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As some here predicted, the Rightwing is gleeful at the KOS threat

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spaniard Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:03 PM
Original message
As some here predicted, the Rightwing is gleeful at the KOS threat
Coming Democratic Party Civil War?

It seems that it's not just the Republicans fighting for the soul of their party: Daily Kos has declared war on the centrist Democratic Leadership Council.

(snip of KOS's two week countdown to Democratic Armageddon)

I would point out that the Republicans were believed to have a "lock" on the Electoral College, having won five of the last six presidential races, until DLC poster boy Bill Clinton won in 1992.

Whatever flaws the GOP has--and there are many--they will be a permanent majority party if the Howard Dean-MoveOn.org-Daily Kos wing of the Democratic Party becomes the face of the opposition.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/11731

Holding out for a zero

let me delve into the psyche of one Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, the guy who runs (sort of) Daily Kos. This is prompted by his latest lurch into looniness, his vow to destroy the Democratic Leadership Council in two weeks... Kos has endorsed and/or worked for 16 candidates, and those 16 candidates all share the distinction of having lost. Further, his campaign to get Karl Rove to resign after his speech to the New York Conservative Party went exactly nowhere. I'm starting to wonder if Kos is addicted to losing. If he has this tremendous lack of self-esteem, and feels the need to reinforce his sense of inferiority by constantly latching himself to losing causes and doomed agendas.

Let's look at this purely objectively. On the one hand, we have Kos and his track record of consistently losing elections. On the other hand, we have the Democratic Leadership Council.

Out of the last 10 Presidential elections, the Democrat has won exactly three times. (Spaniard's note: I believe the figure is definitely 4 times counting Gore, maybe 5 times counting Kerry... maybe.) The first was Jimmy Carter in 1976. But let's face it -- with the stink of Watergate still hanging over the Republicans, Lyndon Johnson probably could have defeated Gerald Ford, even factoring in the handicap of Johnson having been dead for nearly four years at that point.

The only other two Democratic victories were with Bill Clinton, a product of the DLC. So, here we have a group that, somehow, actually managed to get a Democrat elected president. So, what does that mean? THEY MUST BE DESTROYED! Kos sounds an awful lot like how a lot of the left depict Karl Rove here.

So Kos says that, in two weeks, he will announce his Great Plan to destroy the DLC. Further, he spells out the theme of his attack -- smearing and besmirching them, rendering them so "radioactive" that no one will dare touch them or be around them.

Threats are stupid things. Detailed threats are even dumber. Detailed threats with deadlines are quite possibly the dumbest thing since "hey, what a cool statue of a horse our enemies left us! Bring it in here!"

I see two likely outcomes to Kos' little threat. The first is that, at the last minute, he will "allow" himself to be dissuaded from unleashing his vast powers and turning the DLC into a smoking, glowing ruin. Instead, he will announce a new "alliance" where he will work with them to elect a Democrat in 2008 -- the "alliance" consisting of Kos making a few gestures, and the DLC saying polite things and making vague noises of gratitude while paying a voodoo priestess vast sums of money to keep the Kos Kampaign Kurse from claiming yet another victim. A pity that Miss Cleo is out of business.

That's one outcome. Another would be that Kos will go back and delete the threat and pretend it never happened. That's his modus operandi -- it's what he did when he looked at the slaughtered American contractors whose bodies were strung up from a bridge in Fallujah. Kos, as you might recall (I bet he doesn't), called them "mercenaries" and proclaimed "screw them." It was only after he started losing serious ad money and consulting contracts that he issued a half-assed apology, then deleted every trace he could get his hands on that he had ever said it.

No matter what happens, though, one outcome is guaranteed: vast entertainment for a lot of people. I think I'm gonna nuke up some popcorn and enjoy this show.

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/006855.php
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Whadda buncha DLC shit.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. What is your explaination of the elections since Clinton?
The DLC has pretty much been in charge since Clinton, and I can't help but notice that the GOP controls... well, everything.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. (sigh)... yeah, I do believe KOS's agenda is...
..burn the house down so the two percenters can grab the land and rebuild it to their specs.

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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. If that were the case
why did he endorse and promote several centrist and in some cases even conservative Dems last year? Why is he supporting Casey against Santorum?

Now, I do think that like many bloggers out there he has a bit of an ego and he is a bit of drama queen at times, but while you are in constant defense of the DLC, it might be worth considering why you support them so much.

I've never quite heard a cogent defense of From and Marshall's nasty attacks on those opposing the war, Michael Moore, and Move On. I've also not heard how it helps the party on a purely electoral basis, by supporting the agenda of major corporations and Bush.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. And While You Enjoy that Entertainment
try to stay away from pretzels.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. This wing might win more than we have right now.
We have zilch, nada, zero.

The other side has the House, the Senate, and the White House, and the DLC is still claiming victory.
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spaniard Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. uh.. where has..
..the DLC claimed victory?
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. They claimed victory, or more accurately, "liberation" in January 1995....
..after losing Congress after 40 years. Liberation from the legacy of FDR, primarily. Which is why I find it laughable that the DLC is now trying to claim FDR as one of their own.

While the Republicans have spent the last 20 years trying to eliminate everything this country gained in the New Deal, they have accomplished that only with the willing votes of DLC'ers in Congress, selling out America to the corporatists right along with the Pukes.
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Beacho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Clinton, not the DLC, is the reason Clinton won
and even if the DLC is the reason, what have those fucks done for us LATELY?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Ross Perot..
... is the reason Clinton won. The DLC crowd is just another set of pols who've found an income niche.

As American as apple pie, nothing matters except their own careers. They are sort of like Repugs in that respect.

As for the Republicans' "glee", they'll be laughing out of the other sides of their faces if we can get rid of the faux Democrats and get back to what being a Dem is all about.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. why did you leave off the author's introduction to that piece?
It starts:

I think I'm going to engage in a bit of "armchair psychology" here. But first, let me spell out my qualifications:

1) I once took a single course in psychology.

2) I know very little about the subject of this piece, reading his work very occasionally.

3) Most of what I know about him is what his detractors say.

4) To refer to this as "rampant speculation" would be slanderous to rampant speculators.

OK, with that out of the way, let me delve into the psyche of one Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, the guy who runs (sort of) Daily Kos...etc.

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/006855.php

There's a lot of silly unsupported crap in this article. It's the writer's opinion and that's fine, but I still think picking on Kos is odd and pointless.

The DLC can use some serious scrutiny.
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spaniard Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. because I wanted to?
I left out a few other lines to for the sake of space.

Opinion pieces are always full of unsubstantiated "crap."

See the daily stuff posted here and at KOS.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. thats cool, but in this case the intro says it all
And yes I read Kos everyday and DU everyday. I'm familiar with this tempest in a teacup. There's crap on both sites, but good stuff too. More than I can say for the site you posted the wingnuttia from.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. The intro is important. Without it, the piece is misleading.
And, BTW, you are only allowed (by DU copyright rules) to include 4 paragraphs.
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bonzotex Donating Member (740 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. and another thing....
Who cares what the wingnuts say about Democrats arguing with Democrats? Or more specifically what GOP bloggers say about Democratic bloggers?

The wingnuts are "gleeful" when brown people die and Americans become a little poorer and more hated.

Fuck those guys.

We can fling barbs at each other all we want. we're smart enough to actually debate issues without the Party "elite" handing us our talking points of "that which must be obeyed".

Truth is, in 2006 we'll field a decent set of candidates and win some seats. In 2008 we'll have more good candidates and a coherent platform that offers a clear real alternative to Republican mis-rule. The path to 2008 lies more through activists like Kos and folks here at DU, not the DLC.
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marbuc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why does the DLC have so much power in the party?
Why does the liberal wing concede so easily? Ok, as someone who identifies with both ends of the party depending on the issue, here is my take. The DLC needs to stop running from progressive principles, and stop being afraid of the liberal label, and the liberals need to stop whining and assert control in our party.

The DLC appears solely fixated on escaping the liberal label the Republicans have demonized so artfully. It is ok to promote moderate policy positions, but they seem to be promoting a "not liberal" platform, rather than one that stands for something. They also seem to take every opportunity to distance themselves from progressive groups like MoveOn, not because they disagree, but because they don't want to tainted.

Liberals: sit in the front of the damn bus! liberals complain incessantly about their subjugation to the DLC, and in the process have ceded power to them.

Liberals need to stop playing the victim and work to strengthen their position in the party. The liberal wing consists of a jillion single issue groups like PFAW, MoveOn, etc, but have no strong organizational structure (like the DLC) that can form a comprehensive platform and raise money to publicize it, and recruit and support progressive candidates.

Howard Dean proved that an effective low dollar fundraising campaign can be just as effective as a high dollar campaign. If you raise the money, the DLC will listen, our politicians will listen.

Above all, the both sides need to stop sniping at each other, and focus on our similarities. It's ok to have differences, politics that work in California and New York do not work in Oklahoma or Kansas, and that's fine because we are the "big tent party." It's not ok for both wings to tear each other down over these differences, or threaten to bail when the going gets tough.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. Good post, thoughtful and concise...
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. No....

The right wing wants us to think they are gleeful, in order to give DLCers ammo to say "stop the infighting!"

But it's not infighting. It's kicking the might-as-well-be-republican instigators and agitators out of our party so they are no longer a distraction.


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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
14. So
Howard Dean and moveon.org are responsible for us losing seats in congress even in off year elections? This is all rich. Did anyone forget Ross Perot? who did he pull off of?
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. What, all six of you?
Yippee. You've discovered that wingnuts agree with you. Congratulations.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. good try but it isnt gonna work.
this is like the GOP saying we can't protest the war because it gives aid and comfort to the enemy, Just a ploy to guilt the opposition into shutting up. none of us will buy that HORSESHIT so you are wasting your time posting this.
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Mr Rabble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Hear, hear!
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. pure DLC apologist cryptofascism; it's Hackett that wins elections...
Not DLC-style corporate shilling.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. Edit, because on reread, I realized I missed the point.
Edited on Tue Aug-23-05 09:27 PM by Arkana
File that under "whoops" and remember that's why there's an "Edit" button. :blush:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. just curious. What do you call what KOS is doing?
Edited on Tue Aug-23-05 09:23 PM by wyldwolf
UNITY crap?


13 more days!


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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Responding to the DLC calling anti-war folks "anti-American"
What are you doing? 'Cause your lack of disavowal of Marshall's slur can only be interpreted as agreement.
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Your silence speaks volumes.
Good to know where you stand. Anti-war = anti-American. Hope if you're of enlistment age that you're packing your bags. Being a real American and all.
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NancyG Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. I just want us (dems) to win one...
after another.
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iwantmycountryback Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. Wow the wizbangblog thinks Kos is stupid
Pardon my French but who the fuck cares?
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. Good. Out with the DLC.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. And we care WHY?
Who gives a shit about what some right wing waste of electrons thinks?
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