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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:12 AM
Original message
General William E. Odom: What’s wrong with cutting and running?



What’s wrong with cutting and running?

August 03, 2005

Everything that opponents of a pullout say would happen if the U.S. left Iraq is happening already, says retired Gen. William E. Odom, the head of the National Security Agency during the Reagan administration. So why stay?

By William E. Odom

If I were a journalist, I would list all the arguments that you hear against pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq, the horrible things that people say would happen, and then ask: Aren’t they happening already? Would a pullout really make things worse? Maybe it would make things better.

Here are some of the arguments against pulling out:

1) We would leave behind a civil war.

2) We would lose credibility on the world stage.

3) It would embolden the insurgency and cripple the move toward democracy.

4) Iraq would become a haven for terrorists.

5) Iranian influence in Iraq would increase.

6) Unrest might spread in the region and/or draw in Iraq's neighbors.

7) Shiite-Sunni clashes would worsen.

8) We haven’t fully trained the Iraqi military and police forces yet.

9) Talk of deadlines would undercut the morale of our troops.

But consider this:

snip/more

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=129


Follow-up article


Odom: Want stability in the Middle East? Get out of Iraq!

COMMENTARY | November 11, 2005

In his last piece for NiemanWatchdog.org, retired Gen. William Odom argued that all the terrible things the Bush administration says would happen if we pulled our troops out of Iraq are happening already. In a new postscript, Odom writes that the converse is true as well: Bush says he wants to bring democracy and stability to the greater Middle East -- but in fact the only way to achieve that goal is to get out of Iraq now.

By William E. Odom

snip

Withdrawal is the Precondition to Progress

Once we recognize these two realities, it becomes clear that U.S. withdrawal from Iraq is the precondition to winning the support of our allies and a few others for a joint approach to the region. Until that has been completed, they will not join such a coalition. And until that has happened, even we in the United States cannot think clearly about what constitutes our interests there, much let gain agreement about common interests for a coalition.

By contrast, any argument for "staying course," or seeking more stability before we withdraw -- or pointing out tragic consequences that withdrawal will cause -- is bound to be wrong, or at least unpersuasive. Putting it bluntly, those who insist on staying in Iraq longer make the consequences of withdrawal more terrible and make it harder to find an alternative strategy for achieving regional stability.

Once the invasion began in March 2003, all of the ensuing unhappy results became inevitable. The invasion of Iraq may well turn out to be the greatest strategic disaster in American history. In any event, the longer we stay, the worse it will be. Until that is understood, we will make no progress with our allies or in devising a promising alternative strategy.

"Staying the course" may make a good sound bite, but it can be disastrous for strategy. Several of Hitler's generals told him that "staying the course" at Stalingrad in 1942 was a strategic mistake, that he should allow the Sixth Army to be withdrawn, saving it to fight defensive actions on reduced frontage against the growing Red Army. He refused, lost the Sixth Army entirely, and left his commanders with fewer forces to defend a wider front. Thus he made the subsequent Soviet offensives westward easier.

snip/more

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=background.view&backgroundid=63




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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Most of those things have already happened
If it's a civil war, that's precisely what it is--theirs, not ours, an internal problem that we can't solve because we are not supposed to stay in the country forever.

And the rest of them are either going on now or couldn't be prevented.

I say get out, it's the same difference and we shouldn't have been there to begin with.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. They're mostly fighting us though so US getting out would be the best move
WE are the invaders. WE are the bad guys. We have to accept that. We were not invited. We were not asked to come and blow up their families, friends and homes.

This fantasy that we are doing good there is pure BS.
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KarenS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. ThankYou for posting this!! I just emailed it to about 50 people,,,
:)
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I saw a clip about it on the McLaughlin Report.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. kicked and nominated
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. kept thinking that
how are the Iraqi's better off if we stay? And when they kept saying the country would turn into a nightmare, well isn't it already one? Good to hear a Gen. say this, to have him debate the facts point by point. Recommending.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. It would piss off DLCers like Franken
He's said all along that we shouldn't "cut and run". Just as if he knows what he's talking about.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Franken's pretty sure of himself because he's been there
But, yeah, they served up a LOT of kool aid while he was on tour with the uSO.

Because if we don't CALL it "cutting and running" but rather "Rapid phased withdrawal"

We save a lot of lives, Al.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. "Most of those in Congress" did NOT vote for the war; he's flat-out wrong
When talking about the Democrats in Congress, he's completely incorrect. Slightly more than half of the Democratic Senators voted for the IWR (which is not "voting for the war", lest we forget) and two-thirds of the Democrats in House voted against it. Add the two groups together, and considerably more than half of the Democrats in Congress voted against the damned thing.

The history of that con-job is bad enough, but to continually trash our leaders and representatives more than they deserve is destructive to us all. Sheesh.
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Oh, God, I love the smell of brutal common sense in the morning
Wow, that is bracing stuff! Whew! I'm fully awake now, I'll tell ya.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here are some other "old sayings" on the topic.
Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

Don't throw good money after bad.

When you're in a hole, stop digging.

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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Cutting and Running is the only option.
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 04:12 PM by Tom Joad
We should abandon to the scrap heap any politician who wants "phased withdrawal" from Iraq.

When your nation invades a sovereign state, and proceeds to kill its inhabitants (including civilians, but also those exercising their right to armed self-defense against invaders) then we must urge our nation to "cut and run".
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Staying the course when you are in a stalemate (quagmire)
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 04:45 PM by alfredo
makes no sense. It sure isn't a strategy to assure victory.
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. General Odom knows his stuff.
Must reads.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent article
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. kick
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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great post!
A point I make to people who still think invading Iraq was a good idea: Even if it was a good idea (which it wasn't), BushCo has horribly mis-managed the whole endeavor. Folks, it's FUBAR! I don't think it possible to fix the mess.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Have a look at this clip.
McLaughlin Report: VIDEO-Points from Lt Gen William Odom about leaving Iraq

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5412606

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. This is a patriot
:patriot:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. Link to transcript: Odom on JL NewsHour 11-21-05
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