"Holiday Tree Lighting"

[AUYellowDog]

Auburn University lit its "Holiday Tree" last night and this has caused an uproar amongst the conservatives on campus. For two examples of their lunatic logic, see these two links:

http://www.theplainsman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/12/01/438e7323a3194

and

http://www.theplainsman.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/12/01/438e8f0b6c403

They need lives. Anyway, a bill is being introduced into the SGA Senate by the Chairwoman of the College Republicans to change the official name back to the "Christmas Tree". I'm going to go oppose her, on several grounds, but I would like a few back up arguments as well. What grounds would you use to defend the politically correct "Holiday Tree". Don't forget, they think that Ramadan and Hannukah aren't real holidays, and they think the tree didn't come from Pagan winter solstice rituals. Hell, they even think Jesus was really born on December 25th. So, what do you think? Your help is greatly appreciated.

Brandon

[havocmom]

1. Heaven forbid they get their knickers in a twist about a REAL travesty

like calling the illegal and unwarranted invasion of Iraq a War On Terr-ism. That shit is OK with their Christain life styles?

[Pirate Smile]

2. I wouldn't defend "Holiday Tree". I think it is silly. It is a Christmas

tree and everybody knows it.

I like "Happy Holidays" because there are multiple holidays at this time of year. It is polite and tolerant. I think the "you must say Merry Christmas or you hate the baby Jesus" crap is idiotic

BUT

I think this "Holiday Tree" stuff is rather ridiculous.

Just my opinion.

[VaYallaDawg]

3. I'm with you Pirate - they're just looking for something

to be "victimized by the left" about.

[teenagebambam]

4. I agree

Whatever its pagan origins, in America a decorated pine tree has come to be associated with Christmas and that's that. You wouldn't call it a "holiday menorrah" or "holiday sunrise-to-sunset fast".

SAYING "Happy Holidays" as opposed to "Merry Christmas" as you say, is a different matter and makes sense.

[kay1864]

6. Moi aussi

I'm an atheist, but I have a Christmas tree (no angel up top though }( ), and I give presents. I'm fine with "Happy Holidays" OR "Merry Christmas".

Sheesh, it's all about commercialism and gifts anyway :+

What are merchants going to call the big sales on Dec 26th? After Holiday Sales? Yeah, that'll really bring in the people celebrating Hannukah <snort>

Plus if I called it a Holiday Tree I'd be following in the FauxNews Store tradition (pre-correction), and we can't have that...

[meow2u3]

14. Contrary to popular belief...

This whole Christmas vs. holiday war has nothing to do with liberals and everything to do with corporate values.

Corporate forces want Americans to think liberals have no religious convictions and those of us on DU who buy into this war have fallen for corporate trickery. It goes without saying that those who try to paint liberals as anti-Christian are die-hard conservatives.

[Mad_Dem_X]

22. Agree 100%

It's a symbol of the Christmas holiday, hence it is a Christmas tree.

[onenote]

5. Let them have their Christmas tree, but demand

that they also put up a menorah and a display for Kwanzaa...

A Christmas Tree is a Christmas Tree. I have no problem with it being called that. I wouldn't want a Menorah to be called a "holiday candleabra". But if the school is going to acknowledge one faith's holiday, they should celebrate other holidays of the season as well.

onenote

[kay1864]

7. "holiday candleabra" LOL!

::vision of a Jewish Liberace's piano::

[yellowcanine]

11. Apples and oranges. A menorah is a religious symbol. A Christmas

tree is a pagan symbol that has been coopted by Christians. The Christmas equivalent of the menorah is probably a creche.

[onenote]

12. they have both become symbols of their respective holidays

The tree started off as a pagan symbol that has morphed into a symbol of Christmas that is used as part of the observance of the non-religious part of the holiday (i.e. the giving of presents). The menorah is central to the ritual observance of Hanukah (which is not a particularly religious holiday in the sense that it is not celebrated with a special service in Synagogues or temples), but has also become a symbol of the holiday (appearing, like Christmas trees, on holiday cards, wrapping paper, etc). It is this symbolic aspect that, IMHO, makes the comparison appropriate.

onenote

[realFedUp]

8. Christ had nothing to do with a tree

All this is ridiculous chat fodder to put money
in the coffers of the so-called Christian snake oil
salesmen and their organizations to pad their own
Christmas stockings...who and which Christ had nothing to
do with either.

A little history on the tree:
It is from Germany that we today get many of our customs, songs, images of Santa, pine trees and European hand blow glass ornaments.

How these traditions traveled to England is interesting. Queen Victoria often visited relatives in Germany in the town of Coburg and while there she fell in love with a young Prince Albert. After they got married they returned to England to raise their family.

The tree that Price Albert provided his family was admired by all in England. This tree was decorated in the finest of hand blown glass ornaments. Since everyone liked the Queen they copied her Christmas customs including the Christmas tree and ornaments.

[realFedUp]

9. and regarding the DC Christmas tree....

from Ward Harkavy:

Capital idea: The national Xmas tree gets lit up yesterday, draped with a shroud that looks suspiciously like the ones used at Abu Ghraib.

Joy to the world — not in Iraq, but in Washington, D.C. Yesterday, as the Pentagon announced the deaths of three more U.S. soldiers, George W. Bush presided over the "Pageant of Peace," at which he and Laura lit the national Xmas tree on the Ellipse.

continued
http://villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/002120.php

[yellowcanine]

10. Some Christians are opposed to Christmas trees on religious grounds

because it is a pagan custom (tree worship, etc). On the other hand, Christianity does not REQUIRE a Christmas tree - it is not a Christian custom. Therefore you can argue that for historical accuracy's sake (and this is a university, after all, so we should be concerned with historical accuracy) the tree should be named a Winter Solstice Tree. I suspect the right wingers will quite quickly back off.

[onenote]

15. true enough but who cares?

The folks who think that the tree should be called a Christmas aren't going to "back off" simply because the ancient roots of the tree custom are pointed out. Whatever it may have been, in today's world, its a Christmas Tree. People who celebrate Christmas put them up. It may be the only thing they do to celebrate Christmas (i.e, they may not go to church or engage in any religious observances relating to the holiday). But they aren't putting it up to celebrate the Winter Solstice, or to celebrate Hanukah, or any other holiday of the season. And while I've known some Jewish families that put up a tree, they do either because they've decided to celebrate a secular Christmas or to have their own "Hanukah Bush" tradition. But they don't generally do it as celebration of the Winter Solstice either. If the school is putting up a tree to symbolize Christmas, its a Christmas tree. To me the issue isn't whether the tree should be called a Christmas tree, its whether symbols of other winter holiday observances should also be displayed. Maybe there should be two trees, a Christmas tree for those who celebrate Christmas, and a Winter Solstice tree for those who celebrate WInter Solstice.

onenote

[quaoar]

13. Don't argue that Christmas had pagan origins

That will just piss them off.

And don't argue about separation of church and state. They won't listen to that either. And don't even mention that Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25. Don't bring in Kwanzaa or Ramadan or Hanukkah.

Unless, of course, your goal is not so much to keep the Holiday Tree name but to make a point. In which case, have at it.

But if you want to put an end to the hysteria about the word holiday, then simply tell them that Happy Holidays refers not just to Christmas, but also to New Year's. Trees are traditionally left up until New Year's so they cover more than just Christmas.

And then ask them if they would like to suggest their own phrase to cover both Christmas and New Year's.

[yellowcanine]

16. self deleted

[onenote]

17. that may be so, but they don't seem to be the ones fighting about it

Whenever I read about someone objecting to some town or school's Christmas tree being called a "Christmas Tree", it seems to be coming from non-Christians, not from conservative Christians.

onenote

[yellowcanine]

19. It is a strawman. There is no liberal campaign to eliminate Christmas

trees, the saying of "Merry Christmas" of even the singing of Christmas carols by school choirs. The "Happy Holidays" and "Holiday Trees" idea was an attempt by retailers to make Christmas more appealing to people of all faiths in order to sell stuff. What better way to sell a Christmas Tree to a Jew than to call it a Holiday Tree? This "take back Christmas" campaign was started by Jerry Falwell as a way to raise money for whatever it is he is raising money for.

[onenote]

21. agreed

[onenote]

20. the pumpkins I put out before Halloween are still out

Does that make them "Holiday Vegetables" instead of symbols of Halloween? The fact that some (or even most) people leave their trees up until Christmas doesn't make the tree something other than a Christmas tree. Plenty of people who celebrate New Year's don't put up trees. Pretty much only people who celebrate Christmas put up trees. Sure some people who don't celebrate Christmas put up trees, but most of them probably still call it a Christmas tree. The fact that a few people may put up a tree and call it a "holiday" tree sort of begs the question: after all what is the "holiday" its symbolizing?

onenote

[win_in_06]

18. A Holiday Tree in Alabama? We are winning the cultural war folks!