Looking for facts to refute someone knocking Chavez

[doodadem]

Somehow, we are having a major discussion on one of my professional forums, that started out talking about high gas prices. Of course, that ended up getting into drilling in ANWR, Pat Robertson's latest gaffe, and after I posted the article about Chavez offering to sell gas cheaply to the poor in the U.S., someone posted:

"The information below comes from the United Nations:

http://www.fao.org/FOCUS/E/SOFI/malV-e.htm

Venezuela - widespread poverty despite oil income

With substantial income from oil production, Venezuela is a highly urbanized country with enough food available to meet requirements. But poverty remains widespread, affecting almost half the population. And up to one-third of the children in some impoverished rural states show signs of repeated or prolonged periods of undernutrition.

On a national scale, a moderately low 15 percent of Venezuela's population is undernourished and rates of stunting, wasting and underweight among children are all low. However, between 20 and 36 percent of children suffer from stunting in several states in the south and east of the country where around two-thirds of the population falls below the poverty line.

Rising unemployment and high inflation have exacerbated the nutritional problems of the rural poor and especially indigenous people. More in-depth analysis is needed to identify pockets of poverty and malnutrition in the cities where around 85 percent of Venezuela's population lives.
............................................................

Why would Senior Chavez prefer to help the "poor" of the United States instead of helping his own people?

Why would he go so far to provide propagnada for the extreme left in the United States?

And I wonder what he's getting from Cuba in return for his generosity?

That Chavez, what a leader, what a humanitarian!"

I'd like to blow this guy out of the water! Recommendations?

[bowens43]

1. It's real simple.

he is the democratically elected president of his country. He's there because the majority of the people want him there. He has been elected ny the people twice and it's none of our damn business how they run their country.

[Roland99]

2. Easy:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=nifea&&sid=a3z63_HrIvtc

They seized boxes of records to build a case that San Ramon, California-based Chevron and 21 other energy companies owe Venezuela $3 billion in back taxes. The raid is part of President Hugo Chavez's push to squeeze more money out of foreign companies that want to pump oil from the world's fifth-largest petroleum exporter.

Since October 2004, he has raised heavy-oil royalty fees to as high as 30 percent from 1 percent, begun paying for some services in nonconvertible bolivares instead of U.S. dollars, and ordered oil well contracts converted into government-controlled joint ventures.

Chavez, 51, wants to use the revenue to pay for homes, clinics and schools for the 58 percent of Venezuelan families who live on less than $200 a month.

[shoelace414]

3. What makes the thought of Communism so bad

that we have to assassinate elected world leaders just to snuff out the possibility of it?

[EC]

13. Besides if it is a form of government that has proofed

to not work as all the neo's say, why does it bother them if a country wants to be communist, are they afraid that it may work better than capitalistic types?


Chevez, gives back the profits from oil to the people, isn't that the plan ** has been spewing for the Iraqi's? He (**)in his speeches brags about how the profits from oil will go back to the Iraqi's, hows that different from what Chevez is doing?

[go west young man]

4. I'd recommend checking out the Independent U.K.

Use thier search bar to find articles on Chavez. All these things are tied together for what he terms his Bolivarian revolution. He wants South America to free itself from the grip of U.S. special interests. Incidentally Venezuelas overall economy grew by 17% last year. The oil money goes into social programs and does help the poor. Like all major upheavals these things take time. Personally I think his reforms are a hell of a lot more sensible that U.S. imperial worldwide dominance and "The War On Terror" agenda that the Republicans use for political purposes.

[smoogatz]

5. Chavez inherited endemic poverty in Venezuala, he didn't invent it.

He's working on land reform (a tiny minority own almost all of the arable land in Venezuala) and trying to create a public infrastructure for helping the extremely poor. He's also doubled the royalty oil companies will have to pay to ship Venezualan oil, and earmarked those new funds to aid the homeless and hungry. So he's doing a LOT, in the face of open hostility from the U.S. government. The fact that he's offered to help poor people in America speaks more to his compassion than to propaganda, IMO.

[madrchsod]

6. don`t waste your time.

unless the person can think rationally , you will just waste your energy. plus i`m sure they do not want to listen to a history lesson on the us-south america problem.

[Extend a Hand]

7. Pat and Hugo: The Real Story - Part 1

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=452&row=0

This article by Greg Palast was posted yesterday and it is filled with facts.

[julianer]

8. Ok here's some answers

Chavez is helping the poor of Venezuela: there is a chain of shops with cheap food for poor people

Cuba has sent thousands of doctors to Venezuela in return for the oil. These doctors have brought free health care to millions of poor people for the first time. There are also many new Venezuelan doctors being trained in Cuba.

More info at: http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/

[whatever4]

9. How long has Chavez been in power?

Ya know, you asked for facts, so I'm going to edit this to say, I think I only provided opinions there. Sorry about that, don't want to hand you a(nother) time-wating post.

"With substantial income from oil production, Venezuela is a highly urbanized country with enough food available to meet requirements."

Yeah, that may be the case, that they have the income, but is it his fault things are in such a sorry state, at this time? Has Chavez been in power long enough to eliminate all those problems? Aren't they still a work in progress, constantly improving? Is it fair to expect anyone to have fixed those problems yet?

I don't think he prefers to help the US poor, but rather, that he wants to help all poor. He starts with his own. As far as us, well it's plain to see we're a rich nation being brought down by a greedy liar, and so, he can probably see we're in for tough times. I think it was more of a "yeah, and what's going to happen to YOUR people? You aren't even going to tell them how bad it is, are you, King George" I could be wrong, but that's how it came across to me. He offered to help us, cause...our government isn't, and he wanted to point it out.

Less an offer for help (though it may be sincere if anyone asks) than a pointed critisim about how poorly we're doing. In diplo-speak.

What's he getting from Cuba? Well, support against the US is my guess.

imho many nations of different governments will be joining together against the US, before all's said and done. Because when the monster at the gates is big enough, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Doesn't get any bigger than the US. That's pure guesswork on my part, but still probably more true than the BS our feds say about him.

Heck, he ought to be admired for standing up to the CIA and then the DEA thugs. He booted our feds right out of his country. So, I'd say, he must be a hell of an honest man.

What's so good about Chavez? He can't stand Bush; that already makes him a human being.

[bvar22]

15. IIRC, Chavez was ELECTED by an overwhelming MAJORITY in 1998.

His administration has been obstructed by the Very Wealthy Venezuelan Aristocracy with funding from Corporate sources in the US! In addition to battling the inherent inertia of an entrenched Plutocracy, most of the Venezuelan Government he inherited was overburdened with corruption.
He has also had to divert some attention to at least two Coup atttempts, a Nationwide Strike (lockout) by the Owners of the Oil Companies.

[Catrina]

10. I think the truth will blow him

out of the water. The privatization of a country's natural resources with the profits going to foreigners, is what causes poverty in the country.

That's what happened with Venezuela ~ Chavez is now turning that around to make the Venezuelan people the beneficiaries of Venezuela's oil revenues. That is why the Oil White House in Washington hates him. He is helping the poor in his own country and cutting into their profits in order to do so.

Ask your friend to point to a country in which the Bush administration has any interest, that does not have oil, or, like Afghanistan, access to oil?

And mostly, as someone else said, Chavez was elected by a majority of the people, his approval ratings in Venezuela are almost double what Bush's are here. What business is it of ours what the people of Venezuela do? Is there something in our Constitution that says that if we don't like what a country is doing, or its leaders, we are supposed to do something about it? Ask him to find that amendment in our Constitution ~

[rman]

11. answers

> Why would Senior Chavez prefer to help the "poor" of the United States instead of helping his own people?

Chavez can help both the poor in Venezuela and provide some help to the poor in the US (if the "free trade" RW will let him...).
It does take a while to fix the poverty created by decades of rule by a corporate elite.


> Why would he go so far to provide propagnada for the extreme left in the United States?

Chavez is "Left"; it's just that according to the RW, anyone left of center is "extreme".


> And I wonder what he's getting from Cuba in return for his generosity?

Doctors and medical training


> That Chavez, what a leader, what a humanitarian!"

Indeed.

[welshTerrier2]

12. this should help ...

read the article ... there are many more details about what Chavez has achieved ...

source: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Parenti/GoodThings_Venezuela.html

Far from ruining the country, here are some of the good things the Chavez government has accomplished:

* A land reform program designed to assist small farmers and the landless poor has been instituted-this past March a large landed estate owned by a British beef company was occupied by agrarian workers for farming purposes

* Education is now free (right through to university level), causing a dramatic increase in grade school enrollment

* The government has set up a marine conservation program and is taking steps to protect the land and fishing rights of indigenous peoples

* Special banks now assist small enterprises, worker cooperatives, and farmers

* Attempts to further privatize the state-run oil industry-80 percent of which is still publicly owned-have been halted and limits have been placed on foreign capital penetration

* Chavez kicked out U.S. military advisors and prohibited overflights by U.S. military aircraft engaged in counterinsurgency in Colombia

* "Bolivarian Circles" have been organized throughout the nation, neighborhood committees designed to activate citizens at the community level to assist in literacy, education, vaccination campaigns, and other public services

* The government hires unemployed men, on a temporary basis, to repair streets and neglected drainage and water systems in poor neighborhoods

[RethugAssKicker]

19. No wonder the "leader of the Christian Coalition' wants to kill

him. He's helping the poor like Jesus would have.

[bvar22]

14. President Hugo Chavez

President Chavez was elected twice by an overwhelming majority of the popular vote, and survived a "Recall" sponsored by Venezuelan Aristocracy and financed by US Money. The elections were verified by the Cater Center as "FREE & FAIR" (the Carter Center was unable to certify the 2004 US Elections). Chavez also survived several coup attempts, also financed by the US!


President Chavez has "diverted" a percentage oil profits to fund Housing, Education, and Medical Care for the poor.
President Chavez is using profits from the mining of Venezuela's Natural resources (Commonwealth) to:
*Feed the Hungry
*Heal the Sick
*Shelter the Homeless
*Educate the Poor
NO wonder the Republicans and Corporate Democrats HATE him!


From the OP:
"With substantial income from oil production, Venezuela is a highly urbanized country with enough food available to meet requirements. But poverty remains widespread, affecting almost half the population. And up to one-third of the children in some impoverished rural states show signs of repeated or prolonged periods of undernutrition."

While the statement may be true, it IS DECEPTIVE. Poverty is NOW DECREASING (2003-2004) under the Chavez administration. He INHERITED a severe problem, one that was getting WORSE. In the short time he has been in power, Chavez's policies have completely changed the direction of the problem of Poverty in Venezuela. The poverty situation in Venezuela is getting better!!!
The poverty situation in the US is getting WORSE!!
No wonder the Chavez Bolivar Revolution scares the CRAP out of the American Plutocrats!


Here are the FACTS that will counter the Anti-Chavez propaganda being disseminated by the RIGHT WING!

A February opinion poll released by Datanalysis — a company associated with Chavez’s opponents — found support for Chavez at 70.5%, an increase on the 60% support Chavez received in a August referendum. The reason for the growth can be guessed: Datanalysis found that 73% of the population had benefited from the social missions.

<snip>

Despite the progress, Venezuela still has a huge legacy of dire poverty to overcome. On June 5, Venezuela Analysis’s Jonah Gindin reported that a study by market research company Datos Information Resources identified a “dramatic impoverishment” of Venezuela over the
last 20 years. As a result of harsh neoliberal measures, since 1984 the number of poorest Venezuelans has increased from 40% to 58%, while the number of middle-and-upper-class Venezuelans has decreased from 28% to 4%. One direct cause was that government spending decreased almost 50% between 1987 and 1997.

The anti-Chavez opposition makes much of the fact, reported in the March 31 Miami Herald, that, by the end of 2004, the number of households living in poverty was greater than when Chavez was first elected in 1998 (53% up from 49%).

However, this ignores two important things. Firstly, poverty is now decreasing and the figure was lower in 2004 than 2003. Indeed, according to the Datos study, the living standards of the poorest 84% of Venezuelans, thanks to the missions and increases in the minimum wage, increased by one third last year, after inflation is taken into account.

<snip>

The Venezuelan economy grew by over 17% in 2004 and is set grow this year as well, with both unemployment and inflation decreasing. A crackdown on business tax evasion has increased government revenue, as has rising world oil prices, and a government push to recoup $4 billion. With these funds, the future looks brighter than ever for Venezuela’s poor majority."


http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/632/632p19.htm
Please read the rest of this article. The POLL Results and Economic Figures cited in this article are independently verifiable.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[bvar22]

16. Nominated

This thread is important.
The facts about Venezuela should be readily available to DU members since Chavez is under attack by the Slime Machine.
ALL the CorpoMedia are referring to Chavez as a dictator and a thug who has wrecked Venezuela.
NOTHING could be farther from the TRUTH!

[ArkDem]

17. I never liked Chavez after I started drinking single malts.

[ieoeja]

18. Another thing that might interest your friend.

While Chavez is, indeed, now the elected president of Venezuela, he had to oust a dictator to bring democracy to the country. Chavez had been a loyal general in the VZ military, but decided to oust the dictator after communist rebels had taken control of most of the country, even the heights overlooking the capital itself. Chavez's boss at the time refused to let him go out and fight the communists. His strategy was to fort up and hope the rebels would starve to death. As the only armed forces in the countryside, they would have just taken food from everyone else, so this strategy entailed starving EVERYONE in the country to keep the dictator and his cronies safe.

Chavez finally had enough. He overthrew the dictator, confiscated the food (owned by American corporations which is where the anti-American theme originates) from the warehouses then marched out into the country killing communists and feeding the populace.

After a couple years he voluntarily relinquished power to a constitutional government in which the people overwhelmingly elected him president. Rightwingers pushing the threat of rebellion forced Chavez to hold new elections in which his margin of victory was even greater. A coup undid democracy for two days until a pre-planned counter-coup toppled the two day dictatorship restoring the democratically elected government. Since then, domestic and foreign rightwingers (including the US government) have been doing everything they can to drive the economy down.

Case in point: my employers do more business in Venezuela each year than in the rest of Latin America combined, but lose money because the US has been driving down the value of Venezuelan money. The same corporations driving US policy towards VZ are suffering from the same losses, but are apparently too stupid to make this connection. Or they are willing to take temporary losses in the hopes they can restore a dictator. Bribes are cheaper than paying taxes.

Of course, those same US companies could make even more money if there was more of a middle class in VZ (and elsewhere) to consume their goods. But where some might see opportunity, those pushing our VZ policy only see risk.

[doodadem]

20. Thanks Guys!!!

I knew I could count on you!
I put together a post combining bits from everyone. We'll see how it plays.