Some Liberals just WANT to COMPLAIN !

[ladylibertee]

CASE and POINT

Within-in the last five to ten minuets, I watched as about four or five issues sprang up on this website that specifically bring awareness to the positive things our democratic Leaders are doing and how they are making progress.Right here on the DU website,concerns about the ineffectiveness of our leaders have been confronted with FACTs that have been posted on what exactly our Leaders are doing.I find it odd and highly suspicious,that there are hardly any hits on these threads.Yet,when there is some rude, negative,divisive thread,BOOM! Kicked and Nominated.What's really going on here?:shrug:

[ladylibertee]

1. I do not expect anyone to comment.Just read the other threads!

[texpatriot2004]

2. I'll read them. I am really tired right now but I'll check them out.

[ladylibertee]

3. Thank you. Appreciate it.There is some good stuff there.

[JI7]

4. i agree

[ladylibertee]

5. Thank you

[Q]

6. I think free speech is great...

...and so is the fact that people care enough about their own party to speak out when they see things going wrong.

If you don't like the threads you're complaining about...don't participate in them. But please don't suggest that others don't have the right to question their leadership.

[ladylibertee]

8. "I think free speech is great..." You just contradicted yourself dear.

[renie408]

22. She's right, it would have been more accurate to say...

"If you are not interested in threads which take a tone for which you do not care, do not engage in them. While it is your right to force your concept of constructive discussion on others, it is obnoxious."

[ladylibertee]

24. Yeah,Okay

[Laelth]

32. Hehe

Nicely done, renie. I plan to copy and keep that one for use on disruptors, with your permission, of course.

:toast:

-Laelth

[Savannah Progressive]

7. I will be happy to reply

So I should be overjoyed that our elected leaders, who passed the Energy Bill, are mouthing words known as "energy Independence" and taking no action?

I should be happy that our elected leaders have spent the last 15 years becoming Repugnik Lite instead of Democracy Prime?

I should understand that Rupert Murdoch and the Rev. Moon really can bring lot's of pressure to the Democratic Party's elected officials, and support anyone who has a "D" after their name in all things, even when they destroy the American Family by revamping Bankruptcy in favor of Bank One?

I write our elected leaders, and I write my congressmen, and agree with them on many issues. I then look to see who voted for what, and am aghast when I see many Democrats vote with the Repugniks on horrible legislation. Sure, confirm a nominee who will destroy civil liberties, no problem, let me send another check in right now. If you toss is abolishing abortions for Military Members, I would appreciate it. By the way, that isn't what our party stands for, nor is it what we espouse as our beliefs. It is what the enemy, the repugniks espouse, and they are winning, and we are all losing.

Our elected leaders are mouthing one set of words to us, and then voting with the Repugniks every chance they get. We should have fought Roberts with every fiber of our being, instead of going "well, it was a Conservative he was replacing, so this keeps balance on the court". That argument makes as much sense as saying that there were once segregationists on the court, so we need one KKK member to make sure the court is balanced. Pfui, and I don't agree.

The elected Democrats need to realize why they are losing the battles, and the wars. Sure, vote fraud by the Repugniks are a big part of it, but there is another part. Many of us are turning away, because they are not fighting for us. We give of our money, time, and energy fighting to get them to Washington. We know what they campaign for, and on. We know what they say they believe before they go to Washington. We sit back and watch and what do we see? We see our Senators, our Representatives mouthing words in favor of our ideals, and we check the votes. We see them not voting as they say they believe. A "bigger" issue came up and they had to support the Repugniks.

Americans know the truth, and that is killing us all. Americans knew it was the Repugniks and Newt that shut down the Government, and all the work by Limbaugh (fat bastard) and the Rev. Moon couldn't convince a vast Majority that it was President Clinton's fault. A vast Majority of Americans saw the witch hunt that was the Starr Investigation. We had the numbers supporting us, we had both houses of Congress, and we squandered the advantage, and lost our way.

We squandered that advantage by abandoning our principals, our ideals, in favor of the Rev. Moon and the Freepers. Now, our Candidates are not chosen by us, but by the Editors of the Washington Post under the guise of "Electable".

We have the audacity to wonder why we lose by a few hundred votes in so many states. We have betrayed the American People too many times, and need to re-commit to our principals, and demonstrate that we actually mean what we say, and what we campaign upon. You can't keep saying that Republican Lite is better than Republican, we have to be Democrats, faithful to the party, faithful to the people, and faithful to the principals.

Otherwise, we remain a minority, and like good slaves to the Repugniks, we will be allowed to exist only as they see fit. At the same time, the poor die from want of health care, another 20,000 people will die from gun violence in America, more restrictions to Roe will be found Constitutional, and no notice, secret administrative warrants will continue to round up political dissidents. Yes, the go along and get along method is working so well isn't it?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xipe Totec]

10. Kudos n/t

[mitchtv]

11. thanks , and welcome

I tend to lean towards your opinion. Win or lose, go down fighting. Dr. Dean speaks for me, not Joe Biden , charlie Schumer, lieberman, and the rest of the warrior dems who are afraid to say "Enough"

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. welcome to DU

andf GOOD job

[depakid]

13. I couldn't have said it better.

Thank you.

I think some people are living in a dream world, where the last 6 elections (and the so called "strategy" that lost them) never happened.

The bottom line is, so long as the Dems continue to legitimize and vote for Republican policies, the party will remain irrelevant.

When the ostensible "leader" of the Senate mouths words of support for yet another lackluster crony- on the Supreme Court, no less- even after all that's happened in the aftemath of Katrina-

Well, all I have to say is it's time to face the facts. There's something SERIOUSLY wrong in the party- and if it doesn't right itself soon, you can kiss our chances in 2006 goodbye, because people aren't going to vote for Republican lite.

How much more proof does anyone need?

[Mizmoon]

15. Remember when the Democrats stood for something?

Civil Rights was not popular, but it was the right thing to do.

The Party would never touch "such a devisive issue" today.

[Savannah Progressive]

51. Civil Rights

I have been thinking about that, and realize that is part of the big problem facing our party.

In the 60's those that came before us stood up and demanded equal rights and equal protection under law. We said no more, we traveled to Segregation states, and marched together demanding the rights of the individual be equal.

We marched and demanded accountability about Viet-Nam, and ended that war, saving how many thousands of lives? We were tireless and determined. We knew the truth, and spread that truth at every opportunity. We didn't worry about getting along, we worried about ending an unjust war and spreading social justice.

Today, Social Justice again needs to be expanded, today it is the Gay community in addition to the continued fight for Minority rights.

Now, look at our leaders. How many have come out in favor of Gay Marriage? They parse the words, trying to sell us on a separate but equal approach to the issue. "How about we give the Homosexual community 'Civil Unions' instead?" Separate but equal was one of the dark chapters of our Nations History, but now we look to it and say it works just fine. I say no. I say our party should not embrace the principals of Segregation just to get along.

We have another unjust war, started for Corporate gain, and our leaders, well they are following the unjust corporate dollars, and promising to find out if the war is unjust, and hold some staffer at the White House accountable. So some intern set up the Iraq war? That is what we are supposed to believe? Well our leaders will apparently believe it, so long as they get a check from Halliburton, who cares right?

Now, we are the problem, we that think the Party is ignoring the people. We are being "disloyal" by saying our leaders are wrong. We need to blindly support the party and dream of a better day. Perhaps Homosexuals will have rights in twenty years, or fifty. We just can't risk too much to get those rights, our party's power is more important isn't it?

Isn't our history and principals more important to the future than the risk we face? In 100 years, our future generations will be reading about this time. Do they read that we ended injustice, and pushed for Social equality? I doubt they will, it's more likely that they read about how the world was saved by the dictatorship created by the court.

[cornermouse]

14. Yep.

[ladylibertee]

17. I am so sorry, Let me put it this way

Some Liberals,and FREEPERS just WANT to COMPLAIN.It is obvious.I made my point.

[ClintonTyree]

18. So we should all just shut up and accept out fate?

I really don't see what you're getting at here. Don't complain, our Democratic leaders are doing their very best so just remain quiet and let them work their magic? :rofl: Please!

[ladylibertee]

20. I think I am being fair.There is far more negative post here than positive

I mean,hell,it was bound to happen.I keep seeing shit all the time.I had to know why.People are more attracted to shit I guess.

[renie408]

27. Huh? You do know what the definition of 'irony' is, right?

The thing I find really funny is that this is the most freeperish thread I have read in a long time.

[renie408]

25. Mom? Is that you??

Mom, I know you have always told me that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all...But I keep trying to explain to you that it doesn't seem to be getting the Democratic Party anywhere.

[McKenzie]

28. that was a very good post Savannah Progressive

Dissent is the basis of democracy. I'm aware that some posts are just flame bait designed to waste everyone's time; your post reads rather differently...there was much therein worth thinking about even though I'll never be allowed to vote given that I'm a Brit.

We have a saying over here..."Only dead fish go with the flow".

Welcome from me too.

[mrcheerful]

29. Blind faith will................

get you killed. What you expect us liberals to do just stand by and let our party speak for us? Isn't that what the sheepicans do? Say nothing against the party and back everything they say or do? Thats what makes us different then the rw, we question and want answers instead of trusting our party blindly.Just because Dean, Clinton, Gore or any other said so, we don't take it as truth.

We don't believe that government has our best interests at heart, we know that our party is just as greedy as the Repukes and we know money talks bull shit walks. Its up to ''we the people'' to question and demand answers from our elected officials. Thats what I hate about the repukes the most, they want us to shut up and let them handle our government business and stay out of their way.

[MaineDem]

31. Welcome to DU, savannah

Thanks for joining us.

:hi:

[mrcheerful]

50. Re: thanks for joining us

[OzarkDem]

16. Think of it this way

We're providing our party with some leadership of our own that's badly needed at this point.

I've yet to see any fact that shows Dem leaders in Congress are in any way taking the initiative, outlining bold plans and visions and recapturing the support of voters.

There have only been attempts to blame voters. Is that the best they can come up with?

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Posting the morning flamebait I see.

:hi:

[ladylibertee]

21. Hey Crunch LOL.What's flamebait ?

[renie408]

23. HAHAHAHAHA.....Good one!! n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

34. Oh, ladylibertee.

I think you could probably write a book on that one.:D

[MrBenchley]

36. Flamebait?

That IS rich.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. Actually, it looks like the mods agree with me,

if you want to take a look at her profile.:)

[MrBenchley]

40. Wow...

We've reached a sad point when appeals for party loyalty are flame bait.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

46. Tee hee hee....

You get funnier and funnier.

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Actually, she's been running around from thread to thread

insulting everybody, and has been posting blatant flamebait. She also viciously attacked Senator Feingold and insinuated that another poster was a freeper for being a Feingold supporter.

Maybe that's what you consider to be appeals for party loyalty. I respectfully disagree with you on that.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

58. I was the poster she insulted.

I get along with everyone here, even the people I strongly disagree with on some issues, but she took the cake by far.

She accused me of all sorts of things for no reason, then totally reversed course in her "reasoning."

All I can say is good riddance.

[Crunchy Frog]

82. She insulted and attacked a whole bunch of people including me.

The one I'm thinking of was a newbie with under 100 posts who had the gall to post stuff supporting Feingold. It sucks when anyone gets treated that way here, but it really pisses me off when it's a new poster.

It can be really intimidating when you first start posting, and having someone insinuate that you're a freeper like that just makes the whole place look terrible and probably makes some people question whether they belong here.

She was very clearly here to cause trouble and to make other posters feel like shit.

[jonnyblitz]

26. aah...the DU thought police are out in full force again today, too.

just shut up and agree, right?!?! Perhaps discussion boards aren't for you.. :eyes:

[RogueTrooper]

30. I have allways been under the impression

that society progresses because of complaining liberals.

[mmonk]

33. Silly us

Must comply.

[MrBenchley]

35. I'm not so sure they're liberals...

I wonder how many are either green party loonies, or libertarians.

[mitchtv]

39. I don't know about "them"

But I am a liberal Democrat old line Union man. I am disgusted with the accomodationists running, or is it ruining my party, and claiming to represent me.

[MrBenchley]

44. Also an old line liberal Democrat

But I am astonished at the number of people who crawled out of the woodwork to bash Democrats over the Miers nomination (remember, Senate hearings haven't even been scheduled)...

[AntiCoup2K4]

37. Here we go again....

Frequently it seems that we get some
Really, really determined individuals wishing to
Evoke some very strong feelings and
Emotions among DU'ers by running their own little
Psyops on this board, often by
Embellishing themselves as supporters of a given candidate, while the
Reality is that they truly support another agenda entirely.

Truly the whole thing is
Really much sadder than watching the
Odd groups of 4 or 5 misguided people standing around
Lines of rented porta-potties at their so called "pro-America" rallies.
Lincoln is doing cartwheels in his grave at the sight of the modern GOP.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. Well, it looks like this one has just psyopped her last psyop here.

[AntiCoup2K4]

42. Thank God (or Skinner) for that. Now let's hope they take her sidekick too

:)

[Behind the Aegis]

43. Very good point.

It is almost as if one finds something positive about a Democratic person or organization, then the observer must be a "sell out" or "acting like a lemming." The same is true in reverse, if one does not engage in "hero worship" of certain people then the non-worshiper must be a 'freeper' or 'traitor.' Sometimes, it is very discouraging.

[Mass]

48. Why was the OP tumbstoned?

[Ignis]

49. Take your pick:

1) Because s/he was a freeper troll.

2) Because s/he flounced about from thread to thread, complaining all the while about 'you liberals', 'you lefties', etc.

3) Because s/he didn't know the difference between 'case in point' and 'case and point'--whatever the latter might be.

4) Halitosis.

[renie408]

52. Thanks about the 'case and point' thing.n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

53. Also, for not knowing that a period is followed by a space.LOL.

:D

[Ignis]

55. Well...

One doesn't like to pick nits. :)

[LoZoccolo]

70. Well, that's an unwise course, then.

1. FReepers don't encourage people to be loyal to the party, and even if they do, I don't care.
2. So what? We're not allowed to be self-conscious now? That's a sure recipe for disaster in my opinion.
3. Who cares.
4. Who cares.

[Ignis]

81. Alright, we'll try this at 33 instead of 45...

1. Trolling is trolling, regardless of its flavour. Thus sayeth the DU admins. Take it up with them if you don't like the policy. It's been serving us well here at DU for the past 6 years.

2. There's a significant difference between (a) offering constructive criticism from a personal perspective and (b) constantly painting anyone to the left of Atilla the hun with the broad brush of 'extremism', 'leftyism', or 'moonbatism'. The latter does not promote discourse, loyalty, progress, or an expansion of consciousness.

3. Not you, apparently. Also, that's what we call a 'joke'.

4. Ibid.

Best of luck.

[sadiesworld]

75. A certain lack of subtlety perhaps?

[AtomicKitten]

54. You got that right, lady L

But I don't think those who glom onto negativism are really Dems to begin with but rather disgruntled, dysfunctional, third party types (not that there's anything wrong with the latter) that really hate the Democratic Party more than Republicans. In my mind that's hard to fathom, and clearly why they piss me off so much.

As we are watching the Republican Party implode, now is the time to walk lockstep FOR ONCE crushing the opposition, which they so richly deserve. But if that's not possible, fine with me. It doesn't take the edge off the giddy anticipation I feel about the imminent indictment festival.

Just saw Barack Obama on cutie-pie Anderson Cooper's show. I STILL think Obama will be president some day IN SPITE OF the fact that some folks expected him to use hand grenades in Congress.

And I STILL think Al Gore is the perfect choice for 2008 because he doesn't have the Iraq Resolution stink on him.

But, bottom line is that I will support the Democrats in the hopes of a better tomorrow.

Who's with me?

[Dr Fate]

56. But who do we march in "lock step" with? The base or conservative DEMS?

For example-Shall we be in lockstep with the tactic displayed by the 22 Senators who voted against Roberts, or the 23 DEMS who gave Bush what he wanted?

Shall we be in lockstep with the Black Caucus, or the DLC? etc, etc.

I'm with you on ultimately voting straight DEM- not with you on being silent when I see mistakes being made.

[AtomicKitten]

59. Lockstep right over the opposition.

Don't use my rant as a springboard for your own and try to connect the two. We clearly aren't on the same wave-length.

In the bigger scheme of things, all else is minutia compared to extricating America from the grips of these bastards. I am aware of the status quo and will not be detoured from keeping my eye on the prize by arguing with someone left-of-center.

[Dr Fate]

61. Not that it's bad-but I'm not left of center. Where did you get that idea?

On which issues have I presented a left of center view point?

I'm not a pacifist- but I DO oppose wars based on fraud & lies- is that "left of center", or just normal, logical, even strategical thinking?

You said we need to be in "lock-step" - there are different strategic viewpoints in our coalition party- which ones would you hand down to us to be in lock step with?

[AtomicKitten]

66. wow - I feel like I'm translating

Let's see, where did I get the idea you are left-of-center?
1. You said you would vote a straight dem ticket.
2. You are here at DU.

Opposing the Iraq war is not the definition of pacifism. Many Dems supported the invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 but not Iraq. Pacifism is not supporting ANY war. This is a big tent that houses many opinions.

I'm sorry you think "left-of-center" and "normal, logical, even strategery-thinking" are mutually exclusive.

And, finally, for crissakes, I explained my use of the term "lock-step" was used in specific reference to uniting to demolish the cheese in office. I made no reference to any ideology yet you continue to want to argue that.

You're trying to provoke an argument when there is none to be had from me; as I said, I've retired that banging my head up against a wall. But I'm sure others here would be happy to argue with you.

[Dr Fate]

68. I see- so you were just making it up then.

YOU SAID:

"I am aware of the status quo and will not be detoured from keeping my eye on the prize by arguing with someone left-of-center." I assumed you said this to position yourself as the "clear eyed moderate" schooling the "red faced Micheal Moore radical" on how to be moderate. I apologize if my perception was incorrect.

Incidently, the OP you agreed with was banned a "disruptor."

Then I asked where you got the idea that I'm left of center- on what issues am I left of center?

You claimed that I think "left-of-center" and "normal, logical, even strategery-thinking" are mutually exclusive. But I never said that, I said that opposing wars based on lies is common sense- that should be somthing everyone of any political leaning opposes.

What I'm asking is- Would all this "lock step" stuff be here if today, Conyers were to hold his DSM hearings and John Kerry were to try to to get the Senate Dems to push for an investigation of it? They were moslty ignored when they did do those things to fight Bush.

Or is Kerry now too "far left?" That is my point- I'd like some "lock step" action myself- but I want to know who we are going to be in lock step with.

Doc

[Dr Fate]

64. Lady L has been banned as a disruptor. n/t

n/t

[AJH032]

57. ladylibertee, excellent point!

my dream is that one day the left will unite and realize that the real enemies are the Republicans on the right, and not the Democrats.

[AtomicKitten]

60. I share your vision.

[loudsue]

62. Whew!! Good riddance!! One down....several more trolls hanging around

yet to go!

:hi: Thanks Mods!! :yourock:

[Dr Fate]

63. I know- and look how many Joe Libermans were agreeing with that troll.

n/t

[loudsue]

65. Yep...they hang around here ...

kinda like they hang out around the porta potties.... in groups! :rofl:

I believe, good Doctor, that we've been around here long enough to see all kinds of 'em, haven't we? This OP was relatively new to the game, I suspect. She hadn't yet learned to fly under the radar like the more experienced ones do.

But like the others...she'll be back with a new name, before long. :silly: I wish they'd all go away, and stay away.

[AtomicKitten]

67. silly, silly people

You clearly haven't read the thread through. It's the age-old argument between Democrats and those who hate the Democratic Party more than Republicans.

It appears you have settled on the side of the latter.

It appears Ms. Libertee was banned for impolite behavior, not for being a troll. You throw that term around as capriciously as the Republicans do the word "traitor."

Just know some will applaud your excommunication when that time comes too.

[renie408]

71. Ok, let me get this straight...

Ms. Libertee, a TRUE Democrat, posts a thread with an inflammatory title calling out other members for responding more to posts SHE considers negative than to posts SHE considers positive...and the rest of us hate the DEMOCRATic Party more than Republicans??

I am not thinking that makes a whole lot of sense.

[Dr Fate]

76. Per DU ADMIN- the OP is a "disruptor."

n/t

[LoZoccolo]

69. I think it's related to an Internet grazing habit.

People who sit around on the computer don't do much, therefore they feel powerless, therefore they complain about what other people do or do not do. So I think that you'll find a higher proportion of whiny liberals here just due to the nature of the Internet medium.

Plus in a normal social setting (like our Illinois Dem Net progressives social which you may be interested in if you are in the Chicago area - click on the link in my signature when it returns for more info!), a person wouldn't be allowed to sit around whining about things for very long before people would see them as a parasite of peoples' attention and start avoiding them...on the Internet they can whine all they want whether or not people want to listen to them.

[renie408]

72. Oh dear

Do you think that ALL complaints are whining? Are you saying that if you are not completely in lockstep with the Democratic Leadership, you are a whiny do nothing who is a parasite? Cause that is kind of what it sounds like you are saying.

[LoZoccolo]

73. No, but unconstructive ones are.

I rarely see any advocacy of how to get _____ issue done other than threatening to vote third-party, or falling back on third-party propaganda such as the lie that there is no difference between parties. I almost never see anything practical being advocated to get us closer to fixing whatever it is they're complaining about, such as nominating a candidate who represents their views and getting enough people to vote for them in order for them to win. And I almost never see issue advocacy, working on the electorate to get them to support this or that so that the kind of candidate they want will get elected.

Plus I do see blatant butt-ass ridiculous charges brought up against our officials. Some people just look for anything to bash because they like the attention and like to look like they are better than any other Democrat or something.

[AtomicKitten]

74. well said.

Howard Dean gave the most constructive remarks regarding EVM fraud on Randi Rhodes' show that were construed by some as "wimpy." He suggested gathering signatures to get a bill on the ballot in states that would mandate that all voting equipment must have a recountable back-up, i.e., a paper trail.

That's progressive, not wimpy. He's not "selling out to the establishment" as some have accused him, he's thinking outside the box.

[Dr Fate]

78. I agree- no 3rd parties & no "Gore is the same as Bush" type BS.

I actually see a lot of DUers advocating getting more active in the nomination process and advocating their issues- but I guess we can agree that there needs to be more of that.

[Dr Fate]

77. And I suppose you are posting this from a nature trail or somthing?

;)

Perhaps you have a point that we all could hit the pavement a little more- and you would be right.

[LoZoccolo]

79. For people in Illinois, check out Illinois Dem Net.

http://www.illinoisdemnet.com

My friend Leo maintains the site. It's basically a one-stop place to look for things in which to get involved for Democrats, and it'd be cool if I could export the concept into a few other states through DU or otherwise. There is a Democratic Party meetup every month where business is discussed and sometimes there are speakers (we've had people from Billionaires for Bush as well as People for the American Way, for instance), and also a progressives social every month where we hang out and drink. Also, this year during the Illinois State Fair there was a trip organized to the capitol for Democrats' Day.

[Dr Fate]

80. Good luck with that- Illinois needs it....

Now that I'm in San Fran and not GA, I actually find it harder to focus my activism- since there is already such a strong DEM base out here... I'd like to be able to do somthing for Red States from here.