Have our dems really been spineless this whole time, or.....

[Catch22Dem]

Or has this been part of some elaborate scheme by some of our most rooted leaders. Think with me for a second here and then slap me around for being a morAn.

When the SCOTUS installed their boy, we still had some dems who would stand up to him. His approval ratings were shit from day one and the country was split pretty much 50/50. Then 9/11 happened...their trifecta. I think the dem leadership knew the country was going to rally around and they were going to have to walk on eggshells.

Ok, now think about all the ridiculous bullshit the Dems have allowed to happen and how little they fought it. They basically let the pukes run roughshod over the entire country.

Do you think this is possible: The dem leaders, realizing there was a very good chance after 9/11 that winning elections against repukes in this "post 9/11 world" where everyone says we should rally behind the presnit, would be next to impossible. So, rather than fight and risk permanent irrelevence, they threw (or knowingly let the pukes steal) the 02 and 04 elections. This gave the pukes miles and miles of rope with which to hang themselves. Now, skip to today where the dem leadership basically did an "in your fucking face" move to the already embattered repukes. There's no mistaking the spine in our leaders, not today anyway.

Have they been watching repukes hang themselves daily for 4 years while waiting for the perfect time to strike back? Pukes need to face it; they're on the brink of DECADES out of power. 55% think Bush's presidency is a failed one. Compare to Clinton AFTER he was impeached where 77% thought his was a success. Those numbers CANNOT be ignored by either side.

They screwed the pooch.

Has this been part of a long-term strategy?

[SharonRB]

1. I can't imagine that they actually planned it all,

but if it works out that way, great.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. they have been spineless. Groups like DU pushed them back into an ICU

and their heart replacements have grafted well. they are getting healthier every day.

[LittleClarkie]

16. I think you give us too much credit and them too little.

We are far from the base here.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. Perhaps a more centered answer is true?

i doubt that the dems in office waited until yesterday to show a spine BY DESIGN.
They had no such long term plan.

And I doubt that we alone pushed anyone into anything. But our voices were not ignored and had some impact, (as did the thousands of letters we generated) and to that end, we done did good.

[NVMojo]

3. I"ve met Reid. I've always been under the impression that he did what

you are suggesting ....to end up with the hanging rope ...because one way or the other, none of this was going to turn around over night with them controlling every level of government and the media ...

[MuseRider]

9. He seems to be

a cagey one and thank goodness he knows how to pull a one two punch. I guess they were not expecting the two punch to wait until the time was right.

[Catch22Dem]

21. What were the two punches?

I just got back. I assume punch one was taking down the Senate for the day. What was #2?

[MuseRider]

24. Sorry

just a phrase. He seems to set them up then knock them down. I was just thinking that he has been setting this up (punch 1) then waiting until the time was right and knocking them down (punch 2). We may have prefered it sooner but politically this could not be a better time.

The Republicans seem to be floundering, lol, and nobody trusts them now (or almost nobody) and here come the Democrats with a leader and a plan and a message. That is a damn fine punch I say.

[Catch22Dem]

26. Yeah, I'd say so too

Good call

[mestup]

4. Interesting thought, but the Dems don't seem that uh...organized.

They have no Roves or Delays or "architects."

[melody]

19. Rove and Delay are just sociopaths, they aren't organized

Serial killers get through life a lot faster and with greater ease, because they have no conscience and don't care about any one but themselves. It helps grease the wheel. They aren't "architects" - they are Luca Brazzi in Domenico Vacca.

[mestup]

20. LOL! Good descriptions.

No, Dems don't want Luc Brazzi's in their ranks.

[sandnsea]

5. Not to worry

Y'all will be screaming about spineless Dems by the end of the week.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Your theory assume intelligent control

I'd say it was more in line with the chaos theory.

But your events progession, and where it seems to be pointing, is reasonable.

[Catch22Dem]

7. Don't go calling me reasonable...

I'll be screwed up for WEEKS! :rofl:

[Bryan]

8. I think your premise makes sense, but...

I don't think that level of Machiavellian gamesmanship was at work. There may have been a concerted effort to play it safe until there was a clear sign of weakness like the Miers flap + *'s shitty approval numbers, but anything more elaborate than that is somewhat absurd.

The Congressional Dems planned to spend X number of years in the doghouse? They planned to lose an indeterminate number of seats, give up untold numbers of programs, sacrifice an unknown number of lives? Even if a caper like that worked, the risk of losing too much ground and winding up a semi-permanent minority is too large to make it worthwhile, even in the most cold-blooded terms...

[rock]

10. My opinion since you asked

They're kicking while bushsucks* is down. Not exactly spineless. Don't get me wrong - I'm cackling with glee!

[Demobrat]

11. No. The Dems who voted for the war

did it out of political cowardice - for the sake of their careers - end of story.

The difference is that up until now they could hide behind the inference that they knew something the public didn't. That lie has been blown wide open. They didn't know anything - there was nothing to know.

Now they have to cover their butts.

Let's hope that in the process they manage to do some good for somebody besides themselves.

[sofa king]

23. That's where the ambush comes in.

Senate Republicans had just finished strangling the Intelligence Committee's investigation into pre-war intelligence.

I'll bet they thought they'd get away with it, because so many Dems voted for the war.

Instead, Reid drops the bomb on these guys, hitting the press with this:

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Democrats_detail_times_their_efforts_to_1101.html

And somewhere in all this flurry of news, I saw somewhere that there was also a letter, signed by 40 Democrats.

This is how the Dems get out from under the blanket of cover-up: they point the finger first. (Senator Rockefeller, I suspect, is going to have a tougher time of it, though. On the other hand, maybe he's the guy who came up with the idea.)

Roberts, Hatch, and Bond are double-duty screwed, because they cooked up the bullshit Plame report that spits out the White House's talking points.

This is definitely a risky war, because the Democrats are effectively trying to use public opinion to force Senate Republicans to investigate themselves. If it works, who knows how many of 'em are going to wind up dick-in-the-dirt. If it doesn't, well, not a hell of a lot changes, does it?

[DURHAM D]

12. The beautiful thing is that if Senator Roberts had done

part II of the 9/11 investigation in the previous two years they could have immunized all the treason players during the senate hearings, thus cutting Fitzgerald off at the knees.

Reid and Rockafeller may have been working to delay the hearings behind the scenes and waiting, and waiting for this moment. As others have said, don't play poker with Reid.

[FloridaPat]

13. They've been doing this since Reagan. 25 years to wait for the repubs

to implode seems like a really stupid idea.

[Joe Chi Minh]

14. I think it has been with Kerry.

I think he's familiar with the kind of mindset of these types, and he knew it was just a matter of enough time and enough rope. If he could see a "root and branch" purging of the military-industrial complex's worst political point-men as a certainty - as I believe he did - then it made sense not to fight that last election verdict, at best, just to suffer the kind of obstructionism Bill Clinton had to face.

[MsUnderstood]

15. I hope not. . .

I don't want out government to be all about getting the best of the other guy at the expense of money, lives, property and freedom.

I'd rather believe the democrats were scattered and fearful then cagey and ruthless.

And if that were the case, there were plenty of other times to step up.

[Iris]

17. could be - when you are so outnumbered it's probably smart to choose your

battles.

[Writer]

18. It made the difference between a 45 seat minority and a 35 seat minority

in the Senate. There was no way that we could NOT be a minority party after 9/11. No way. I don't think they had a master plan, but I think they thought prudently, week by week, session by session, through the months. Their goal was to maintain as much power as possible during a particularly diseased era of American history. And they did so effectively.

Spineless? No. NOT EVER. Smart? Absolutely!

[hippiegranny]

22. Well, nice as that scenario is,

I kind of doubt it. I think we really wanted to win in '02 and '04 and naively believed in the voting process.

[Totally Committed]

25. Nope, they've been spineless...

but, today was a good start. I want to see more of the same from them.