, but I still wouldn't want Shrum managing a campaign

anytime soon.

He's been batting zero-for-eight (or is it 9?) in that department.

Simply put, he and Kerry choked in 2004. I don't want any chokers running on the Dem ticket anymore.

:kick: