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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:47 AM
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In the defense of imperialism
This was on the capital hill blues site and is fair use so I put it all. God help us:

Opinion

Defending American Imperialism
By MICAHEL A. BABCOCK
Aug 19, 2005, 06:44

President Bush's basic vocabulary -- good and evil, war and victory _ has always made his liberal critics uncomfortable. But the other week Bush seemed to be speaking to members of his own administration when he made it crystal-clear to the world that we're fighting a "war" against terrorism. It's not, as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has recently been nuancing it, a "global struggle against violent extremism."

It's a war: plain and simple. Of course, wars are neither plain nor simple.

They're messy and unpredictable. But to his credit, the president seems to recognize -- in his gut -- that a shift in vocabulary will change nothing. A policy is either right or wrong.

So what are we to make of Rumsfeld's re-labeling project, and the president's very public rejection of the new vocabulary? It has settled one thing, for sure:

Bush has a firmer handle than even Rumsfield on how empires think and act.

And I don't mean that as a criticism.

It's time for us to accept and defend our imperialism. Imperialism has received bad press for most of the last hundred years. We think of pith helmets when we hear the word, and tiger hunts, and pathetic little bands in remote Indian provinces playing "God Save the King." We think of a stiff upper lip that looks, over time, more like foolish bravado than noble resolve. We think of colonial hubris and the blind assertion of cultural superiority.

But ancient Rome _ always the brand name in empires _ is the better model.

Rome demonstrated that empires can be about much more than blood sports, tiger hunts, rapacious oil companies and military adventures in far-off places.

Empires can also stand for things that make the world a better place. Political stability, the rule of law, the virtues of political enfranchisement, the preservation of learning and the arts, and the respect for other cultures and religions: These are some of the better legacies left to us by the Romans.

The Romans pulled this off _ with all their faults _ because they believed in that quaint concept we call destiny. Americans, too, have always believed in a higher purpose. Four hundred years ago, John Winthrop described America as "a shining city on a hill." Ronald Reagan echoed that language in speeches that resonated deeply with the American people. The liberal elites in America and Europe never understood the mythic power of Reagan's rhetoric, just as they don't understand Bush's simple vocabulary today.

That disconnect is easy to explain. If you believe that history is the product only of material forces _ and is never nudged onward by some transcendent will _ then all this talk about destiny will strike you as, well, a bit spooky. Bush has embraced the transcendent view, and the clear-cut vocabulary of war that goes with it.

That certainty may creep out a lot of people, but this doesn't keep the president from declaring, repeatedly and rightly, that we represent a force for good in the world. What we're fighting for cannot be reduced to "one set of interests" struggling against "another set of interests" in a world of diminishing natural resources.

We are fighting a war over things that matter _ not the right to wear pith helmets, hunt tigers or drill oil wells in distant lands. We are fighting for ideals that transcend race, culture and religion: ideals of freedom and human dignity. And that's the kind of "imperialism" we should be willing to defend.

(Michael A. Babcock, an associate professor of humanities at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., is the author of "The Night Attila Died: Solving the Murder of Attila the Hun," Berkley Books, 2005.)
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:52 AM
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1. It's really sad how the gop attempts to intellectualize fear and greed.
God help us indeed.
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Emendator Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:54 AM
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2. The era of imperialism
is over. With today's media, it's almost impossible to keep secret the atrocities needed to keep a people down. The modern military is too expensive to maintain large occupying forces in hostile countries. And the native peoples aren't going to put up with it - and neither will the people in the occupying country.

There are two ways to win a guerilla war - either don't get involved in one, or kill all the people. Option two is obviously out. But if the neocons and the CFR crowd an empire so much, they should go play Risk.
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:56 AM
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3. How exactly did Rome "pull it off?"
The empire they created came apart at the seams for any number of good reasons. They overran their lines of supply and communications. They could no longer manage their occupied territories because of local insurrections, graft and corruption, and their internal government eventually became a morass of infighting, corruption and self-destructive actions. In time, the empire was torn apart by those internal and external forces.

And there's nothing left to show for it.

This guy's place of occupation should say it all. Jerry Falwellville.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:56 AM
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4. well, well another nominee for a Douche Bag of Liberty Award
I will let pass without comment that a nation can not be a republic and hold an empire simultaneously. We shall have only one or the other.


I chose a republic.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 01:00 AM
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5. He's at Falwell's Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va.
Figures. He's an unrepentent, outright fascist. :shrug:
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. Fuck off BabblingCock
...and the Falwell you rode in on too.
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 01:36 AM
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7. oil transcends race, culture, and religion
It's exactly what Bushler's fighting for.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 03:35 AM
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8. God.
Its exactly like that one FDR quote: A conservative is a man having two good legs who nevertheless has never learned to walk forward. Rome? We should be looking up to piss-ant Rome? a country from 2000 years ago?

This is why conservatives suck, and are unable even to run an empire: 2000 years ago, Rome was looking at the present and future, NOT standing around failing while lamenting how liberal romans were preventing them from being like Hammurabi 2000 years before. Dipshits.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Funniest thing about all of this......
For decades now, the fundagelical right, Falwell included, have been pushing the idea that the antichrist would come from a revived Roman Empire. Now they are suddenly embracing the idea of being an empire like Rome??

Does this mean they figured out the Chimp is the Antichrist and they're switching teams?
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SoCalifer Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 04:50 AM
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10. Such ignorance
"Empires can also stand for things that make the world a better place. Political stability, the rule of law, the virtues of political enfranchisement, the preservation of learning and the arts, and the respect for other cultures and religions"

*Sigh*

Somebody please inform this idiot that our imperialism through CIA covert terrorism, torture and overthrowing of sovereign governments to secure our corporate thievery of other people's national wealth, illegal weapons sales and illegal drug trafficking -IS- the cause of political instability, lawlessness and disenfranchisement.

Why can't wingnuts learn about the world they're living in before opening their stupid fucking mouths with ignorance?



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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. "Empires can also stand for things that make the world a better place."
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 05:55 AM by magellan
"Political stability, the rule of law, the virtues of political enfranchisement, the preservation of learning and the arts, and the respect for other cultures and religions: These are some of the better legacies left to us by the Romans."

Um, the afore-mentioned Imperial adornments are being BULL-DOZED by BushCo. And anyway, what's wrong with our FEDERAL REPUBLIC?

Doesn't this talk of acceding to NeoCon Imperialism -- along with its very existence within our government -- qualify as treason??

Aren't there any REAL conservatives left in America? For God's sake, get off your butts and help us! DO SOMETHING to stop this!!

edited to change 'constitutional republic' to 'federal republic', something i can never keep straight....
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