House Democrats perform a physically impossible feat ....

[OldLeftieLawyer]

They pile on to Jack Murtha, at the same time running away from him.

This is it for me. I will no longer send one penny to this fucking weenie bunch. I will, though, contribute to Murtha's reelection campaign.

Again, read it and weep:

"In his 37 years in the military, John Murtha won two Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star with a Combat "V," and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. As a Democratic congressman from Pennsylvania for the past 31 years, he has been a fierce hawk, championing conflicts in Central America and the Persian Gulf.

Yesterday, he was called a coward."

http://tinyurl.com/bbhqo

[Hoosier Democrat]

1. At least Murtha fought back in his speech...

I was actaually applauding in my family room (my sons thought I'd lost it) when Murtha talked about having been in combat and not getting deferrments... He was awesome.

Maybe some of the other Dems in Congress will grow some balls now.

I'm also going to contribute to Murtha's re-election campaign.

[Tsiyu]

2. Well, politicians are like toddlers

bellowing and whining egocentrics.

Murtha is making more sense than any politician these days when it comes to Iraq policy.

Who called him a coward?

[abluelady]

32. As we teach the toddlers

"Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never harm me."

Keep it up Congressman.

[Caution]

3. One issue voter eh?

Don't brook honest disagreement on some issues? Feel taht the party shoul dbe monolithic just like the Republicans? Gimme a break. Healthy disagreement within a party is a good, not a bad thing. You come together when the issue is clear to you. I'd rather my representatives had honest disagreements rather than acted monolithically because rigid party unity leads to abuse.

I agree whole-heartedly with Murtha. It is up to him and to us to convince those in the party who do not. Pulling your donations from the Democratic Party as a whole is not the way to do this because it only enables the Republicans. It is no different than voting for Nader in 2000 in protest to the Democrats.

[MrModerate]

7. I agree . . .

Murtha's stand is principled and (IMO) the only sensible way out of the quagmire -- declare ambiguity and leave.

With regard to the dems who didn't immediately jump on a pull-out-now bandwagon, I was disappointed but not surprised. And not altogether opposed to the use of caution here.

Admittedly, congressional dems have been cautious to the point of timidity for the last 5 years -- believing, I suppose, the 'Lican fantasy that America is entirely made up of bible-thumping war-loving wackos who you cross at your political peril -- but I think caution is in order here. Even the people who doubt the war don't want us to be seen to cut and run, and they will need to be brought along carefully if they are going to embrace a pull-out scenario.

While I could have wished for less smarmy disavowals from Pelosi and the like, I wouldn't want to give the warmongers an opportunity to make the "coward" and "traitor" labels at all sticky.

Let's let this one cook. Who knows what the dems are saying to Murtha behind closed doors?

[Dhalgren]

8. If you are afraid of the label "coward", then you are a coward...

[MrModerate]

9. Kerry wasn't afraid of the Swift Boat liars . . .

And it cost him the presidency. In politics, name-calling CAN hurt, and often does.

[Dhalgren]

11. Kerry was "hurt" by the boat scum because he didn't fight back.

The problem with most of our Democratic elected officials is that they think "ideals" and "principles" are things that you can support or ignore based upon how the wind blows. If you don't have the courage to stand for something when the chips are down, then you don't have courage. At least part of the reason that our country is in the shape its in is because the Democrats did not have the courage to stand up against the fascists who took control of this country six years ago. Caution is fine, in its place and time, but someone has got to start drawing blood now, and a lot of it , or we may never get out of the hole that the fascists (Republican and DLC) have put us in.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. Bingo

Kerry let them swamp him and never fought back, which seems to have become the standard behavior for Democrats.

Have they noticed that it is NOT WORKING?

Murtha took a stand, took on his challengers - his words about Hastert and Cheney were perfect - and stood alone.

Caution? If it's your kid who's killed while representatives dither over how "the plan" should be drawn up - it's been almost three years! - maybe caution isn't exactly your first priority.

Iraqis are killing Americans. What the fuck role does "caution" play in that?

[Dhalgren]

16. Hear! Hear!

[realFedUp]

4. I think Democrat leaders could have phrased statements better

he caught many by surprise and while it's not
surprising that Republicans called him names,
it would have been better if Pelosi et al had
supported his emotional statements about
withdrawing by saying they'd be working
towards a withdrawal.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

5. Exactly

That they're this cautious and pantywaisted when caught unprepared tells me what totally craven political beings they are. Murtha's willing to take a risk, but these weenies won't go near him until they know what it will mean for them, personally and professionally.

[leveymg]

6. Murtha backed Dean for the DNC Chair - Dean supports Murtha

This is no sudden conversion on Murtha's part to the anti-Iraq War movement.

I hope you haven't been giving money to the "OTHER" Committee. This from The Hill, Jan. 5, 05:

Murtha: Give Dean DNC chair
By Hans Nichols
http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHi ... s/Frontpage/010505/murtha.html

Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) is actively lobbying Democratic National Committee (DNC) delegates to select former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean as their next chairman.

The endorsement of the leading antiwar presidential candidate by one of the Democrats’ most prominent early supporters of the Iraq invasion signals a rehabilitation of Dean’s image in the House and greatly increases his prospects of leading the party, many Democratic lawmakers and aides said.
patrick g. ryan
Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) is writing letters in support of Howard Dean.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Several lawmakers said support by the hardscrabble, old-school Vietnam veteran, who endorsed former Rep. Dick Gephardt (D-Mo.) in the presidential primaries, would compel the DNC to take a second look at the firebrand governor and not simply write him off as an extreme avatar of the party’s antiwar wing.

SNIP

[skipos]

10. I am not a one issue voter. Dems won 05 and I will help them win 06.

[AlCzervik]

12. i've been waiting for someone to come out and second him, i was hoping

that at least some of them would step up to the mike and say "Murtha speaks for me" but nothing, nothing at all.

[havocmom]

13. To all who called OLL a 'one issue voter' you missed something

This is one thing on top of many others pushing OLL to take her stand. "This is it for me" does not equal 'everything else they have done is just peachy, but calling this guy a coward is THE ONE THING I won't stand.' It might just mean, 'This is one thing, one issue TOO MANY the DLC has been weak and cowardly on. This is ONE MORE bit of evidence that they do not stand for the ideals and principles I support. They have behaved badly on too many issues for me to support them.'

Perhaps she might have phrased it better, like: THIS one is the straw that breaks my camel's back or something like that, but if you have read many of her posts, you would know she is concerned with the whole general tone and lack of spines among the DLC. She is most certainly not alone in that feeling. Nor is she alone in choosing not to send them $$ just cuz they ask.

Hey, DLC, you want us to show you the $$? Then show us some spine! You have to be OUR EMPLOYEES. We are not tithing to you as god.

The issue that finally tips the scales of what one is willing to put up with is NOT something that makes one a single issue voter. It is the line you draw in your part of the sand. The line the other guy disregards at their own peril. Tipping point, not single issue.

And by the way, I fully expect OLL lawyer to climb my frame for trying to put words in her mouth, cuz that's da way she be ;) But I think a lot of people may have taken her remarks in the wrong vein.

Note to OLL: Next time, go for an artery. Veins just don't get the job done.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. Why, thank you..........

my very own interpreter.

I didn't understand what those people meant - "one issue"? So, I ignored them, because, clearly, they don't understand what I said.

My words were simple and clear. I make my living writing, so words are the coin of my realm and I spend them carefully. I do not, though, write "down" for the dummies.

The smart people got it, and the ones who didn't - well, their loss.

Now, havocmom, get over here, and let me give you ~ ~ ~

YES!!!

THE PUSSYCAT!!!!!!!!!!

[havocmom]

18. N, NOOOO! Keep her away from me! She's gonna hit me, I know it!

AAAAAAAAA....

OK, OLL, I think we can make this work. People might pay to see a cat fight between two old women. Which one of us is supposed to do derrogatory poetry about the other one in the promos?

Git over here where I can swat ya wit me walker...

Thanks for the cat, but, ewwwwwwww, the beer breath!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

20. You start

I've got to take a nap. It's almost 11 a.m. here.

<snort>

How's this?

[havocmom]

22. Take your nap, I gotta hitch up the team and head to town today.

We need to give our promoter some time anyway.

Hmm, rodents on ice... Did I ever tell ya about the cat that would hike up mountains so she could perch on Havocdad's shoulder as he skied down?
MeOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[leveymg]

17. The DLC doesn't need our nickles & dimes, anyway. They have their

patrons, and it ain't us:

[havocmom]

19. Big BINGO on that one!

When voters say 'They're all alike' and lose interest in the game, we have a problem.

We need a new message, say something offering REAL SOLUTIONS to problems. New messangers wouldn't hurt either.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. Murtha

He has opened such a HUGH fucking door. Who will be smart enough to walk through it?

I truly believe Murtha's statement created a pivotal moment - like when LBJ realized he had lost America's heartland, when Walter Cronkite spoke out against Vietnam - and that things good and true can come from it.

But, who will step up?

[leveymg]

24. We don't want a repeat of '68. A divided party or another Nixon

emerging "to bring us together".

My feeling is that the leader of the anti-war Dems will have to be a solid, almost unassailable figure. But, nobody comes to mind. Anyone less, and that person becomes the next Eugene McCarthy -- not what we need to get back into power.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

25. You're forgetting

that we had - for a while - Robert Kennedy. McCarthy only stepped in after the convention, betraying his own lack of courage. There was far too much ego in McCarthy, noble as his goals were.

I do believe there are potential candidates who could carry the banner proudly.

[leveymg]

26. Who?

I recall it was McCarthy who was initially the leader of the anti-war Dems. Kennedy didn't strongly come out front on the issue until mid-Spring of '68. Then, he was silenced.

Who is our Robert Kennedy, today?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

27. Bobby focused on poverty and civil rights,

for starters, but he was always opposed to what LBJ was doing in Vietnam - ignoring, of course, his late brother's complicity.

Right now, I think Jack Murtha is our Bobby Kennedy. I'm serious. I would throw all the cash I have on hand at him if he'd run for President.

Imagine this: A Murtha/Clark or Clark/Murtha ticket.

I do dream, don't I?

[leveymg]

28. That would be like a Audie Murphy/Eisenhower ticket. A bit monodimensional

Don't we even have a reliable Democratic machine pol (who happened to be an old artillery officer), like Truman, who might want to step forward?

How about Reid?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

29. I don't like Reid,

and I don't trust his judgment.

His flares of temper have been impressive and well-aimed, and they were well worth witnessing.

But he folded in the face of Frist's threat about the alleged "nuclear option," and we still don't know exactly what Reid gave away - except for the appointments of three utterly frightening antedeluvian judges to the Federal bench - until faced with a matter in which the filibuster might be appropriate.

I will say this, though - I see things in him that could truly be heroic, so I'm hoping.

I don't see Wes Clark as strictly military, though - I see him as a terrifically knowledgeable and sophisticated diplomat, with Murtha as the old pol who knows how the game is played.

They'd be terrific. I'm serious.

[leveymg]

30. Okay - I'll have to think about that one.

I figure the Hillary-DLC-MSM combine is the biggest stumbling block to retaking the White House in '08, and we're going to have to figure out what to do about it. I actually kinda like her, but I'm afraid she's unelectable - a ticking bomb that's timed to go off in our faces come the next election.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

31. She (and her husband) had me

for the longest time. I sent money, defended them, talked myself hoarse in their defense.

And then it all turned out to be for naught. Her comment about the "tragic decision to have an abortion," designed to place her squarely in the embrace of the anti-choice people, made me ill.

Her husband's sucking up to GHWB and Barbara the Barbarian broke my heart. That he'd not speak out about this abomination in Iraq until now tells me, sadly, that Joe Klein's book, "Primary Colors," something I avoided until this past year, was spot on.

But, that hat trick you cited is a big obstacle, and needs to be taken down as quickly and well as possible by the real people of the Democrat party.

[leveymg]

33. You should find "Compromised" It's a badly written, poorly edited and

amateurishly printed book by Clinton's former Ark State Police bodyguard. It says that the Governor was a knowing part of the Mena Airport Iran-Contra cocaine smuggling operation. I tend to believe that is essentially accurate.

Here's my take. Bill and Hill are gifted, bright and well-intentioned, but they are tools. Their involvement in Mena, while peripheral to that of Bush Sr., put both of them into the pockets of the same very high level int'l spook-organized crime networks that have been manipulating both parties for at least half a century. Bill was groomed by Harriman, and once in the White House constrained from pushing for any real reform by their handlers, who control them to this day.

They are hardly unique. Few people in national politics haven't somehow been compromised along the way. The system is designed to do that.

[sandnsea]

23. By Dennis Hastert

I thought you were smarter than this. You are doing exactly what the Republicans had prayed for. This is EXACTLY why Hillary didn't want to put any plan forward. She knew any plan would be picked apart by Democrats and allow Republicans to focus on that instead of the failure of the Bush Iraq policy. I hate to say it, but she was right.

Don't turn this into yet another Democratic bashing session. Make it about beginning to bring the troops home in December. The majority of Democrats support that. Get on board with that and leave Hillary in the dust.