the REAL reason the dems keep losing...

[dR. O]

now this is merely one man's opinion but I feel the primary problem with the democratic party is the pushing of what I call the 'PC UTOPIAN' agenda. Political correctness is a nice utopian idea but utopia has no basis in reality. For example, it is not 'PC' to tell an obese patient to exercise more and eat less and in fact there is currently a case where a physician is being sued for doing that. Now the REALITY is that there is a widespread obesity epidemic in this country and obesity is a major HEALTH problem that increases one's risk of diabetes, coronary artery disease, cancer, stroke, chronic hip/leg pain, depression, etc. So though it may hurt someone's ego it is the physicians job to tell the patient what they can do to help themselves get better. There are many other examples I could give. The point is sure utopian ideals are nice to strive for but reality is harsh and many many times directly conflicts with the utopian agenda. end of rant

[opihimoimoi]

1. So I guess we give up on Reality and suck for the BS...figures.

[Gyre]

2. Really? That's the reason we lost in '00, '02 and '04?

Wow! Why didn't I think of that? Too many fat patients and some damn trial lawyers that'll sue anybody. I shoulda known.

Gyre

[dR. O]

5. no

i never said that....here are several other examples...

all smokers know their doctor SHOULD tell them to quit smoking
all alcoholics know their doctor SHOULD tell them to quit drinking
and all obese people SHOULD be told to eat less/exercise more but many don't because they fear those lawyers you mentioned

[renie408]

63. Are you talking about the doctor that told the woman...

that she would likely out live her husband and find herself fat, unattractive and alone? I didn't think he got in trouble for telling her she was fat, he got in trouble for the WAY he tried to scare her into losing weight. I am going to see if I can find a link that will remind me of exactly what he said.

As for all that 'utopian PC' crap...well, I think its crap. I am a fairly rabid Democrat and am not particularly PC.

[CottonBear]

3. So, what would you tell an obese patient regarding their weight & health?

BTW, are you the GFY Cheney dude? If so, congratulations.

[librechik]

4. dR.O--Dems lose nowadays because Republican cronies

own the voting machine companies. They make sure the vote is counted the way they want. There are "backdoors" in the Gems tabulators at the county level. We never had a chance.

I think the idea that PC killed us is true--but only because hate radio and conservative pundits in general used the ambiguous phrase as a cudgel to smear us and keep us out of the discourse. They have the advantage nowadays--they have used "PC" to shame us into silence. But what is really wrong with wanting to allow diversity and silence hate speech? That kind of awareness has improved people's lives.

I don't think giving people something to eat and a roof over their head is a utopian ideal. I think it's quite real and we could easily afford it if we had our priorities straight.

[dR. O]

7. well

I would use the recent ruling of the court in California that the pledge of allegiance is 'unconstitutional' as a prime example of the PC UTOPIAN ideal spinning out of control bc the average American hears that and they will never support such a ridiculous decision. Here is a simple 'GOD' concept that I came up with....

SOMETHING created EVERYTHING and so whatever that unknown SOMETHING may be it should be called "GOD"

and since all the major religions have their 'GOD' as the creator of everything that is a common ground definition of 'GOD' that should be acceptable to all religions AND atheists. so that is why I call that my 'Unifying Theory of God'

[pop goes the weasel]

23. you may be a doctor

but you are obviously neither a linguist nor a philosopher. "Creator" implies intent. Intent implies intelligence. That would be god/s. Atheists don't believe in god/s. It isn't "political correctness" that moves atheists to protest against a required religious affirmation in schools and public places. It's the desire to not be singled out.

I'm speaking as an atheist. You have no idea how wearing it gets to always "conveniently" be in the restroom during the pledge of allegiance in order to avoid the nastiness that comes when people realize you didn't sieg heil with the rest of them.

If you had any historical knowledge of Christianity, you would also know that the reason the early Christians came under scrutiny by
Roman authorities was a pledge. Well, in their case, a public sacrifice to the pagan gods. When they refused to do it, they were accused of being immoral and unpatriotic. You know, sort of like atheists who refuse to say the pledge.

[flaminbats]

25. California courts make a ruling, then I vote Republican..

sorry, but most people don't base any vote for or against a politician on a single court ruling.

Even if Roe v. Wade had kept abortion illegal..how many Republicans would now be Democrats? If God created everything, then he surely deserves some credit for political correctness...whoops, no insult intended!!! :dunce:

[NNadir]

6. Gee, and I thought it was Diebold.

[dR. O]

8. well

there is a very simple way to fix the problem with the voting machines and that is to require a DNA sample for every vote i.e. one citizen=one swipe of the finger(dna sample)=one verifiable vote i.e. no cheating

[OzarkDem]

15. You're kidding, right?

[OneTwentyoNine]

31. Huh?? Its not in the people,its in the tabulator on the Diebold machines..

All you have to do is give Bush 1.10 votes per vote and POOF instant winner. This has nothing to do with people voting five times,it has to do with the way those rigged up Diebold machines add up votes.

They can be manipulated,and very easily. Do you need them everywhere?? Hell no,only in battleground states,which are known months if not years before a Presidential election.

[Peggy Day]

70. Amen brother

Everyone needs to stop being so defensive-we won. We have just been taken over (a coup) via voting machines and evil stupid people.

[Awsi Dooger]

9. The basics as I see them

A huge chunk of ignorant white males will never vote Democratic because they view it as the weak party. That's why our nationwide ceiling is very low in federal races. Still, we could overcome that problem until thoughtful white females got scared due to 9/11 and a small but critical percentage are now voting national security. Plus the Emerging Democratic Majority dynamics got derailed or delayed when Hispanics similarly detoured to the GOP post 9/11.

Rescuing a segment of the Hispanics and especially white females is paramount to any hopes we have in '06 and '08. It can be done, but I'm never underestimating fear as the most basic trump card. The GOP owns it, and the party honchos understand that bigtime.

[wellstone_democrat]

10. over-hyped PC myth

Being in Texas I find that the people who complain the most about PC are really pissed that they can't use such picturesque terms as "colored" (no joke, I hear it all the time from students) because the subjects under discussion don't particularly like the term. Not any more than if you decided to call me "Bob" which ain't MY name. I hear students at my very conservative U complain about this all the time---what I wonder is what they feel they are being *prevented* from saying. Bet it was a term that was *never* considered "polite"
As to your main complaint, I doubt that patient was some wild-eyed liberal!!!!! Psych case maybe, "utopian" PC maniac? I doubt it.

As to law suits? I can file a suit in court against you right now for irritating me and call it assault (or slander or battery---sorry, my doctorate is in classics not law). All I need is the filing fee. One student tried to sue me for a C (it was a gift actually) and if he wasn't lazy about that I would have the expense and burden of the nuisance suit. A colleague in English lit has been filed on at his elite private college *ten* (count 'em 10!) times in the last five years. He's been threatened with it every term since he started teaching in 1974 as a TA! What can ya do?

People are assholes. The only utopian I know is also a brain damaged 60s type old hippie in Oregon. I don't think he's driving the national culture, although these days. Who knows?

I worry more about the active evil of someone like that walking lump of human excrement Cheney or that murderer Bush* than whether some dilletante on a news panel is in a swoon over some slight.

/rant :evilgrin:

Regards to you,
Dr. W_D

[TheStates]

11. I agree on some level....

Political correctness is a problem when you're telling people how to behave. Of course, now the R's are doing the same thing and not following their own rules.

So I see it a neccesary concept to focus on the stationary values, like building up the workforces for the poor and helping healthcare. And getting rid of tax cuts plus the welfare programs, using a true progressive agenda.

The corporate nonsense, political correctness doesn't fly. Every democrat should get on the same springboard as Howard Dean, that's what we are heading towards....Alternative energy, independence, and breakthroughs in better taking care of eachother and supplying the needs we all require. Such as food, water, and freedom of religion and practice.

But most of all......the Diebold type machines have to go. That way the outcomes of elections really will matter.

[bluedawg12]

12. Doc- it's multi-factorial.

Like any disease the etiology is often a cascade of prior disease and co-morbidities.

Specifically-

They began bashing liberals overtly under Raygun

They poured millions into think tanks to form and package their agenda.

They hired marketers: viz a viz: note Democrats have program cons have "initiatives" little things like that discriminate between Coke and Pepsi- they branded themselves as honest and pragmatic and labeled us as liberal, Hollywood elite...etc...quiche eaters..remember?

They created a fake cultural war.

They frightened mid-America with wedge issues: You know first it was gays and aids, then stem cells, cloning, evolution, godlessness vs godly, etc.

They used grass roots "cells" via religious groups, churches and pastor's preached on their behalf.

They spent tons of money.

They fought a dirty campaign: Dukakis was savaged as was McCain.

They picked an iconic brand name and fed him lines.

The 2000 Florida election nightmare, the Brooks Bros. rebellion, Katherine Harris, the supreme decision. Remember that?

Gosh, it goes on and on.

I agree with this, we need to get a down to earth message, short and sweet that hits the gut and spells it out for busy men and women who are trying to pay the bills, raise their kids and are not as focused as most of us here on politics, but just want a safe, strong nation and good government and cheap gas, family picnics, and a good life.

Phew ..done. fini.

Peace.

[OzarkDem]

13. Do you have a link?

With some specific examples? I can't think of any time I've ever heard a Dem, elected or otherwise, say that doctors shouldn't tell people to change their lifestyles if its a risk to their health.

Aren't Republicans the ones who complain about people restricting smoking in public places?

Sounds like you've been watching too much FAUX tv.

[OnionPatch]

77. I would like to see that too

and I don't know a single liberal who would not defend a DOCTOR's right to tell a patient he/she were obese.

[zalinda]

14. Sorry, but I disagree

PC is not something that any of the doctors I've been to have ever heard of. And I don't think that's the dems problem either.

With the obese patient, it's the hopelessness of it. Most have been on tons of diets, and they don't work. If they worked, no one would be obese. With a drug user or an alcoholic, they can quit their problem. But, people need to eat, and they really don't know how to eat. Every where there is conflicting data on what people can or can't eat. And, believe it or not, there are many people who don't eat a lot, and are still heavy. If doctors want their patients to lose weight there has to be guidance. I've found a terrific book, and it's helped me lose weight relatively easy. But, I had to do the research, my doctor didn't help me at all.

And, if you want to read what the dems are doing wrong, go to http://taxwisdom.org/republican_nemesis.htm and check it out. Of course, there may be more, but this is a good start.

zalinda

[Skittles]

16. and...........how is this connected to Democrats?

it is f***ing republicans telling me I HATE AMERICA/AM UNPATRIOTIC because I dislike bush and his f***ing war - *THAT* is "PC" RUN AMOK

[flaminbats]

17. I knew someone who had diabetes..

he was 95 pounds and over six-feet tall, a walking skeleton!! he ate and ate and ate, but kept losing weight. then he started taking insulin, and his life slowly got better.


The last thing Democrats need to do is make life even harder for the average taxpayer, isn't it hard enough with Republicans in power? People with diabetes can't afford insulin, people with terminal cancer can't earn money, and people with heart problems don't need to pay even more just for seeing a doctor! Democrats will not win by being political physicians, they can win by campaigning on universal healthcare..so people can get this advice from a physician without going into debt!!

Democrats lose because they refuse to publicly criticize the Republican Congress and Bush's inability to manage our government. Criticizing voters and providing personal tips on how to live would make us no different from the RNC.

[bluedawg12]

18. That FMD told the woman that she was so fat that no man

other than her husband would want to have sex with her.
I think that's what pissed her off and she reported him the the State's A.G.

If the statement was true, that wasn't failure to be P.C. it was beyond advising on heart healthy life style- it crossed the line.

[leftofthedial]

19. real reason? 2000 was a coup

well planned

well executed

[bluedawg12]

20. What did an offended patient have to do with Dems and PC?

I am trying to track this a bit:

Here is good summary from a blog as to why other people would agree with patient:

http://www.sugarshockblog.com/2005/08/doctor_in_troub.html

"But commenting on woman's (un)attractiveness and her chances of becoming a widow (maybe she loves her husband and is afraid to loose him; maybe his comments distressed her because she imagined loosing him) is both unprofessional and inappropriate. Even if it was said in private: the doctor is not a husband, father or a close friend to offer 'private' comments about one's attractiveness to opposite sex and especially the probability of outliving a husband. Yes, we talk to doctors of private matters, but only if these private matters are health-related; our marriage prospects and our statistical chances to outlive our loved ones don't belong in this category, IMHO. One's marriage prospects is also not something a doctor is qualified to comment on - he is not running a matchmaking business. This type of comments is just as likely to 'shock' someone to loose weight as to distress someone into eating more. I have to say also that his comment was just plain stupid: it talks about what might or might not happen for many years to come, it assumes that the woman even wants to look for another husband if her husband dies. "

Here is more on the good Doctor:

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=59788

Dr. Bennett accused of advising patient to shoot herself

The New Hampshire Board of Medicine yesterday set a disciplinary hearing on two complaints filed against Dr. Terry Bennett charging him with misconduct and disrespectful and unprofessional behavior.

One complaint charges he spoke to an obese female patient about her condition in a way that caused her distress and embarrassment. The other complaint, which was filed in 2001, said Bennett advised another female patient to buy a pistol so she could commit suicide to end her physical suffering.

[bluedawg12]

21. Racial slurs and fat slurs from NH Doc.

Hey, I want my doc to tell me to lose weight, but I don't give a good goddamned about who or what he thinks I will attract sexually.

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=59788

Dr. Bennett accused of advising patient to shoot herself

"The notice released yesterday quotes Bennett as telling the woman, “You need to lose weight. Let’s face it if your husband were to die tomorrow who would want you. Well, men might want you but not the types that you want to want you. Might even be a black guy.”

“The racial undertone gave rise to concern by the board the complaint might need further investigation,” Head said. “I want to make clear the board’s investigation is not about a doctor telling his patient she is obese.” (Editor's note: The word "not" was erroneously omitted from the previous sentence in earlier versions of this story on this site and in the New Hampshire Union Leader.) "

[applegrove]

22. Dems are in no way Utopian. They pic from a mix of policy depending

on its proven effectiveness.

The only Utopians are the neocons. Any tell you they have one rule that will make the world perfect - and that you will be coerced into following that one rule - they are no longer Utopians. They are totalitarians. Neocons are getting close. But for now - they remain the world's only practicing Utopians.

[applegrove]

24. I agree that if you look at it from the point of view of Dystopia Central

wanting to tend to the elderly (instead of making a case against lawyers by barring volunteer doctors)... well Dems must look pretty naive & hopeful indeed.

Those are not delusions we suffer from. Those are feelings. They may look like excessive baggage or 'cat toys' to you. But they are actually a normal part of being human in 99% of the cases.

[dR. O]

27. ....

'but you are obviously neither a linguist nor a philosopher. "Creator" implies intent. '

well I always found English class quite boring....So let me rephrase.....Something created everything and so whatever that something is it should be known as 'GOD'....now how coudl you have a problem with that concept? do you not exist?

'I'm speaking as an atheist. You have no idea how wearing it gets to always "conveniently" be in the restroom during the pledge of allegiance in order to avoid the nastiness that comes when people realize you didn't sieg heil with the rest of them.'

well I can pretty much relate to that as I grew up in the midst of the fundamentalist church where I always thought they were whack jobs and was beaten by my father for not 'believing'

'If you had any historical knowledge of Christianity, you would also know that the reason the early Christians came under scrutiny by
Roman authorities was a pledge. '

well I know plenty about Christianity and read the bible probably at least 5 times before I was 10 years old


now as far as the skinny person with diabetes that was almost certainly type 1 which is not caused by obesity...anyway the point is that when people strive so hard to go out of their way to be 'pc' to not offend any possible group you get ridiculous rulings like the one about the pledge being 'unconstitional' yesterday which IF the dems attempt to support that ruling will only guarantee continued losses on election day

[applegrove]

28. I'm agnostic. I see lots of PC as fine if it is good information. PC is

bad if it hides the truth.

As to god - I'd pledge - if it meant the person beside me was happy. Whatever religious headdress they wore. Even an atheist should not find it so hard - cause God is just a word to them. Bring back the pledge.

What your father was a victim of was assault. That wasn't god.

[renie408]

64. You are kidding me, right?

Hey, I am atheist...what about me? I don't think a sentient 'something' created us. I happen to believe that given a couple of billion years, just about anything could happen...and did. There is a clearly religious implication behind the reference to 'god' in the Pledge. Therefore, it is unconstitutional. It doesn't bother me, my kids say the Pledge or not as they will. I figure it is one of those things that is best left alone because I think it drags the freaks out of their dark corners and gives them reasons to vote AGAINST Dems. But that is because they lack the ability to reason and they have no reading comprehension.

And no matter how many times you have read the Bible, BTW, you may or may not be familiar with the history of the period in question. The Bible alone is not the best reference for an historically objective viewpoint.

[flaminbats]

69. if something created everything, what created something?

if what created something, what created what? :crazy:

Sorry, but perhaps a Godless universe is too politically incorrect for some people. Thankfully America is a refuge for all who can believe what they wish, not another dictatorship for one to be punished due to lack of conformity. I think all students should be allowed to gather together to say the pledge and prey. I believe forcing students to prey or say the pledge is no different than allowing a public school to teach Muslim or Jewish children that they will burn in hell. Discipline has an essential role in every public school, that is why it must never be abused for political reasons. Once punishment is used for not believing in God, why stop punishment on those refusing to make pledges to political leaders or for someone's warped idea of political correctness? Justice and liberty are not defined by one's obedience to a government.

Political correctness is a dangerous weapon when it becomes un-American for anyone to reject a government god.

[Adelante]

26. Skinny people die

I've known many.

[Douglas Carpenter]

29. Who of significance in the Democratic Party is preaching excessive PC

or utopianism?

I'm sorry, but I cannot at this moment think of a single significant Democratic Party figure who is doing either.

Could someone give even one single example of any major Democratic Party figure excessively preaching PC or utopianism?

[Guava Jelly]

30. diebold

eom

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. Yup. Dems are the Truth Party and Repubs are the Power At All Costs Party

[blondeatlast]

33. Well, I guess DU can close up shop now. Thanks, Skinner, EarlG,

and Elad, but the good doctor's arrived. :eyes:

[librechik]

35. Nobody here seems to realize--drO is

our beloved "Go fuck yourself, Cheney" ER doctor Ben Marble.

Interesting views he displays for such a liberal guy, huh?

[blondeatlast]

36. I knew that from the beginning. Interesting is one word for it. nt

[librechik]

39. I can only hope it's a random

troll manifestation. Dr Ben is still my hero!

[blondeatlast]

43. That was my thinking as well. Something isn't adding together here. nt

[Generator]

50. What's funny

Is that we worship someone because he said Fuckyou to Dick Cheney? Please. How hard is that? I bet any of us can do it in a heartbeat. It's kinda sad that we make a hero out of someone for this-which compared to what somebody like Cindy Sheehan has been doing is about a five second effort. Of course, whatever the Dr did to help the people of New Orleans is to be commended!

I'm a little shocked at this post-because I too hate PC stuff. I don't think that has a thing to do with why Dems lose. And it seems to me the FIRST thing any doctor does is weigh you. You break an arm-they will tie it to obesity if necessary. It's all they focus on in my opinion, and many overweight people don't even want to go to the doctor simply because that is all the doctor's focus on. Obviously if you are over the age of 12, you KNOW that it's better to be thin if poossible-better to eat well, better to excerise. IT's out there in the media every second of our lives. What the hell is Dr. O talking about? It's not PC to say lose weight? It seems to me maybe we don't need doctors at all-we all just need to lose weight-since EVERY problem is tied to being overweight.

[Eric J in MN]

58. I knew that. It doesn't mean I have to agree with him

that "Political Correctness" is a major problem.

[sendero]

34. I agree with you..

.... but don't expect a warm reception here with that observation. There are as many nutty people on the left as there are on the right, that much I will assure you. The difference is that people on the left mean well for "everyone" whereas those on the right often only care about themselves and those like them.

There are elements of life as we know it that are unpleasant and some people think "say no evil" is the best approach. I happen to disagree.

The right has successfully taken some of the more extreme memes of the more liberal among us and shoved them up our collective asses.

And an even more uncomfortable truth is that the right learned dirty politics from the left (the 70's), they just took it to a whole new level. They learned the importance of having the media on your side, and they made it happen. They learned how to take the most strident among us and paint it as the rank and file. I was there and I remember. And really, maybe we learned it from them in the 30s, who knows - I wasn't there.

[seabeyond]

37. you got it wrong dr 0. it is pc to insist an obese person correct

life style and become slim and svelte.......ergo it is our job to pass law making sure no one is fat. leave em alone, i say. they are aware of the health issues. when and if they are ready to do something about it they will. otherwise none of yours or anyone elses business. the pc may come in not your place to discriminate ridicule and be mean to that person. i am all for that. it is ugly. it is wrong. it says nothing about the fat person. it says a lot about the person that choses to be ugly for no other reason than feels it is ok to be mean to a fellow human being

[Toots]

38. The real problem is how shallow people are

To believe the Democratic agenda can be summed up in two words "Political correctness" is astoundingly shallow and IMO straight from the mouth of the right wing inciters.

[noiretextatique]

40. amen

shallow is a nice way of saying: dumb.

[meow2u3]

41. Dems need to suggest that repukes are a threat to our freedom

If we launch a campaign pointing out the threats repukes pose to the Constitution and the American way of life, we stand a good chance of winning.

In other words, Dems need to play the fear card and throw the repukes' fearmongering right back in their faces.

[Yupster]

47. Disagree Pendulum

I believe the majority of people are unhappy with Republican rule and are ready to turn to the Democratic Party.

However, what is missing in my opinion is the 2-3 clear points that we must make saying elect us and we will do the following three things.

I don't think more negatives are needed for the R's. They're already convinced of that. What is needed now is the clear alternative.

PS - kind of on the topic of PC, an issue that you never hear about, but one that I think was very important in the R's winning the congress was of all things the 55 mile speed limit. I think that was an example of the D's being PC or nannies or whatever, but it was an issue that the average person could understand and see, at least in the west and south.

[category5]

81. EXACTLY!!! Dems to spell out 3 or 4 POSITIVE things they will do

Bad mouthing does not win elections. Let the repugs do that.

But for our side it is critical to create our own contract with
America.

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. please allow me to repeat my question doc..

Who of significance in the Democratic Party is preaching excessive PC
or utopianism?

I'm sorry, but I cannot at this moment think of a single significant Democratic Party figure who is doing either.

Could someone give even one single example of any major Democratic Party figure excessively preaching PC or utopianism?

A few days ago someone on a different thread someone suggested that Dems loose because we have too many "hard leftist" leading the party. I asked that person to please name one single major Democratic Party figure who could by any wild stretch of the Imagination be described as "hard left". And to state what specific policies these "hard Left" politician were advocating that made them so far out of the mainstream that any reasonable person could describe them as "hard left". No one could give me even one single example.

Also, someone suggested that Mondale and Dukakis lost by such wide margins because of their ultra-liberal and far left views. I asked again if anyone could give me any examples of any positions held by Dukakis or Mondale that any reasonable person could describe as ultra-liberal or far left. Again no one could come up with even one single example.

The Republicans may have spread these terms around and some Democrats might have bought into their talking points.

[bluedawg12]

56. The noecons are preaching excessive PC and utopianism

Their view of the monopolar world.

Their PC attitude dripping with sarcasm when right wing hacks talk about the liberal elite media hollywood etc.

The right talks in jingoistic phrases.

[blondeatlast]

44. Can you link us up to the case you cite? It's a very serious issue

worthy of discussion if it is true.

Thanks.

[baldguy]

45. "PC" is a neocon code word

for treating people with the respect human beings deserve.

They can't stand that.

[ClassWarrior]

46. THE DEMS AREN'T LOSING - THE RADICAL RW IS CHEATING.

NGU.

[INdemo]

88. Voter fraud means Demos Lose

We should have been going to the polls last November to re-elect Gore.
My..just think how the course of History would have changed

[cally]

48. Why is this a Democratic and Republican issue?

It's not. Democrats are not responsible for these issues. Republicans have spun that they are the party of personal responsibility unless you are rich or own a company that donates to the GOP. Then the government and courts will be used to protect your assets and bail you out of your failed business ventures. Sure, Democrats receive funds from trial lawyers and believe in a court system but that does not make them responsible for any failure that you see in court rulings.

[nvliberal]

49. Paul Campos

would rip several corn chutes into the crap of "obesity," whatever that is, being a "major health problem."

Lesse, we are now using "health reasons" to justify prejudice towards those who don't meet some anorexic ideal of the media and fashion/diet/pharmaceutical/medical industries.

After all, there's big money to be made by making people ashamed of their appearance, including being "obese," even though the "cure" doesn't work for the vast majority of people.

Sorry, I ain't buying the "fat is evil" crap.

[sendero]

59. Hmmm...

.... being 30-40 pounds overweight might be an appearance issue but it is not a health issue. Being 100+ is, whether you agree or not.

[Eric J in MN]

51. One lawsuit which may or may not be justifited

(we don't know what the doctor specifically said yet) doesn't prove that Political Correctness is a big problem.

[bluedawg12]

54. Was NOT a lawsuit and here's what he said

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?artic...

Dr. Bennett accused of advising patient to shoot herself

"The notice released yesterday quotes Bennett as telling the woman, “You need to lose weight. Let’s face it if your husband were to die tomorrow who would want you. Well, men might want you but not the types that you want to want you. Might even be a black guy.”

“The racial undertone gave rise to concern by the board the complaint might need further investigation,” Head said. “I want to make clear the board’s investigation is not about a doctor telling his patient she is obese.” (Editor's note: The word "not" was erroneously omitted from the previous sentence in earlier versions of this story on this site and in the New Hampshire Union Leader.) "

[Eric J in MN]

57. Thanks. Here is a working link.

http://www.theunionleader.com/Articles_show.html?article=59788&archive=1

[pola]

52. the REAL reason is DIEBOLD

*#&#*#)%@#!*#$^%)_+!

[bearfan454]

67. Ding Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner folks. Welcome to DU pola. Now you can get the real news.

[pola]

75. thanks

nice to be here.

[RandomKoolzip]

53. Don't doctors have to take SOME English during undergrad studies?

[blondeatlast]

83. Hah! Best response yet. nt

[bluedawg12]

55. Look at what the Dr. said:it was insulting and racist

and he got two complaints sent to the state's attorney general not a MedMal lawsuit.

he also, allegedly, told another patient to go shoot herself according to the story link below.

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?artic...

Dr. Bennett accused of advising patient to shoot herself

"The notice released yesterday quotes Bennett as telling the woman, “You need to lose weight. Let’s face it if your husband were to die tomorrow who would want you. Well, men might want you but not the types that you want to want you. Might even be a black guy.”

“The racial undertone gave rise to concern by the board the complaint might need further investigation,” Head said. “I want to make clear the board’s investigation is not about a doctor telling his patient she is obese.” (Editor's note: The word "not" was erroneously omitted from the previous sentence in earlier versions of this story on this site and in the New Hampshire Union Leader.) "

[mtnsnake]

60. The real reason we lose is because we don't know how to frame things

properly and we're pathetic at explaining how things work. Our message is so muffled that it's about as handy as having no message at all. Our Democratic leaders have failed miserably at standing up and explaining things to Joe Sixpack in words that he can understand. They think that everyone's as cerebral as we are.

[bluedawg12]

62. I agree the message has to be short and sweet, face it

we live in a world of sound bites.

We remember the 30 second news spot-not the ruminations of think tank egg heads.

That's not to say that the under pinnings should not be deep and carefully constructed.

But come on: we remember "stay the course" and not some neoconnie's diatribe about a monopolar superpower, in the post cold war, post modern world. Yet, that is the basis of staying the course.

[Armstead]

61. I agree with that to a point -- It's a balancing act

I think liberals do get too hung up on purism sometimes in ways that are distracting from the core issues.

IMO the best approach is to deal with the issues of wealth and power on all levels, while leaving it up to individuals to have their own personal values and regulate the aspects of their lives that don;t affect others or the social good.


If we can more effectively bring power back to people, they will be happier and more likely to individually choose to do the right thing in otehr spheres.

[Ignacio Upton]

65. It's more of a perception than a real problem

One of the reasons why apolitical independents trust Republicans in some cases is because they fear the an "authoritarian-left" government which involves a overly PC nanny state where entertainment is regulated and we are told what is good for us. The backlash against this can be summarized by South Park. The creators of the show are Libertarians, but attack the "PC-left" more than the religious right, which is the GOP's authoritarian equivalent of a forceful block. The problem with the "PC wing" is that they might piss people off whenever they yell at someone for using the word "bitch" or "retarded" which many use in the vernacular but don't actually intend to be slurs against women or the mentally-disabled.

[bluedawg12]

66. Try this message on for size! :)

This comes from ideas generated in another thread in this forum.

I am excited, it feels pretty good. Thoughts on the prototype speech at the end?



Here it is:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2095597&mesg_id=2097006

Is there a Democratic Message cooking here?!!! Idea!!


Do we have the makings of a sound, appealing Democratic platform here?

I smell honesty and truth coming from real people.

.....
In summary of what we have been saying.

There may not be enough good jobs because of multinationals outsourcing jobs over seas.

Influx of unregulated cheap labor competing with American workers.

Decline in manufacturing jobs such as steel and textiles and even automotive.

Decline in industry sector, airlines come to mind. Two just went belly up.

Unskilled labor base not shrinking due to poor education system.

Unfair tax breaks on the backs of the middle class.
.......

I feel that these ideas would appeal to voters in blue and red states.

The middle class has been hit hard.

The middle class is the strength of any democracy.

In America the middle class, which used to include unionized labor with good pay and benefits has declined.

.......

How about something like this as a vision or democratic style speech?

Democrats offer a new vision for America.

An America that strengthens the middle class and gives hope that everyone can rise to the American dream!

The Democratic vision of a new and brighter future... rising above the tide of corporate cynicism and permissive attitudes towards corporate greed.

Stopping the out flow of good jobs to cheap foreign labor markets, while our American middle class struggles, often two bread winners are not enough and families have to chose between paying the bills or spending time together.

Stopping the wasteful tax breaks for world wide corporate empires that off shore their earnings and hide them with clever accounting practices while hard working Americans shoulder the tax burden.


Democrats want to stop the corrupt scandals of a few that have washed away the retirement benefits of hard working Americans and CEO's who have blown money on lavish parties as heartlessly as hurricanes have blown away lives and homes.

The middle class is the heart and soul of America, those at the very top, those few, live off the hard work of the middle class. Those at the very bottom, far too many, can only be lifted up and when the middle class rises and they will only prosper in a new tomorrow so long as we keep the middle class strong.

[renie408]

68. You have my attention...

I keep thinking that we have to find a way to EDUCATE people about how all this stuff that they THINK is GOOD (tax cuts, etc) is really killing them. I am just baffled by the way the middle class has just gone belly up and apparently didn't mind enough to not vote for Bush again.

[tabasco]

71. Utopia is charging trillions of dollars and not paying the bills.

Republicans borrow and spend like there's no tomorrow.

Democrats live in reality and believe in paying the bills. That's why republicans use the war cry "tax and spend." It's called paying the bills. That's something you have to do in the real world.

The cream of the "haves and have-mores" that Bush represents are the only ones living in Utopia. The rest of us are left in the shit pool they leave behind after looting our resources.

Democrats restore austerity to bring government back to reality. They pay the price politically for doing the right things. Republicans spend massive $$$$ on propaganda and stupid people believe it. The cycle repeats itself.

[bluedawg12]

72. War and spend Repugs. I figured they deserve they got

what they deserved. Then I realized I got what they voted for.

Lousy mess.

[dR. O]

73. geez people

I merely used the obesity issue as one example. When I say PC UTOPIAN I guess I mean that idea that all humans have a 'right' to not be 'offended'. Sure everyone has a 'right' to not be physically harmed or discriminated against for employment, education,etc. but no one has a 'right' to not be 'offended' bc anyone can claim that anything offends them at any given moment in time. Also the fact is roughly 90% of humans believe in some form of 'God' so if the dems want to pander to the left extremists who want to claim the pledge is unconstituaional then they are no better than the right wing neocons and can expect to keep losing when they pick PC UTOPIAN agendas like that one.

'Hey, I am atheist...what about me? I don't think a sentient 'something' created us'

i never claimed that 'something' was/is sentient nevertheless the fact remains everything was created and so whatever did it should be called 'God'....that is the only 'god' i believe in bc whether that somethign was evoluation or some big blue fairy in the sky can never be PROVED so what is the point in arguing about something that can never be proven?

[flaminbats]

74. liberals don't believe the pledge is unconstitutional..

liberals believe that a government-mandated pledge to God is unconstitutional. Children should have every right to prey and to recite the pledge, they should never be forced by our government to prey or recite a pledge to any colorful piece of cloth.

I think we agree..the pledge and prayer should be allowed in public school, and never required. :thumbsup:

[bluedawg12]

79. Utopian is ridding society of gays, cloning, stem cell res. etc. n/t

[gulliver]

76. Need a link on the obese patient suing the doctor. Otherwise,

I have to assume it is false and merely slimy propaganda. Republicans have lots of these circulating in e-mail. I've never found a Dem equivalent. That sort of thing is beneath us.

[bluedawg12]

78. Check reply #54. there's a link there. not a law suit. n/t

[shance]

80. Good point D.O. I would add that on a larger level

the intolerance to reality as you wisely asserted, could include an intolerance to sacrifice or self-restraint in most Americans, because, unlike other countries we havent had to exercise much of either, especially like you mentioned on a consumption level.

Food, or moreover sugar is a great example of an addictive substance which is in almost everything these days, and promoted for us to buy almost everywhere, but little is ever said of truly how much it can inhibit our immune system.

I think we are in for a rude awakening. We've become too soft in many areas of our lives and in our ways of approaching things. In many aspects we don't use and excercise our brains enough. And by that I mean all of us.

As far as Congress goes, they obviously have become too soft and certainly too lenient on ignoring the realities like you mentioned that face our country. Im sure in your world it is difficult at times to deal with patients that cannot tolerate the truth or reality of what your saying, even if it may in fact save their life. That is sad to see and it is not a good sign for this nation.

I think a lack of discipline, addiction to illusions, and an inability to tolerate realities probably all tie into what you are saying.

[Douglas Carpenter]

82. sorry doc, but please...I repeat my question

Who of significance in the Democratic Party is preaching excessive PC
or utopianism?

I'm sorry, but I cannot at this moment think of a single significant Democratic Party figure who is doing either.

Could someone give even one single example of any major Democratic Party figure excessively preaching PC or utopianism?

A few days ago someone on a different thread someone suggested that Dems loose because we have too many "hard leftist" leading the party. I asked that person to please name one single major Democratic Party figure who could by any wild stretch of the Imagination be described as "hard left". And to state what specific policies these "hard Left" politician were advocating that made them so far out of the mainstream that any reasonable person could describe them as "hard left". No one could give me even one single example.

Also, someone suggested that Mondale and Dukakis lost by such wide margins because of their ultra-liberal and far left views. I asked again if anyone could give me any examples of any positions held by Dukakis or Mondale that any reasonable person could describe as ultra-liberal or far left. Again no one could come up with even one single example.

The Republicans may have spread these terms around and some Democrats might have bought into their talking points.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

84. Close.

It actually has to do with getting off their fat asses.

[Telly Savalas]

85. Daschle was pushing "PC Utopianism"?

That's why he lost to Thune?

What was Kerry's brand of "PC Utopianism"?

[Davis_X_Machina]

86. If Eugene V. Debs...

....came back from the dead, and saw Daschle, or Kerry, called "utopian", he'd die all over again.

[Douglas Carpenter]

87. well yes

I would like to know the name of even one single major Democrat politician who can be reasonably called a PC Utopian. And what specific polices they are promoting that a reasonable person would call PC Utopian.

There was a time from 1932 to 1972 in which the Democratic Party had a visionary message moving our country forward and seeking a better world. Since then, the policies seemed to at best be about minimizing the damage. It is now the GOP who are the visionary utopians. I just think there vision is more like a nightmare.

[bluedawg12]

89. Neoconnie's= social engineering, not even Utopian

just power mad.

[dR. O]

90. well

to those who would claim the dems don't push a 'pc' agenda i would say you are in obvious denial