Red Staters: anecdotal stories here.

[kansasblue]

Ok I'm in a red state but even the most loyal of Bush supporters see the problems. So what are they saying?

My Bush supporter friends are saying that 'sure Bush is having some problems, don't agree with this or that. Effing up this and that. The war is one big screw-up'

So I ask what are you going to do next election? ' Vote Republican' they answer.

I note that it's not really an affective way to use democracy by rewarding incompetence. But then I hear that just one Republican screwing up doesn't invalidate the principles of the party. He notes his beliefs haven't changed and he sure as hell isn't voting Democratic.

I bang my head on the wall a few times and life goes on.

Life in Kansas

[mestup]

1. "I wish McCain was our president right now."

That's what I hear from Repubs in my Very Red Half of a Blue State. Never, "I wish Gore (Kerry) was..."

[MuseRider]

2. I have a similar one

from last night.

I was behind a car with a very new, very clean bumper sticker that said something like...Make a liberal mad Work hard and be happy. Right below it was a Bush/Cheney sticker that had been scraped off little by little with only enough left to see what it was.

Still Republican but not a Bush/Cheney supporter anymore.

Here in Kansas too. It is astonishing.

[Critters2]

3. The most red-blooded Republican I know

today said that she "didn't want to believe it, but I know now that Bush has lied, and lied a lot". Then during a meeting later in the day, discussing NCLB, she said, "This administration is completely incompetent, and No Child Left Behind is the proof!"

If I had said such things, even 2 weeks ago, she'd have gone apoplectic. This really means, istm, that * is losing support. If even this unquestioning sheep is turning, the bushies are in trouble!

[deadparrot]

4. My grandmother's cousin...

She was married to a big Republican, but always voted Democratic...until 2004. She voted for Bush last year (we were in the midst of the Catholic Church mandating that "If you vote for Kerry, you're going to hell."), and she passed away a few weeks later from natural causes.

At the funeral, my grandmother (also a Democrat) saw one of her sons. She gave him her condolences, etc. After talking for a while, he said to her that she'd voted for Bush in the last election, "and we think it killed her."

[ourbluenation]

5. msg must b - voting for repubs is stoooopid unless your really rich.

somewhow we have to articulate that the dem party is the better party for the average american in so many ways...

[IndyOp]

7. Check my post just below yours --

we have a lot of work to do to convince AvAm that voting for repubs is stupid unless you are really rich...

[IndyOp]

6. They are still swimming in Rethug lies here --

The young man who came to help install a few lights told me all about how all of our problems are due to people on welfare - they don't have to work and they live better than he does. --> I tried to convince him that the wealthy are stealing a lot more money from his pocket than people on welfare and that if we focused on long-term solutions (education, jobs programs) there would not be nearly as many people on welfare.

A woman I met at the local Habitat for Humanity community store told me that there weren't any jobs here because the employers have to pay taxes on US workers. --> I tried to convince here that this is a lie that wealthy corporatists tell people to cover up for the fact that they are greedy SOBS who move jobs out of the country so they can have big fat bank accounts.

I don't think I made progress with either person -

I did however get miraculously positive coverage of the MoveOn Candlelight Vigils to mourn the deaths of 2000 soldiers -- even the freeper campus paper wrote an excellent, sympathetic article.

So -- :shrug:

[teach1st]

8. From one Republican on my teacher board...

We have a politics section on my board for area teachers. Here's a reply from a smart conservative who has denounced Bush finally, to some BS being spread by a loyal Bush supporter:

The liberals on this board don't stifle free speech - it is encouraged.

I'm bored of your stale arguments. I'm bored of the Klinton remarks. I'm bored of Ted Kennedy. How about something other that the tired Rush is Right lines.

Are you up to the challenge? Can you bring it? Or will you continue to use the tactics from the NeoCon playbook: Spin, attack and smear - But never debate.

[Coyote_Bandit]

9. Here in JOklahoma

the fundie preachers are still singing the praises of * from the pulpit.

Though I must say that I see fewer W stickers and yellow ribbons these days. I'm guessing the 'pukes got new vehicles.

[arewenotdemo]

15. Lol

nm

[jedr]

10. when asked the poll question:

"Is the the country headed in the right direction", about 2/3 say no...when asked why, a fundie will tell you we have turned away from god, a neocon will say that government needs to be smaller, a repub will say , we need less taxes. the truth is that we have no message, and Kerry , and others, bumbling about; a day late and a dollar short shows our weakness. Don't get me wrong, I'm a yellow dog Dem, but until we give workable solutions, we won't get any cross-over votes. So as Edith-Ann used to say from her over-sized rocking chair( if you're old enough to remember Laugh In) " and that's the truth"

[BOSSHOG]

11. My mother in law lives in Kansas

She's 72 years old and has never voted for a republican and never will. She's a fiesty old Dem; who with a very cool calm and collected demeanor kicks bush's ass from one end of town to the other. My father in law passed away last year. He said he wouldn't spit on a republican let alone vote for one. God I miss him.

[arewenotdemo]

17. good sigline, BOSS

[MissMarple]

12. Maybe it is time to start educating them on what a liberal really is.

Since most of them have no idea what Democrats and liberals stand for, it time for a public education campaign, one of those subtle, "well, that makes some sense" efforts. We all, here at DU, take much of what we believe for granted, as if everyone should see it the same way. But they don't, the anti-tax mantras, the poor people are poor on purpose and want the government to support them themes, the "failing government schools" meme, the all liberals are evil commie socialists (isn't that a contradiction?) claim...all of that stuff they have been listening to for the last 25 years, they believe. No one has told them it's wrong, that it's part of a very successful propaganda prom gram to delude them for their votes, their blind support.

It is time to support the growing power of the progressive talk shows. We need a multi level approach that doesn't just come from the Democratic Party, on many levels it should be apolitical, it should just make sense. Progressive think tanks, opinion writers, magazines, and the maybe one liberal new program are a start. The problem is disseminating our timeless American values and ideas in a way that gets around the reactionary radical Republican sound machine.

Why are emergency rooms not the answer to the need for affordable health care, why is unregulated corporate expansion bad for the economy, why do we need good public schools, why is it in America's best interests to help the indigent toward self sufficiency, why is just putting people in jail not a good way to address crime, why do we need to get along with our world neighbors and not just try to browbeat them into some sort of compliance? Why does this faux Republican administration talk all around these issues in a pious, holier than thou manner, all the while working actively against these very issues?

It is shocking, but many average Americans cannot answer these questions. They don't even know it is happening. Many of these Americans I'm talking about are the middle and upper middle class professionals who are insulated in their Republican cocoons and who are intellectually lazy and basically incurious. But we cannot afford to write them off. We need them. America needs them to just wake up and look around at the real world George Bush and his cronies are busy transforming.

How do you dissipate the fog so they can see that following the tune of the Republican Party, as it is today, is like following the Pied Piper, and that he is likely taking us to hell?

[Jai4WKC08]

13. Only one problem...

I see a lot of posts in this thread showing that Repubs are figuring out that Bush is an incompetent liar.

Only one problem. We don't get to run against Bush next time.

If we Dems can't get our act together, convince people we can do better IN EVERY AREA (yes, defense too), they'll all just vote for the next Repub in line and hope he does better.

Fwiw, I live in rural Kansas, on the southwestern outskirts of Kansas City MO. The whole area is incredibly red, and yet a significant portion of them vote for Democrat Dennis Moore for Congress--enough that, combined with the blue parts of the district, Moore has been re-elected twice. So they can be convinced to vote for a Dem, but not the ones like we put up last time.

I spoke to plenty of neighbors who didn't want to vote for Bush in 2004. They're even less happy with him now. But they couldn't bring themselves to vote for a "Massachusetts liberal" like Kerry. They sure as hell ain't gonna vote for him or someone they perceive to be like him next time.

No matter how much they come to hate Bush, they'll vote for the Repub next time unless we put forward a nominee who reaches them where they live. Frankly, I see damn few on the horizon who can pull that off.

[DocSavage]

14. Fly over country

Also live in Kansas. Just refer to the last election map by counties. There is no way that a Mass Liberal would ever be voted for in fly over country. As I see it, it is trust and sceptisism. The Dem that is going to carry the rural parts of America better be pro guns, strong on defense, and not shown as cowering to the pro-choice crowd. He/she can be pro-choice, but better at least say that 3rd trimester abortions are bad and parenteral notification is OK. If you want to guarentee a loss of the farm belt, let us pick Sen. Clinton as our nominee. She may still win, but the election map will be just like 04 and nothing will get done with a republican controlled house and Senate.

[No Exit]

16. "Yes, but the democrats are worse."

I'd finally had enough of that one today. I told the Bush-follower that NO, the democrats AREN'T worse, and weren't this way at the height of their power. Problems, perhaps, but NOTHING like the take take take viciousness of the current repukelican looters and killers.

I told her that when the democrats were in power, I didn't have to worry about members of my family being KILLED, or worry that I couldn't afford MEDICINE and might therefore die.

Fuck republican supporters--all of them.