To those who say "stay and die" I say "why"?

[Warren Stupidity]

After watching the late night farce in Congress, wherein a Republican proposal to depart Iraq immediately was attacked by Republicans as the work of 'cut and run' Democrats, where a rumpled but eloquent old marine said what we all know to be true: that this war is bullshit and we need to get out, it is clear that everything has changed.

We now have two factions: the stay and die faction, who offer no hope but more of the same, and the cut and run faction, who are gently, or not so gently, trying to get the other side to face up to reality. And that is the problem: one side is delusional and the other isn't. As we all here have noted so many times over the past years of cascading horror: the reality based community is not currently in power.

I have three teenage sons, actually one is no longer strictly a teenager. I cannot fathom the depths of grief and despair that the families of the nearly 2100 dead, of the nearly 16,000 seriously wounded must be suffering. I have some insight from the maniacal determination of Saint Cindy of the Ditch to get her question answered about her son Casey. I hear an echo from a young John Kerry, an echo from my own fading youth, a faint echo asking "How can you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?".

To the stay and die faction I simply ask "why"? What are we dying for? What noble cause does this serve? Why are we killing Iraqis every day? What have they done to us to deserve what we are doing to them? I ask this every day and I am losing patience. There is no response other than venom and hatred and more lies on top of the tower of lies they have built.

[TomClash]

1. No one said it better than John Kerry over three decades ago

"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Kicked and Nominated n/t

[Zen]

3. Republicans think war is noble and character building.

I think republicans are chicken-hawks who like to live in a fantasy world. I'm thinking of bringing back the "baby killer" expression from the 70's. I'm sick of these war criminal murderers. Just because the US has power, doesn't mean we are obligated to use it. It's the first rule of "walk quietly and carry a big stick". The Republicans are too ignorant to understand what character and honor are all about.

[existentialist]

4. ("One, Two, Three, Four

What are we fighting for?

. . .
"Ain't got no time to wonder why
"Yahoo, we're all gonna die, and it's
"Five, Six, Seven, Eight
"Open up the pearly gate.")

[Clark2008]

5. Acutally, we have three factions: the stay and die,

the cut and run AND those like Murtha, Gen. Clark and others who think we should be laying a well-thought-out plan of pull-out to last the course of some period of time, set by brenchmarks instead of dates, so that the Iraqi people aren't laid mercy to the terrorists and to protect future generations of westerners from the terrorists who will surely take over what's left of the Iraqi government.

Murtha isn't for an immediate pull-out, but a redeployment: a back-off to the borders to prod the Iraqi's into taking care of themselves. Clark is for a cordinated pull-out of American troops to be replaced by the UN over a benchmarked period of time.

However, both men have stated that if Bush doesn't soon make a decision to plan a long-term pullout, then the American people are justified in demanding an immediate pullout - and we're quickly heading upon that time.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. I am accepting their labelling of us as 'cut and run'

for rhetorical purposes. It allows me to label them as 'stay and die' although in fairness that is not how they would describe themselves.

[Clark2008]

10. Ahhh... I see.

Accept my apologies for misunderstanding what you were doing.

I do agree that calling them the "stay and die" faction is good spin. :)

[AZBlue]

12. I'm right there with you Clark2008 - I was going to ask who said we should

"stay and die" but now I get it. And, I like it!! That is a good label - nice and short, so the MSM can handle it easily (don't want to confuse their little brains).

[Arkana]

7. Because, uh...because we have to honor their sacrifice

by killing more troops! And then we have to honor those troops by killing more troops!

In all seriousness, I agree completely. The best way to honor the troops? Stop the killing and get them out of Iraq.

[welshTerrier2]

8. and it's 1-2-3 what are we fighting for?

the momentum against the war is now a tidal wave ...

the only defense now is that we can't just cut and run like we did during Vietnam because that wouldn't be manly ...

manly ... how many have died for that in our nation's history ???

RECOMMENDED.

[keta11]

9. From the very beginning when Dumbya began making

noises about Poland/Iraq threatening us, I knew the Republicans were going to use 9-11, jingoism and war to perpetuate their 1000 year reich.

A smart opposition party would have rallied to put the kibbosh on this (notice the Repugs win on nationalism all the time). Instead we saw our leaders with their flag lapels lining up to lick Dumbya's balls and making inane WMD speeches on TV.

They should argued against this war.

[opihimoimoi]

11. I agree...they shoulda coulda woulda but didn't

Shame on the Dems...

Double Shame on the Pubs for not changing their position even after 3 years and a review of the EVIDENCE....see Johm Murthas Statement re pulling out and reason for voting for the War 3 years ago.

Triple Shame on Americans who are letting this Run A Way Effect last this long without voicing Opposition.

Bush Poll #s should be in the Teens by now.