If the DLC thread was locked due to...

[bee]

something I said...
Please allow me to apologize to any DU'er who was offended or felt insulted by my words. True and I firey and opinionated, but to attack or offend someone is never my intention.
Peace,
b~

[MisterLiberal]

1. However

if it was locked because we're supposed to just shut up and eat whatever the DLC spoon feeds us then that's screwed up.

[AtomicKitten]

2. No.

But this incessant obsession and paranoia about the DLC is just a teensy bit over-the-top. They are a faction of the left, nothing more, nothing less. They raise money and put out press releases. I would think the success of, for instance, the Paul Hackett campaign would make progressives feel confident that their grassroots efforts work. The DLC have every right to espouse their opinions, and their efficacy really depends on their message. It is clear Americans are damn sick and tired of the lies and war, and those not willing to take a stand will be left in the dust. The DLC will and already have rendered themselves irrelevant. This is simply an old, tiresome argument that continues to rage here at DU when there are more important issues to address.

Flame away.

[Q]

8. "They raise money and put out press releases"

You make the DLC sound like...some guys working out of their basement. But they are a small group of lobbyists that are well-financed by corporations looking to buy influence in the Democratic party. Hardly what one would call 'democratic'.

Do you really think that so many Democrats would spend time discussing the DLC if they were as unimportant and irrelevant as you make them out to be?

In fact...the DLC has enough power within the party to have 'arranged' for the last three presidential nominees to be one of their own. And it looks like they'll go for four in 2008.

[WCGreen]

9. So what does that tell you.....

That the DLC is effective at raising cash.....

I think with the amount of cash being raised out side of Washington, look at the HAckett race, should show you that democratic candidates can raise cash out side the beltway quite effectively.....

[Q]

12. The DLC doesn't 'raise cash'...

...in the traditional way. They get 'donations' from major corporations. They don't use this cash to help the Democratic party in general. It's used to promote ONLY DLC candidates and policies.

[renie408]

10. I have to add...

That the really psycho "the DLC is out to end the Democratic Party and LIFE AS WE KNOW IT!!" is offputting, to me at least. Last week I asked some sincere questions about the DLC and got some good answers. But I also got jumped for not immediately deciding that they were an evil influence on the Democratic Party. I have come to the conclusion that while I am not ready to call them the devil incarnate, I am also highly suspicious of them because while their espoused aims appear admirable, their press releases are a little dodgy to me. But since I said that they didn't seem all that bad and I asked skeptical questions of the people who were foaming at the mouth about the DLC, I was accused basically of being a DLC plant who already knew all about them and was on their side. I really didn't know ANYTHING about the DLC before last week other than that a lot of people here hate them and Bill Clinton was involved with them. And since I have always liked Bill Clinton (Yes, I am sure he is a Republican neocon in Dem's clothing, blah blah blah), I was curious to know more.

Anyway, I think that some rabid anti-DLC stuff can have the opposite effect of what the poster may intend. I was much more influenced and inclined to listen to the people who calmly pointed me in the direction of the information I had asked for and offered their opinions without vitriol.

[LittleClarkie]

4. No, just don't come at fellow DUers, inviting flames

and it would have been cool. Because it has already been established in other threads that DLC and the criticism thereof is in bounds.

But flamebaiting and calling out fellow members of DU is not.

Ya know?

[LittleClarkie]

3. It was locked because, rather than criticizing the organization

it was calling out, so to speak, fellow DUers who might support the DLC. That was the no no.

Criticize the DLC, or prominent DLCer politicians, but don't call out or flamebait fellow DUers.

[AtomicKitten]

5. Thanks for the tip ...

except you got it wrong.

I wasn't calling anyone out, I was simply stating I was prepared to be slammed as I have been repeatedly for trying to defuse the incessant paranoia about the DLC, not defending them, mind you, but pointing out what should be obvious and that is they are no longer relevant.

Capisci?

[Q]

11. Is it your right and responsibility...

...to chill discussions about the DLC? You can't 'defuse' a legitimate debate about the future of our party. Why would you even want to?

[Mairead]

7. 's funny, I didn't see any of that 'calling out'. Could you point it out?

(nt)

[Skidmore]

6. Gee whiz. I wake up to find I missed

a DLC argument. I'm gonna have to forgo sleeping in the future. Never know what I'll miss.

[Eloriel]

13. Where is said locked thread? I don't see it. Deleted?????

Can someone provide a link? Thanks.

[Mairead]

14. here you are

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2042042

[Eloriel]

15. Thanks. Wow -- righteous rant. Coulda written it myself.

I find the reason for locking quite interesting. I'll forego making any comment about it:

Locking
While discussion of the DLC and it's public figures is allowed, attacks on fellow DUers who may not agree with the anti-DLC sentiments are not.

[jonnyblitz]

16. that was a good rant.

I remember you used to have a good collection of info on the DLC you used to post back in the day also. :hi:

[Eloriel]

17. LOL -- Is than an invitation? Say no more .....

DLC
The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves. -- Lenin

How the DLC Does It, Robert Dreyfuss, TAP
http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/print/V12/7/dreyfuss-r.html

Behind the DLC Takeover - Democratic Leadership Council
John Nichols
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1295/is_10_64/ai_65952690/print


Democrats for Wolfowitz
(see esp. Tinoire's post #20) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1687818&mesg_id=1688529 )
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1687818&mesg_id=1687818&page=

LINKS - What every DUer and every Dem needs to know about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4443&forum=DCForumID22&archive=

Let's be REALLY honest about the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23262&forum=DCForumID60&archive=


Outing the "New Democrats" -- Pukes in Progressive Clothing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1435&forum=DCForumID34

Everyone who is a fan of the DLC, needs to read this post,
(Devils Advocate NZ's post is included)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=11323&forum=DCForumID60#114

Kerry, the New Democrats, and American Military Hegemony
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=326015#326061

Ask the questions NOW of the DLC and Clinton. Corporate funding.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1372759#1373432

New Dems formed to get corporate donors, be free from party base ideology.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1346735&mesg_id=1346735


(OMG! The PNAC/DLC Connection!)No More Moore: DLC Joins the Witch-Hunt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2784312
Link: http://nypress.com/17/48/news&columns/taibbi.cfm

"We've got to repudiate, you know, the most strident and insulting anti-American voices out there sometimes on our party's left... We can't have our party identified by Michael Moore and Hollywood as our cultural values."
— Al From, CEO, Democratic Leadership Council

"You know, let's let Hollywood and the Cannes Film Festival fawn all over Michael Moore. We ought to make it pretty clear that he sure doesn't speak for us when it comes to standing up for our country."
— Will Marshall, President of the Progressive Policy Institute, the think-tank of the DLC

>snip<

In addition to his duties as the president of the PPI, Marshall kept himself busy in the last few years. Among other things, he served on the board of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, an organization co-chaired by Joe Lieberman and John McCain whose aim was to build bipartisan support for the invasion of Iraq.

Marshall also signed, at the outset of the war, a letter issued by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) expressing support for the invasion. Marshall signed a similar letter sent to President Bush put out by the conservative Social Democrats/USA group on Feb. 25, 2003, just before the invasion. The SD/USA letter urged Bush to commit to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning."

One of just a handful of Marshall's co-signatories on that letter was Bruce Jackson, who also happens to be the head of the PNAC (whose letter Marshall also signed) and the founder of the aforementioned Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. Jackson is not only a neo-con of high rank and one of the chief pom-pom wavers for the war effort. He was also a vice president in the weapons division of Lockheed-Martin between 1993 and 2002—meaning that he was one of the implied targets of Bowling for Columbine, which came out in Jackson's last year with the company.

Clearly, Marshall was thinking about the good of the Democratic Party, and not the integrity of his grimy little network of missile-humping cronies, when he and Al From made the curious—and curiously conspicuous—decision to denounce Moore, Hollywood and France at the DLC meeting in early November.


RIGHT WEB: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/ppi.php

Overview of DLC
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/marshall/marshall.php

PPI
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/ppi.php

=====================
Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."
http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/print/V12/7/dreyfuss-r.html


===================================================
WILL MARSHALL: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/marshall/marshall.phpAlthough



Marshall calls himself a "centrist," he has associated himself with neoconservative organizations and their radical foreign policy agendas. At the onset of the Iraq invasion, Marshall signed statements issued by the Project for the New American Century calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein, advocating that NATO help "secure and destroy all of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction," and arguing that the invasion "can contribute decisively to the democratization of the Middle East." (7)

Marshall's credentials as a liberal hawk have been well established by his affinity for other PNAC-associated groups, including the U.S. Committee on NATO and the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. Marshall served on the board of directors of the U.S. Committee on NATO alongside such leading neocon figures as Robert Kagan, Richard Perle, Randy Scheunemann, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Peter Rodman, Jeffrey Gedmin, Gary Schmitt, and the committee's founder and president Bruce Jackson of PNAC. (8) At the request of the Bush administration, PNAC's Bruce Jackson also formed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which, with DLC chairman Joseph Lieberman serving as co-chair together with John McCain, aimed to build bipartisan support for the liberation, occupation, and democratization of Iraq. Marshall, together with Robert Kerrey (who coauthored Progressive Internationalism), represented the liberal hawk wing of the Democratic Party on the committee's neocon-dominated advisory board. (9) Other advisers included James Woolsey, Elliot Cohen, Newt Gingrich, William Kristol, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Joshua Muravchik, Chris Williams, and Richard Perle.

On February 25, 2003, Marshall joined an array of neoconservatives marshaled by the Social Democrats/USA-a wellspring of neoconservative strategy-to sign a letter to President Bush calling for the invasion of Iraq. Marshall and others asked the president to "act alone if that proves necessary" and then, as a follow-up to a military-induced regime change in Iraq, to implement a democratization plan. The SD/USA letter urged the president to commit his administration to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning." Others signing the SD/USA letter included Hillel Fradkin, Rachelle Horowitz, Bruce Jackson, Penn Kemble, Robert Kagan, James Woolsey, Nina Shea, Michael Novak, Clifford May, and Ben Wattenberg. (10) (11)

[Eloriel]

19. And here are some more recent DU discussions

I've been collecting:

Sirotablog: DLC helps spread claim that 'progressives destroyed America'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2034042&mesg_id=2034042
Link: http://www.workingforchange.com/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=EAF73B35-9903-A67D-D4CD06995808AC7D

The DLC is still going after "Dean's folks". "Negative" "rarified"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2033571
Link: http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253471&kaid=86&subid=84

Changing the party's philosophy without the consent of the majority.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2023660&mesg_id=2023660
Link: http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=127&subid=171&contentid=955

From the DLC website and their own words
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4414517
Link: http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=127&subid=171&contentid=955

If the DLC broke away from the Democratic Party...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4416477#4417166

The Third Way and Democrats for Life.... and women's rights.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2017353
Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8770089/site/newsweek/
Link: http://www.sentinel.org/articles/2005-33/14146.html

Here's a link to an article that spells out the entire DLC agenda.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1972163&mesg_id=1975703
Link (Dreyfuss article): http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/print/V12/7/dreyfuss-r.html

The New Republic is teaming with the Third Way Democrats...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2010996&mesg_id=2010996

Will Marshall in 2002 put down need for Medicare and Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1962881
Link: http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251076&kaid=125&subid=165

Want to know the DLC's agenda for America? Here it is
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1956563#1956728

Valuing Patriotism
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253472&kaid=124&subid=307


Anyone hear Vilsak (new DLC Head) use the term "Progressive Centrists?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1934742#1934779

DLC candidates lost us a dozen Southern Senate seats in just 2 years.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1725190

[Mairead]

18. "I find the reason for locking quite interesting."

I, too. I looked and looked, but couldn't find any examples of such attacks.

[Moderator]

20. Locking this.

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