"They lay in the road and let a Republican truck run over them."

[democrank]

Tonight I listened to Mark Crispin Miller on Free Speech TV`s INN World Report where he spoke about feckless Democratic responses to Republican tactics. In Miller`s view, Democrats "lay in the road and let Republican trucks run over them." Why? Miller opines that Democratic leaders can`t (or won`t) accept the fact that "Republicans don`t want to defeat us, they want to kill us."
Miller says Democrats are "enablers" who basically go along to get along as frequently happens in abusive relationships....in this case, inside the beltway relationships. Is Miller right? In a general way, I say he is.

This afternoon I was thinking how good it would feel to have a group of Democratic Senators make a joint statement in support of Cindy Sheehan and the peace movement. Not after the numbers are in from a focus group, not after Bush`s poll numbers fall another few points, but right now. On principle. In no uncertain terms. No wishy-washy, no "friends across the aisle" stuff, just clear, blunt words of truth.

I yearn for a new party leader instead of yet another recycled personality. I want to hear someone stand up and talk seriously about poverty again. About homelessness. About boarded up factories. Old fashioned blue collar issues. Democrat`s issues. Right now it seems that the entire country is satisfied as long as everyone buys the same yellow ribbon magnet. Those magnets seem like a sham to me because many of them are displayed by the same people who demanded war time tax cuts and looked the other way when our soldiers were sent off to war on a lie and without protective equipment.

This whole practice of using political consultants, image makers, stage props and middle-of-the-roading has got to go unless we`re happy with the status quo. Me....I`m ready for a risk taker. Someone with backbone. Someone who inspires. Someone who wouldn`t for a second let an AWOL, silver-spooned, dry drunk bully pass himself off as a Vietnam War era Christian ace pilot. I`m holding onto a teeny flicker of hope that the winds of change are a-blowin`. If they are, I hope they blow right through my party.

[Jacobin]

1. Very true, which is why Dean started raking in money

like crazy when he started speaking out against the bullies, until he was neutralized by the dem enablers and the media.

[Cha]

4. Yes, but they haven't

completely neutralized him..still got that "feisty little bastard" thing goin' on!

[Jacobin]

9. He's my guy

Nothing will change that.

[Cha]

10. To Dean!

:toast:

[Donailin]

29. can he or can he not run in 08?

Heis the ONLY candidate that I would wholeheartedly support. I will not support a candidate that wants to please greedy corporations.

[Cha]

2. Mark's right..they want

to kill us.

And the people that know that are the ones who are going to survive.

[Arugula Latte]

16. It's Us vs. Them

I'm for Us.

I'll fight them in the streets if it comes to that! I'll fight my own freak fundie relatives if I have to!

[Tigress DEM]

39. Here we go again! THIS IS What's WRONG With Progressives...

Disclaimer:
Nothing personal Oregonian... I'm reacting to the whole tone of the thread and this has been building awhile so bear with me.... please.

Warning!!! :rant:

THIS IS What's WRONG With Progressives...

Not satisified with working to make the DEM party better than it ever has been with your great ideas and wonderful energy and willingness to hold the politican's feet to the flames until they get the message.... YOU HAVE TO GO ALL the way into DESTROY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

SO. How the fuck does that make you any better than the Republicans?

End result is the same. No DEMS, no Democracy. Do you really think at this point in the game you can run in and with all 56 third party agendas do better than the DEMS? Get together on even 4 or 5 issues and at the same time become THE PARTY to DEFEAT the Republicans.. or at least get the Criminally insane ones impeached?

Do you think you could stand the pressure of CONSTANTLY living up to the pressure of DO SOMETHING!!! Good Lord, OUR COUNTRY IS GOING DOWN FOR THE THIRD COUNT! DO SOMETHING! NO NOT THAT! NO! You're doing it wrong! To the LEFT! Farther! Farther! Oh, now that looks ridiculous, bring it back to the center just a bit. Look out! There's a truck coming. Well, I know I told you to get out and support Cindy, but I didn't say you had to stand in the middle of the road!

NOTHING the DEMS do is GOOD Enough for you people.

Here in MN - FYI - We have a House DEM - Beth Lourey - who is also the mother of a fallen soldier - going out to give Cindy support ... ironically while she flies home to be with her mother, oh well. And Colleen Rowley is there too. And John Conyers is still tearing things up and other DEMS are making statements or plans and because you haven't been in their shoes... how do you know that their support would be better than what WE THE PEOPLE are doing RIGHT NOW?

US out there is MORE IMPORTANT, MORE MEANINGFUL than what the elected officials do or don't do anyway. Because OUR PART in all this has been YEARS OF APATHY - Sitting on our collective ASSES and EXPECTING OUR ELECTED Officials to DO EVERYTHING FOR US.

Before this country went to Hell in a Handbasket how many of you just felt you were doing a good enough job as a citizen to get to work, pay your taxes, keep reasonably informed, vote, donate to charity and make a little noise once in awhile if things got a little shady?

Or am I on a strange ride all by myself? Have every one of you been out on the Lake Street/Marshall bridge with the Mc Donnald Nuns and Honeywell before that protesting every week of your life as long as you can remember... or whatever ongoing activist action is always available in your area?

It isn't the POLITICIANS we need to wake up, it's the PEOPLE. WE CAN get our voting system repaired and WE CAN get these crooks out of there... if some are DEMS, or close enough to the rot to make no never mind, fine.... but that doesn't mean that the entire PARTY is WORTHLESS.

AND WHAT GOOD IS DESTRUCTION ANYWAY? IF I Wanted to be part of that shit I'd buy a gun and ride Republican or Independent.

DEMS are about building things up, putting things back together, healing and repairing, not destroying AND THAT IS WHAT IS RIGHT about DEMS and Democracy. THAT is something i LOVE about MY COUNTRY.

And when I hear Progressives talking about destroying the DEMS, I feel like I'm with freepers instead of friends and it makes me feel very discouraged as if the Progressives have started drinking the koolaid and I can't trust them anymore. AND I HATE FEELING THAT WAY!

I have such hope for the DEM Party with the influx of all the great ideas and energy of the Progressives.

I just wish you guys weren't so "microwave" in your mentality. You know how we stand in front of the microwave and tap our feet waiting for the eternity of a minute or two for coffee to warm up or whatever... THINGS ARE HAPPENING and it's really about MOMENTUM and KEEPING OUR Centeredness and NOT Becoming THAT Party with a different agenda.

What would we call it? Progressinators? If you guys are about destruction of the DEMS, you are just one more element of the Republican attack force bent on your own destruction and not thinking things through.

[Rageneau]

63. We are fans in the stands, watching our team lose...

So we 'boo' the coach, the players, the play selection. We don't get on the field ourselves; we want the people we SEND on the field to win for us.

If they don't win -- or worse, if they consistently lose when they OUGHT to win -- we're going to start chanting for a new coach or a new quarterback or a whole new defensive line. Not because we want to destroy our team, but because we want them to win; we want them to play the kind of game we want them to play -- the kind that we know in our gut will either win for us or leave us feeling proud when we lose.

DU and sites like it are merely the megaphone for our boos. If the guys on the field hear them, are embarassed by them, and change their tactics because of them, our boos will have borne fruit.

And even if they don't, it still feels good to release all that angst.
.

[liberaltrucker]

76. I love football

But this isn't a goddamed game. It's the future of our country. My wife and I are raising 2 little girls(Taylor-2yrs and Caitlin-3 weeks). Girls, yes, but don't think for a nanosecond the noecons wouldn't use them as cannon fodder. It might feel good to megaphone our boos, but how the hell does that help my kids and millions of others? As Marc Marin says.."WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!!!!".

[vickitulsa]

77. I sure agree with you there, LT!

And I agree with the posters here at DU who are raising the decibel level of their shouts of protest, crying out "It's TIME, people! Time to ACT, time to march, time to turn out in the streets and make our voices heard!"

IMO, it's most definitely way past time to dust off the old anti-war placards as well as our marching boots -- and moccasins and sandals -- and vote with our feet if they won't count our votes at the polls. I'm disabled and might have to ride my bicycle or even use a wheelchair in order to march against this insane war in Iraq through downtown Tulsa or anywhere else near enough for me to travel. But I would (and WILL) do it!

I'd *like* to go to Camp Casey because I feel the movement is truly coming together there around a grieving mother who happens to be very articulate and simply wants answers to a couple of very pointed questions the rightwing war-mongering neocon oil cabal doesn't want to answer.

"What 'noble cause' did my son die for?" I mean, how basic can you get?!

W doesn't reply because his answer would either be a blatant and recognizable LIE like so much of what he has told us or else he would have to say, "The 'noble cause' was and is keeping a Western (and particularly U.S.) GRIP on the regions where 'our' oil supply lies."

Makes me wanna throw up. And regurgitating the very product that has made us allow such a government as we have today to perpetrate the wrongs it has upon the world would feel very good to me about now. Rather like a person with bulemia must feel when s/he vomits up the rich foods s/he never should have gorged on in the first place.

I sure hope a lot of people are reading the latest article posted on DU's home page, the one about "Running on Fumes" by Phil Rockstroh. I worked in the oil and gas industry for 33 years, and I'm tellin' ya'll, this guy knows whereof he speaks!

How we Americans could ever end up allowing our sons and daughters -- and grandsons and granddaughters -- to be sent to oil-rich Middle Eastern regions to die and be wounded and emotionally scarred for life just so we can continue to ignore life-or-death environmental concerns and secure reserves of crude is beyond me. It's a technology that should have been ditched in favor of better options FIFTY goddam years ago!

And there's only one reason why we're still relying on it today in the face of clearcut catastrophic contamination of our own soil, water, and the very air we breathe......

Your reminder of how your very young children could be affected if we continue to allow the greedy monsters in Washington to perpetrate this unjust war in Iraq is a good one, Trucker. I'm so glad you mentioned them -- and I hope you and others will continue to remind us all that it's not just OUR generation that will pay the biggest price for our reluctance to speak out more forcefully!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[rhett o rick]

72. I love Conyers. But most of the rest are bought and paid for by the

same corporate money that owns the Repubs. Unless we can free the Demo Party from Big Money influence, all is lost. Having a Demo Party that is Repub lite isn't cutting it. We are losing ground every single day and Most (not all) most Demo politicians are hiding under their desks afraid to take a stand afraid of losing their parking spots. Is Hillary a candidate of the Demo grass roots?? Is she owned by Big Money?

[HootieMcBoob]

3. Yes

And Yes Again :toast:

[femrap]

12. I am beginning to think that the dems are

co-conspirators, not just enablers, in the demise and destruction of our democracy.

Look at what these neocons have pushed thru Congress this year....Bankruptcy, Class Action, Energy, Gonzales, CAFTA, Pryor, Owens, Brown-Rogers (these 3 are utterly insane), Bolton for that matter.

And now they want to let Johnny Bob Jr. on to the bench of the Supreme Court....Roe v. Wade WILL be overturned. I don't think the Dems care....most of them can't get pregnant. Even Dean last Sunday on Face the Nation was tiptoeing around the issue of Women's Rights....he even said 'We will examine John Roberts record on Women's Rights and .....no, not Women's Rights...I mean Civil Rights....'

Women are a big part of the democratic party....the DNC called me yesterday and asked for $100....Not until they stand up for my right to control my body, not one red cent will go to you spineless creatures....

I'm pissed. They even tried to scapegoat pro-choice women as the reason they' lost' the last election....geez.

Now Kerry and Edwards are thinking of dropping out of the lawsuit that the National Voting Rights Institute (John Bonifaz) has filed in federal court over the Ohio Election...I was involved in the Recount...I called Kerry's office today about it...

I want a Fighter! And I don't know any....except for Boxer and Conyers....Tubb-Jones is good too. They need to speak from the heart and FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOMS.

sorry for the rambling rant..

[democrank]

17. femrap....

If pro-choice women lost us the last election, I`ll eat a whole vat of anchovies.

I`m old enough to remember when our party did have inspirational leaders who weren`t afraid to speak out....early and often. Thanks to their words AND actions, we absolutely knew they were on our side.

[femrap]

22. Remember Barbara Jordan....

how eloquent were her speeches? Bella Abzug with her grand hats? I wish Ann Richards would speak more...she has a great flair of blending wisdom and humor.

John Edwards offered a bit of inspiration and he seemed to speak from his heart.

edited for spelling

[HootieMcBoob]

27. I used to love to hear Barbara Jordan speak

she was a treasure.

[PurgedVoter]

60. In the airport in Austin is a bronze statue of her.

I cry whenever I see it. Still Molly Ivan's shows that my state is not yet done for. I pray that the Konservative Khristans in my state might realize that their leadership is no way conservative and in not one single solitary way, following the teachings of Jesus.

[Nothing Without Hope]

34. I agree with every bit of your rant. It's all true and it's about time

we made it clear that "going along to get along" is just NOT going to cut it. I posted downtread on Kerry/Edwards possibly withdrawing from the Ohio election court case. THAT would be an outrage piled on all the other outrages.

I live in Massachusetts, so Kerry and Kennedy are my senators. I am so fed up with Kerry that I am hoping he is challenged by a reasonable, ALIVE senatorial primary candidate who will speak up. If he withdraws from the Ohio court case, that's the final straw. Yes, I would vote for him vs. a Republican in the general election, but with a distiinct lack of enthusiasm.

[Tigress DEM]

41. DEMS are fighting on multiple fronts... even the soldiers get to

come home once in awhile, but the DEMS are fighting constantly. You don't see all of it and maybe some of them are so punch drunk they can't see straight right now.

Kerry's support by the majority was "anyone but _________ fill in the Rethug name" for the most part. And HE's supposed to be excited about that?

Do you think elected officials are any thing more than human? How could any candidate look at the rabble of American voters and do anything right by us when day to day we sit here and argue about everything and never come to any real conclusions?

A few... but for how long does anything hold our attention if it disappears off the greatest page?

Except IMPEACH the Criminals.... Support Cindy.... (Let's not forget Lila and 1,846 other mother's of soldiers killed for the lie)

Get the voting problems resolved... but do we agree on THE plan?

When WE THE PEOPLE get our shit together, the candidates will know what we want because we will shout it out in unison loud enough for them to hear....

So... can we get our shit together by Sept 24th and take it to Washington?

[vickitulsa]

71. I haven't been here at DU for very long yet

but I really like much of what I see here and it feels good to have stumbled in among a very large group who by and large feel quite a bit like I feel.

BUT -- "How could any candidate look at the rabble of American voters and do anything right by us when day to day we sit here and argue about everything and never come to any real conclusions?

A few... but for how long does anything hold our attention if it disappears off the greatest page?"

THIS I relate to bigtime and must respond to here, if you all can bear with me while I try to sort out my thoughts. And this is not -- repeat NOT -- a criticism of DU or the ways and methods I'm observing here, because I'm mostly still learning what's going on at DU in its various venues and how things work among you all. I want to say up front, also, that I've really been encouraged and heartened by what I've found here. You are a terrific group and I'm impressed daily with the intelligence, insight, talent, and energy revealed at DU. And I've posted before that the organization at this site is remarkable and very effective in general IMO.

What has dismayed me repeatedly, however, is the way topics are *dropped* here so fast! If I am delayed in getting back to a thread for more than 24 hours, it's not likely anyone else is still reading it and responding to "late-comers" to a particular discussion. I tend to work on drafts of potential posts I'd like to send because I ramble too much if I don't, and that's not productive or helpful. I've spent a couple of hours at times organizing my thoughts in a WordPad document and feeling very satisfied with the result ... only to realize when I go back to post what I've written that "the train has done left the station." :cry:

And now I've figured out to read the Greatest pages so I can count on a topic staying around slightly longer; but even so, the discussions "fall off the page," as you said.

A "microwave" attitude, someone else remarked about above. Man, that really sums it up regarding how so many folks seem to want their politics -- and most other stuff in their lives -- in these times. I can almost laugh about it, and in one sense this trait reflects a much-needed urgency among those who want to see the status quo changed and changed fast. But the sad fact seems to me to be that this sort of orientation is leading to a worrisome lack of ... well, I wanted to say *commitment*, but that's not exactly right. There's a LOT of commitment here, and plenty of fire and fervor, too. But why is the gestalt, the whole organism not coming together more effectively, I wonder?

Is it all really all about a problem of short attention spans? Surely not! But this aspect is just as surely one major factor in the overall show.

From where I stand, two things Republicans have been very good at in recent years are staying on message and avoiding in-fighting. There are plenty of pablum platitudes (ones that W hisownself would happily embrace, I imagine) about sticking together that one could use to sum up that aspect of their approach. But again, there's more to it than that -- isn't there?

What am I not seeing here? How on earth can the Republicans -- a party cram-full of folks I'd feel sorry for as pathetically ignorant and untutored if I didn't resent them so much -- still keep their sh*t together well enough to hold power in all three branches of our government? How in the world can Dems have let themselves dissolve into disunity so badly that we can't even keep ONE branch in our hands? That's amazing to me.

Uh oh, and now *I'm* ramble-ranting! I'd better wrap it up. :blush:

But can anyone help me out on any of these questions I've asked? I'm sincerely hoping that DU can be a big part of the solution to the dilemma of democratic disunity. IMO there can be little effectiveness and efficiency without a pretty strong sense of unity and dedication to common causes among us.

Okay, that's it. I hope no one turns a blowtorch on me, 'cause I'm just trying to participate as I learn, and you guys got me going on this thread. :)

And thanks for listening! I'm a pretty lonely bue dot in a red-as-red-can-be state, too, and it's starting to wear me down. I handle solitude really well, but too much of it can degrade a person's will to keep going, to keep hoping, and to keep working toward positive changes.

Edited in an attempt to reduce word count! :think:

~VV

[PittLib]

59. Amen ...

I support Dean, but resent the DNC for backing an anti-choice, non-progressive candidate here in PA. And I'm sick of people telling me that I should suck it up.

[mistertrickster]

5. Whoa, this is good. Can I use this for my newsletter?

Exactly right, Democrank. We don't need new thinking in our party. We need OLD thinking--the FDR, Harry Truman thinking that made the 20th Century the Democratic Century in the United States.

My effing Congressman had a "town hall" meeting in which he backed Bush's "reform" plan. You know what the main plank of that reform plan is? Cutting benefits to the middle class--MY BENEFITS. The bastards want to take our fucking Social Security.

What does it take for the Democrats in Congress to stand up and say, "goddamn it, this is it. This is too much. This is where we fight and live to tell about it or die trying."

Haven't seen them do it yet.

[mistertrickster]

6. Nominating for "greatest" page . . .nt

[democrank]

11. mistertrickster....

I love what you said, that we need OLD thinking. Now that`s a statement with some red meat behind it.

For months now my head has been spinning nearly off my shoulders. Why, I wondered, do we need "NEW" Democratic principles? We have plenty of them already. They`re the ones that have completely overshadowed all the things we used to stand for.

Back to basics, I say. No more weasel blabbermouths who worry more about how they look on a Wolf Blitzer gabfest than they do about the slammed-shut steel mills and the hungry children wandering around looking for a place to sleep.

[Carla in Ca]

36. That's it!

'What's old is new again', remember that? We need to celebrate how Dems made this country great, not run away from it. Yeah, I know, the R's will whine and yell about those awful tax and spend liberals. So what, they are borrow and spend, so what's the difference?

The difference is the Dems made it a better country for all of us, not just the top 1%. Remember trickle-down economics? Nice thought but the bastards kept the money, didn't they?

This act controlling this country is worse than an off-off-Broadway show and it needs to be closed down. We need to be the stars of the show again. Time to get a re-write, raise the curtain and show 'em what we are made of.

[mistertrickster]

68. Trickle down economics is the idea that one can feed sparrows

by running the oats through a draft horse first.

Not too efficient, is it?

[Carla in Ca]

73. Of course it isn't

That's why, as I tried to convey in my post, it must be highlighted as part of the 'pattern of corruption' that has lead to the great divide in this country.
We need to remember where we have been and which party can take us to where we need to go.
Do you agree?

[mistertrickster]

79. Oh, yeah . . . I totally concur. I always thought the "feeding the

sparrows" metaphor was amusing and true . . .

The rich get 99.9 percent and the poor get .1 percent, so . . . that evens out to 50/50 . . . NOT!

Trickle down economics is just another way that the rich try to justify the rich getting richer. Bastards.

[Tigress DEM]

42. Bizzare. What Congressman backed Bush?

Even a lot of Republican's are getting the idea to distance themselves from Bush.

Jim Ramstad in MN had a town hall meeting and his main plank about Social Security was not going in and raiding the funds and he stated clearly that he disagreed with the pRes on several issues... especially this emminent domain issue.

I wouldn't vote Republican myself, but if Republicans who want to get re-elected realize they have to quit drinking the koolaid to do it... then that can only be a good sign.

[Booster]

7. I'm saving up money now for the time when the person you are

describing steps forward and yells "I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE". That person will get all the money I've saved; not until then.

[cyberpj]

8. I hear THAT.

"...I`m ready for a risk taker. Someone with backbone. Someone who inspires. Someone who wouldn`t for a second let an AWOL, silver-spooned, dry drunk bully pass himself off as a Vietnam War era Christian ace pilot. I`m holding onto a teeny flicker of hope that the winds of change are a-blowin`. If they are, I hope they blow right through my party."


A few times I've brought up that same thought I got a lot of blowback about 'we are the leaders we seek' and we have to do it and remarks like that and I know that all the best intentions in the world can't get us where a dynamic, outspoken, truth-telling charismatic leader can. Those are the people who make history.

But then they're usually killed.

So I can understand the reluctance.

But fear be damned! We need you NOW!

[democrank]

14. cyberpj.....

"Reluctance" is one thing, but let`s not confuse it with the normal, standard practice we see day after day after day....the old cover your you-know-what trick.

Holding back a bit because you simply haven`t thought an issue through is fine, but shivering in your boots because you`re scared some rightwinger will call you a name or the corporate media dogs might not give you half the segment is a whole other story.

[cyberpj]

20. more...

I didn't just mean reluctance to step up - I meant reluctance to be killed!

I'm thinking about "Abraham, Martin and John" (if you're old enough to remember that one).

And Ghandi
And Bobby
And Wellstone?
And who knows how many others by now?

That said, I absolutely agree that Dems have sold out to corporate interests just as Republicans taught them to do and now they're stuck, owing the same piper and addicted to the same dealers. On top of that, the system has become so corrupt even an honest man couldn't break through the "business as usual" process anymore. Have you read about some of the 'pressuring' incidents that happen on the floors of congress? It will indeed take a superman-everyman to explain it to John Q while still getting multi-million dollar funding to buy media that will be trying to shut him down.

That said, I'm still holding on to that same glimmer of hope as you.

[Tigress DEM]

43. But even a fearless leader needs a group beneath that....

can be trusted to:

... see the vision and not poo poo it.

... not stab said leader in the back or abandon at first difficulty.

... be willing to do the hard things that need to be done w/o whining.

... learn how to sing protest songs in 3 keys or less at rallies.

[LittleClarkie]

13. You mean like Kerry and Kennedy?

They both came out in support of Cindy. A while ago, in fact.

[Tigress DEM]

44. No to mention MRS. John Edwards

Betty Lourey, Colleen Rowley

And DOES NO ONE GO to Ted Kennedy's website? http://kennedy.senate.gov/index_high.html

I used his detailed explanations of how many laws would be broken if... Cheney went in and shutdown the filibuster to blast the STRIB for reporting as FACT that Cheney had that right.

Kennedy is still attending to business, but like other people at that level of activity their schedules are booked up for months at a time.


KENNEDY CALLS FOR INVESTIGATION INTO VITAL MISSING DOCUMENTS ON JOHN ROBERTS 08/16/05

SENATOR KENNEDY CALLS ON WAL-MART TO IMPROVE WORKING CONDITIONS FOR EMPLOYEES 08/10/05

KENNEDY RESPONDS TO SPECTER'S OPINION ON JUDGE ROBERTS' DOCUMENTS FROM THE SOLICITOR GENERAL'S OFFICE 08/10/05

Statement By Senator Kennedy on the 40th Anniversary of the Voting Rights Act 08/05/05

[ChiciB1]

15. I've Been Saying This For FAAAARRRR Too Long!!

So we here at DU NEED to be the voice... And thanks to Cindy Sheehan that voice is becoming a roar!

Get To D.C. for the September 24th Rally!!!!

[Tigress DEM]

45. What about Lila lipscomb?

Would Cindy be so well recieved if Lila hadn't gone ALL Over the Country Speaking her TRUTH? In Michael Moore's movie when she trecked to the White House only to get abused there by stupid people ... watching her handle her own grief and not lash back at ignorance... made me proud to be an American.

Cindy is in her grief, angry and spouting sometimes. God bless her. She deserves to vent... and yet.... Lila helped pave the way. Who is supporting Lila who went to all these little towns and helped open so many eyes to the grief of mothers so that Cindy's protest would be taken in a better light by a lot more people?

I'm going to DC, but are we roaring together against the War Criminals in the White House or is it going to be a huge "bitch about the DEMS rally"...?

[mistertrickster]

18. Kicking it back up . . . nt

[Q]

19. Kerry and Edwards didn't come out in 'support of Cindy'...

...they gave us weasel words and a 'safe' approach to the problem. That is...they say they support her...but from a safe distance and without taking a position.

There was a thread earlier today with the same theme as this one. There was one excuse after another about why more Democrats didn't take a strong position on the issues. Some posters actually thought that 'issuing a statement' or saying a few words of support was supposed to be Democrats acting brave.

I've started threads like this off and on for four years now. Asking: where are the Democrats? Or why haven't they done more to try to stop the Bush agenda? It's been four years of Democratic enabling and complicity. And we're not suppose to complain about it.

Miller is absolutely right. The RWingers want us dead. But what does our leadership do? They bring a rubber knife to a gunfight. We've had enough of this cowardice.

[democrank]

23. Q.....Sometimes it`s a rubber knife but

sometimes it`s a crisp, white flag.

I honestly can`t understand it. Instead of our leadership begging please, pretty please, can we all get along, they should have held a press conference early on and explained the gazillion papers available on the pre-Iraq war plans crafted by the PNAC and topped that off with a little story on the Iraqi oilfield maps Cheney was shifting around. That would have blown the whole 9/11= Saddam thing to smithereenes.

When the Swift-Boaters came after Kerry, Democratic leaders should have nailed Bush with the (factual) AWOL story. Let`s face it. CBS was the LAST to report it, not the first. This was such a huge issue for me because it was a glaring example of how Karl Rove knew he could take Bush`s vulnerability on this issue and transform it into a character defect for Kerry...with almost no Democratic leadership opposition.

[Q]

25. The Apologists will say...

...that it's all a dream that there USED TO BE A Democratic party that fought for the people. But We remember a time when they fought and won against the Right. Worker's rights/unions. Equal rights and choice for women. Civil rights for minorities.

But now it's about taking the safe position on every issue. Instead of standing up and fighting on principle...we get the triangulation of the New Democrats.

No more fighting for civil rights. Let the RWingers steal elections and disenfranchise thousands of Blacks. We don't want to offend any of the so-called swing voters by taking a stand or looking 'partisan'.

But that's what politics is all about...being PARTISAN and the loyal opposition.

The Bush WH is the most crooked, vile and corrupt in American history. ANY Democrat cooperating with these thugs should be voted out of office as soon as possible.

[TankLV]

30. Thank you - my thoughts exactly.

[Tigress DEM]

46. DEMS are out there doing the nuts and bolts work...

just like a lot of progressives are. WE THE PEOPLE should be behind Cindy and yet, she's said some things that are hard to stand behind.

Calling for full withdrawl without a plan is like preaching abstinence instead of considering other options for birth control.

A constituent can call the pRes awful things, especially in the midst of her grief, and be forgiven.. but a politician is bound by certain levels of responsibility. If there were irrefutable proof and the remote chance of getting a real trial going, DEMs in office could say stronger things... but without the power of the people behind them they are the minority party and don't have the authority to make it stick. Then it becomes slander.

DEMS are fighting the Republicans on multiple fronts and none of us here have full omnicience to know what these politicians are doing but before we say "Nothing" people should look at their websites and such to make sure they are being truthful before they become right wing attack dogs because they just can't be bothered with thinking for themselves.

[benny05]

70. JRE and Elizabeth Edwards Have Taken A Position on Sheehan

While Elizabeth is the author of a petition, it is being posted on the OAC Website (http://www.oneamericacommittee.com)
which represents both JRE and his wife. OAC webmaster has made it easier for folks to send to their friends without having send separate e-mails.

[kodi]

21. Rove et al have stated they want not to defeat democrats, but destroy them

shots across the bow like that have been met by the well heeled silky smooths who run the democratic party with mere teeth sucking.

when your opponents publicly say they want to destroy you, the least you can do is spit in their eye. instead, the democrats grin like idiots as if its all pre-fight hype talk a la don king.

there is no chance for comity when your opponent rapes everything for which you say you stand.

the major problem is that none, absolutely NONE of the leaders of the Democratic party will ever go hungry, die because of a lack of health care, or become personally impoverished because of republican governmental polices.

to these people, its all just a game in which they engage as a theoretical exercise. they have no skin in the game and do not feel any personal impact if they lose.

[Tigress DEM]

48. So instead of joining their ranks and destroying the party FOR them..

ISN'T there a BETTER Plan?

When the Republican's are desperate enough to say those things out loud don't you see how they are destroying their own party with their obvious insanity?

That bozo with a truck running over crosses and flags was the best Democratic PR move we never had to take.

We've been telling America that this administration is totally wacko, but now whatever thin veneer that was there is gone....

Bush will be impeached. Rove will be tried for treason. Haliburton will keep being investigated until something breaks.

If the DEMS do everything in plain view, the rethugs have time to devise stategy. Waiting until we could see the whites of their eyes worked in the Revolutionary War.... and with the balance of power as it is, that may be what is happening....

Still... WE THE PEOPLE are the best means of shaking up that balance and when we really support our DEMS and give 'em hell when necessary, then things will turn around.

DEMS aren't paid enough to put up with this level of crap and they have been fighting everywhere for budgets that are more just. However, they are the minority and they can only get things done with some bi-partisan assistance.

[kodi]

52. i think your remarks are absurd

there is no reason to take anyone seriously who mouths nonsense like this:

"Bush will be impeached. Rove will be tried for treason. Haliburton will keep being investigated until something breaks.

need it be pointed out the process by which a president is impeached and who holds power in each house of the legislature?

or...

If the DEMS do everything in plain view, the rethugs have time to devise stategy. Waiting until we could see the whites of their eyes worked in the Revolutionary War.... and with the balance of power as it is, that may be what is happening....

So, you are conjuring up some sort of double-secret, cunning plan, Black Adder?

One that is akin to that proposed a year ago around here by that illustrious Dem Strategist who said that Kerry should not come out swinging at the Swift Boat liars?

Still... WE THE PEOPLE are the best means of shaking up that balance and when we really support our DEMS and give 'em hell when necessary, then things will turn around.

Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events lately but democratic party leaders have been rolling over and playing dead for the past several years. It was not any Democratic leadership in congress that slowed down Bush's push to war, even though a majority of democrats were against it from the beginning. they gave bush help instead of hell. so spare me such remarks that do not conform to objective reality.

you have it ass backwards. the alleged democratic leaders had better start supporting us, the people, if they want to change things, not the other way around. because if they don't they won't be in congress much longer.


DEMS aren't paid enough to put up with this level of crap and they have been fighting everywhere for budgets that are more just. However, they are the minority and they can only get things done with some bi-partisan assistance.

the last i saw, congressmen and women make $150K, plus perks. if that is not enough they can go to hell, because that is seven times more than the poverty level. If one claims that the work is too hard, they can go back to the private sector, and make more.

tell a single, working mother that a person making $150K is overworked and she'll spit in your eye and ask where she can get one of those jobs.

[sendero]

24. He's 100% correct..

... and we are going to have to clean house in Washington someday.

I'm particularly frosted at the Dem senate, the most spineless, appeasing, pink tutu useless wastes of space I have ever seen.

They never saw a Bush** initiative they didn't like. They just want to keep their cushy-ass perk-encrusted jobs and do the minimum they have to. They think we will be placated with endless insipid emails full of high-toned rhetoric.

I'm sick to the gills with these losers. Someday, they are going to be kicked to the curb and they can go ahead and get their lobbyist jobs - at least then there will be no mistaking what they are up to.

[dionysus]

26. first thought that came to my mind was Dean

:shrug:

[rasputin1952]

28. William Jennings Bryant, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR...They were

passionate men and their passion sparked fires in the hearts of the people. The old "Fire in the Belly" that we need to see again, may not be far off.

These men, and many women, from the past, KNEW how to talk to people, because they got out there and saw the people. Passionate speeches are not all that politics is about though; true men/women of the People have the citizens best interests in their view when they move out into the arena. Today, we are saddled with a combination of profound ignorance and words that can not move a man to fall off his couch, much less get him to do something to advance a cause.

We do not have 'leaders', we have minuscule personalities that are trying desperately to become something they are not. The first man or woman that stands up and fights for the 'common man', regardless of the odds against him or her, will be seen as a hero. The first person to stand up and show dissent, will become a leader. The first one to call out the truth, above the howls of the indignant, will be seen as statesman.

The citizens of this nation will come together only when truth is called out, and the perpetrators of evil, such as this administration, are held to task. Then, we can carve away at the cynicism that has taken hold; and become a nation OF the People, BY the people and FOR the people again.

[barbaraann]

35. They assassinate fire-in-the-belly leaders.

n/t

[petgoat]

53. They don't assassinate women, do they?

Seems like almost all the fearless Dems are women. Black women, mostly.
McKinney, Waters, Jackson-Lee, Tubbs-Jones, Lee.

[barbaraann]

57. Hmmm....

maybe the Wellstones.

[petgoat]

74. Wellstones--good point, but they were collateral damage n/t

[Surya Gayatri]

56. Hear, hear, Rasputin...

Beautiful rant--I just hope some of the next generation of public figures read this board and get inspired by it. I come from William Jennings Bryan country originally. Now, there was a guy who could spellbind crowds with his rhetoric, but who also had the integrity to walk the walk (his fundie Christian beliefs not withstanding).:applause:

[PurgedVoter]

65. And that Cross of Gold,

We have been crucified on it. By the very people he opposed. All they had to do was use those 'fundie Christian beliefs' as a weapon against those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus.

[rasputin1952]

67. He was a firebrand, and he rested his hopes for the future of the nation

in the hands of the working man. He was of an era when he saw firsthand how the various 'barons' reaped in huge profits off of the sweat and arly deaths of the 'Common Man'.

I have no idea what kind of a president he would have made, some of his views were pretty 'odd', even for the times he was addressing. But as for his knowledge and respect for the working class, he had no peers, he was at the apex.

[jillan]

31. IF the rw start bashing Cindy for her mom's stroke

I am going to start begging them for leadership.

The stroke was caused by a blood clot for those of you who didn't know.

[Nothing Without Hope]

32. Will Pitt reports that Kerry/Edwards are planning to withdraw from the

legal action on the Ohio Election. That would be the SECOND premature concession:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x389634
Thread title: Tell Kerry Not To Give Up On Ohio

This would be a disaster. I've proposed responses to Kerry/Edwards and to the media as a DU activist task:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x21645
Very little response so far.

[GOPFighter]

33. Hey Democrank, that noise you hear...

...is my standing ovation! You are spot on. "I want to hear someone stand up and talk seriously about poverty again. About homelessness. About boarded up factories. Old fashioned blue collar issues." You nailed it. :applause:

[Jim Sagle]

37. Most DC Dems ARE Republicans. That's the only conclusion that fits their

actions.

As Americans get totally fed up with w and his war, DC Dems will REFUSE to mount an opposition. A reasonable Republican, say Chuck Hagel, will step up and become the antiwar opposition, thus leaving the Dems to argue "Stay the course."

Result: another Pug in the White House.

Just the way they planned it together.

[Tigress DEM]

49. Why do I bother? People bent on destruction can't be reasoned with.

Guess the DemocraticUnderground should change its name. Obviously DEMS aren't welcome here.

[Rageneau]

58. That's what I've begun to think.

With Democrats like these, who needs Republicans?

[sendero]

62. With Dems like most we have in congress...

... who need Republicans? I'm having a really hard time telling the difference.

[NuttyFluffers]

38. Um, the answer is yes. Read "Blinded by the Right."

I was about to say, "Uh, duh!" but that would be unproductive, though my mood definitely is on that level at the moment. :D Must cleanse my chakras O8)

Yeah, the conservatives only can survive in an "us vs. them" dynamic. Without hate and they are without existence. So after the Soviet Union collapsed they needed another "great evil" and thus the birth of all liberals, especially democrats, becoming into the new "them." Basic stuff there. But yes, they initiated war against their own citizens. They hate america, they hate their fellow americans, they only want their selfish way like any incorrigible spoiled child. They have been waging civil war for decades now and now they are shooting for the moon.

I'd prefer to not have a civil war, but since I know how all these things end historically -- with a much overdue cleaning out of excess zealous conservative nuts and sociopathic elite -- I haven't much worries about their rhetoric. If it gets out of hand by the right wings doing they'll eventually get beaten down and excoriated from society/world and things will begin anew. It behooves *them* to mind their 'p's and 'q's. Misery index is dangerously high RW dipshits -- don't make any sudden moves!
:evilgrin:

[Tigress DEM]

40. If you aren't looking for the good, you won't find it....

All these tactics that splinter the Democratic Party simply play into the Republican agenda. In fact, even better. Why should they do their own dirty work when they can get us fighting among ourselves and spare themselves getting involved?

By the way, in Minneapolis today the Mayoral Candidates held a debate on Homeless Issues.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5568109.html

We are a blue state and we've been applying pressure in ever increasing doses all across a huge political front. One of the first places we hit hard was the Media. STRIB is listening. CNN and NPR are getting a little better too.

Things have changed measurably since I went to a media fair early this year. The STRIB has really started to improve... I've seen real news showing up closer and closer to the front page and ON the front page. Last night's VIGILS were page ONE on the Metro Section and the Picture showed a full brigde and quoted real numbers instead of quieting them down.

March 19, 2004 there were 1,500 people in Loring Park and they took a picture that showed about 30 and gave the number at about a thousand buried in the article... Completely different coverage.

LOOK AT This Sidebar: (It makes me think of the DU!)

POLITICS:

resources
minnesota resources

find your local officials

key votes in congress

capitol hill basics

federal legislation

nation/world
war in iraq

war on terror

health/science

technology

news graphics

photographs

metro/region
north

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west

faith & values

education

police/court news

obituaries


*****

All the activity is causing politicians to do what they should have been doing all along --- listening to the PEOPLE... before 2000 and 2004 election crimes we were too busy, so they made up their own ideas and ran with them. I went to a town hall meeting hosted by a Republican several weeks ago and over a hundred voting age people showed up, not a lot of Republicans there either, but he stood and listened as if his political life depeneded on it.

Regarding the debates... even there the effect of Progressives and other parties is showing. The presence of lesser known candidates made the fire a bit stronger. If these candidates want to get elected in a blue state, they will have to do it the old fashioned way... by taking a real stand on the issues and convincing us they really will deliver.

A lot of candidates are out there taking the pulse of their constitutents... AT least the DEMS show up at DEM meetups regularly. I don't know if they really care about what their constitutents think, but they are hearing what we think anyway. They better care.

They might still want their ball park, but if we tell them they FIRST have to find a way to take care of the PEOPLE without a roof over their heads... Hey, maybe they will turn the Metrodome into a homeless shelter. Waste not, want not.

[dxstone]

47. You speak for many here.

The Dems have let us down for too long... but there ARE a few who are still TRYING to get the truth out there; Conyers, Pelosi, Boxer, Clevelanders Stephanie Tubbs-Jones and Kucinich, and another guy whose name escapes me... but he's black, and I say this only cuz it seems you HAVE to be a black man or a woman of any color to speak for the people these days... or else you've gotta be from Cleveland (I don't know why this is, and it has nothing to do with it being my hometown; I've never been proud of being from here, and I've always wanted to be elsewhere... but Cleveland is like quicksand; the economy is so lousy that it's very hard to escape from here, at least that's my experience.)
The rest?... I wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with 'em...
I love the party's principles... but they are, for the most part, AWFUL short on guts.
Or else bought and paid for, DINOs (Dems In Name Only.)
I had high hopes with Kerry... but when push came to shove, he seemed to have joined the other side.
I don't know what it's gonna take... but it sure seems to me that the present system can't last much longer; it's a house of cards, and how long can a house of cards stand?
d

[dxstone]

50. And btw, kicked and nominated!

And though you're not a total newbie, I've not seen your name until tonight.. so welcome to DU!


But Rummy will STILL give a MEAN "Wet Willie"!

[bvar22]

51. "Old fashioned blue collar issues"

There is a reason why the Democrats can no longer STAND for the Working American.

Did you know that an overwhelming majority of the Democratic Party is in favor of Universal (single payer) HealthCare, and a majority of ALL Americans (Democrat, Republican, other) are NOW in favor of Universal
HealthCare?

Why can't the Democratic Party STEP UP?

Who is stopping the Democratic Party, AS A PARTY, from supporting the Working American?

[democrank]

54. bvar22`s question,,,,Who is stopping the Democratic Party?....

is basic to this discussion. Since Republicans now have complete control over everything, it`s apparent to me that we`ve been stopped.
Now we have to figure out why. If my house was on fire, I`d call the fire department, not interior decorators. After forty-plus years of activism in this party, the comparative conclusions I`ve drawn are based on something other than the faddish one-liners mouthed by the national get along gang. In my opinion, the problem isn`t between Democrats and Republicans, it`s between the party`s base and their striped-suited "leadership" in Washington. Democrats who have been with this party a long time probably know exactly what I mean. Let`s get off this kick that if we speak out we`re causing chaos. The chaos was created by a leadership that traded in basic Democratic principles for corporate and media approval. "We, the people" were left behind.

There are some leaders I respect. Not for their willingness to go along with the program, but for their objection to it: Wes Clark, Howard Dean, Senator Kennedy, Senator Byrd, Bernie Sanders, to name a few. The rest of them just sit frozen in fear that they`ll appear not churchy enough, not Rambo enough. The don`t-make-waves crowd, eager little Republican-Lite beavers. I`ve had my fill of them.

There`s a big black hole where our message used to be. Why? Because a majority of our leadership grabs a safety net instead of a bullhorn every time Republicans open their mouths.

The folks I communicate with, blue collar folks just like me, aren`t worried about steroid use in professional sports (like Congress is) they`re sick half to death with worry over their empty fuel barrels, their kid in Iraq, the mill job they just lost, the house they`re barely hanging on to and the health care they don`t have. These are exactly the kinds of issues the old Democratic Party used to fight for. I`ll pick action over lip service any day.

[vickitulsa]

78. Seems to be a veritable epidemic of Beltway Paralysis

going around up there in DC. It's gotten to where, in true Orwellian fashion, you can "look from the men to the pigs and from the pigs to the men, and you can't tell the difference."

And the saddest part of all is that Beltway Paralysis has slipped out of those boundaries and now infects an entire nation! How else can one explain the way we all just gave up when the Supremes put someone in place in the highest office in the land who did not earn the right to be there or legally deserve to be given such power? What can we tell our children and grandchildren when, 20 years from now, they ask us why we let that power grab be repeated four years later and allowed that un-elected usurper of rank and privilege to remain seated in the White House for eight years?

God forbid! If he IS left in power for the full eight years, we may all be so eviscerated that we'll never be able to turn things around again. Some seminal moments in the wrong hands can redirect a nation's -- or even humankind's -- path and change history, or guide it.

[Surya Gayatri]

55. Kicking for the heart-stirring truth, so well said!

DC, you have said it all here--the most heartfelt desires of all true progressives. Who will put their head above the media parapet and dare to speak out nowadays for true social justice founded in universal human values, rather than the selfish and sense-sated status-quo? Where is our FDR or JFK (the first)? I personally feel an almost gut-level longing to hear the basic values of truth, right action, peace, universal love and non-violence propounded and defended in public debate. I pray that men and women who embody these values will begin to come forward into the political arena. :hide:

[Larkspur]

61. Lieberman would strongly oppose that joint declaration of support for

Cindy and I'm sure he would say that Dems who support Cindy are in a spider hole of denial about the morality :eyes: of the war. Remember Howard Dean said on Face the Nation that Bush should meet with Cindy, so if Howard Dean is for Cindy's cause then Lieberman must be against her.

And the DLC leadership of Al From & Co. would chime in in support of Lieberman and say that supporting Cindy Sheehan would make Democrats look weak on national defense.

[GreenPartyVoter]

64. You are very correct but this will not be enough. We need

to fix the election system too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4390619

[sunnystarr]

66. Someone is doing this

I want to hear someone stand up and talk seriously about poverty again. About homelessness. About boarded up factories. Old fashioned blue collar issues. Democrat`s issues.

http://www.oneamericacommittee.com/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43112-2005Jan27.html

He was my candidate for 2004 and he still is.

Where Edwards diverges from Kerry is in addressing a series of issues of distinctive concern to progressives--inequalities of race and class, abusive corporate power, neoliberal globalization, ghetto poverty and prison, and the importance of worker and community organization outside the state. And what makes him distinctive is not just that he regularly touches these third-rail issues but is effectively running on them.

He is unabashedly pro-union. He regularly challenges white audiences to confront "the white problem" of continued racial injustice. His "two Americas" stump speech is all about class. He appreciates and notes the sheer pervasiveness of corporate crime--from tax evasion to union avoidance, predatory lending to environmental degradation, unsafe working conditions to subsidy abuse. He is sharply critical of the "Washington Consensus" on international trade and finance. He talks about the growth of poverty and dead-end jobs. And he's the only candidate who does this in engaging language ordinary voters understand.

Better still, Edwards is relentlessly upbeat about America's ability to solve these problems. He's not another Clintonesque "I feel your pain, now let me tell you why I can't do anything about it" sort of guy. He has a real program of democratic renewal. And it is largely ours.

more ... http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040223&s=rogers

Since the '04 election, Edwards has already travelled through more states than most presidential candidates. He's determined to get his message out to the American people.

We couldn't find a better progressive candidate and leader.

[rniel]

69. You sound like someone I'd vote for

What I mean is everyone wants SOMEONE to step up and be brave. They will keep waiting and waiting. Maybe all of us need to be brave and run for office. That may be the only way back to political sanity in this country. Not everyone has the money and prestige, but even normal people can run for city offices.

[KoKo]

75. Ditch the "Think Tanks," and the "Media Pundit" Know it All's...Ditch

them and get RID OF THE LOBBYISTS. Then we might have a chance. No NEW LEADER will ever come out of this "rotten to the core" political system we have today...aided and promoted from both sides of the Aisle...the Repug and Democrat...COMPROMISERS.

We are in a "CRISIS in AMERICA." But, with the Think Tanks and C-Span, and the Cables and M$M hyping for "stability with Bush" or throwing a "bone or two" to Dems...we will never be free from these "Whore's to Ideology, Corporatism, Religion or whatever drives them as their own "cuppa tea."

It's disgusting...How we could have come to this...but we've been heading toward's this since we were founded. Only the gentle leaders who could see what it was and bridge the gaps with the differences in the average down to earth, working Americans could ever see it. And they died, were assasinated or defamed.

We are on a precipice in History. It's hard sometimes to see how close we are to "Tipping Point."

It's not what I "signed up for." :-(

[depakid]

80. "as frequently happens in abusive relationships..."

Yep. Isn't that exactly what I've been saying over and over?