The Hillary Clinton cartoon you've been waiting for ...

[Neil Lisst]

Anyone else sick of Hillary's Flag?

I know where I'd like to see her put it. Today's Neil Lisst political cartoon is not that graphic, but it does address the problem.

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[WindRavenX]

1. oo snap

:thumbsup:


I used to be a big time Hillary fan...

[Neil Lisst]

18. I never liked her personally, but politically, I liked her positions.

I can't stand this last play she's made. If you must, vote for the flag thing, but to speak out in favor of it? NO.

[WindRavenX]

105. exactly

This and her latest crusade against video games is nothing more that an attempt to win the moral crowd over. And it's stupid because they'd never vote for her anyway.

[Neil Lisst]

106. I didn't like it when Tipper did it, either!

PMRC ... remember?

James Baker's wife, too.

[WindRavenX]

107. that too

It's just so frustrating because I *know* she doesn't believe this shtit--she's just doing it for votes x(

[Neil Lisst]

108. That's the part that bugs me. I know she doesn't believe it.

I'm in favor of playing to the middle, but you can't be seen as simply insincerely reaching for it. No one buys that.

She would do better to use her strengths, but she's playing to her weaknesses.

[Neil Lisst]

46. I used to be a big time Hillary fan, too.

at least for her politics

now, not so much

[klebean]

2. most fitting n/t

[Neil Lisst]

19. glad you like it, klebean

it's one of the few where we target a Dem

[Writer]

3. Many on DU do not agree with you.

Count me as one.

[SaveElmer]

6. And me!

[...of J.Temperance]

7. Well I don't agree either

I hate this sort of stuff.

[Wetzelbill]

12. you know, I don't like your attitude

:)

[...of J.Temperance]

15. You get here a minute...

:spank: :spank:

:)

[Neil Lisst]

33. I'm glad you added a smilie!

:)

[Wetzelbill]

128. yeah J. Temps is my buddy

I have to raise hell with her, it's a given. :)

[Neil Lisst]

16. What sort of stuff? political cartoons, truth?

can you be more specific? Thanks.

[SamuelAlito]

66. The First Amendment

Even protects Hillary's right to make silly statements and sponsor stupid bills that have no chance of passage, and which even a right-winger like me would strike down should my bid to be on the Supreme Court succeed.

The Right Honorable Samuel A. Alito, Jr.
(the A stands for Awesome

[Neil Lisst]

75. Thanks for sharing.

Is it true the only abortion you favor is THE PATRIOT ACT?

[Neil Lisst]

22. sorry, SaveElmer, we can't agree on everything

My criticisms are specific to her presidential aspirations and her shilling right to get there.

[Wetzelbill]

9. since when have many DUers ever agreed on anything

:)

Except maybe Bush sucks and Cheney is a dick... I mean a Richard.

[Writer]

10. This is what makes us a stronger party.

As long as we strive to continue our disagreements INCORPORATING as much difference as possible!

[Wetzelbill]

11. right on

The big tent, baby. :)

[...of J.Temperance]

13. Whaddya mean...Bush sucks Cheney's dick?...WHAT'S

Jeff Gannon going to say about this eh? It's an OUTRAGE ;)

[Neil Lisst]

100. crazy...

;)

[Neil Lisst]

14. You don't agree she's wrapping herself in the flag?

Come on, even Bill would have to admit that.

[Writer]

23. I disagree with your characterization that she is "wrapping herself."

I think she is simply pointing to the flag as an important symbol. Symbolic speech, such as flag burning, never will be overturned in the Supreme Court. The precedent is too strong, and a Yale-educated lawyer such as Hillary likely understands this. Yet claiming support for the flag as a symbol is itself merely a symbolic gesture and a way we can fight back this ridiculous stereotype of liberals as being "unpatriotic."

If you look back in the history books during the post Civil War days you will see a familiar pattern. Many Republicans who fought the Democratic Southerners during the Civil War "waved the bloody shirt," claiming that Democrats were less than American. In 1876 Rutherford B. Hayes won the presidency by demeaning the patriotism of his Democratic opponent. Republicans took control of both houses of Congress and the presidency. They, effectively, took full control of the federal government for the next ten years.

I don't want to see that happen again.

[Neil Lisst]

24. You misunderstand the Hayes election.

This is not anything like the Rutherford B. Hayes election. His victory had nothing to do with flags and everything to do with DEALS to end Reconstruction. Republicans already HAD control in 1876.

Hayes won on a House vote, and the deal called for him to end Reconstruction as the payoff.

As for the flag-wrapping, Hillary is doing that, your protestations notwithstanding.

[Writer]

45. No. YOU misunderstand.

I did research on this for one of my graduate classes. "Waving the bloody shirt" has EVERYTHING to do with Rutherford B. Hayes getting into the White House. Civil War veteran Robert Green Ingersoll was the first to use this tactic to impugn Democrats during the Gilded Age. It is the SAME tactic that Republicans have used on Democrats since the Terror Attacks of 2001. (As far as Hayes going into a House vote to get into the White House - sound familiar?) You are focusing on the petty details and avoiding the larger parallels here.

Here is what Ingersoll said in support of HAYES for the 1876 presidential election:

"I am opposed to the Democratic party, and I will tell you why. Every State that seceded from the United States was a Democratic State. Every ordinance of secession that was drawn was drawn by a Democrat. Every man that endeavored to tear the old flag from the heaven that it enriches was a Democrat. Every man that tried to destroy this nation was a Democrat.

"Every man that shot Union soldiers was a Democrat. Every man that denied Union prisoners even the worm-eaten crust of famine, and when some poor, emaciated Union patriot, driven to insanity by famine, saw in an insane dream the face of his mother, and she beckoned him and he followed, hoping to press her lips once again against his fevered face, and when he stepped one step beyond the dead line the wretch that put the bullet through his loving, throbbing heart was and is a Democrat.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=ingersoll&page=civil_war

I am one of many Democrats who are tired of permitting the Republican Party to claim the American flag as their own. Hillary is trying to recapture this symbol for our use and push aside this ridiculous claim that, somehow, we are "less than American."

[Neil Lisst]

49. you're wrong

I hope that your comments here are not indicative of your work in university. Your understanding of the Hayes election is simply wrong. You're giving undue influence to one small incident, and making the mistake of clinging to that one fact as if it really mattered. It didn't.

The political dynamic following the Civil War was one which involved much more than the flag. It was about how long and to what extent the South would continue under the burden of Reconstruction.

You write as one who is captive to the last new thing he read.

[Writer]

54. It's SHE, thank you.

And I suppose YOU have worked on a graduate degree where YOU have performed similar research? Are you a historian? No? I didn't think so.

Yes, the image of the FLAG has a STRONG historical rendering that especially comes into play following times of national tragedy. The Civil War and the Terror Attacks of 2001 are cases in point. Since the Cold War, Republicans have bamboozled Americans into believing that Democrats are blue-blooded Americans. That's wrong and Hillary is trying to correct that.

[Neil Lisst]

61. Please, you're making me laugh too hard!

Do you think I'm going to float my Curriculum Vitae out here to satisfy the curiosity of a grad student who read some article and became captured by it?

You may properly conclude that I hold a doctorate from a top ten University. Your attempt to lecture me in this area is downright comical.

[Writer]

65. No. I did RESEARCH in this area.

You have not. YOU read the article and became captured by it. Shall I share the other 25 pages or so I WROTE on the historiography of American flag semiology?

And I go to a pretty damn good school myself, thank you very much.

Since this has become a nasty little flame war, I am going to say this: I think you're talented. Why aren't you confident in your own work? A few of us disagree with the content and you have shown yourself to be defensive. You have responded literally to every person in this thread. A few of us simply said that we disagreed with your cartoon. It seems that you couldn't take it. You had to get into a little online pissing contest with all of them. I took the bait because I thought it was worth arguing, and I had done some scholastic work to support that. And did it quite well, thank you very much. I would think that YOU with a DOCTORATE, would APPRECIATE that. But no.

How about you just be confident in what you produce. This will not be the first time your readers will disagree with you.

[Neil Lisst]

73. I'm responding to posts. That's what one is supposed to do.

Apparently you're confused even about that.

As for feedback, I invite all of it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to give you a pass if you write something inane, which you did. I'm not going to agree with you just because you responded, and I'm not going to ignore you, as most might. I know that bothers you, mainly because I've dismissed your little theory as lacking in substance or weight.

If you will read more and opine less, and you'll learn faster.

Class dismissed.

[Writer]

80. ... n/t

[snowbear]

109. Good post Writer!

I happen to think the cartoon sucks as well.

Freepers will likely post it on their website and praise it to no end.

Sometimes I wonder about you Neill..

[Neil Lisst]

110. Thanks for your support

I appreciate it.

[snowbear]

114. Why do anti-Democrat cartoons? Why not anti-ReTHUG cartoons?

Hells Bells.. there's all kinds of great ideas on right here at DU just waiting for you to use.

I like the one someone suggested yesterday of Bush's Christmas cards saying:

"Treasons Greetings!"

Now THAT is a cartoon!

You're in a unique position because you evidently have the ear of at least some portion of the media. Why use the opportunity to create negative impressions of Democrats? ANY Democrats.

I just don't get it.

Explain how this cartoon... and the one that suggested Democrats are anti-Christian are helping the cause?

Sorry.. If it was funny, I'd laugh.

[Neil Lisst]

119. I'm writing a political cartoon.

I'm not going to just write cartoons that comment about how bad the Bush administration is. Sure they are bad, and I love to comment about them, but they aren't the only thing going on.

If Hillary doesn't want to be the object of such cartoons, she'll have to stop being such a rightwing shill.

[snowbear]

121. So on campaign night 2006... are you rooting for Pirro?

I don't want Hillary as the '08 candidate either.. but I'd never bash her in a cartoon or any other form of public material prior to the U.S. Senate campaign!

There are no other Democrats who could ever raise the money Hillary has. So given that she is THE New York senate candidate.. the incumbent... who do you want to win the U.S. Senate seat in New York?

[Neil Lisst]

129. I want Hillary to win the Senate election.

If she loses, it won't be due to my cartoon, but to the TRUTH of my cartoon. It's on her, not me. She's doing it, I'm just talking about it. If she doesn't want to be the object of such cartoons, she needs to stop selling out.

As I've said elsewhere on this thread, this isn't about Hillary as a Senator. I've got no issues with her as a senator. She's NY's senator, so it's up to them. But she's not doing this as part of her Senator's job, but as part of her presidential aspirations, as my cartoon notes.

[anaxarchos]

70. What???!!

The southern Democrats WERE "less than American"... They seceded.

Tilden DESERVED to have his patriotism "demeaned". He was for radically dismantling Reconstruction.

Lemme get this straight.... You want to support a bunch of slavery sympathizers because they wore the right Party Label?? (And all it was was a label - any similarity between Democrats then and now, or Republicans, is purely coincidental). You want to set right the poor victimization of the slaveholders as "unpatriotic"?

This takes "party loyalty" to a whole new level.

[Writer]

71. Damn. You took my post to a whole new level.

I really don't want to start another flame war in here. Especially regarding slavery. (Just to let you know, I don't support that.)

Maybe at another time.

Sincerely,

Writer.

[tabasco]

118. I damn sure support the flag !

I also support a person's right to burn it as pure political speech.

Why can't Hillary say what I just said? Instead of "symbolic gestures", why doesn't Hil come out blazing in full support of THE BILL OF RIGHTS??

Why must she be devious? Does she think the American People are stupid enough to be fooled by her pandering?

I don't share your opinion that free speech is so strongly anchored to never be weakened. USSC history is full of reversals. The Bill of Rights is constantly being weakened and reversals by the USSC are a strong possibility as the court is packed with right-wing lackeys. The last thing we need is Democrats willing to sell the Bill of Rights as a "symbolic gesture."

IMO, rank and file Democrats and most Americans are sick of the doublespeak. Say what you mean, don't "claim" something as a "symbolic gesture." That's just another word for lies and bullshit. Hillary with her doublespeak will never be a winner for this party.

She is wrapping herself in the flag and it is disgusting.

[Neil Lisst]

120. Well said. It's FREE SPEECH, traditionally protected speech.

We are better as a nation because we can let people treat the flag as they wish.

[kenny blankenship]

4. I remember when patriotism was the last refuge of a scoundrel

now it's usually the first or second.

[Neil Lisst]

17. I'd argue it's still number one.

The president gives those speeches in front of military for a reason, and its that scoundrel refuge thing.

[Hardrada]

5. Excellent

Why doesn't she stick to something she knows about like videogames. Or military strategy.

[Neil Lisst]

20. Hillary actually knows her stuff on military issues.

But this blatant kiss up to the uberpats is ridiculous.

I am practical and I respect the fact that politicians must move towards the center. But you don't sell out.

[Hardrada]

25. So we can win in Iraq then?

[Neil Lisst]

29. I meant she understands military issues because of her ...

committee assignment and her devotion to learning military issues.

Her position on Iraq is not based upon military understanding but political expediency. She's running for president, so she's trying to get some street cred with moderates and independents.

[Wetzelbill]

8. Hillary is by and large a good woman

but damn is she ever frustrating.

[Neil Lisst]

21. I have no problem with her as a Senator or Cabinet officer

But not president. Too divisive in the party.

[Hardrada]

26. Death to the peasants of the world

comes in such charming incarnations. US OUT OF IRAQ!!

[Neil Lisst]

27. It's not any one issue that troubles me.

I think she's fine as a senator, even though I don't agree with her on the war or the flag. I think she's a mistake on the ticket, however.

[Hardrada]

28. Exactly so. Would be a mistake.

[Neil Lisst]

30. The polls at DU opened my eyes to the problem.

I've been troubled by Hillary's presidential aspirations because I think she could be so great if she would resolve to be the best senator ever. If she eschewed presidential ambitions, we'd all be better for it.

She is poison on the ticket, I'm convinced. She's hated so badly on the left and right, she's done at the presidential level.

Besides, she's still a lousy public speaker.

[rman]

64. ...and a bad politician.

Please don't make the mistake of making politics personal.

[Wetzelbill]

130. she's a pretty good politician, actually

not much of a lawmaker though.

The personal aspect to this is she gets vilified, when she has done a lot for Dems and is someone who fights for us most of the time. The problem is, she is so status quo oriented on certain issues and such a political opportunist that in many ways she's not much better than Repubs. I don't think she needs to be vilified, however, she'd also never get my vote in a primary probably not ever. She's not nearly progressive enough for me on certain issues.

[Neil Lisst]

131. My criticism of her on this point is legitimate.

And I specifically relate it to her presidential aspirations, not her role as a Senator. That is the reason I didn't call her SENATOR, but PRESIDENTIAL ASPIRANT.

I think it's very interesting that a cartoon draws much stronger opposition than a post saying the same thing. It bears out my decision to use a political cartoon to offer such opinions.

I won't be surprised if this one gets picked up for print publication.

[Wetzelbill]

132. I would say it is legitimate

yeah. You're also not vilifying her, you're taking on something that a lot of us are frustrated about.

[LittleClarkie]

31. Interesting. But your Kerry cartoons can kiss my grits

Teresa is a lovely woman who doesn't deserve to be called Mrs. Howell.

Saying Kerry looked like Frankenstein gives me flashbacks to dealing with freepers during the campaign.

And in answer to your question, it was bullshit like that from our own damn side that is the reason Kerry lost, plus the possible fraud, of course. That was the only bit of your Kerry cartoons that wasn't utter bullshit.

If you're going to roast the guy, there are ways to do it that would actually be amusing, and not so simple-minded.

The least you can do is keep the Missus out of it.

But then, I wasn't actually waiting for a Hillary cartoon. And I don't even like her very much.

[Neil Lisst]

32. Hey, I'm just glad you read them and had a reaction.

The are editorial cartoons, inherently opinion and intended to amuse or provoke. Glad the Kerry cartoons did one of those.

[Wetzelbill]

133. don't lie!

You know you have a Hillary tattoo! You love her. :)

[Neil Lisst]

134. I love her, but I'm not IN LOVE with her.

:D

[Wetzelbill]

135. that depends on what the meaning of "in" is

:)

[Neil Lisst]

34. Breakfast! Hillary being grilled.

here

[MrBenchley]

35. Jeeze, that isn't a cartoon I've been waiting to see....

So how come you didn't include Robert Byrd? After all, he's a co-sponsor of a similar bill, S. 1370.

[Neil Lisst]

36. because Robert Byrd isn't running for president

Let's not lose our ability to either see ourselves as we are, or to laugh at same.

[MrBenchley]

37. So what?

"Let's not lose our ability to either see ourselves as we are"
Let's demonstrate that ability first.

[Neil Lisst]

40. Speak for yourself, Benchley. My insights are just fine.

Your lack of a sense of humor is tedious and chronic. Take a break from grumbling.

[MrBenchley]

43. It shows....

And it's hilarious to hear "take a break from grumbling" from somebody who seems to specialize in cartoons grumbling about other Democrats....

[Neil Lisst]

47. sorry, Mrs. Clinton

I've had fewer than 5 cartoons lampooning Democrats.

Like I said, Grumpy, go take a nap. Then take your Metamucil, then see if you can get in a better mood.

[MrBenchley]

48. Wow...you were clueless enougth to believe the videots?

I don't know which is sadder or more pathetic...that the teenz posted it in the first place, or that they keep posting a link to it, as if it isn't sad and pathetic.

[Neil Lisst]

51. It's a joke.

Please, go get in a better mood.

[MrBenchley]

55. It's too lame to be a joke....

[Neil Lisst]

56. I take it you're NOT Hillary Clinton.

ok

I didn't think you were.

Probably Hillary volunteer, eh?

[MrBenchley]

57. What was the first clue?

[Neil Lisst]

59. uh, you don't have thick ankles and a moustache?

just a guess ...

See, that's also a joke, unless you're a Hillary fan.

[Writer]

69. Look Neil Lisst...

It simply seems like you can't handle anyone disagreeing with you. That goes for me, Little Clarkie, MrBenchley, and the rest. If you don't like it, say so. But your puerile little flame wars do not do your "cartoons" any service.

[Neil Lisst]

74. Look, pretend writer

I have a thread to discuss the issues raised in the cartoon. You and a couple of others have predictably taken exception. You've let me know, and I've let you know what I think about your opinions.

It's not a flame war, it's a discussion of the topic, except for your rabbit trail into the civil war. If you don't wish to discuss it, why are you still reading this thread?

You and a couple of Hillary fans have your dander up over the cartoon. If you don't want to be rebuked for your blind loyalty, you don't have to talk to me.

I've noticed that when a few of you find a thread you don't like, you try to load it down with your weak attempts at creating a flame war, usually by trying to take the topic down some silly path. Not gonna work here. Stick to the topic.

[Writer]

81. I can't argue with a narcissist. n/t

[MrBenchley]

76. Nice "progressive" comeback though, wasn't it?

Always interesting to see the mask drop.....

[Neil Lisst]

77. Benchley, please stay on topic

You and your friend's comments are off topic. Please either get on topic or find another thread.

[Writer]

82. Neil Lisst, quite frankly, you're not worth it. n/t

[Neil Lisst]

99. If you're having problems understanding history ...

... let me know. I can help.

[MrBenchley]

83. The topic WAS how Hillary betrayed your "progressive" values (snicker)

Imagine our surprise.

[Neil Lisst]

93. NOT wrapping oneself in the flag is a progressive value.

Shilling for she who wraps herself thusly is not.

[MrBenchley]

94. Evidently, by your lights, so are sexist slurs and slander....

So why isn't Robert Byrd wrapping himself in the flag when he proposes a similiar law?

[Neil Lisst]

95. I've made no such sexist slurs or slanders.

Stop lying.

[Writer]

115. Hey, Neil!

Hi. Yes, it's me again.

That doctorate you received from that Top 10 University... which university was it?

Curiously,

Writer.

[Neil Lisst]

123. Do you really think ....

I'm going to give personal information to someone like you?

[Writer]

111. Dude...

This guy is a totally feeding off of our responses. He's propping up a shaky ego here, ya know? I'd just leave it alone.

P.S. There's something fun in your in-box!

[Neil Lisst]

124. Thanks! It's good to hear from fans like you.

Thanks for being a buddy.

[kliljedahl]

116. So how much is the DLC paying you to post here?

Enquiring minds need to know.

[LittleClarkie]

136. I'm not a Hillary fan, but that's the old "Hillary is a lesbian" bullshit

Of all the issues a person could have with her, whether or not she has thick ankles and a mustache certainly must be way, way at the bottom.

So we have "Hillary is a lesbian" and "John Kerry looks like Frankenstein" and "Teresa aka Mrs Howell made Kerry lose the election."

Even if someone is not a fan of any of these people, that's just childish, not to mention that it looks like you were tasting the Koolade at some point.

Surely you must have something of substance to say about these people besides their looks and what you think of their demeanor. Some policy issue, perhaps? Something?

[mdmc]

38. good morning!

Is this your toon, or did did someone else create it?

Did Hill support an anti flag burning amendment or something?

The other day I saw a Delay toon. He was holding a tiny tee shirt with the word "power" on it. He had just pulled the shirt from a laundry machine. On top of the laundry machine there was a box of "money laundering detergent". The look on Delay's face was priceless.

Your toon was pretty good, too.

[Neil Lisst]

41. It's mine.

Yes, Hillary is getting behind a bill to provide certain penalties for flag burning, and she's spoken on the topic recently. Google "Hillary, flag" and I'm sure you'll find many stories on it.

[mdmc]

68. good work

or better than I could do.

peace and low stress

[LincolnMcGrath]

39. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=248&topic_id=2667&mesg_id=2680

[Neil Lisst]

42. That's hilarious.

I actually agree with Mr. Benchley on some points he advances regarding inclusiveness towards the center of the party from those on the left. I'm big on party unity, but this is about who will hold the party banner in 2008.

Notice that in my cartoon, I called her a presidential aspirant. I would not lampoon her if I thought she was simply representing her state constituency, or even following her heart. No, this is a bald play for the middle.

[Sparkman]

63. Free speach supercedes patriotism in my world, still. Emailing H.C. is a

way to attempt getting a pro-liberty opinion to Senator Clinton. Burning icons or idols or documents is only a property destruction crime, not a treason. But don't fret, Clinton will not be the nominee, imo, but that will require some time to prove out.

[Neil Lisst]

44. Lunch time!

Who wants some Hillary, wrapped in flag?

[kliljedahl]

50. Just prior to that

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Neil Lisst]

52. That's a great cartoon! Thanks!

Perfect! Hillary using it as a towel!

last refuge ...

[kliljedahl]

53. Just posted it today

Have you checked my TOON posts? I'm a fan of yours but avoid including you in my posts since I know you post them. You do great stuff.




Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Neil Lisst]

58. Thanks, appreciate it.

Are you creating cartoons? Or are you talking about posting them here, cartoons of others? This may sound weird, but since we started doing this cartoon, I generally avoid reading other political cartoons because I don't want my process influenced by some other artist's work.

We are trying to bring OUR approach, which is influenced by my readings of cartoons over the decades, from Oliphant to Trudeau to Larsen. But we try to mix it up, thus the whole Safari series where we look at political stripes in the country. Hell, those cartoons were influenced by really old Looney Tunes.

I decided three months ago to create this character and cartoon series, recruited my Canadian artist as a partner in full, and we have been cranking it ever since. We've gotten a toehold with Cox Newspapers, and been getting published once a week by them on the Op-Ed page.

An editorial political cartoon is a snapshot of a thought, and if we do it right, it is complete. Today's communicates well the thought it is intended to communicate, and it elicits response from readers. I'm almost certain it will get published in print media, probably this coming weekend.

[kliljedahl]

60. I don't create any

I just compile & post editorial cartoons from around the world. I'm not creative at all.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Neil Lisst]

62. OK, that would explain why I have not read those threads.

If you put a cartoon up and say it's yours, I'll look at it, but I try to avoid the threads with all the cartoons. It's like standup comics. You don't want to steal someone else's ideas.

[Dogmudgeon]

67. The Last Refuge of a Scoundrel

And as we all know, Hillary is the only scoundrel in the Senate.

:sarcasm:

Y'know, Pigwidgeon doesn't like some of HRC's positions, either, but at least she'll listen to us. Will Bush and his Culture Warriors? Instead of bitching about her, we ought to be talking to her.

--p!

[Neil Lisst]

72. It's one cartoon, Hillary fan.

You write as if one cannot criticize Hillary AND Republicans. I'm complaining about Hillary acting like one of them by wrapping herself in the flag.

I expect a few hardcore Hillary fans to take exception, but that happens. I'm not sorry, and your condemnation strikes me as silly, at best.

[radio4progressives]

79. I think the cartoon is great... someone needs to send it to her

if it hasn't been done already...

[Neil Lisst]

84. hey, you make some cool cartoons, too r4p!

but I don't always comment!

[radio4progressives]

97. I meant that as a compliment...

apparently, you took it to mean an insult?

i hope not!

[Neil Lisst]

103. No, I was serious. Maybe I have you confused with radfringe.

He said lamely.

Oops. I confused you with radfringe, who has some cool cartoons he or she makes.

[radio4progressives]

112. no worries.... does radfringe have a link?

[Neil Lisst]

125. I didn't even realize the confusion until you said something.

Be on the lookout. He or she has a new out every few days.

[Nebraska_Liberal]

88. Good cartoon.

Thumbs up for you.

[Neil Lisst]

90. Glad you like it. Nebraska is a state with some Dem pols ...

... I've gotten along with in the past. I'm a big Bob Kerrey fan. Got along with Exon, even though he was too conservative for my blood.

I have a good friend from Nebraska who now lives in DC and puts together various political efforts. He worked in the Clinton White House, and now he's in business with Joe Lockhart.

We go way back to the early 80s, when he was doing work canvassing in the state.

[Dogmudgeon]

96. Condemnation?

Nah, that wasn't condemnation. But I must see close to 50 anti-Hillary threads here per week. That's more than John Cornyn, George Allen, or even Rick Santorum gets.

Silly? A cartoonist is calling me silly? Why, I'm flattered. :)

--p!

[Neil Lisst]

98. Then your gripe is that people hate Hillary.

Who is stopping you from starting threads about those pubs? Not me.

[Dogmudgeon]

101. My gripe is mainly about proportion.

A secondary idea (not a gripe, per se) is about responding to editorial cartoons. If you're an editorial cartoonist, you have to expect that some people will disagree with you -- even your staunchest fans. Good examples of this would be Tony Auth or Pat Oliphant. I love 'em, but sometimes I want to wring their necks. Heck, they encourage it in their readers, and even in their fans. The alternative is being ignored.

You can't expect the whole world to agree with you. What fun would that be?

--p!

[Neil Lisst]

102. I welcome all comments, but I will respond in kind.

My responses are guided by the posts and the tenor of each.

I don't expect everyone to agree. I know that any time I criticize any Democrat, someone here won't like it. That goes with the territory.

But if someone wants to throw down on the thread, I'm a street fighter from way back.

Besides, controversy is great for coverage.

[radio4progressives]

78. Friends in NYC say HRC never meets with them, despite countless efforts

she, as did my Senator Dianne Feinstein tend to play hide and seek, duck and run throughout the past four years.

My Senator Boxer on the other quite a different story. It's been very easy to meet with Sen. Boxer.

In recent weeks however, Sen. Feinstein has shown some "interest" in setting up an appointment for a bit of a chat. If we promise to give her a break on the "genie that can't be put back into the bottle" - her vote on the Iraq War.

Friends of mine in New York, says Hillary Clinton go by the same play book when it comes to avoiding meeting with constituents.

Anyone holding an elected office who works to avoid meeting with their constituents once in office, does not deserve to hold that office.

[Neil Lisst]

86. Oh, she's running alright, and nothing else matters.

If she's going to run, she'd better remember to dance with who brung her, and right now, she's not doing that. She's dancing with who didn't brung her.

[BenDavid]

85. Have any of you Hillary

haters ever stopped to think that maybe she is promoting this bill to keep the republicans from bringing their flag burning bill up that would make a change in the U S Constitution?

[Writer]

87. No, Ben. There is no time for that.

There is only time to personally attack those that don't have a problem with what Hillary is doing. ;)

[Neil Lisst]

104. It's about Hillary, not her fans.

sorry to disappoint

[Neil Lisst]

89. Have any of you Hillary apologists ...

... ever stood back and taken a good look at what she is doing these days?

You act as if we have always hated her. We don't. We hate what she is doing now in her quest to get elected president.

[radio4progressives]

113. exactly, it isn't as personal as it is about the ISSUES

in this case making flag burning a crime is pretty damn desperate pandering.

[Zhade]

91. I don't always agree with your views...

...but you've NAILED her on this one.

[Neil Lisst]

92. Even I don't always agree with my views!

To me, a cartoon is like a poem or a song. It expresses a thought or feeling that may apply to that moment, but not others. As I've said many times, if she wins the nomination, I'll support her. I don't "cut and run" when my personal favorite doesn't win.

I created Neil Lisst political and decided to write an editorial cartoon specifically to impact the body politic by helping to frame the dialogue. I wrote this one based in part upon the strong anti-Hillary sentiment and polls I have seen and read here at DU. I am merely giving voice to all those opinions in cartoon form.

Just as I had misgivings about characterizing JFKerry as FrankenKerry, I had misgivings about showing Hillary wrapped in a flag. But dammit, that's life in the political commentary business.

[Zhade]

117. Oy. Well, hope she enjoys your vote, she won't get mine.

But then, I hope to "cut and run" to Canada within the next year or so, as I think this country is just not the place for me.

Maybe never was.

[Neil Lisst]

126. I can understand your feelings, but I'm a Democrat and I vote it.

If she gets the nod, I'll support her.

[spindrifter]

122. Hey--I was looking at the 12-13 cartoon!

It is absolutely svelte! Thanks for drawing these conclusions!

[Neil Lisst]

127. Are you talking about these two cartoons?

Are you talking about these two cartoons from September about Katrina and the aftermath?



We were really feeling the darkness then.

[spindrifter]

137. Actually, it was

the Holidays one, but the Katrina math problem one is also great.

[Neil Lisst]

138. Oh yeah, that one. I really like that one, too.

It expresses the spirit of the holiday season, which is equal consideration to all beliefs and practices, even though those of us who celebrate Christmas are in the vast majority.