Texas Pastor Electrocuted During Baptism

[JJackFlash]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051031/ap_on_re_us/pastor_electrocuted;_ylt=Ah2WLuy.xDy_I02deyWOiHhH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-
Unfortunately, I can't really comment on this since DU Forum's rules on religion postings are too strict.

[Xipe Totec]

1. Mysterious ways indeed. n/t

[Ilsa]

2. I guess he missed that day in physical science class.

You know, the one where the teacher talks about water and electricity not being a good mix.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

6. SCIENCE! What blasphemy!

[FreedomAngel82]

58. Yep

I couldn't believe that. I would never risk it. Sad thing though. Carelessness. :(

[don954]

3. shocking, just shocking...

[wrathofkahn]

89. BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

....


....



OK...LOL!!!!

[don954]

92. i know, i couldn't resist!

[BeTheChange]

4. Wow the death of a Christian is enough to spawn two front page threads..

That is so progressive.

[JJackFlash]

5. wasn't aware of the other thread

but come on, don't you see just a little humor in this?
The Darwin Awards ... Team Jesus ... hmmm ... help me out here.

[BeTheChange]

8. I dont see alot of humor in a man dying in front of his friends and family

Im just quirkly that way. I dont have that whole Lynndie England sense of humor going on.

[mitchtv]

9. just perfect JJ

gonna miss out on the rapture, though.

[tx_dem41]

54. What humor are you talking about??

The Darwin Awards are fake so I guess you can laugh at stories...but its inhuman to laugh at this REAL-LIFE tragedy. Only someone lacking completely in compassion would find an ounce of humor in a man dying violently in front of 800 people, including his wife and children.

[kestrel91316]

7. I guess he has achieved every good fundie's goal of

going home to Jesus.

[Up2Late]

10. Texas preacher killed by (during) baptism (BBC News)

(Sign from God, or just another reason to upgrade to Wireless Microphones?)

Monday, 31 October 2005, 22:20 GMT

Texas preacher killed by baptism

A pastor was electrocuted during a baptism in Waco, Texas, after grabbing a microphone while partially submerged.

Rev Kyle Lake, 33, was standing in a small pool used for baptisms at the University Baptist Church when he was electrocuted on Sunday morning.

Rev Lake reached out to adjust a nearby microphone, which produced an electric shock, said church pastor Ben Dudley. Rev Lake, who had a wife and three children, had been at the church for nine years.

Confusion

He was taken by ambulance to a local medical centre where he was pronounced dead. The woman being baptised apparently had not stepped into the water, Mr Dudley told the Waco Tribune-Herald. She was taken to the hospital as a precaution, but was not seriously injured, he said.

"At first, there was definitely confusion just because everyone was trying to figure out what was going on," Mr Dudley said. "Everyone just immediately started praying."

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4394722.stm>
(more at link above)

[Montauk6]

11. Think we should start regulating these baptisms?

And have the police called God in for questioning?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

12. I hope

his wife and kids weren't in the congregation yesterday. It had to have been awful.

[afdip]

13. he's been called home . . . another wacko from waco

[Ezlivin]

14. It was God's Will

Unfortunately, that is the only possible position that these Baptists can take. The way they view their faith makes it impossible for them to ever say that it was a mere accident.

Accidents don't happen under fundamentalist theology.

[ArkDem]

17. FYI......

http://www.ubcwaco.org/2004/ubc_holder.html

[Ezlivin]

28. I'll be damned

They said "accident". Said it more than once.

I take it back. My thoughts were poorly expressed.

"On the morning of Sunday October 30th, our pastor Kyle Lake was involved in an accident during a baptism and was transported by EMS to a nearby hospital. Kyle passed away around 11:30am . Not only did we lose a pastor but we've lost our friend."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

15. darwinism at work

If anyone had the slightest sense of a rea education, they would have known that CPR would probably have saved him, not prayer. But, as they continue to rely on getting on their knees instead of exercising their brains, accidents will continuee to happen.

One of my local papers suggested that he was standing in a pool of water when he grabbed a mike.

[depakid]

25. Nominated for a Darwin award

Even a fundy should know better than that.

[BeTheChange]

31. Great conclusion you jumped to there..

you are right, us Christians just kneel and pray about everything. That's how I get fed, manna from heaven just drops in my mouth when I drop to my knees.


"Doctors in the congregation rushed to help Mr Lake. "

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2176422005

[ChairmanAgnostic]

32. by falling to their knees and singing praises to their lord and asking for

his salvation.

Remember, these guys have TONS of writings. Check him out. READ his stuff. They are cutting edge of fundie freakishness.

I have no use for them, nor the way they brainwash our young and susceptible.

[BeTheChange]

34. Cause you have read him, right?

If you think these people are on the "cutting edge of fundie freakishness" you sure dont have alot of grasp of just what that is. Maybe you need to check out some Tony Alamo..

Or maybe you should actually take a minute and listen to a sermon he made before you file him away in some box you have created where you put anyone labeled Christian.

http://www.ubcwaco.org/2004/sermons.html

[ChairmanAgnostic]

68. that box labeled christian ran out of room. It's a moving crate now.

And, yes, I have listened to and read Lake's stuff BEFORE the accident. Remember, Waco is a lot like parts of Florida, with competing sects doing adult dunkings, faith healings, and installing the worst kind of home schooling.

I agree that there are some flat-earthers out there even more extreme, but when a guy leaves a trail, and I am researching fundies and their crazy ideas, and his paw prints are all over the place, well, then, yes, I put him in the same crate.

Imagine my surprise that basic safety rules like getting out of a pool of water before grabbing an ungrounded mike never occured to him.

[unrepuke]

46. Lake was in water -- hahahaha

[Richard Steele]

16. Thus PROVING my "Theory of Intelligent Electricity"....

Or maybe the theory of "unintelligent electricity USERS...."

Either way, it's a silly way to die.

[mitchum]

18. LMAO!!!

:) well done (both your comment and that idiot)

[malaise]

23. I can't help but wonder if his last word

was Rapture. Intelligent design and science cannot mix kinda like water and electricity.

[ArkDem]

20. Yep, If the baptismal font had been made of paper we wouldn't

be discussing this.

[Flubadubya]

19. I think it's rather sad...

no doubt this was a good man with a family who will miss him. So sorry. And why is this a "headline topic" on this forum?

[rzemanfl]

21. Hard to work up much sympathy for this guy. n/t

[onenote]

51. why? what do you know about him that would justify that statement?

I don't know anything about him other than that he was a Baptist minister at a church at Baylor University and that he had a wife and children.

If you can't work up any sympathy for a family that has suffered such a grevious loss, I think that's sad.

onenote

[Walt Starr]

80. Well, he was a big enough idiot to fiddle with electronics while standing

in a FUCKING POOL OF WATER!!!

It's difficult to have any level of sympathy for that brazen act of utter STUPIDITY!!!

[rzemanfl]

84. Thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself. Although I might

have said something about his performing a supersitious ritual.

[nookiemonster]

86. Agreed.

Science, be damned!!!!!!

Very tragic accident, but pretty damn dumb too.

Whoever came up with this hairbrain idea should be GROUNDED!

***rimshot***

"Thank you! Remember to tip your servers. Try the veal."



edited for spelling

[rzemanfl]

85. Here's a guy performing a superstitious ritual while standing in

water and using microphone connected to the power grid. My sympathy is about at the same level as the sympathy his type would show to someone who was hurt in a meth lab explosion or to the family of an abortion doctor who was murdered by some fundie wackjob.

[snowbear]

22. Wow... very bizzare incident!

Toooo strange! :o

[Pepper32]

24. I know... And so is their reaction while he was being electrocuted.

"Everyone just immediately started praying." :crazy:

[Walt Starr]

26. I support government funding of electronic microphones for "dunkers"

:evilgrin:

[xchrom]

27. ok -- first -- this is sad and condolences.

second: survival of the fittest at work!

this was god's way of telling people evolution is his/her plan!

[BeTheChange]

29. Predicitable, if not compassionate.

My husband read this story earlier and said, "The folks at DU must be having a fantastic day, all in a lather.. a Christian died.. they like it when stuff like that happens."

My husband refuses to read DU and does not understand why I insist upon reading it. We are both Christians. I of course shook my head and hoped that I wouldnt logon to find the completely inappropriate comments that usually accompany issues regarding religion.

Sur-freaking-prise.

This place makes me nauseous sometimes. Big. tent. my. fucking. ass.

[Walt Starr]

33. Well fuck all, non-Christians aren't supposed to have opinions about

the fucking assholes who oppress us.

FUCK THAT SHIT!

:eyes:

[BeTheChange]

35. Yeah, you're right this guy was your opressor..

Him and David Chowder, while the ruminate on Rumi.. they are your opressors.

You are right. What the hell was I thinking?

Cause all Christians are Jerry Falwell.

I forgot.

[Walt Starr]

38. I don't hear liberal Christians on television decrying Jerry Fallwell

Until I do, fuck it all.

[mitchum]

52. In complete agreement with you, Walt...

it wasn't OUR faith that was hijacked by right wing fascists. I too would like to see progressive christians take back THEIR faith from these jackals.

[Clark2008]

36. I don't oppress you, but you sure as hell oppress Christians

around here.

Maybe not YOU, in particular, but many do.

For the last fucking time, Not All Christians Are Fundie Wackos!

Learn it.

[Walt Starr]

37. It's YOUR religion, police your OWN FUCKING WHACKJOBS!

It's not my job to police the whackjobs in YOUR religion. Don't like being lumped in with them, better get the message out that they are WHACKJOBS!

The biggest complaint I hear about Islam is that people never hear Muslims decrying their own whackjobs.

Same shit applies here. It's up to Christians to demonstrate they have whackjobs. I've had to decry Pagan whackjobs in ELF and Earth First enough, same applies to you!

[BeTheChange]

40. Should I do the same thing about whackjob reactionary democrats?

just curious.

[Walt Starr]

41. I've never heard of a Pagan killing themselves by being STUPID enough

to stand in a pool of water while fiddling with electronics during a religious ritual.

:eyes:

The man deserves the Darwin award. He was taken out of the gene pool by natural selection.

[BeTheChange]

44. I forgot, religious affiliation = intelligence.

Im sure in the history of any other religion or even nonreligious group people havent made simple mistakes that led to their demise.

It's only us Christians that are STUPID enough to do something like that. I forgot. Cause in your mind, if we are stupid enough to believe in God, everything else we do must just be really infantile by comparison, eh?

You never did answer my question about the "hypothetical" reactionary dem.

[Walt Starr]

45. Sorry, playing with electronics while standing in a pool of water

is not a "simple mistake".

It's STUPIDITY!

Igorance can be cured. Stupidity is terminal, as evidenced by this moran (sic).

The guy was a WHACKJOB and decided his own fate by being STUPID

[renate]

87. my uncle made a stupid mistake that nearly cost him his life

He was doing some yardwork for my grandmother, cutting some branches off a tree; he lost his balance and instinctively grabbed for a branch, the branch didn't hold his weight, and he fell sixteen feet off a ladder. It took him years to fully recover.

I guess that could be called a stupid mistake, but there didn't seem to be anything funny about it even though, sure, he should have known better. Maybe someone who doesn't like people who do yardwork would have gotten a kick out of it.

[ArkDem]

78. No, usually it would be from something intelligent like, oh,

auto-erotic asphyxiation. Found dead while sitting on a sausage....:+

[Dark]

49. You mean 'Mad as Hell' Zell?

I don't think anyone here would object to us speaking out against Zell.

[BeTheChange]

56. Not exactly, but something like that. nt

[ChairmanAgnostic]

70. absolutely. And we do. When we have criminals and morons in our ranks

DU is up in front calling for change. We do police our own and we do out the nutjobs.

Just look at some of the threads involving the corrupt governor of Illinois, Blagojavich (D).

But I have yet to see any "true" christian leader complain about Pat's call to assassinate Chavez, or complain about those who are forcing Kansas schools to teach that the earth is flat, 6000 yrs old and Adam and Eve rode Dino the Dinosauer to the garden of Eden. Nor has one publically decried the faith based initiatives used by the Bush administration to aid in his election, considering that only fundie christian groups seemed to get the tax payer dollars.

[Clark2008]

42. I just did and have been.

Read any number of my posts on the subject.

Who said this preacher was a whackjob? I don't know that he was and neither do you. The lack of sympathy for a young husband and father and his family on this thread is just idiocy - and not very "big tent."

[Walt Starr]

47. Fiddling with electronics while standing in a pool of water

falls under the category of WHACKJOB as far as I'm concerned.

[RB TexLa]

60. I'll stand with you on that

[tx_dem41]

55. Atheism does not equal victimization.

I resent that you would attempt to couch me that way. I also resent that you are leading some to believe that Atheists are inhumane and quite frankly inhuman.

Atheism is not that way, but you sure have led many to believe that on this thread. If you want to wallow in pitful victimization, do it under some other -ism, please!

[Walt Starr]

81. When the fuck did I say anything about Atheism?

Point to me where I said any of that about Atheism! I DARE YOU!

[punpirate]

62. Big tent is actually a phrase more frequently used,...

... to not much good effect, by the Republicans. :shrug:

But, let's back up a minute and consider this. If you were not a devout Christian, you might, from a distance, acknowledge the black-humor aspects of this event. It's a bit like other, older stories of church steeples catching on fire after being hit by lightning.

What makes such news stories more difficult these days is that there is an element in this country which is seeking--with the help of the religious Christian right--to overturn basic Constitutional principles about separation of church and state. That's not just an intellectual construct which has no bearing on daily life. It's very real, and the changes in law which are proposed by such so-called Christians are, in fact, threatening to basic liberties now guaranteed by the Constitution. Some people--particularly some of those at DU--see that tendency to subvert the Constitution as dangerous, and lump in all who defend Christianity above Constitution as politically aligned with the Christian fundamentalists who possess suspect aims. That you must understand.

You make a point of describing your husband's refusal to read anything here because he might encounter views about Christianity different from his own--or worse, which seem threatening to his faith. While most Christian faiths seek to promote practical ways of avoiding having one's faith tested, the Bible does say, in various ways, that the untested faith is no faith at all. If your husband cannot brook any disagreement or dissent, perhaps he has no will to test his faith.

No matter. Let's try to be plain about this. There is a force in this country which can be described as corporate Christianity. It's not easily distinguishable from non-political Christianity because those churches espousing no political involvement will not raise their collective voices, publicly, against those other Christians who seek to obtain control of the government and the political process. There are exceptions (such as Barry Lynn, of Americans United for Separation of Church and State), but, by and large, moderate Christians have not sought to challenge their radical, politically-motivated evangelical brethren, in part, because they, too, believe that they have an obligation to spread the Gospel, as the Gospels dictate.

To a significant number of people in this country, Christianity is no longer a Constitutionally-protected religion; rather, they believe it has used its Constitutional protections to become a threat to the Constitution itself. That version of Christianity is an enemy because its most vocal proponents are seeking to overturn law, history and common decency for the purposes of gaining political power far beyond demographic strength; compounding that perception are the persistent examples of those defending their Christian faith without also showing the willingness to acknowledge why non-Christians fear the political impact of the corporate Christians. Many here see the same fundamentalist impulses in the radical Christian right as they do in fundamentalist Islamic groups--and that scares the hell out of them.

When moderate Christians utterly fail to completely disassociate themselves--in strenuous and public fashion--from the corporate Christians and their professed policies, you're going to see a backlash from people who are politically threatened by the Christian dominionists and reconstructionists. You're going to be seen as a fellow traveler of the worst in Christianity, rather than the best.

The Rev. Kyle Lake was a Southern Baptist. The Southern Baptists have lately (notably in their recent Conventions) been a particularly visible force supporting not only George W. Bush and his aggregate idiocy, but have also been supportive of profoundly theocratic tendencies. If there's derision of Lake for his obvious lack of scientific awareness apparent in his death, it might be because the Southern Baptists, quite politically, have sought to force their faith on the science curriculums in the public schools. And that, like it or not, is most ironic.

Cheers.

[lonestarnot]

30. Damn...

[Ilsa]

39. I guess he missed that day in physical science class.

The lesson where the teacher explains how poorly water and electricity go together for us folks.

[Walt Starr]

48. He didn't buy into the theory of electrical resistance

and instead believed in intelligent electrons.

:evilgrin:

[SoCalDem]

43. Praise Jesus...Bzzzzzztzzzzzztzzzzzzt

sorry couldn;t help myself.. I'lll save y'all a seat in Hell :)

[mshasta]

53. lol

that is so funny....he felt the rant and rave from God!!..

[tallahasseedem]

50. Devine Intervention?

Makes you wonder.

[burrowowl]

57. Can he be nominated for

the Darwin Awards?!?!?

[snowbear]

59. Why did his group stand around and pray when he needed help?

What's up with that!?!?

[BeTheChange]

61. They didnt..

I find it rather telling that is the conclusion some of you are coming to. Doctors in the audience immediately rushed to help. This has been reported in SEVERAL different stories. And nowhere in the story that is referenced by the OP does it say, "and they stood around and prayed while nobody aided him".

[B Calm]

63. Just say no to being baptized!

[jbnow]

64. What strange reactions

He had two little kids. Whoever he was that makes this a sad story.

Electricity and water don't mix. For the life of me I don't know how it could be safe, but we can assume this had been set up to be safe. The microphone was always used. Something went wrong this time.
They wrote it's being investigated but whatever they learn I don't think they'll use that system again, or if they do I'll agree it's fine to mock them.

I don't like religion and I do not go to church but why laugh at tragedy or assume a minister is an enemy.
It just sounds like the ways freepers would react to a liberal dying. It bothers me more when we do it.

[Mad_Dem_X]

83. Yes, it makes us no better than

Freepers when we laugh at someone's tragic death.

[lynne]

65. After reading this thread -

- am I correct in thinking that Christian's are not welcome in this forum and in the Democratic party? Or is it only Baptist that are restricted? What about Methodist and Catholics? Are they allowed to participate here?

Should we Democrats that are also Christian just forward this thread to our fellow Dem church members or will we get an official letter telling us that our vote is no longer needed by the Democratic party because we are practicing Christians?

[xchrom]

67. uh -- i'm christian -- and don't feel in the least oppressed here.

but then again -- i'm fully aware of christian history -- perhaps a little more accurate reading of christian history and the bible would help you gain perspective.

few have been as oppressive as christians have -- so it's time to understand that and liberate yourself from narcissistic points of view about the faith.

the faith can take anger, critisism{it's human institution after all, and so very flawed} and most of all it can take change.

[tx_dem41]

69. What does that have to do with laughing and making light...

of a man dying a violent death in front of his wife and kids and 800 other people?

[xchrom]

72. did you read the post i responded to?

and trust me -- with my history of dealing with friends and lovers dying by the bucketful -- i'm entitled to find humour in dark situations.

you wouldn't believe the number of so called ''good christians'' who acted out in the most sensitive times.
and the language they used?
doesn't begin to compare with anything here.

so spare me your umbrage.

[tx_dem41]

76. So...two wrongs make a right...

you don't know anyone involved in this story, but you use your bigotry to make light of a tragedy. That's a wonderful principle you have going for you. :eyes:

[lynne]

71. Anger and criticism is one thing -

- and if that was all that was metered out here, I wouldn't mind. It's the tone of disgust and hatred towards Christian's that I find offensive here. The mockery and glee shown in this thread about the death of a man during a Baptism is absolutely shameful coming from members of a party that proclaim it is all-inclusive and preaches tolerance and love.

I am also aware of Christian history and know that Christian's - like many faith's - have done their share of oppressing. However, they've also been victimized as have members of most other faiths. But I'm not talking about church history. I'm talking about the way Christian's are treated here.

I was raised by two very fine Christian Democrats who were faithful members of their congregations and devoted many hours to working for the church. When I see this constant cursing at and bitching about Christian's here it certainly leaves me with the impression that tolerance towards religion isn't something that is practiced at DU.

[xchrom]

74. their share?!?!

see -- that's my point -- there are few corners of planet earth that christians have not terrorized while trying to convert -- not that good people haven't done good works{that's what we are supposed to do}.

now you are confronted with anger and outrage and you act hurt, oppressed -- and it's not true.

there aren't enough numbers of non-christian folks anyway to really threaten{not physically} you -- so it's out of line period.

and this is the internet -- if somebody dishes you -- dish it back.
no harm no foul -- but this pretend outrage after the damage we christians have done is phony.

[tx_dem41]

77. You sure know a lot about the man who died and his family.

Or is it just stereotyping and bigotry that afflict you?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

66. Another DU sinks to FR level thread.

Hating people ain't nearly enough to make a progressive.

[mwb970]

73. Are we allowed to comment on how silly "baptism" is?

Probably not. I'll shut up.

[Dutch]

75. A young father dies suddenly in front of his family...

And a steady line of supposed "progressives" here step forward to laugh about it. Truly, this thread has got anything Freeperland could produce matched in terms of sickness.

[Mad_Dem_X]

82. I agree - a tragic accident

Just because the victim was a "fundie" doesn't mean we can't show a little compassion, espcially for his wife and kids. I thought that's what separated us from the Freepers.

[beaconess]

93. Agree - this is disgusting and shameful

As despicable as hearing a room full of bigots laugh at the tragic death of Jews or blacks.

These people hooting and howling over the tragic death of a man, purely because he may be a fundamentalist Christian don't represent any segment of the Democratic Party that I know.

[hippiegranny]

79. I know it was bad

and not what I want to stand for - but I did laugh. The irony is simply too rich. I feel terrible for his family, of course.

[onenote]

88. question for those who think this is funny

If a child being baptized had been killed along with the pastor would you think the accident was twice as funny or half as funny?

Personally, I don't know anything about this guy other than that, in addition to being a pastor, he was someone's husband, father, and son. And he died young.

If we're at the point of enjoying the deaths of our political opponents, we've really lost our way.

onenote

[PassingFair]

90. Nope, if a child had been killed...

we nasty, ungodly bastards would be calling for manslaughter charges against the pastor!
Stupid is as stupid does.

[No Exit]

91. Looks like The Rapture kind of crep' up on 'im...

[QC]

94. We have no room to gripe about the freepers anymore.

This thread is as vile as anything that has ever disgraced that other site.

[The Magistrate]

95. Locking

This has gotten ugly.