Could someone explain Posse Comitatus to me?

[redwitch]

Please.

[IndyOp]

1. In brief, I believe:

It means that federal troops cannot be used to 'police' US citizens, that is - the President cannot use the US military against/to control US citizens.

:kick:

On edit: Emphasize 'can not'

[redwitch]

2. Can or can't?

I'm still confused. Do you mean that he can suspend Posse Comitatus and use troops against US citizens?

[Robertwf]

3. posse

Can NOT. he has to let the governor of each state call out their own militias

[redwitch]

5. OK

Got it, thanks. But hired thugs ie Blackwater can be used????

[BlueEyedSon]

7. I was just going to post that (POTUS can contract w/Blackwater for that

purpose)....

[redwitch]

8. I am really scared.

How can this be happening here? Dear God, this is like a nightmare from which I cannot awaken. Mercenaries patrolling the streets of an American city, how have we come to this? The Bush Administration has to go. We cannot wait 3 more years, I can't even imagine the further damage they will inflict on the US and the rest of the world.

[tocqueville]

9. Blackwater type "organisations" are illegal in what I know of

all other Western countries. Even civilian vigils cannot be armed (with guns).

In a true democratic country with a state of law ONLY the State has the right to exercise violence, since the state is the legal representative of ALL citizens.

If you start arming PRIVATE INTERESTS, you'll go back to a feudal society.

[The Magistrate]

6. Cannot, Ma'am

It was a live issue at the time of the country's founding: in england of that time, there was no police force as we know them now, and the army was also the police arm, in instances of unrest for any cause short of revolution. The distaste of the gentlemen who wrote the Constitution for standing armies relates to this as well. It was felt that a militia, being essentially the citizenty itself in arms, would not be a reliable instrument for acting against the people if they were expressing a widely felt grievance, while a corps of military professionals would have no qualms at all in such an instance....

[IndyOp]

4. Here you are - the first looks to be the actual text, the next perspective

20 Stat. L., 145

June 18, 1878

CHAP. 263 - An act making appropriations for the support of the Army for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, eighteen hundred and seventy-nine, and for other purposes.

SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

<http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm>
==============================================================

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

<http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html>

[philarq]

10. An explanation with links

Posse Comitatus is a latin phrase meaning "possible force"

The Posse Comitatus Act is a federal law of the United States (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed in 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, and was intended to prohibit Federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states. It generally prohibits Federal military personnel and units of the United States National Guard under Federal authority from acting in a law enforcement capacity within the United States, except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or Congress. Coupled with the Insurrection Act the powers of the federal government to use the US military for law enforcement are limited and delayed.

The original act only referred to the Army, but the Air Force was added in 1956 and the Navy and Marine Corps have been included by a regulation of the Department of Defense. This law is mentioned whenever it appears that the Department of Defense is interfering in domestic disturbances.

There are a number of exceptions to the act. These include:

• National Guard units while under the authority of the governor of a state;
  
  
• Troops when used pursuant to the Federal authority to quell domestic violence as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles riots;
  
  
  
• The President of the United States can waive this law in an emergency;
  

In December 1981 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies—including the Coast Guard—especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance) while generally prohibiting direct participation of Department of Defense personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews.

Under 18 USC 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threat involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a Nuclear or Radiological weapon. Such assistance may be by any personnel under the authority of the Department of Defense, provided such assistance does not adversely affect US military preparedness.

The relevant legislation is as follows:

Sec. 1385. - Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

more at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm
http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.factsheets&factsheet=5

[RallyInDC]

12. Didn't he use the exscuse of a Louisiana uprising....

As a way to enforce martial law??

[TomClash]

11. Here's my simple version

The Posse Comitatus Act was passed around 1870(?) to prevent the US Marshals from calling in the US Army to do federal law enforcement, which is what it specifically prohibits without an Act of Congress or direct Constitutional authority. A lot of subsequent exceptions were passed, of which the Insurrection Act and particularly Title V of the Stafford Act are most important in the context of Katrina.

Read Section V of the Stafford Act. It gives the President VERY broad powers in the event of a natural disaster, once a state of emergency is declared by the Governor.

Bush's story is simply bullshit.

[Dan]

13. another way of thinking about this is

That local police can not force military (on active duty - during vacation, at home, etc.) personnel to assist them in any way shape or form.