Is there a "savior" of the Democratic Party?

[Guaranteed]

If so, who is it?

We're not the type of party that nominates "saviors." But, I have to say that we sure could use someone with the right message and personality right now.

I'm a little torn on this one, myself, between a number of answers, actually.

The savior of the Democratic Party is....

(I'm also open to suggestions for a person for the last slot. I'm also predicting that "no savior" wins. Yes, I know.)

*CAREFUL NOT TO VOTE "SOMEONE ELSE" IF YOU MEAN "YET UNKNOWN."*

[snot]

1. CINDY SHEEHAN? nt

[Guaranteed]

3. Alright, I'll throw her in, too.

:)

[Denton123]

46. I think she does more damage than good.

I think it is too easy for the right wing media to make her out to be crazy.

[faithfulcitizen]

59. regardless of her politics, she has touched a chord...

with the American people. The RW are so upset, their heads are about to explode.

[nickshepDEM]

2. Wes Clark!!@#~!@#~~~~

;)

[AntiCoup2K4]

4. I don't believe any ONE person can save the party

But I do believe Howard Dean is in the best position to get the changes started. Which is what he's been doing. Obviously it's not an overnight process.

[Denton123]

12. Potential Saviors

1) Bill Richardson
2) Evan Bayh
3) Vilsack

[Guaranteed]

16. I don't think any of those three would get much support

here or anywhere in our country.

[AntiCoup2K4]

23. I believe you misunderstood the question

We're talking about who can SAVE the party. Not the guys we're saving it FROM (pun intended)

[Denton123]

42. Dean can't win

I'm not saying that Dean wouldn't be ideal, but I don't think he can win. Right now, I believe our best short term solution is Hillary, but I don't think that Hillary will ever be able to bring the country together the way Richardson or Bayh could.

Sure they're not as conservative as I'd like but I want to win dammit.

[AntiCoup2K4]

56. Richardson and Bayh aren't conservative enough??

Did you take a wrong turn somewhere?

And yes, Dean can win. But that's not the subject of this thread. It's only you From Scouts who are obsessing about 2008 (which is why no REAL candidates are ever mentioned in all these bullshit polls in the media)

[LandOLincoln]

31. Oh puhleeze! and I say that as a New Mexican who

had a relatively high opinion of my guv despite his flaws...until he dumped all over the vote fraud/recount thingie here in the Land o' Enchantment.

But tonight I figured it out. He agreed not to challenge BushCo's election shenanigans in exchange for BushCo/BRAC leaving Cannon AFB alone.

It's called Realpolitik, but I still need to think about it for awhile.

But then, I don't live in Clovis...

[loudsue]

67. DLC all the way, are you?

:kick:

[Crunchy Frog]

5. I don't believe in saviors.

Hight quality leaders with the right message yes, but not saviors.

[flaminbats]

52. there is no political savior..

but candidates with a comman message to win back Congress gives angry people incentive to vote. Democrats can give voters an exit strategy for Iraq, an agenda insuring everyone while saving Medicare, also to end Congressional bribery and abolish the Electoral College.

Republicans love increasing deficit spending, to aimlessly continue the war in Iraq, and want only appointed state delegates to keep selecting the President to rule us all..time to let voters know this!!

[madeline_con]

6. Can we jsut eliminate Hillary and get that over with?

This country is not ready for a female Prez. Sads fact, but we needn't waste our time trying to piss off the GOP, but use it to get someone viable elected.

Clark's the man. He's anti-war, a vet, and could appease both sides; the ones who can't let go of America's military rep, and those fed up with bullying and wars against little countries that are no threat to us.

He's respectable and won't eleicit derisive laughter from the Repugs like "Hill" would, and does, from both camps.

[Denton123]

15. Hillary is too smart to lose

In case you didn't notice, the Clintons don't lose. I liked Bill and would have voted for him if I was old enough but Hillary is a more dedicated liberal.

[madeline_con]

22. I can't tell you how to vote...

The Clintons were run out of town on a rail over a blow job. They were ruined becuase Bill didin't want to admit he cheated on Hill on national TV.

We can't get rid of DUH-bya over a war based on lies, usurping his constitutional powers, war crimes, etc.

It's time we woke up and looked at what we're up against. Hillary Clinton would only be a momentary source of amusement for the GOP.

[Denton123]

39. Who than?

Unless the GOP screws it's head on straight and nominates McCain, Hillary will slaughter who ever they put up (probably Allen). Allen has no star power. Hillary does. Of course the far right hates her and will make fun her, but in the end, I bet she wins.

The only other way we can win, is with Richardson and Bayh. I would take Bayh probably over Hillary. Feingold in a perfect world.

[madeline_con]

44. Like I said, Clark's the man.

We need sommeone who knows something about war to get us out of one.

A veteran anti-war General is perfect, IMO.

[AtomicKitten]

70. I'll bite.

Bill Clinton had a 70% approval rating the day he was impeached by the House. They tried to run him out of town on a rail, but failed. And Hillary won in NY afterwords. I'd say they're holding their own.

Ps: The GOP will savage whatever nominee the Dems put up in 2008.

[sasquatch]

7. Paul Hackett and Howard Dean are both the saviors

[Guaranteed]

9. I think you're right.

Dean gave the formula and Hackett came in and backed it up with the firey personality and resume.

[AtomicKitten]

71. I agree.

Howard's going to fix the nuts and bolts of the party from the inside, and Paul Hackett is going to hone the message and teach the rest of the Dems to quit being timid.

[welshTerrier2]

8. this is exactly what the Party does NOT understand

i posted this in another thread earlier today but couldn't resist repeating it here:

it will take the whole Party including each and every one of us ... until the Party as an entity commits itself to fighting against the right-wing machinery without fear of being labeled anti-American or fear of being criticized for "harming the troops", nothing will change ...

our hope should not lie with a candidate or an election ... until we understand that we need to become a "movement" committed to fighting for our beliefs, we will continue to be a minority party with very little control ...

the Democratic Party has been infested with political technocrats who don't understand that a passionate commitment to standing up for our core values trumps "political tweaking and triangulation" everytime ... fortunately, their days are numbered as both center and left are reawakening ... a new unity between them, unencumbered by the DLC's strangehold on money and power, will free a tidal wave of change ...

we cannot wait for a "savior candidate"; we need to build a movement ...

[Guaranteed]

13. I think we're talking about exactly

the same thing.

Movements need leaders.

[welshTerrier2]

40. well, i hope so ...

my focus is that if we keep thinking "short-term" and form our platforms based on our candidates' views and treat each election as isolated from the ones before it and "play politics" rather than "fight for our beliefs", we're going nowhere anytime soon ... Americans will choose passion over politicking everytime ...

there is always a role for real leaders in a movement ... but the commitment and passion have to be first and foremost with the goals of the movement and then secondarily to those who lead it ... the Democratic Party seems to build its platforms to "fit" the nominee ...

i would also observe that "big tents" are fine but if we make the tent too big, our Party begins to mean less and less to more and more ... compromise has its place but when we become so vague (Frank Burns quote: "it's nice to be nice to the nice") that we become meaningless, we lose elections ...

if this is where you're coming from, we are very much on the same page ... I think it's great when movement spawn inspirational leaders ... sadly, most of our candidates have been far more "candidates" than they have been "leaders" ...

[Guaranteed]

43. That is most definitely

where I'm coming from.

[welshTerrier2]

50. OK, my friend ...

sign me up !!!

[jonnyblitz]

19. the thought that one person could be a "savior"

is utterly delusional IMHO. "savior" doesnt even sound human, it sounds godlike..and that is just bizarre.

[Guaranteed]

24. Some of us would deem it a miracle to see our

party revived.

[Guaranteed]

25. I put "savior" in quotes in the subject line.

Does that help?

[jonnyblitz]

35. ..you didnt have to do that...

I wasnt sayin you were bizarre..it's just my opinion. that word is just too intense to me for a mere mortal.

[IndianaGreen]

10. We are the saviours of the Democratic Party!

All of us, together with our families, friends, and neighbors. It is up to us to put the spine back in the old donkey, and to stand resolute against the neocons, corporatists, and Christian jihadists that own the Bush regime.

We may not agree on too many things, but we must agree that we must defeat Bush and the GOP at every turn, every election, every rally, etc.

Take the war to Bush!

[marbuc]

63. This is true

but we all need to give what we can, in time and/or money. When enough people are giving $25, $50, or $100 to soas to offset the large donations, this is when we will take our party and country back. Dean has proven it can be done, we just need to finish the job.

[homerthompson]

11. Hey, I'm Someone Else!

Moe: He's right!
Crowd: Someone else! Someone else!

[Guaranteed]

17. LOL!

And look who they got.

:P

I admit that there are many great possibilities out there, though.

[Hippo_Tron]

14. Right now I'm voting for Cindy Sheehan, look at the poll trends

Bush was at 45% or so when she started her protest. Now he's down to 40 and some polls have him as low as 36. I'm pretty sure that there's a connection there.

[Cocoa]

18. if there is, it's Feingold

he's independent, clean, and suprisingly popular with moderates and even some conservatives. :bounce:

[Guaranteed]

21. Really?

Conservatives like Feingold?

What did you hear that made you think that?

Not sarcasm. Honest question (could very well be true).

[Telly Savalas]

26. Feingold is conservative?

Huh?

[Guaranteed]

32. ??? Huh?

Read the post before mine. :P

[Telly Savalas]

51. Please forgive me.

Not long ago I spent 45 minutes on an exercise bike watching the first half of a Brazilian soccer game with Portuguese commentary (and I don't speak Portuguese). So my language and reading comprehension have plummetted to Bush levels. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking with it.
:)

[Cocoa]

36. he won easily in many rural areas that Kerry lost

he spends a lot of time with his constituents in all parts of the state. He pays attention to rural issues, and I think his independence and personality are also factors.

I believe Wellstone resonated the same way in rural Minnesota, and I think it's interesting they're both Jewish.

[fujiyama]

69. Actually there were many voters in WI

that voted for Bush AND Feingold. He won more votes than Kerry in the state and beat his opponent by a 10% margin, compared to Kerry's 1% victory over Bush. I think what appealed to others was his honesty and sincerity, something sorely lacking in politics. He may have a very progressive record, but has an independant streak. At the same time he's willing to listen to his constituents. He tours every county once in the state each year listening to their concerns.

While I wouldn't call him a savior just yet (I think it will take much more than one person to save us from the current state we're in), I think Feingold is interesting choice. He's certainly a very principled liberal and constistant, but at the same time very reasonable.

[karynnj]

73. He didn't have a multi- million dollar character assination

like Kerry did. He was also the incumbent, Kerry is also honest and sincere.

[fujiyama]

74. THat's true

This wasn't really a diss on Kerry and Feingold's opponent wasn't very strong.

Kerry certainly is honest and sincere, but I don't think his position on certain issues was quite as well articulated as Feingold. Plus, Kerry got pegged with the "flip flopper" image.

[CityDem]

20. Soneone else

Our party is void of progressive leadership. We need a new generation of leadership who stand up for our values.

[bonzotex]

27. Howard Dean is saving it right now

No, he won't be President.

He's rebuilding the Party one precinct, County and State at a time using grassroots organizers and funneling money down rather than sucking it up.

He's pushing a progressive, populist platform.

He doesn't back down, He doesn't mince words, he actually *gasp!* publicly and loudly defends the Party's ideals and members.

He actually *oh horror!* attacks back when slimed and slandered.

Now we need Politicians to run for office that will do the same things.

[Guaranteed]

34. I think there is a very good argument to be made that

it is Dean.

[bonzotex]

48. some people don't like him, but if they would just do as he says

we'll be winning elections for a long time to come and begin to undue the damage the Republicans have done. Unfortunately it will take decades to undo what they've broken in a few years.

[longship]

28. Too early to tell.

It could be any of the listed people, or none of them.

We're in very deep poo-poo. With the DLC bullshit, the spineless jellyfish in Congress, and Rove running ripshod all over the whole bunch of them, there is no savior yet.

There are a few stand-outs. Cindy Sheehan, Barbara Boxer, the *entire* Congressional Black Caucus, Joseph Wilson, Bernie Sanders, and a few others. But none of them are close to saving these hopeless Dems.

We'll see, maybe soon. Or, just maybe we'll be on the road to perdition.

Voted: Yet unknown

[DinahMoeHum]

29. "Someone else" is All Of Us.

:kick:

[BlueIris]

61. THANK YOU.

Ladies and gentlemen, the thread is won. Thank you very much, and good night.

[Guaranteed]

62. I thought "Someone else" was Wes Clark.

:P

[JNelson6563]

30. There must be a collective hero

To sit back and await the arrival of a hero is utter foolishness but an excellent excuse not to do any hard work.

Julie

[Guaranteed]

33. I think we oughta do our best to nominate one.

There has to be figurehead of some kind.

[shance]

85. Brilliant words. How true you are.

Thanks Julie.

[Wizard777]

37. Nope! But you will find plenty of damned good Americans in this party.

[Guaranteed]

38. For the sake of transparency, I'm going to say

that I'm the lone Hackett vote at this point.

Dean may have created the formula, but right now Hackett is the point man. He's going to drive it home.

I think, one way or another, we're going to owe our party's resurgence to Paul Hackett, for even if he ONLY become a U.S. Senator from Ohio (which I guarantee he will- HE OWNS DEWINE'S SEAT!), he is most definitely going to become the model for the rest of us.

The man is going to DESTROY the Republican Party.

[blue neen]

54. We are all saviors of the Democratic party, but Hackett is the leader.

Dean is also doing a great job, but I will give my vote to Hackett for the change in our collective attitudes. He's downright motivating and refreshing, and all he is doing is speaking the truth. (He's also got charisma to spare--people want to listen to this man).

I was so privileged to meet him.

[Stinky The Clown]

58. Paul Hackett is very impressive ... and should be encouraged to speak out

for our side.

And I can easily see him as being the Ohio senator ...... but ....

(you knew there was a 'but' coming, didn't you? :) )

...... he's the prototype for your 'savior' ..... not the actual 'savior'.

What are his essential qualities that make him the prototype? I'm not talking specific resume here ... I'm talking about broad qualities.

He is honest and says what he thinks in unambiguous terms - and not infrequently in political incorrect terms.

He speaks with passion. He's not a political machine or spin puppet. He's a man and acts like one.

He takes divisive issues off the table. He won't kowtow to the gun nuts .... the ones on both sides of that argument. But neither will he give quarter to either.

So what are the qualities in even fewer words?

Honesty.

Passion.

Reality.

Find an older, more seasoned person with those qualities and we've got what we need ... and what the **people** really want.

[Guaranteed]

60. Outstanding post.

That's exactly it.

But, the difference is that Hackett is fresh. He's new. He's the future, and he's a winner.

The old folks have spoiled. It's too late. They've already sold their integrity, for the most part.

It's not the resume- although that helps him quite a bit.

It's the personality and the positions. And in so many ways, even I have to admit that he does it better than Howard Dean.


Dean is Socrates, and Hackett is Plato.

[LandOLincoln]

76. Y'know, there's this guy...

"Find an older, more seasoned person with those qualities and we've got what we need ... and what the **people** really want."

...name of Wes Clark. You might want to give him a look.

[Beacho]

41. We are the saviors of the democratic party

"we" meaning everybody in the rank and file

That should be a choice in your poll

[faithfulcitizen]

47. I agree! :)

[Julius Civitatus]

45. Jon Stewart

He's showing more testicular fortitude than all the top dogs in the Dem. party combined.

[Guaranteed]

49. Just replaced the Clintons with him. nt

[LittleClarkie]

53. No one person. Dean plus everyone who wants to get on his bus

We will. As a group. Or we will not. Either way, I ain't going noplace.

[faithfulcitizen]

55. Not sure any 1 person is, but seriously...where's Wes?

:eyes:

[WhiteTara]

57. What a scary poll

I mean really, there is no one to save us. I guess we will have to all be Cindy and try and save us.

[Guaranteed]

64. Then vote for Cindy. nt

[Digit]

65. I disagree with the wording but....John Edwards is our man.

I believe John Edwards can win in 2008.
Part of my brain is purely logical and that side looks to Clarke, Kucinich, and Dean.
They are all intelligent men with a mission and I admire each and everyone of them in separate ways.
The other side of my brain knows that John Edwards has the only chance of beating the right wingers. He is one helluva smart guy with a gift. I noticed how people began supporting him in droves and was blown away. I listened to interview after interview and what I heard was that they BELIEVED in what he said. One speech and they BELIEVED in him. That is powerful stuff! I wish I could bottle that stuff!
You have to face it...people choose a package deal. John Edwards and his family are APPEALING, from his adorable children to his incredibly intelligent wife.
Unfortunately, too many Americans are not so swift and we may need to choose based on a likability factor.
If you think this odd, then consider that they chose * based on whom they could have a beer with. (Like he is a regular guy!)

[FrenchieCat]

66. If we don't save ourselves.....

then no one can!

There ain't no Santa Claus.

We each have a part to play. Some have bigger parts than others....but this will be a ensemble cast.

That's just the way it fucking is, I say!

[rman]

68. Someone else: us

[eridani]

80. Yes! We are the ones we have been waiting for!

Those who are filling the pipeline with candidates experienced at holding local office, those who are organizing and campaigning on their behalf, those who have pushed our existing Dem contingent in Congress to be 95% against CAFTA, compared with substantial NAFTA support 10 years ago. Those who show up.

[fujiyama]

72. You should have thrown in Hillary

;) just for posterity.

Anyways, I think it's too early to tell. Depending on how things will look after this point (say with the midterm elections and Bush's last quarter term), it could be any number of people - or it could be no one, if in the case, we actually lose even more seats in '06.

I would say that if Hackett can win the OH senate seat, the man clearly will be well on his way to a likely presidential run. Of course, if we do really well, much credit will have to be given to Dean as well for reinvigorating the party.

I think Jon Stewart is a very interesting pick, not necessarily in terms of the party, but as a savior of TV news, as a medium of rational discourse, rather than propaganda. In fact, other than Hackett, I haven't seen a better spokesperson for the left in a very long time.

[TreasonousBastard]

75. Who sez the Party needs "saving," because...

from where I sit we're in pretty good shape. A lot better than the Republicans were when Nixon got drummed out of office and they couldn't even pay their headquarters rent.

Here's the skinny as I see it--

The upheaval from the Dixiecrats switching parties is pretty much over. Don't forget where Strom Thurmond and a lot of other "Republicans" started and how they jumped party after Lyndon Johnson pissed them off with civil rights legislation-- made them forget Lincoln, he did. Only Zell Miller is left from that crew, and he's only here because he was too stupid to find the door. By now, we are a lot leaner but don't have to worry about those renegades screwing things up.

Our fundraising is really better than ever, thanks to Dean and other circumstances beyond his control. People are genuinely pissed at a lot of things, and money and support are coming our way. Sure, some of it is cynical Wall Street money, but it's still green. DLC haters might note that they are out there getting money, too, and they can get it from places Dean can't get into. And, some of their money just mind find its way into YOUR congressional district.

We don't run the Federal gummint, but we are within spitting distance of at least getting the house back if we stop bickering and start working on the campaigns next year. And, with the House, even if we don't have the Senate, we have a hell of a lot of power to throw at a lame duck President-like object.

We still run a lot of states and cities-- and we've got our fair share of Governors and state legislatures that are Democratically controlled. State government is the breeding ground for federal candidates, and we can support the good guys where we find them.

Yeah, it would be nice to find a charismatic leader who could lead us all to the Promised Land, but that rarely happens and even then usually only in a time of dire crisis. What we do have is a rising discontent with the way things are going, and the chance to find people with a message of hope and change to get into Congress next year.

[Totally Committed]

77. At the moment,

only Wes Clark, imo, can fill that bill.

I have believed for a few years now that he is the only Democrat that has the knowlege, the intelligence, the strength, the courage, and the moral authority to take the Presidency away from the Republicans, if given the chance. An added plus: He'd know what the heck to do with it once he had it.

His knowlege base is not only military in make-up. If you read any of his issue papers, you will see that his economic plans (one of his post-graduate drgrees is in Economics) and his plans for social concerns for everything from healthcare to women's issues to education are based solidly on Liberal Democratic ideals. When asked if he is a "Liberal", he doesn't shy away from the term, but proudly says he is a "Liberal" Democrat.

The word "savior" is the bugaboo here, I think. Too messianic, too "superhero" for some people. I don't see Wes as necessarily a "savior", but I believe he's the only one, at this moment, who can "save" this Party from itself, for all Americans. And, added bonus: he "belongs" to no corporate or special interest.

He loves this country and he loves his fellow Americans. He cares, he thinks, he feels, he knows, and he respects. That is a hell of a lot more than we get from the current President, and I submit, more than we get from the overwhelming majority of electeds in or own Party.

It's Wes Clark for me.

TC

[robcon]

78. HILLARY CLINTON!!!

She'll be the next president, and all will be well.

I think the idea that the poster, BullGooseLoony, didn't list her name is a reflection of the fact that democrats don't know their own strength.

[Guaranteed]

79. I had the Clintons listed.

But I took them down and replaced them with Jon Stewart.

[eggman67]

81. Nice collection of moderates there

Personally a Bayh/Clark ticket would make me very happy.

[milkyway]

82. George W. Bush.

He's doing more to help the Dems than anybody else right now.

[AAARRRGGGHHH]

83. Yes, the hero is ...

www.democraticunderground.com

[shance]

84. We watched saviors like JFK, MLK and Bobby Kennedy be killed.

and we did little if nothing to truly fight radically for justice to be heard and their legacy to be promoted, held sacred and pursued by other leaders.

We cannot expect to grow what we do not nurture.

We owe that to those leaders. We now owe it to ourselves and our future. We owe it to everyone who fought for these things we so often take for granted.

I believe this is now Americans' burden to bear. We abandoned our greatest leaders and we need to take them back and protect their legacy and more importantly the truth. They were killed by the essentially the same individuals who are selling off our own America to the highest bidder now.

We are living the reality of being 'fair weathered' Americans. We need to look at our history and change these patterns that are killing our nation.

Because we have not stood up and protected and/or raised the roof over our greatest leaders' deaths, we have few leaders willing to fully take on that role.

That is both the media's responsibility which whitewashed their deaths and Americans' responsibility for not fighting harder for truth and justice to be revealed.

Until we back up our leaders with the utmost strength, loyalty and conviction, we cannot expect those leaders to stand in front of a firing squad.

Leaders are only as strong as those who back them. They are only as strong as those who are willing to back them up and fight like those leaders have been willing to fight.

Democracy and any healthy government, is dependent on participation by all citizens, and an constant loyalty and quest for the truth.

[MintOreoCookie]

86. Russell Feingold