Dean supporters. Is it Dean or nobody else?

[Cascadian]

I just want to see how many of us supporters will end up not voting for the Democratic Party nominee if Dean is not nominated. I am sure there are some of you out there. I want to know what will you do if Dean does not get the nomination?


John

[Cascadian]

1. I will vote the Democratic nominee albeit reluctantly.

They will not get my money or anything like that. No buttons or bumper stickers, but I will vote for the Democratic nominee.


John

[krkaufman]

15. Outsider

I support Clark (didn't vote in your above poll!), but feel the same way you do should we (the Dems) end up nominating Kerry. No money, no campaigning; just my vote.

"Kerry will get my vote when he pries it from my cold, dead campaign's hand."

:)

[_Jumper_]

2. Dean or Bush? That is the real question.

Remember what happened in 2000...

[joshcryer]

3. I will vote for the nominee...

Very reluctantly.

[KeepItReal]

11. Same Here

Kerry or Edwards will have hell to pay when they try to explain in a debate with Bush & Co. how they got suckered into voting for the Iraq invasion. But maybe Democratic voters won't care about that.

I also can't see these two really firing up African-Americans like me. I remember the Congressional Black Caucus in 2000 asking Democratic Senators, to no avail, to stand up and challenge the selection on Bush & Co. I also don't recall these two candidates standing up for Rep. Cynthia McKinney who said that the Iraq invasion was being based on B.S. (my words not hers). But maybe African-American Democratic voters have shorter memories than me.

Assuming Kerry or Edwards gets the nod, what's gonna be my motivation to vote for one of these two, other than Anyone-But-Bush?

Hopefully, Bush & Co. will continue to make boneheaded moves (immigration policy changes, anyone?) that will allow a Kerry or Edwards to win.

[krkaufman]

17. Independents and crossover-Republicans

> Kerry or Edwards will have hell to pay when they
> try to explain in a debate with Bush & Co. how they
> got suckered into voting for the Iraq invasion. But
> maybe Democratic voters won't care about that.

Agreed, it likely won't matter so much to Dems and ABBers. But it won't do much for selling Independents and potential Republican-crossovers on their campaigns, swing votes that will be needed to snuff out *.

[ibegurpard]

4. It's Dean or someone who will stand up for traditional Democratic

constituencies even if advisors or polls tell them it might hurt their presidential ambitions. Obviously that's not Kerry.

[_Jumper_]

5. What about Edwards and Clark?

n/t

[OneBlueSky]

6. I'm not a Deanie, but here's how I see it . . .

I will vote for whoever the Democrats nominate . . . I'm supporting Kerry, but with full knowledge of his shortcomings, including the IWR vote . . . however, our overriding goal this year must be to elect a Democrat to the presidency . . . any one of them will be far, far better than Bush, will overturn Bush's most egregious policies, and will trash the PNAC doctrine . . . and no matter who wins, we progressives will at least have a seat at the table and the ear of the president . . . we'll convince him on some issues, and we won't on others, but at least we'll be in the game . . . if Bush wins, we'll remain on the sidelines, with absolutely no policy input . . . so it's ABB all the way for me . . . let's elect whichever Democrat can win, and we'll get back to arguing our favorite issues after he's inaugurated . . .

[IndianaGreen]

7. Just watch a replay of Bush's SOTUS speech

and you will know what to do.

BTW, I am against ABB on philosophical grounds. It is an unconditional loyalty oath used to pressure people into compliance. IOW, it is the tool used by the likes of DLC CEO Al From to keep the sheep in line while he is busy at work getting his guy nominated.

A vote against Bush in November is nothing more than a short-term tactical alliance. Election of a Democrat will not solve the nation's ills, or eliminate social injustice at home and imperial aggression abroad.

We could easily see ourselves demonstrating for peace against Bush on January 19, 2005, only to do the same thing six months later against a Democratic President to force him to withdraw from Iraq and to end imperialist intervention in places such as Venezuela.

For a break with the Democratic Party

The central historical problem of the American working class has been its inability to break from the bourgeois parties and establish its own mass independent party. The established two-party system offers only the illusion of choice. Both the Democrats and the Republicans, whatever their differences, accept and defend the social framework of American capitalism: the domination of all aspects of life by private wealth and production for profit.

<snip>

In the 2004 campaign, these left-talking politicians will once again seek to put off the critical question of establishing the political independence of the working class from both big business parties. They will seek to divert the mass opposition to Bush behind whichever candidate emerges from the Democratic nomination contest. They all subscribe to the position of “anyone but Bush,” as though Bush were the only weapon of American capitalism, rather than one of many instruments of the ruling elite.

All such “lesser evil” politics are truly a dead end for the working class. There is no shortcut in the struggle against imperialist war and social reaction.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jan2004/stat-j27.shtml

[FubarFly]

8. The nominee will have to earn my vote.

My standards are actually pretty easy to meet.

Unfortunately, only Dean and Kucinich have earned my support. Edwards is on the fence.

There's still time for the others. I am an eternal optimist.

---

Note: Admonishments for blind loyalty are part of what turned me away from ABB in the first place. I don't respond well to brow-beating. If you want me to support your candidate, try a different tactic. If you don't care about my vote, then enjoy four more years of b*sh. ;-) The apathetic/disillusioned/new voter needs to be wooed for the Dem nominee to be successful. Appeals to fear or ridicule will ultimately be trumped by b*sh.Does your candidate have what it takes to win?

[sventvkg]

9. I'll vote the party but I will bet anyone any amount that we loose...

It's over and I'm going off Grid..I'm sure you'll flame me but MARK THE WORDS HERE..Our only hope was to shake up the mockery of a Democratic Washington Establishment and Dean was the man..He has been destroyed and someone like a Kerry will not be enough of a difference compared to a George Bush, to make people really give a shite...Therefore we DEFINITELY loose...It's SOOO OVER!!!! Who wants to take a bet???I would state my life on it....And it really really sucks that The Dem party sucks this bad...

[Cascadian]

10. If the Democrats lose in November

Turn out the lights. The party's over! Then the Democratic Party will be dead! Of course some Democrats will still be in total denial that the Republican Lite act does not work!

John

[OneBlueSky]

12. you greatly underestimate the disgust with George W. Bush . . .

not only among Democrats, but among independents and even Republicans . . . by the time November rolls around, my hunch is that the voters will elect Gilbert Gottfried before returning Bush to office . . . the one caveat being we don't know if it will be a fair election, given the electronic voting issue and all that encompasses . . .

[sventvkg]

13. oh yea, how much would you bet? I would bet my life....We are through

Do you really think an insider who supported neocon agenda is really going to be a serious alternative??? I personally think the Fix is in and I think the Facists control and left and right now..Skull and Bones type shit.

[FubarFly]

16. You are not alone.

I literally talk to about a hundred voters a day. I mean it. If the party fractures or even so much as splinters, we will lose. Kerry had better shore up the base- and soon.

[OKNancy]

18. That's what was said in 2002

I remember all the optimism here on DU leading up to election 2002 and the day. We are surrounded with choir member, but "out there" it is going to be very hard to beat Bush. We need every vote!

[dansolo]

28. Doesn't that belie the electability argument?

If the disgust with Bush was so great, "electability" would be a non-factor.

[NoPasaran]

14. Loyalty oaths

Screw 'em.

[CWebster]

19. But why are Dean supporters always singled out & targeted?

Is it because none of the other candidates could win the GE without Dean's base?

That would make the other candidates less electible, wouldn't it?

[FubarFly]

20. I guess some candidates don't need the South ,

or the base, not to mention the Southern base.

[IndianaGreen]

21. Kerry did say that he didn't need the South

But Bush may be competitive in California...

[Wonco_the_Sane]

22. Dean will be nominated...I hope

Of course I will vote for nominee, but I'm far from convinced that Dean is no longer viable. (I vote super Tuesday, OHIO)


P.S. GO SONICS...GO SEAHAWKS!!! (next year) :(

[WonderGrunion]

23. I will vote for the eventual nominee.

But, I expect Howard Dean to stay in it straight through until the convention. If somebody other than Dean should win the nomination, I want that candidate to realize that their are a lot of delegates there that are royalled PO'ed at the democratic establishment and are looking for a change from business as usual politics.
I asked Dr. Dean at a rally in Bangor, Maine to never stop fighting for change. He replied that with supporters like us fighting for him, he would never stop fighting for us.
So for me, it's Dean until the convention, and then if someone else gets the nod, I expect some recognition of the shioft in the mood of the party.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. I'll be voting anti-war. Dean, Clark or Green.

I'll not be supporting anyone who backed the slaughter. Bush, Kerry, or Edwards.

[napi21]

32. You certainly have that right, but

Please give some serious thought to the consequences.

First, I assume you are talking aobut the vote in November.

If so, spliting the democratic vote will do nothing but give the advantage to GWB. You do remember he was the one who started this war don't you? Even if the nominee ends up being Kerry, Edwards, or Clark, all of them are better for the Country than GWB!!!!!

I still support Dean. I don't write him off at all. Lets all wait until Super Tues. and see what happens.

We MUST NOT do anything that could help re-elect GWB! What a disaster that would be!!!!!!!!!!!

[bowens43]

25. You left out a choice.

It depends on who gets the Democratic Nomination.

[edzontar]

26. I will VOTE for the non-Dean nominee, but will not donate

Or work in any way for a DINO IWR-supporter.

I'll show up and pull the lever, which is more than they deserve.

After that, my options are open, and I will NEVER vote for a DINO-DLC-er ever again.

[dansolo]

27. My vote, and nothing else

That way when we lose the election, Dean won't be used as a scapegoat.

[Nazgul35]

29. Bad poll....

It is not mutually exclusive and exhaustive....

A respondent could agree with the first category - The Dem nominee, and also agree with the last category - No way, Dean's gonna win....

But I guess we pick up habits from the SCLM that are hard to break!

:evilgrin:

[MercutioATC]

30. The nominee gets my vote...reluctantly.

EXTREMELY reluctantly if it's Kerry.

[deutsey]

31. I'm voting for the nominee, but

I will probably also leave the Democratic Party and register as an independent (small "d" democrat). That's where I was heading when Dean's campaign convinced me to stay with the Party.

[napi21]

33. Why?

I really wonder why the establishment doesn't recognize how much Dean has done for the Party? It was dying on the vine until Howard reved it up again, now all the other candidated are copying him.

I still think he has a good chance of making it!