Gas Shortages All Over the Southeast. NO Reason for it at All!!

[Roland99]

There are stations in Georgia and Kentucky running out of gas.

This is BULLSHIT!

Our economy should not be so frail that a couple days of shutting down the port of New Orleans results in gas outages and panic and incredibly high gas prices.

I smell collusion and conspiracy.

[SteppingRazor]

1. Not just the port of NO...

half of all refineries in the U.S. are on the Gulf Coast. Not to mention the oil industry in the Gulf.

[Eloriel]

18. Right now, it's not even the refineries -- it's the pipeline deliveries

I happen to live near one affected. The two names are Colonial and Plantation, and they have pipelines that pump to Georgia, NC and on up (you can probably find a map -- I think I remember seeing on on the Plantation website once upon a time).

I have heard 2 different explanations: one on CNBC that there is no electricity in Louisiana so there's no pumping and they're going to try to get and use generators, and the other (posted here somewhere?) that the refineries from which the gas is pumped are damaged. I don't know which or if both is true.

However, Georgia was said to have only 10 days supply at any given time anyway. We've already had 2-3 days of no resupply, so if there's any panic buying, or extra usage (such as the 500 semi-trucks my DH heard were leaving Atlanta loaded with supplies for the region), I can see where there could be a problem.

[sarcasmo]

2. Bevis and Butthead in the White House just love the high gas prices.

This is just the initial panic. It is the direct result of no leadership.

[bluestateguy]

3. But it is

In Arizona last year one refinery or pipeline (I forget which) shut down and there was a gas shortage all over the state.

[Sequoia]

4. And they voted for Bush, but are the first to be hit.

[Julius Civitatus]

5. Pure and simple GREED driving price GOUGING

:(

[htuttle]

6. Our energy infrastructure is a lot more fragile than people realize

There was a new philosphy adopted by retail businesss of all kinds in the 90's called 'Just in Time' stocking. Basically, it means you don't keep much at the store, whether it's fuel or candy bars or women's clothes. They just reorder constantly, and assume the deliveries will arrive in time.

Works great when it works -- inventory sucks (it sucks money, time and storage resources). The less inventory you keep on hand (on site), the more money you have to play with.

That is, until the system hiccups a bit. Then you find yourself out of everything before you know it. And it's not just retailers that have adopted this strategy. Manufacturers use it as well. Which means that if GM doesn't get it's widgets delivered at the right time, the whole assembly line shuts down within a day (or within hours in some cases).

At least that's been my appraisal of the situation. I've been expecting this sort of thing to happen for a few years.

And you think the gasoline infrastructure is fragile? Look at natural gas, it's much worse. They don't really store it anywhere. It's almost as if the gas is in motion from the time it comes out of the wellhead in Canada somewhere, to the moment it comes out of the burners on your stove. Won't take very much to disrupt natural gas supplies at all. At least that's how I understand it.

[Roland99]

8. That works fine for a seat manufacturer for Ford or GM but...

not for the backbone liquid of our economy!

[OhioBlue]

10. Good point - also the electric grid

look at a couple of years ago when one failure (around NY - I think) shut down parts of the East Coast, mid West and Canada - Cleveland was under black out and the pumps to pump the water and waste water treatment plants didn't have enough back up generators - one failure in the grid almost left people without clean water and over flows of the waste water treatment plants.

[SlipperySlope]

7. My prediction

Short term:
1: The flow of gasoline into the southeast has been disrupted.
2: Everybody knows that the flow has been disrupted.
3: People respond by filling their tanks "while they can".
4: This quickly depletes the remaining stocks.
5: Gas stations either
(a) run out of fuel
(b) raise prices to slow depletion

Longer term:
A: World-wide oil supply not significantly impacted.
B: US refinery capacity reduced by 15-20 %
C: Supply network will adapt; gas will be routed to southeast.
D: Prices will stabilize 15-20% higher than pre-Katrina.

Therefore, if you live in the Southeast.

i. You really should get what you NEED immediately
ii. Expect more gas stations to go dry in the next 2-3 days
iii. Expect prices to spike to $5.00 - $8.00 in the next 2-3 days
iii. Expect gas to start trickling in next week.
iv. Expect prices to be around $4.00 a gallon next week
v. Expect prices to fall to around $3.60 by the end of September.

[PurityOfEssence]

12. That's a nice level-headed assessment

These things follow very predictable patterns if one pays attention, and obviously you do. I think some of your numbers may be a tad off, but who's to say? There was already a report of self-serve gas in Atlanta at $4.99/gallon, and I think we were heading for a sizable spike anyway. Once that psychological barrier of $4.00/gallon is breached, I think we may well stay there.

Junior has another fine excuse for all sorts of crap to happen, and he's sure to use it. The psychological barrier of $5.00/gallon is probably much worse, and they'll probably do all they can to hold the line. Excuse boy will cite this storm until we're sick of ever hearing the name.

Now then, what if the area gets hit again? What about a third time?

[Blue Belle]

23. Hurricane season isn't over yet....

If prices (and I'm not just talking about gas) are high in Florida and the rest of the Southern States now... just wait until the next storm.

[beetbox]

9. Solutions-Read On

The fact is that the US still pays half for gas what the European nations do. The problem is that the US has no mass transit as the Europeans do, thanks to the dismantling of public rails in the 30s-40s-50s by GM, Firestone, Big Oil etc. Solution? Easy but the gluttonous consumer of fossil fuels in McAmeriWalMartika feels he/she has a divine right to the rest of the worlds resources and as we see this requires much carnage to prop up the US "lifestyle" with a big Military Machine which itself requires MINDBOGGLING amounts of fuel. Chasing your tail. Oh yeah, with the $800 Billion/year (not the stated and still more than the rest of the world combined $480 Billion per year) you could EASILY fund public transport infrastructure eliminating need for copious amounts of petrol use. You would create meaningful UNION jobs that provided BENEFITS. You could also fund, by slashing the bloated Pentagon Budget (Read Dick Cheneys looting the National Treasury), health care for everyone.

The fact is the OIL IS RUNNING OUT and AMERICANS are OILOHOLICS.
Natural gas prices are to go up by minimum of 40% this winter (actual figure is closer to 55% but I wish to understate) again due to high demand and diminishing supplies.

I have been studying and researching this for 4 years now, Peak Oil. Yes, the oil companies are gouging us, it's what they do, but it is not the primary reason for the rise in oil prices and accompanying rise in gas prices.

You will, at this time next year, be yearning for the good old days when gas was only $2,75/gallon.
It is time for a mass awakening, can the sleepy Americans see it is their own Military-Industrial Complex that is eating them, as well as the rest of the world, alive?

1. Insist on complete transparancy of the world's oil reserves and production on a well by well basis.
2. Make national energy independence a national economic and security goal
3. Create an energy efficiency ethic in society that abhors wasteful behaviors
4. Raise fuel economy standards for passenger cars and trucks - encourage adoption of hybrids, electric plug-ins and other more sustainable automobile designs
5. Re-institute the 55 mph speed limit for maximum efficiency
6. Decrease traffic through better design, congestion pricing, more telecommuting, staggered start hours, off-peak commuting incentives carpooling, etc.
7. Invest in building and maintaining mass transit systems to connect as many communities as possible.
8. Invest in the national passenger and freight rail infrastructure
9. Revise building codes for maxiumum energy efficiency
10. Encourage walking, biking, line skating and all forms of self propelled transportation through clearly marked lanes and public awareness campaigns.
11. Encourage local food production, urban green gardens, farmer markets.
12. Generate as much local power as possible from solar, wind, biomass, hydro/tidal and other sustainable forms of energy



Vital Signs Fact of the Week

Planes Utilize Most Fuel During Takeoff

The world's airlines use some 205 million tons of aviation fuel (kerosene) each year, producing greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxides, ozone, sulfur dioxide, and methane. Jet fuel is the second-largest expense to airlines after labor and can amount to 20 percent of companies' operating expenses.

[Roland99]

13. Europe is a completely different dynamic:

In Europe, there is not the suburban/exurban expansion like here in the states. Cities have much denser population ratios. That allows for mass transit to be more cost-efficient and useful. It also allows for shorter commutes so less gas is used. Even allows for cycling as most cities have bicycle lanes marked off (at least in Belgium.)

Also, Europe is VERY socialistic compared to the U.S. They have national healthcare, education, unemployment, etc.

We have none of that.

[beetbox]

20. Single Use Zoning

rammed through every place in US by greedy developers and their public servants.

And now we are stuck in the cul de sac of Suburbia.

This is coming on us fast. It's time for people to demand big changes, not ask-demand, from their state and local officials.

Everywhere you look you see the same energy intensive development model carrying on as if nothing were the matter.

[OneTwentyoNine]

14. We only pay less than the UK because of taxes,not the fuel price...

In fact if their price is around 5.50-5.75 per gallon. they pay less for the actual fuel than I do here in the midwest.

Regular unleaded in the UK carries a tax of $3.36 PER GALLON as compared to .36 cents per gallon in Kansas for State and Fed Tax. Their not getting royally ripped off on the price of fuel like everyone thinks,their getting ripped off by their government on the tax on gas. Hell of alot of difference there....

[beetbox]

19. Definitely- we must change our transportation sector

We need higher gas taxes, contrary to the popular thought, and we need that tax to go into massive public transportation renewal.

Problem is that in the present Admin the higher gas tax would be embezzled by Becthel.

This is going to take a fire in the soul from the American People. Are we up to it?

[cornermouse]

11. Wasn't there something yesterday about Bush saying

that we invaded Iraq to keep the terrorists from getting and controlling the oil? ...Nice timing on his part.

[htuttle]

15. "The terminal is out of gas"

I just heard this from the manager of a gas station here in Wisconsin on my way home. I'm assuming he's talking about the gas terminal at the Port of Milwaukee, since we're in Madison.

The gas station (a BP station) still had gas, but they apparently don't know when they will be able to get another load. I figure it will just about last to the end of the week if they can't.

So I'd expect that severe shortages will show up all over the country by this weekend if they can't get things moving again. Going to be an interesting Labor Day...

We're going to stock up on canned goods tomorrow, just in case. Couldn't hurt, and they keep forever anyway.

[davepc]

16. Didn't Carter create the Strategic Oil Reserve for situations like this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. The pipelines are down, no electricity

that is why there are gaa shortages

[Roland99]

21. No strategic gas supplies?

No alternative distribution methods?

[Roland99]

22. Reports of $4.41/gallon in Louisville...Shell station...unknown location