Live on CSPAN...Chickenhawks vs. Patriots

[ticapnews]

Now beginning. Before the clerk even started reading the resolution the Democrats were raising objections...

But the Rethugs shot them down...

I'll be updating this thread as the debate and vote unfold...feel free to do the same...

Chet Edwards (D-TX) asked if it would be allowed for each member to speak for five minutes, since this was about war and our soldiers. He was essentially told to sit down and shut up - the debate will be one hour and will ONLY be about this specific resolution...

Phil Gringrey (Chickenhawk-GA) talks about "besmirching" the dedication and sacrifice of the soldiers.

Louise Slaughter (D-NY) leading the debate for the Patriots, says that Murtha's proposal is sound, and scared the Republicans into such swift action to attack him.

Slaughter is laying out the case very well. "I believe they've got some 'splaining to do." That was wonderful.

Joseph Pitts (R-PA) - Opposes the resolution. "Freedom isn't free - it is expensive and bloody"

Ike Skelton (D-MO) - 4 minutes. He is recounting Murtha's war deeds. Says he "admires (Murtha's) assessment of the war." If the Iraqi military and government are not successful, Iraq will become a "snake pit" every bit as bad as the Taleban had in Afghanistan.

Barrett (R-SC) - "Don't believe all the crap you see on the TV" He has been to Iraq and continually refers to the "18, 19 and 20 year old heroes." "I will not cut and run on the people of Iraq. I will not cut and run on the soldiers fighting the battle. I will not cut and run on the United States of America. Let's talk about victory. Let's talk about freedom."

Mel Watt speaking for the unanimous Congressional Black Caucus. I think his comments are mentioned below :)

Lincoln Diaz-Balart (R-FL) suddenly concerned with the world opinion, now that it appears there is a "diminuition" of support for the war in Iraq... "Let us say we stand with the troops, and the mission of the troops, of being in Iraq until there is a stable Democratic government there."

Joe Crowley (D-NY) calling out the GOP for dividing America. It is not unpatriotic to question a war with 2100 dead and 25,000 wounded. Invokes Cindy Sheehan, John McCain and Rep. Murtha. "The GOP caucus is not unpatriotic - they are pathetic!"

Rep Ginny Brown-Waite (R-FL) Talks about an Iraqi nurse who begged her to keep the troops in Iraq... would say more, but who cares, DK is speaking now!

"Wake up America!" I type 80 words per minute, but I can't keep up with Dennis...

Going to have to get a transcript of that...

Candice Miller (R-MI) saying Iraq will evolve into anarchy and become a base for terrorists. Hello?!?!? What is it now? She just called the Democrats "nuts". I was busy typing, but I could have sword I heard her say "not in the streets of America." Is she saying it is OK over there but not here? Are the Iraqis our human shields now???

Chet Edwards is back, pointing out that if each member of Congress spoke, they would be allowed 7 seconds apiece.

Renzi (R-AZ) saying the media spun this into a Murtha vs. Hunter debate, but it shouldn't be. He is now reading quotes from Sandy Berger, Albright and the 9/11 commission. Calls Jack Murtha a "great man and a patriot." Talks about protecting "our boys and girls" in the field.

Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) "We have given the administation $450 billion...everything they have asked for..." "We did not ask the questions." "One single Iraqi battallion to show for it." "Tonight we are finally having some debate..."

Rep Joe Wilson (R-SC) - mentions 9/11 after reeling off the fact that his three sons have served, or are serving in the Armed Forces...

I think I've paused the TiVo too much, I am about three minutes behind...

Steve King (R-IA) - questions why there is a difference (15,000 vs 25,000 wounded in Iraq) ***Maybe that is because the Pentagon is not keeping accurate numbers???***

The Senate has agreed to HR 258 regarding Rosa Parks contribution to desegregation...

Judy Biggert (R-IL) - "This is about communicating to the world" our support of the soldiers and the freedom of Iraq. Since when do the GOP care what the rest of the world thinks?

Slaughter reserving her time until the end.

Oh God. Tom Tancredo. I might throw something at my TV. Five 'Police Academies' in Iraq? That's an outrage! Didn't Steve Guttenberg make seven of those movies? Where are the other two, and why aren't they available to every man, woman and child in Iraq?

Go Cheney yourself, Tom...

Walter Jones (R-NC) "If the end point cannot be explained there is no real strategy." Sides with Feingold, Murtha and Kucinich...talks about Governor Bush critizing President Clinton in '99 for not having an exit strategy or a timetable...

Gene Green (D-TX) - "Our men and women are fighting heroically, it is the civilian leadership" that is failing...

Jim Gibbons - (R-NV) our troops watch and read what we are doing in Congress. Really? They spend their downtime between getting shot at watching C-SPAN?

Slaughter reserving her time, three speakers left.

Ron Lewis (R-KY) - Recounting the terrorist attacks on America and out allies (surprise) blames Clinton...

7 1/2 minutes for Repubs, 7 for Dems

Wayne Gilchrist (R-MD) names dead from his district. Invokes Flander's Field. Says we need to decide how to end the war, not continue the war.

George Miller (D-CA) defending Murtha. Says Murtha did this for the "security of our troops, our country and the Middle East"

[realFedUp]

1. Watching

Gingrey talking about those who would besmirch
the troops...

Now Mrs. Slaughter D-NY on.

[realFedUp]

2. Louise Slaughter talking about attacks on Murtha....nt

[patrice]

3. But they're still going to vote on the "poison pill" resolution,

not the real (Murtha) resolution, right?

[realFedUp]

4. right...this is the Republican resolution.

[ticapnews]

5. Correct. The Murtha resolution will never see the floor...

The GOP will never allow it.

[Nitrogenica]

6. Remember when these so-called Republican politicians speak..

they are talking about their OWN BASTARDIZED INTERPRETATION OF A MURTHA'S NOBLE CAUSE.

REPUBLICANS WROTE THE BILL.

To quote a fellow DU'er "We asked for water, so they spray us with a FIREHOSE".

They are using the tactics of a sadist in our Congress.

[realFedUp]

9. Mrs. Slaughter says this is Duncan Hunter's resolution

Now Mr. Pitts from Penn's on...another Vietnam vet
says he was disturbed by Murtha's comments.

[realFedUp]

7. looks like everyone took a valium or had a scotch with dinner

I know I am...:-)

I do hope that democracy wins tonight.

[Stand and Fight]

8. Rep. Louise Slaughter:

"Unlike our president, vice-president, Secretary of Defense, and many members of this House, Rep. Jack Murtha knows combat."

[realFedUp]

10. Pitts says we are Iraqi liberators...

yeah, liberated them from their antiquities,
oil, lives, electricity, water, sewers, work...

[realFedUp]

11. I wonder if Republicans will go through with this vote...

I wonder how many Congresscritters are still
in the Capitol?

[bvar22]

12. The opponents circle slowly,

testing defenses with head feints and soft jabs.

[realFedUp]

13. I just hope it doesn't come to blows....

maybe the House floor would get more people
watching if they had mud wrestling....

[realFedUp]

14. Barrett says don't believe all the crap you hear on tv...

who is this guy?

[realFedUp]

16. Gresham Barrett...a fundie

gads.

[bvar22]

15. The Republicans are trying desperately to make this

about the TROOPS.

The Dems need to counter that this debate is about the LYING administration and a FAILED Strategy in Iraq...NOT the TROOPS!

[ticapnews]

20. The soldiers are being killed because of the failed strategy in Iraq...

It should be about both the soldiers and the people of Iraq. Pulling the soldiers out helps both...

[gratuitous]

17. Gresham Barrett sure is brave in DC

I wonder where the son he mentioned is serving? Or does Sonny Boy Barrett have other priorities when his daddy is sending other people's kids over to Iraq to kill and die?

[realFedUp]

22. hiya grat....

good to see you. I think he just mentioned
his son as being about the same age as troops...

[ticapnews]

23. I think his son is 16...

didn't he say the soldiers he met were a couple years older than his son? I can only assume Sonny is signing up as soon as he turns 18...

[realFedUp]

18. Congressional Black Caucus speaks

via Mel Watt...

Yeah, CBC stands for me.

[bvar22]

19. Mel Watts speaking FOR the entire CBC position!

Truth to Power.

[realFedUp]

21. The CBC speaks for me.....nt

[gratuitous]

29. The ENTIRE CBC?

Even the Republican members of the Congressional Black Caucus?

{Giggle}

[realFedUp]

24. 42 voting en block against this resolution....nt

[bvar22]

25. Watts and the CBC land a hard blow to the lying jaw of Republicans.

Forcefull , succint, and with passion.
Withdraw
redeploy
NO permanent Bases!
Present Plan to Congress for Withdrawal

caveat: Sufficiently Train the Iraqis

[realFedUp]

26. Joe Crowley on now....

saying this is political. It isn't unpatriotic to
question this war...

[realFedUp]

27. I bet my Congressman won't speak....

he doesn't put himself into controversy...

[bvar22]

28. Recommending so more DUers can witness this:

kick

[realFedUp]

30. Ginny Browne-Wait

says this is about supporting our troops.

Yeah, like you do when you cut the Vet funding
or armor for them...troops are just convenient
when these people need to pass their legislation.

[realFedUp]

31. Kucinich calls this a fraud...says Duncan Hunter will vote against it.

Yeaahhhhhhhh DK!

[bvar22]

35. Love DKucinich

HOT! He got some cheers from somewhere!

[catabryna]

52. It was a beautiful thing!

Gawd, I love that guy!

[ralps]

70. Dennis Kucinich's speech is at canofun.com now

http://www.canofun.com/blog/viddate.asp
:hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[rucky]

122. that is one hellova website! thanks! n/t

[rockymountaindem]

32. It seems like all the Republicans have is personal anecdotes

Meanwhile Kucinich is tearing 'em a new one... not that it'll make the papers.

[Hello_Kitty]

50. I totally don't believe the woman from FL (I think?)

Who claimed that some Iraqi woman in the hospital begged the troops not to leave. Puh-leeze :eyes:

[RadiDem]

33. Kooch is ON FIRE ! blasting away!

YEEEEEAH

[realFedUp]

34. DK yelling....we won't let them swiftboat Murtha like they did to Kerry

yeah.

[Moochy]

39. He rocked the mic!

:patriot: :kick: and recommending for others to see the democrats in action!

[realFedUp]

36. gads, I dislike Republican women....nt

[Hello_Kitty]

37. I love you Dennis Kucinich!!!

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

[bvar22]

38. needs more recommends:

:kick:

[realFedUp]

41. just did...nt

[bvar22]

40. Republicans have nothing new.

Same old worn out lies!

[realFedUp]

42. wearing very thin....

like the armor protecting the troops.

[bvar22]

43. Republican Renzi

"My father served"

BUT YOUR Yellow ASS didn't!!!!!

[Hello_Kitty]

46. And then he opened his big fat dumb mouth

I am momentarily ashamed to be an Arizonan...:blush:

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

108. Arizona is embarrassed by Renzi, who received from DeLay

30,000 dirty dollars, the most of any AZ congressman.

http://houseofscandal.org/members/RichardRenziAZ-1.html

J.D. Hayworth is next I think.

[realFedUp]

44. good steno ticapnews!

didn't see you editing up there...

[ticapnews]

48. It's easier to get quotes on Slaughter than on Kucinich...

he talks too fast for me. :)

[realFedUp]

53. yeeeeaaahhhhhhhhh. nt

[realFedUp]

45. Rahm's up to bat

present course is not succeeding....is what
everyone has in common...

[realFedUp]

47. Rahm said Congress can be faulted for not asking enough questions

and appropriated without asking.

[realFedUp]

49. yeah, yeah....where do you stand now Rahm? nt

[realFedUp]

51. his time expired before he could say....how convenient. nt

[Pryderi]

54. Good quote from another forum: "They should basically march in and

introduce a resolution declaring the president is doing "a heckuva job," allow no amendments, and force the GOP Congressmen to vote on that."

[bvar22]

55. Rahm Emanuel (Yawn).

*

[realFedUp]

56. 11 minutes left for Mrs. Slaughter and the Dems...more for Pubs

[realFedUp]

57. Steve King, R-Iowa says what about Afghanistan?

gee Steve, maybe it's because we're fucking up
there also but the Bush admin. doesn't want
to tell Americans that.

[realFedUp]

58. Judy Biggert....R from Illinois

bet she didn't pay much attention to Iraqi
women before this illegal invasion...

Republican women can't be this stupid can they?

[Acryliccalico]

61. Republican women ARE that STUPID!!!

:kick:

[realFedUp]

64. lol...welcome to the conversation...nt

[Acryliccalico]

85. Usually just checking out how we are doing

don't really blog a lot but have been here for 2 years. Just had to add a comment because some people are stupid but others are really stupid. Republican women are really stupid. :) :kick:

[bvar22]

59. Some Democrat need to directly attack...

...the glowing fantasy of the "Glorius Free Iraq" that the Republicans are fabricating.

[realFedUp]

62. These people don't give a crap about Iraq or its people

just oil, empire, endless money and position
to defend Israel.

[realFedUp]

60. The backroom boys are working overtime tonight....

and we get the good news from Iraq....
unfiltered.

[Moochy]

63. Walter Jones(r)

Walter Jones: We shouldnt be having this debate now. after the recess.

Me: It's the principles right? The principle of not missing vacation.

[ticapnews]

68. He wants a real debate...

not this sham debate. This is a farce.

[realFedUp]

65. This debate is almost over.....nt

[realFedUp]

66. Republicans don't want to withdraw period...this is a fraud.

Next week is a good time to talk to your
republican representative in person.

[Wetzelbill]

72. it's just a ploy they want to embarrass Dems

it was brought to the floor as a skeleton plan. It's just to get Dems on record voting against a "Murtha-Like" plan. It is a stunt. Really chickenshit.

[realFedUp]

75. I'm sorry I didn't get to read Mr. Ignored.....nt

[Wetzelbill]

67. Walter Jones was good

Really good. He got a nice reception. Trying to get Bush to be accountable and come up with a plan.

[realFedUp]

69. Gene Green, D-Texas

says Murtha's earned the right to propose his
resolution without attacks from other side.

[realFedUp]

71. R- Jim Gibbons says the troops hear and see what Congress does

yeah, even those cuts Republicans are making
to them, to their families and the country.

[realFedUp]

73. Another repub asks how do you withdraw from terra?

maybe by telling the truth, acting diplomatically
and with real compassion and understanding.

[realFedUp]

74. 7 minutes left on either side....Lois Slaughter still reserves their time

[realFedUp]

76. Californian George Miller on....

this should be good.

[realFedUp]

77. Said Murtha wanted a debate to go on in Congress re: Iraq

Miller said character assassination didn't happen
before inside the House...said this was a gift...
to hit bottom.

[realFedUp]

78. Wow....speaking over the gavel

yielded by a Republican.

[realFedUp]

79. Rohrbacker bringing up Reagan....oy.

[ticapnews]

80. Can't edit anymore

starting over... :)

George Miller was awesome.

Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) slamming Dems for making it personal.

Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-MD) A serious proposal has been made by a senior member of this body...a proposal that raises important and legitimate questions" about the course of action in Iraq. "This resolution is beneath the dignity of this institution."

A very well thought out and reasoned response. It will never get played on any news show...

Louie Gohmert (Chickenhawk-TX) attacking Nancy Pelosi and San Francisco now, for the vote to ban recruiters from schools...

Tom Osborne (R-Cornhuskers) talking about coaching football. Worried about the lack of discourse in the debate. "We can do better. We are better than this."

[realFedUp]

82. Hoyer is a calm and rational voice

nice to see real statesmen among swine.

[realFedUp]

81. Duncan Hunter doesn't even support his own resolution...

get a clue Republicans. This doesn't help you at all.

[realFedUp]

83. Louise Slaughter has one minute left of debate...nt

[realFedUp]

84. geez, who is this guy....wave the flag, cut the Vet benefits

hypocrites.

[ticapnews]

86. Jack Kingston (Chickenhawk-GA)

Blames the media for bringing down the morale of the troops.

[realFedUp]

87. R-Fortenberry...nt

[realFedUp]

88. Nancy Pelosi up now.....nt

[realFedUp]

89. Says Republicans have stooped to a new low...even for them.

Amen sister.

Deception, a political stunt and should be rejected
by this House.
Deservice to troops. Insult to Jack Murtha.

[realFedUp]

91. talks about Murtha.....nt

[ticapnews]

90. Jeff Fortenberry (R-NV)

reciting the names of soldiers who have died.

I wonder if these people realize that we can stay in Iraq until the end of time, and it won't bring them back..

[realFedUp]

93. and that there will just be more deaths.....nt

[ticapnews]

92. Nancy Pelosi

"The Republican deception today is a disgrace"
While the Democrats applaud the clock ticks...

"Republican attack on Murtha is dishonest."

"You can't handle the truth" "Why are Republicans afraid of the facts?"

Let us join Murtha in saluting the soldiers and their service and their loyalty... (couldn't get the exact quote...the applause was distracting :) )

[realFedUp]

94. yeah, I was just thinking about those lost minutes...she did well tho.

[realFedUp]

95. No one is denigrating the troop's mission...Republicans lie

while they cut the benefits to their families.

[realFedUp]

96. 15 minute vote now....nt

[ticapnews]

97. Gingrey closing up now...

what a dramatic difference between Pelosi, Hoyer and Osborne and this Gingrey character. He loves the sound of his own voice....

[realFedUp]

101. I gotta go, but have a feeling I know the outcome of this one

it'll be interesting to see and hear the spin
points on Sunday on this.

Hope facts, not fiction come out.

[realFedUp]

98. This will be interesting....both Dems and Pubs will vote no

[realFedUp]

99. Repeat of that freeper Erin Billings on cspan...nt

[ticapnews]

100. Important note about this vote:

This is not on the Duncan Hunter resolution itself. This is about whether they will vote on the resolution. The Democrats and a handful of Republicans will vote against this resolution, the vast majority of Republicans will support this because they want to force Democrats to vote on the issue.

[ralps]

103. I think that vote happened this afternoon. This vote is on the

resolution itself. :hi: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :woohoo:

[Doremus]

102. Can someone please translate?

It looks like the repugs are voting YES for removing troops immediately, and Dems are voting no.

?????

[ticapnews]

104. This vote is procedural...

They voted this afternoon on suspending the rules, allowing a vote on a resolution that was proposed the same day. The GOP strong-armed that one through (although when time expired C-SPAN showed them losing) and now they are having a vote on whether or not to vote on the Duncan Hunter resolution. The GOP are voting for this because they want to force the Democrats to vote on Hunter's poorly worded and shoddily-planned resolution.

The easiest way to think about it is as a filibuster - except debate isn't limitless and the GOP only needs a 1-vote majority to prevail. The Democrats want to have a real debate on this issue. They asked that each member of the House be given five minutes to address the serious matter at hand, but the GOP shot them down. If the Democrats (and handful of Republicans) win this vote that is winding down, there will be no vote on the Hunter resolution. If there is a vote on the Hunter resolution, the Dems are stuck....

edit to add: The term is "motion to reconsider" whereas in the Senate it is "cloture."

[Doremus]

105. Thank you, ticapnews!

I arrived late and couldn't make heads or tails of it.

[ticapnews]

106. The vote will be the same as it was this afternoon...

Looks like the Democrats are united, there are seven Republicans (and Bernie Sanders) standing with them, and the rest of the GOP is in line.

Actually, one GOP just switched his/her vote to Yea...

Clock has expired. votes are 195 for, 200 against, 39 NV.

But we all know the clock is meaningless in these votes...

[ticapnews]

107. This is the part of C-SPAN that is unwatchable for me...

Get rid of the freeper phone calls. If C-SPAN can't find rational people to call in, just have more talking heads on to spin things. At least the spinners can usually make coherent speech...

[angryxyouth]

109. Truth = Rhetorric ????

Read the news!!!
I hate stupid People.

[ticapnews]

110. They held the vote open just long enough to win...

again. This is as predictable as a terror warning after bad poll numbers for President Bush...

[angryxyouth]

111. Sorry about the extra R

[ticapnews]

112. Thanks to everyone for tuning in...

to tonight's episode of "Patriots and Chickenhawks." Sadly, I must leave and take care of some errands.

Tune in next time when you hear George W. Bush say, "I resign the office of the presidency, effective at noon tomorrow."

Good night and good luck.

edit: I think I'll stick around to hear Mr. Murtha. What a speaker.

[AuntiBush]

113. It's Just Gearing-up!

So's the :popcorn:

[Doremus]

114. Now that the Repugs have painted us into a corner,

is there any alternative but to call their bluff and vote in favor of the bill?

If not, aren't we handing them next year's smear ads on a platter? I'm sorry, but I do not look forward to more confusing, long-winded explanations "we voted no, but not really ...."

All Joe Sixpack is going to hear is waffling -- AGAIN.

Aren't they?

[ticapnews]

115. I think the Democratic leadership has a plan...

I don't know what it is, but I believe Nancy Pelosi and her lieutenants have a way out. Whether it will be voting "present" or not voting at all, I don't know. But I fully expect all Democrats to vote the same way on this measure. The attack on Murtha made it personal and united Democrats - even those who disagree with him. I believe they will vote as one. I just don't know how they're planning to do that.

[Doremus]

120. I had thought of that, but wouldn't that still

be handing them ample ammunition to paint Dems as spineless, weak, etc., etc.?

I can see their ad copy now and it's so deja vu ....

[ticapnews]

121. That's why this is a key moment for Nancy Pelosi...

Whatever they do, they HAVE to be united on this. If the Republicans successfully divide the Congressional Democrats it will set us back tremendously.

[Doremus]

123. It's do or die time for the Dems.

I wish they'd all vote in favor. Much easier to defend from a clear position than a muddled mess.

[AuntiBush]

116. Jack Murtha a "great man and a patriot."

He sure is. His courage, and raw-guts to call all of it like it is has all of them in an uproar. Go, Murtha!

And for Barrett (R-SC)saying: "I will not cut and run on the soldiers fighting the battle. I will not cut and run on the United States of America. Let's talk about victory. Let's talk about freedom."

How about talking about all the $$$$$$$$ Halliburton/Cheney/Chimp and Repuks are making; or the robbing of our Treasury!?!

Barrett & her side of the isle sure don't mind the cut & run of our freedoms, and money!

MURTHA IS UP & TALKING!

[ticapnews]

117. The gravestones in Arlington don't say "Democrat" or "Republican"

They say "American"

[Gemini Cat]

119. That's right! nt

[ticapnews]

118. What demoralizes the troops...

(paraphrasing)
Going to war without the troops and supplies to transfer to peace.
IED's.
Being deployed when their homes are destroyed by hurricanes....

[Neil Lisst]

124. If we cut and run, the rest of Southeast Asia will fall like dominoes.

Deja Friggin Vu

[ticapnews]

125. You mean Southwest Asia, right?

:sarcasm:

[ticapnews]

126. Murtha reading letters from soldiers and their families...

"We believe the best way to support the troops is a well-thought out foreign policy" not "Stay the course"

[ticapnews]

127. Steve Buyer (R-IN)

Went to Normandy with his 20-year-old son for Memorial Day.

And in which service is young Mr. Buyer enlisted?

[ticapnews]

128. "That's a matter for debate"

:wtf:

Jackass.

[Awsi Dooger]

129. I'm sorry, but I'm not enduring JD Hayworth

Torture has its limits and pig boy is my thresh hold. Click.

[ticapnews]

130. We must fight them over there and not over here

Iraqis are our human shields.

[Doremus]

131. Well, the Dems are voting no.

At least they clarified that they're voting on the Hunter resolution.

I can still hear the attack ads next year.

[ticapnews]

132. And once again the Democrats get outmaneuvered by the Republicans...

vote is 291-3 so far. And Duncan Slimeball asked for a recorded vote, so all the Democrats had to vote on the record. Predictable.

Depressing.

I should have gone to watch Harry Potter after all..

[flpoljunkie]

133. This will be seen by all as the cheap political stunt it is. Murtha didn't

call for immediate withdrawl--but a phase redeployment over six month to Kuwait, and the setting up a quick reaction force.

It will be noted that the Republicans refused to let Murtha's resolution come up for a vote, altho what Murtha asked for was committee hearings, not this dog and pony show.

This will come back to back them in the ass. The American people are waking up and the Republicans are running scared.

[ticapnews]

136. I hope you are right about the people waking up

because the GOP isn't running scared. They were not afraid tonight, and national security remains the one Ace they have left in the deck. Regardless of what polls say about Iraq, people are still scared (that's why we have to fight the terrorists there rather than waiting for them to come here) and the GOP can play on that fear. Unless and until Americans do wake up, we're in a bad situation.

[ruggerson]

135. No, they're doing exactly the right thing

The Resolution is a fraudulent, bogus resolution. You do not participate in political fraud by taking it seriously and voting "yes."

You either vote "present" or "no."

You don't condone fraudulent stunts.

[ticapnews]

137. We should have voted "Present"

Now the GOP has every Democrat (but three, apparently) on record as supporting "staying the course" in Iraq and not withdrawing the troops. We may know the story behind the scenes, but the average voter isn't going to. They're just going to think we are a bunch of hypocrites:

Voter: "You voted for the war"
Dem Congressman: "Well, the president lied to us. We didn't have the same..." (yawn)
Voter: "You voted to keep the soldiers in Iraq."
Dem Congressman: "That wasn't a real vote, it was a political trick by the GOP..." (yawn)
Voter: "So if I had elected a Republican, he would have voted the exact same way you would have?"
Dem Congressman: "..."

[ticapnews]

134. Nancy Pelosi has to immediately call for consideration of...

Murtha's resolution as soon as the vote is concluded. She needs to make it abudantly clear that the Democrats voted against Hunter's resolution because they wanted to vote on the Murtha resolution. She must demand that the House agree to schedule debate on the Murtha resolution as soon as the House reconvenes after the holiday.