we need a new American Revolution

[welshTerrier2]

we sit here in the US, in the "belly of the beast" ... the US wields massive power internationally; we are truly the world's only superpower ...

our institutions and our system of government, a system that purports to respond to the will of its citizens, has become totally dysfunctional ... the "checks and balances" built into the design of our government have badly failed; they have failed because the American people have taken their democracy for granted ... WE, the people, more than any other entity are to blame ...

we can point to centralized, corporate media ... they, too, share the blame for failing to tell the people the truth ... we can point to greedy corporatists who put their narrow commercial interests ahead of the national interest ... they are the most destructive force the planet has ever witnessed ... and their greedy, un-American goals would never be realized if Americans were more vigilant ... but we're not ...

one might even make an argument (although i'd never agree with it), that we "cannot afford to be nice" in taking whatever oil we need no matter who owns it or how we get it ... one could argue the very survival of the US hangs in the balance ... but what we have right now is a system that first and foremost caters to BIG OIL and other massively powerful trans-national corporate interests ... this is true EVEN IF the US indirectly derives some benefits ...

the bottom line here is that the American people play virtually no role in the policy decisions being made ... THIS IS NOT DEMOCRACY !!!

what has to change is that the American people need to hear the truth ... they need to want to hear the truth ... we have to fight for candidates who insist on telling the American people the truth ... without awareness, the American people are easily manipulated; they cannot become the force they should be to eradicate the evil corporate cabal that sits entrenched like a cancer in our government and in all our institutions ...

which brings me to the Democratic Party ... some say the Democrats have become a Party of corporatists not much better than the republicans ... perhaps this is so; perhaps not ... either way, though, what is needed is an opposition Party committed to rallying the American people to fight to reclaim their democracy ... we need to stop supporting candidates who are afraid to be labeled as anti-American ... nothing could be more American than what i espouse ... we need a new American revolution that restores the best interests of the American people to controlling the levers of power and the oversight of our systems of checks and balances ...

there is a difference between the major parties ... the Democrats hold the only real hope that a renewed energy to sweep the corporatists from power can be re-kindled ... the current hoopla about the DLC is very well founded ... for too long, they have been able to divide the Party's left and its center ... the issues we all must face together are far greater than the "small issue quibbling" we've allowed to distract us ... the DLC must go to allow a reunification of left and center ...

and then we must get back to the central business of reclaiming our country and restoring our foreign policy to one of good global citizenship ... until we can make the others understand, we have failed the rest of the world, our own country and our own party ...

[whatever4]

1. Libertarian

Try libertarian. To some folks, they're too scary.

But I ask you, do you think they'd lead us down dangerous paths? I say no. I say the Libertarian party would only push for that which the American people want. They (still) believe in representational government. I say, if their ideas were met with opposition, and they made no progress, they WOULD NOT push the agenda on us anyway.

As the repubs have done. As the dems may do. The libertarians would NOT do.

And they believe in the constitution. All of it.

And they aren't afraid of the truth. ANY of it.

http://www.lp.org/

I stand by them, to the end. They may have some radical ideas of freedom, but I wage money they wouldn't try to force us into anything.

[welshTerrier2]

2. not a chance ...

what role would Libertarians play in encouraging the US government to put contraints on the abuses of trans-national corporations ... i believe in a system that recognizes government as a force to achieve the will of an educated, informed electorate ... we've seen way to much "deregulation" and the tyranny that has resulted ...

i support most of the Libertarian social agenda that unrelentingly promotes civil liberties and respects the privacy and freedoms of the individual ...

but i strongly disagree where this theme is pushed into the commercial arena ... business must be constrained by the will of the citizens ... society's interests must come before the freedoms of corporations to exploit our environment, our people and the global community ... government is the only power with sufficient clout to restrain those whose only stated purpose is the amassing of wealth to the exclusion of the national interest ...

[ret5hd]

4. the Libertarian ideal of freedom...

is the freedom of corporations to rule the world without interference from those petty little things called governments and their taxes and environmental regulations and safety regulations and monopoly regulations and product liability laws.

sorry, but if there is "a boot on your face, forever", it doesn't make things better if it's a corporate boot rather than a government boot.

[Don1]

5. Nope.

Same problem as the Dem party. They both have corporatist infiltration. For example, the Kato Institute is a "Libertarian" think tank, yet it is funded by guess who: Rupert Murdoch. This is why many Libertarians are becoming right-wingers, they are brainwashed with this propaganda.

Here is an example. There was a huge propaganda campaign by the Kato Institute to get school vouchers on the Libertarian Party agenda as an issue of economic liberty. Think about it, though. Why hasn't there been an equally powerful movement from the Libertarian Party on vouchers for the war?? or vouchers for corporate subsidies? or corporate grants? or anything from the right-wing or that the neo-cons favor? This is the reason that I find Libertarians "scary." They have become pushed to the right by propaganda. Many of them just repeat it.

However, it is true that some do not. Many of them are economic centrists, too, which isn't so bad. And certainly Badnarik really helped in the Ohio recount cases. That is admirable.

Bottom line, though, no one is beyond tampering from the corporations.

We need "SEPARATION OF CORPORATION AND STATE."

[Tesha]

18. Ah yes. Libertarians: Republicans who want to smoke dope. (NT)

[whatever4]

19. Interesting

Are you aware you say that when

Cannabis can be used to make medicine, bio-diesel, paper, plastics, and food, just to name the top five? It grows cheaply, almost everywhere, and it doesn't drain the soil.

Is it AT ALL wise to ignore these facts? During a time when we face pain meds that turn out to be more "harmful then previously known" almost weekly, our stress levels are known to be killing us, currently for a very good reason, oil is running out, global warming and pollution issues may already be compromising the food supplies (fishing industry all round, drought, chemicals such as pesticides and heavy metals in drinking water), and not only that, but couldn't our country use some new, green, industries??

Add to that how many people are in prison because of that dope. JUST because of that. Do you know? Do you care?

And you want to sit there and pretend dope is a non issue? I have to disagree, and my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with libertarians, though many (most?) agree with these statements. That was a snide thing you said about a tragically misunderstood issue.

[tx_dem41]

20. Psssst....they said "REPUBLICANS who want to smoke dope."

Possibly the dope part isn't the problem.

[whatever4]

22. But that attitude is the problem.

It's just a snide thing to say, about libertarians, who have many other concerns, and about dope, which is not only being underutilized at the worst possible time, but the law for it also hurts so VERY many people. Just the law, not the dope. That attitude, it permits this idiocy to continue.

People so complacent in their lives they can't be bothered to spend the time to do find out if there's a real issue at hand. And a cover up.

Like one gal I know, who said "Well, if the US has more people in prison than any other nation in the world, then we must be more humane, because we don't execute ours". In terms of drug laws. And her father an alcohol distributer. No clue in that pretty little head. College educated. Drinker. Occasional smoker of cigarettes. She thinks we're more humane to put people in jail, rather than kill them. For pot.

It gets under my skin when reasonable people get flippant about it.

[Tesha]

21. I have no opinion on dope. I have an opinion on Libertarians.

I have no opinion on dope, per se. I have an opinion on Libertarians
and that is that because most of them are motivated by anti-tax
motives, they would be *PERFECTLY HAPPY IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY*
except for the fact that they think they should have the freedom
to smoke dope.

Libertarians frequently are some of the most "I've got mine, fuck you!"
people it has ever been my displeasure to meet.

Tesha

[whatever4]

24. That's a shame

I guess you were unhappy because they didn't give you any of theirs?

I have to say, right now libertarians are far more concerned with the issues in our nation, voting, free speech, truth in the media, and the war. To point to them and say they only want "no taxes", as if, could we actually MAKE that system work, it would be a bad thing...to say that's all they care about only indicates you haven't looked very hard at their principles.

They'd also like reproductive freedoms, even those that disbelieve in abortion for themselves personally don't want to ban it, and they believe in free sex, with anyone you please, and stay out of our bedrooms, thank you.

I believe we're through discussing, because I certainly have no interest discussing issues with one disagreeable from the start, on principle, complete with negative labels directed toward a group with which I obviously belong. That wasn't called for. It's fairly well why I don't talk to conservatives any more at all actually, the pig-headed labeling attitude, and why I reside on this board. But I won't be seeing you on it anymore, because with that "Libertarians frequently are some of the most "I've got mine, fuck you!" people it has ever been my displeasure to meet.", you've made my ignore list, Tesha.

[Tesha]

25. You must know different Libertarians than I do.

The ones I know don't believe much in social libertarianism, they
just don't want to pay for their fair share of the government.

Tesha

[whatever4]

26. No really, not to be rude, but you're on my ignore list, please stop nm

[whatever4]

27. dup

[Don1]

28. Hey whatever4.

You didn't answer my previous post about corporatist infiltration of the Libertarian party.

Now you are talking about Libertarians being pro-environment? Are you sure that is part of their platform?

The Nazi barbie doll, Anne Coulter, who claims to be Libertarian said something like this: "The Earth is ours. God gave it to us. Rape it. Pillage it."

You still think the Libertarian Party is beyond impurity like you posted originally?

[sendero]

29. If Libertarians..

....were running things the corporations would have taken over years ago.

No thanks.

[Generator]

3. I agree 100%

I didn't think you can use the R word on DU, though. Everyone here is trying to work within the system..and I understand that..who wants to risk everything if you can do it inside the system. But America is in DENIAL. This isn't a Democracy..and your are so correct..we have no say in our energy policy..our foreign wars...the environment. Some our cheered by the Presiden't poll numbers..but until that translates into Americans standing up and risking to change things..until we have leadership that is willing to confront the corruption that has turned this country into a shadow of what everyone wants to believe it still is but isn't anymore..there is the long slow decline to third world status..with only a few rich at the top..the bottom rung fodder for war after war..and a middle class that is quickly dying off to not be seen again in our lifetimes.

[The2ndWheel]

11. I do believe

I have to agree with that.

[welshTerrier2]

6. revolution for the pm shift ...

some revolutionaries work during the day ...

kick ...

[justabob]

7. Well said, thank you

<<what has to change is that the American people need to hear the truth ... they need to want to hear the truth ... we have to fight for candidates who insist on telling the American people the truth ... without awareness, the American people are easily manipulated; they cannot become the force they should be to eradicate the evil corporate cabal that sits entrenched like a cancer in our government and in all our institutions ...>>

This paragraph reminded me of a passage from a book I am reading right now:

"You know," he went on, "when men who understand what is happening - the motion, that is, of history, not the reports of single events or developments - when such men do not object or protest, men who do not understand cannot be expected to. How many men would you say understand - in this sense- in America? And when, as the motion of history accelerates and those who don't understand are crazed by fear, as our people were, and made into a great 'patriotic' mob, will they understand then, when they did not before?" (p 174 They Thought They Were Free)

[omega minimo]

8. Hence the problem with one party rule

"...government is the only power with sufficient clout to restrain those whose only stated purpose is the amassing of wealth to the exclusion of the national interest ..."

...like the corporations?

:patriot:

[Orrin_73]

9. Be careful about that

revolutions have always been bloody, no one wants that.

[welshTerrier2]

10. violence and freedom

first, just to be clear, nothing i wrote, or intended, called for violence ...

most of what is needed is an educated, informed electorate ... i like to believe that if we could educate the American people to what is really going on in the country, things would change very rapidly ...

but too many of "those who know" are afraid that they will be seen as un-American ... the DLC in our own Party labels many of us that way ... thanks for nothing !! our "leaders" have been too worried about the politics to fight for what is right ...

the revolution i'm calling for is the restoration of our democracy or, phrasing it differently, the ideals of our democracy ...

and if we must fight to strip power from those who act so wrongly in all of our names, than that is what we must do ... to live like this, to live under a regime that seeks to fulfill nothing but its own greed, is not an option ... we have a responsibility to honor the ideals this country was founded on and a responsibility to safeguard not only citizens in our own country but citizens all over the world ...

if blood must be spilled to do what is right, than so be it ...

[omega minimo]

12. You must have some steps in mind?

"i like to believe that if we could educate the American people to what is really going on in the country, things would change very rapidly ...

This would be an important lesson:
".. we have a responsibility to honor the ideals this country was founded on and a responsibility to safeguard not only citizens in our own country but citizens all over the world ..."

The fact that this is painted as "un-American" is part of the crazy-making that needs to be undone.

"...but too many of "those who know" are afraid that they will be seen as un-American ..."

[welshTerrier2]

13. DU is a very good start ...

some like to think that DU, blogs and other online websites is "not real world activism" ... i disagree ... they think that because we don't directly elect anyone, we don't plot out campaign strategies (i mean online) or lick envelopes here ... they don't know who is an online activist and who is not when they attend party meetings ... what they don't see is the energy online communities can create ... what they don't see is the dedication ... what they don't see is all the funding that comes from online ... and what they don't see, is all the education that is developed ... to reduce it down to its simplest idiocy, "knowledge is power" ... we are educating ourselves and that makes us far more dangerous to the status quo than anything else we could be doing ...

if nothing else, from our online experiences, i think many of us have been able to strengthen our ideas, become better writers, gain inspiration to become more active in "real life", and deepen our knowledge of specific issues ...

when you talk about steps i have in mind, i guess my starting point is education ... i see "online politics" as the beginning of a powerful movement to educate ourselves and those around us ... how many of us only talk about the issues we care about here on DU? i expect many of us drive everyone crazy talking about these issues ... it's not all i do but it is a very important part of my life and fills much of my real world conversation ...

i think that as our community grows, our "leaders" will eventually come to understand "there's gold in them thar hills" ... until very recently, they rarely heard from most of us ... most of their political life was spent among the Party's inner circle ... there was no internet; there was no "voice of the people" ... i'm confident that nothing happens on the web, or at least on the "big political" sites on the web, that escapes their attention ... that's a huge change i a very short time ...

they know we're here ... they're are listening ... as we grow, as we sharpen and clarify our message, as we become a more effective political force, they will change and those who know us will change too ... we are still in our infancy and already the parties and the MSM have taken notice ... more and more, they report on what is written on the net ... talk shows take issue with us or use our ideas to provide insights ...

so, the steps i see need no input from me ... i see them already happening ... most Americans are still sound asleep ... even many of our own "soldiers" are unaware of the power we are building ... we have a very, very long way to go but the seeds are being planted even today ...

[omega minimo]

15. Might I suggest that

"most Americans are still sound asleep"

most of those who are asleep are MORE educated and MORE comfortable than those with less education and fewer opportunities and perks? The salt o' the earth know EXACTLY what's going on, perhaps by nearer proximity to the realities of the Reagan/Bush/Bush Trickle On Economics.

[leanin_green]

14. What we need is an American Consumer Revolution. . .

A quiet revolution where the battle cry is, "I'm not buying anymore!" Because, "What if they had a sale and nobody came?" The only power we as Americans have anymore is how we spend our hard earn dollars. Over time, if enough people refused to support corporate interests that undermine our 'true' democracy and eliminate choices to a select number of chain stores that run mom & pop into the ground, then eventually, things would begin to change. But the problem remains, an informed and concerned public. The status-quo counts/banks on the disinterest of the American public. They keep our minds numb with television and the next new thing. They pay lip-service to improving education but why would the power brokers want an educated electorate. Keep them simple stupid! An educated electorate would challenge them and ask questions. That's not in their best interests. I believe it's time to regionalize commercial enterprises. To support those who live among us first to maintain strong economic self-sustaining regional hubs that trade with other regional neighbors for what they lack. It's time to live simply again and learn to live without so much extraneous stuff.

[omega minimo]

16. Yeah, why hasn't that happened yet?

".What we need is an American Consumer Revolution. . .
A quiet revolution where the battle cry is, "I'm not buying anymore!" Because, "What if they had a sale and nobody came?"

"The only power we as Americans have anymore is how we spend our hard earn dollars.

"Over time, if enough people refused to support corporate interests that undermine our 'true' democracy and eliminate choices to a select number of chain stores that run mom & pop into the ground, then eventually, things would begin to change. "

Even given the reasons/excuses you outlined, why don't people figure out that IS a way to take some power back?

That's why I answered WT2 with the suggestion that the too-comfortable are comfortably numb.

[omega minimo]

17. Amercians need deprogramming

:hide:

[omega minimo]

23. @

:kick:

[Javaman]

30. The First American Revolution started years before a shot was fired...

In the 1760's several unfair taxes and laws were passed that affected the general working class pop. It really put the screws to them. Stamp tax, quartering of soldiers in private homes, etc. As long as the American public rolls over for the patriot act, the faux energy bill etc, and keep happily paying high prices at the pump, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
In order for a "revolution" to happen, the gov't must do something that pisses off the working middle class, something that would effect their lives directly, something that would be, to coin a phrase, "a pain in the ass". The gas prices being high is a start, but from everything I have ever read about history, humans will put up with a lot of misery before they pick up arms or run with torches to run a gov't out on a rail. Thing have to get alot worse before people will demand change that kind of change.