Democrats Fumble Iraq Policy : Common Dreams

[Why Syzygy]

Read the whole thing. It will piss you off.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0825-01.htm ~ snip

While about half of the Democratic caucus in the House of Representatives -- the chambre considered closest to the grassroots -- voted in May for a resolution requiring the president to formulate an exit strategy for Iraq, the party's Senate leaders have refused even to table such an initiative.

So far, only one likely 2008 presidential candidate, Sen. Russell Feingold, has called for a complete withdrawal -- by Jan. 1, 2007 -- although, in a television interview Sunday, he stressed that the date should considered a "target", rather than a "deadline".

On the other hand, five of the party's most prominent leaders -- 2004 presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, Sen. Joseph Biden, Sen. Evan Bayh, and Sen. Hillary Clinton -- have not only opposed setting a date for withdrawal, but have also, at various times, supported substantially increasing the number of troops in Iraq, as well as the size of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps. The last three are all considered by the party establishment as strong presidential candidates.

"If we were to artificially set a deadline of some sort, that would be like giving a green light to the terrorists, and we can't afford to do that," Clinton, whose ex-president husband has also refused to publicly criticise the war, noted last February.

[xray s]

1. Hillary... Hillary.... Hillary

Hillary, do you honestly believe the terrorists need a green light to do any damn thing they want to do?

I swear, I will not give one dollar or spend one minute of time to elect any goddamn Bush enablers in 2006 or 2008!

[tocqueville]

2. the question is not a deadline but an exit plan

if you have to retreat, better do it in an ordered manner and limit the damage (militarily and politically)

that's the core of the question

[Why Syzygy]

3. A plan of any stature would beat what's been going on ..

Has the "Tipping Point" on Iraq Been Reached?
Analysis by Jim Lobe

WASHINGTON, Aug 18 (IPS) - Has the U.S. public lost so much confidence in the George W. Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war that its current strategy -- to the extent one actually exists -- is unsustainable?
...
"The administration is under more and more pressure from within -- especially from the Pentagon and influential Republicans on Capitol Hill -- and it clearly hasn't figured out what to do about it."
...

Strange that the Repukes are the ones bringing pressure to end the atrocity. Dems remain fully supportive of George W. Bush.
It's a mad mad world.

[bemildred]

4. Here's a plan:

Let me just say something about how to withdraw. This is my plan. Hey, if Tom Hayden is qualified to write up exit strategies, why not an old grunt like me, eh?

The Plan: The National Command Authority orders all US forces redeployed out of Iraq within one month and out of the theater in two months. Any commander that fails to meet the deadline will be summarily relieved, and replaced with a commander that will thereby be placed on a shorter timeline. I can promise anyone who has no experience of the military that this is perfectly feasible, and that with that kind of command emphasis, the mission can and will be accomplished.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x149835

[tocqueville]

5. you cannot retreat without covering your *ss

this would unleash constant attacks against GIs packing their stuff, IEDS on the roads etc...

it would be a new Berezina (read Napoleon in Russia)

you must have a plan that involves a major participation of muslim countries gradually taking over.

the UN could be the formal overhead, logistics provided by European countries and Russia. A provisory UN mandate with the participation of Iran and Syria could made a quiet departure possible, since a truce with the Sunni insurgency would be possible. Only the Al Quaeda types would be a problem, but they are very few.

The alternative is a departure under a rain of bullets in the middle of a civil war

is is that the Democrats want ?

[Why Syzygy]

10. No kidding

Listen. When we FIRST went in there I had visions of getting out, under a hell fire of weaponry. No doubt. They may have to fight harder to get OUT than they did to get IN.

Who do we thank for that? A bunch of sorry non-leaders. Deaf people. The GENERALS said, "no can do". The UN inspector said, "don't do it". The U.N. said, "don't do it". Did George W. Bush LISTEN? HELL NO!

Bring them HOME. Allow those people to rule themselves in whatever manner they see fit. And don't give any more dictators poisonous gasses. My opinion.

[OzarkDem]

13. Bring all the carriers into the area

Load them up with helos. Get the C130's ready and start shipping stuff out now, all personnel and supplies that are not absolutely necessary to the day to day ground war.

Pull Iraqi troops out of Iraq, take them to a remote location and begin intensive training. Re- insert them into the green zone and at strategic places around Iraq - what the hell - we've already built bases for them. No nukes allowed, conventional weapons only.

Turn the prisoners loose - it will gain you a lot of goodwill from Iraqis and will doubtless cause little harm.

Then begin a strategic pullout. Get the logistics in order to avoid panic.

[Why Syzygy]

8. Sounds good to me n/t

[Mass]

6. Feingold said clearly that he would have preferred not setting a date

but wanted a plan and thought that doing so would provoke a discussion among the democrats. In the mean time, he wants to complete the mission if possible.

as for Kerry (and as far as I know Reid), they never supported increasing the number of American troops in Iraq. They asked for NATO and Arab troops to come and secure the borders and Kerry asked that a timeline for training the Iraqi troops be set and given to the Congress so that we know where we are going.

So may be this person needs to be better informed.

As for Dean, he is right when he says this is for Bush to present a plan.

[Why Syzygy]

7. Bush only knows

how to follow a vacation plan. He cannot present anything. K?

[Mass]

9. So you expect that he will follow some plan made by a Dem?

Sorry, but we need to make clear that this is Bush's mess. We dont need to present a plan and let them tear it into piece.

Look at what happened to Feingold's plan. He is proposing a withdrawing date in 16 months and they call it "cut and run" in the MSM.

[Why Syzygy]

12. In a perfect world

I expect Bush to be impeached and indicted for war crimes and crimes against humanity. WTF cares what he does. This isn't his show any more. Is it?

[OzarkDem]

11. How about US withdrawal by early 2006

Begin bringing in UN troops this fall, start twisting arms now to get other countries at the table.

How to accomplish this, find a way to indict Bolton for one of his numerous crimes and get him out of the UN. Then shut down congress until Republicans begin to push for UN involvement.

If Dems spent half as much time fighting Bolton's appointment as they did the SCOTUS ones, we'd be in tall cotton.

Of course, all of this requires Dems in Congress to start meeting two or three times a week for the next two months to get it done. Stop worrying about getting re-elected and get to work. If Iraq isn't solved soon, they can bet they won't be re-elected.