What Does Recycling 10yr old helicopters from desert tell you?

[rrrevolution]

Front page story in the News & Observer on Sunday details how the military is sending out huge transport planes to the Ariz desert to pick up abandoned helicopters to be refurbished and sent overseas to our troops.

The story quotes military officials stating that the abandoned copters have been sitting in the sun for 10 years, and that they do not have all the improvements of later models, but that they are running low on Marine helicopters -- and this is the alternative chosen.

What does this tell you about how well things are going in IRaq and Afghanistan? $300 billion spent so far and we have to recycle old helicopters from the desert.

[Horse with no Name]

1. Wow.

I call this supporting our troops!
I mean, why do they need new equipment when Halliburton could use the excess money?:sarcasm:

[Tin Man]

20. We're using the hell outa these aircraft in Iraq and Afghanistan

The CH-53 is the "heavy lifter" in the US helicopter inventory - indespensable for moving troops and equipment over hostile terrain. Like the B-52, the '53 is an "oldie but a goodie". In Afghanistan, they're used for hop-scotching over mountains and trackless landscapes, while in Iraq they're used to leapfrog roadways littered with IEDs and insurgent ambushes.

While the USMC has intended to replace the CH-53 with the MV-22 Osprey for more than a decade now, delays in the Osprey program have necessitated "stringing along" the old '53s for an unexpectedly long time. And considering the extensive use these old birds are seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan, the venerable '53s are simply beginning to wear out.

So in their desperate need, the USMC is reduce to refurbishing previously "junked" airframes from the Arizona desert for deployment overseas. Just another illustration of the poor planning of the Bush admin... they thought Iraq would be a cakewalk; 2.5 years later we're still fighting the war - now critical equipment inventories are becoming exhausted as a result.

Link to the full story:
http://www.newsobserver.com/print/sunday/front/story/2741393p-9179104c.html

[rrrevolution]

21. Absolutely! And those livng in NC know about the Osprey scandal

You will recall the falsified records of service and performance surrounding the ill-fated Osprey program, which even as we speak is being rushed into production with all its faults which will likely cost American soldiers their lives.

This is a bad situation to be in with all the threats looming on the horizon.

[OneTwentyoNine]

2. Figures.... They've tried re-cycling toops from past Wars..

Like the guy in Honolulu who served during the Gulf War,did his years and was discharged. He go recalled for the Iraq war and had to get an attorney to the military off his ass.

[jimshoes]

3. That should tell you

who or more precicely which corporation is running the USA.

[jobycom]

4. That Bush is trying to be the environmental president?

Aside from that, it's just tragic. What are the Vegas odds on the death toll on these things?

[Bob3]

5. Iraq's climate is very hostile place

The temperature extremes and the sand just chew machines to pieces. It is safe to guess this was another thing they didn't plan for - machines designed to fight the Russians in Europe not being able to take the conditions. And not bothering to order more replacement units since that would really spike the price of the war.

[babylonsister]

6. And then we get to see them crash and

families grieve. :cry:

[rrrevolution]

7. Titled Article "Copters Recalled From Boneyard"

from www.newsobserver.com , Sunday august 21, 2005 edition.

"This is the first time that retired choppers such as these have been resuscitated, and the challenges are unique: Not only have the helicopters been outside about 10 years, but the SuperStallion has evolved with continuous major upgrades."

It is stated it will take 20 months to complete.

[Mr Rabble]

22. 20 months to complete. That should tell us all what is happening.

There will be no troop reduction. This is further proof for those who are still deluded about why we are there.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Actually, there is an air force base in Arizona, near either ......

..... Tucson or Phoenix that stores aircraft in various states for just this purpose. Some are essentially airworthy and can be placed back in service quite quickly. Others are just there to be cannibalized for parts. Yet others are there to be rebuilt if needed, but are not now airworthy.

While the story cited by the OP may well be a tale of military inadequacy, it could just as easily be a routine story. Without knowing more, it is not prima facia a bad thing.

[rrrevolution]

9. Does sitting in the sun for 10 yrs suggest this is a normal occurrence?

I suspect that if this was a storage facility to perserve vehicles and parts for later use that they would not be exposed to the desert sun and elements for 10 yrs.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. That's exactly how they store them .... outdoors

The ones that are close to airworthy are wrapped in (essentially) a giant condom. Others are just exposed to the weather. But the weather is the reason they're there. It is essentially perfect for storing aircraft.

As I said, this isn't new. It has been done before, for a variety of reasons, not all of which is war.

[rrrevolution]

11. "4,300 aircraft there dating to 1957, most suitable only for parts"

from the article.

[tx_dem41]

12. "Most" being the key word in the sentence. n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Some links about the base .......

I found these in a google search. The base is near Tucson and is named Davis-Monthan Air Force Base.

http://www.sarimage.com/Aviation/DavisMonthan/
http://www.dm.af.mil/

This is the command that runs the 'boneyard':
http://www.dm.af.mil/amarc/index.html

Same command, but what seems to be a non-military site:
http://www.amarcexperience.com/Default.asp

A non-military site (but looks like it is run by scary folks!):
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/davis-monthan.htm

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis-Monthan_Air_Force_Base

[OneTwentyoNine]

16. Davis- Monthan is where their usually stored....n/t

[Vickers]

13. Do you have Google Earth? You can check them out here:

32 09 33.62 N

110 51 42.81 W


There's a whole BUNCH of shit there.

[lunchtime]

14. Perfectly normal

Many of the planes our pilots fly are older than they are. Our B-52s are ancient, as are many F-16s.

My car is 10 years old, and it sure didn't cost as much as a military helicopter. They better get some use out of those things if they can, rather than ordering new ones.

[OneTwentyoNine]

19. Yeah,except B52's don't sit in the desert for 10 years and then flown out.

David Monthan is a area for moth balling aircraft. The aircraft are not to be flown ever again but parted out much like an auto junk yard. This is the first time I've ever heard of aircraft being moth balled and then flown again. I guess the military could do it but not with civilian aircraft--the FAA wouldn't allow it.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. That's not quite true

They do, in fact recondition some aircraft. They were, as you say, mothballed ... which means stored in ready condition to be flown again some day. To be fair, it is not simply a matter of unwrapping 'em and flying 'em out. They need to be brought back to full flight ready status first. Often this could mean adding the mods that fleet aircraft have had over the years ... or at least an update to their avionics.

If I recall correctly, History Channel or Discovery had a show on about this very base .... and the AMARC command that takes care of this aircraft boneyard .... including returning to flight some of the planes.

[rrrevolution]

17. It goes along with the Republican "friend of military" lie

The Repubs claim they are able to remain in Iraq at present troop levels for 4 more years, and are able to take on Iran if necessary with the military supplies, equipment and troops we presently have on hand.

But they are scrounging for parts, refurbishing retired helicopters, holding over national guard troops and reserves, and failing to meet recruiting goals.

Nothing to worry about I guess.

[RamboLiberal]

18. Needed to be asked Where the F' is our Defense $$$$'s going?

We here at DU know the black hole it's going in to - but the yellow ribbon sheeple don't.

And the other thing is the Marine and Pentagon brass, plus Repuke congress critters, need to get over their zillion $$$$$ hard-on for that boondoggle called The Osprey.

[Alcibiades]

23. It could be political theater

staged by the Marines to get Congress to throw more money at them. The press generated by retrofitting three old mothballed choppers will probably be enough to get them a whole bunch of shiny new ones, once the appropriate members of Congress get "outraged" that the Marines "have" to do this.

[tanyev]

25. That tells me a lot of that 300 billion is sitting in someone's

(or several someone's) personal foreign bank account.