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Thom Little Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:35 PM
Original message
Why Hillary Won't Win
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 06:42 PM by Thom Little
Each time John McCain stoops to commit some purely, nakedly political act, like campaigning for George W. Bush’s reelection or giving his okay to the teaching of “intelligent design” in public schools, I cringe. There are so few national politicians wired to speak candidly, from the heart and the hip, that I have a soft spot for almost all of them—Bob Kerrey, sure, but also Bob Dole and Bill Weld, even nuts like Jesse Ventura. So when McCain behaves like a normal politician, it’s a disturbing departure from my Frank Capra script for him.

The same kind of gesture from Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, simply confirms what one thinks already, since the script for her (more Cukor, less Capra) is all about cool calculation and calibration in service to the main chance. She is, after all, the feminist who at age 35, seven years married, started calling herself Hillary Rodham Clinton in order to give her husband a better chance at winning back the governorship in old-fashioned Arkansas. So when she announced the other day that she was signing on as a co-sponsor of a new anti-flag-desecration bill—Look at me! I’m jerking right!—it seemed in character. It was one more fragment of evidence, unattractive but inevitable, that she is not really running for reelection to the Senate from New York.

.......

Such gratuitous moves to the right tend to make all voters doubt her more nuanced and (probably) sincere positions on genuinely important issues. People think she’s being weaselly even if she isn’t. Like when she told a pro-choice crowd that abortion is “a sad, even tragic choice.” That was a worthwhile Sister Souljah moment, smart and effective. Her view of Iraq has been consistent and, to me, convincing—the administration was reckless and incompetent in managing the occupation, but immediate withdrawal or a rigid timetable would also be reckless, and the U.S. must now pay a still-higher price to try to prevent a Zarqawiite victory and Talibanic rogue state. But again, people mistrust her sincerity.

It’s the “authenticity” problem. Bill Clinton is probably every bit as calculating as his wife, but he could mitigate it with his robust charm and half-fake, half-real sincerity. Only the people who made a partisan point of hating him didn’t like Clinton at least a little bit. The same was true of Ronald Reagan. And there you have it: a happy-go-lucky Hollywood divorcé, then a junk-food-loving horndog, and now a frat-boyish former drunk and ne’er-do-well, all three of them mischievous repentant sinners and all of them (yes) sort of hot—American voters have been habitually choosing a certain kind of distinctly American person as president, and Hillary Clinton is not that kind of person.


http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/columns/imperialcity/15395/
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ta Da! Bingo!
:kick: :applause: :hi:
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LiberalPartisan Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'll never vote for her
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hillary is probably more liberal than Bill
at least she was considered to be at one time, BUT she doesn't have Bill's charm or persausive way with voters. I will support her if she is nominated, but doubt she can win.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
57. Untrue.
Bill would never have sponsored this flag-burning bullshit.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Quit bashing Hillary! Wha wha waaaaaaah
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 06:43 PM by iconoclastNYC
Come on guys! Stop beating up Hillary!!! I mean, her husband was President! She can't lose!!! The only people who hate her are Freepers! Are you a freeper!

Wha wha wha....

If I could think of something good to say about her, I'd do that now, but since I can't....I'll just cry and whine like a baby that you are saying bad things about Hillary.

Wha wha wha....

You guys are SO MEAN!
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DontTreadOnMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Hillary Can't Win
If the DNC chooses to run Hillary in '08, it will be worse than Gore or Kerry.
The current polls show McCain crushing Hillary.
Nominating Hillary falls right into the Freeper's trap...

Republican Lite will not win in '08.

It's time to start campaigning for a true DEM leader for President in '08 --
because Hillary will be the death of the Democratic Party.

"Anyone But Hillary!" -- start printing the bumper stickers now!
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Hillary will win easily because of Clinton nostalgia
The Clinton's are the only Dems to win ther presidency since 1976. They only need ask "Were you better off 8 years ago or now?"
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Can I borrow your rose colored glasses?
Clinton nostalgia??? Maybe for people here, but a large portion of American doesn't pine away for the Clinton's

For Hillary to win she needs more than the 35% to 40 % of the base that pulls for a {D} even if Bullwinkle the Moose was running

I'm not knocking her, but she is a extremely polarizing figure. I know people who would rather vote for the dead candidate than Hillary
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
60. Really?
but a large portion of American doesn't pine away for the Clinton's

Got any polling information to back that assertion up?
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. The CLINTONS didn't win a presidency W J Clinton did
Hillary Lovers seem to forget that.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Bill Clinton said they were a two-for and she was the most involved
first lady possibly in American history.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Yes, She was why I supported Bill. But that was then & this is now..
enuf said...
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. What's the Constitution say?
Doesn't say anything about electing a two-fer.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. And Bill only won because a third party candidate took
repub votes from Bush senior. Does anyone think Hillary would have such luck? Clinton never received a majority vote, in either election. That just doesn't WIN the white house anymore. I don't think anyone believes Hillary could do better than Bill.
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
45. Uh, yeah it does.
The candidate that won in 2000 didn't have a majority either. He didn't even have a plurality. Come to think of it he won with less electoral votes too.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
61. Exit polls refute that
Exit polls taken in 1992 show that Perot voters were evenly split between how they would have voted had Ross not been in the race. I.e., Clinton would have won even without Perot in the race.
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BigYawn Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
41. Bingo
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
46. delete
Edited on Sat Dec-24-05 04:33 AM by AtomicKitten
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. You mean SENATOR Hillary? Show some respect! Whaa, whaa...
....and did you know that 2006 comes before 2008? Wha, wha, wha, wha, wha.

....and what about all the corporate media republican driven polls picker her as the front runner? Wha, wha, wha, wha, wha.
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edbermac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hillary should stick with the Senate
If the Dems take over the Senate she'll have more muscle there...
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. For Hillary to win, she has to overcome some very serious
problems.
# 1 - She can no longer triangulate positions. The country is too partisan. Very small center to balance positions off of.
# 2 - She is a women. I know that's not very PC, but in times of being on a war footing, It's a tough sell to the American people.
# 3 - About 40 - 45 % of Americans simply hate her or seriously distrust her.
# 4 - Hillary does not do well in unstructured forums. The national debates would be a mauling.
# 5 - Who would be her VP.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. If she can't win then why are all of you staying awake at night worrying?
The reality is that deep inside you all know she CAN win, so you're trying to talk yourselves into believing that she CAN'T win. LOL!!

Yup, she can win the Democratic Primary for sure, and she will...unless some unsung hero comes out of the blue like a Jimmy Carter or even another Bill Clinton did. Right now, when it comes to winning the primaries, nobody holds a stick to her, not Kerry, not Clark, not anyone currently in the running. Am I happy about that? No, not really, because I'd love to see someone come to save the day for all Democrats and give her some competition, but Hillary is a crafty enough politician and a good enough Democrat that I don't worry for a second when it comes to being competent.

Funny how she can't win, yet I've never seen and heard more people from both extreme ends of the political spectrum worry so much about exactly that!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. No - I worry that she'll win the Dem Primary either because
of Diebold or because the media has so pushed her as the front-runner that sheeple Dems will vote for her.

AND THEN, she'll be mauled by the Republicans in the general election.

I don't worry about her winning the general election at all. If I thought she could, I'd be all for a woman in the White House, but I know she won't, so I'm backing a smarter, less polarizing figure who's actually has more leadership abilities in his pinky than Hillary does in her whole body (she's smart, but I wouldn't put her in the "leader" category).
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. I'm not against going with a "less polarizing" figure either,but as of now
Hillary is one of our best bets to win because there IS nobody else that can compete with her when it comes to election 2008 and because she is just about our ONLY bet to win, unfortunately. If there is someone else as of this moment, please point him or her out. Sure we're all hoping for someone new to come out of the blue and take the country by surprise. That would be great, but until that person emerges, Hillary stands alone at the top of the heap.

Having watched Hillary and listened to how she responds to the right wing in the past, I'd have total confidence in her running a fine campaign with a good chance of winning over many of her naysayers. She's a brilliant lady, a crafty politician, a loyal Democrat with a topnotch progressive record, has a broad base of financial support, she doesn't back down from liars, and she'd make a good president...despite all the rumors of the opposite that we always hear around here.

Would I like it if someone else emerged from our party and swept us all off our feet? Oh, you betchya!
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #28
56. I'm not arguing that she isn't all those things.
I'm merely stating that she won't win a general election.
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BigYawn Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #22
42. Hillary beats Clark 4:1, Kerry 2:1, Warner 3:2
I can bet on it, in 2008 nomination delegates.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. And then we lose the general election.
Pretty simple.
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sargon9 Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. I like Jesse Ventura
I could vote for him if he ran.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yeah, but she sure is the opposite of King George
isn't she.....don't count her out too soon.

In the end...they all play the same fucked up political game!!!

I think one thing will be true...people sure as hell won't want another King for president, that's why old Jeb won't be running.

Anyway....I think this is all way to premature.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. There is a market for Hillary but it won't win her the presidency
My mother LOVES her but, frankly, my mother isn't really very political and she knows almost NOTHING about her. I have found that most people that like her really don't know much about her. And she is the ULTIMATE flip flopper IMO. I agree. She's like watching a tennis match in the front row.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. :D >>>
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:::rofl:rofl:
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. self deleted duplicate
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 09:13 PM by radio4progressives
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Maybe you should check out the Hillary forum,
many people like her and know plenty about her.

Your post sounds like you think we are stupid if we like Hillary. That analysis is quite wrong.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. NO, NO, I know Duer's know Hillary. I just don't know why they can't
Edited on Thu Dec-22-05 12:33 PM by bush_is_wacko
truly see her for what she is and understand that she is not electable by the masses. I get regular emails from her campaign. She is a smart woman but not presidential material. AND in the real world the people that like her don't know the reality of her stances NOR do the people who dislike her. Hillary is the PERFECT choice if you don't want to see a Democrat in the White House in 2008. Stigma, flip-flopping, investigations into her backround.... All of it will be thrown at her non-stop. I don't really even think she can make it through the primaries. You have to view things from the other sides perspective too. They may be sick and tired of our governments antics but they aren't going to go for Hillary. The Freeper's actually pray that's who we'll run because they know she can't win.

I live in a mostly red state and I have heard some very interesting conversations regarding Hillary just sitting in Starbucks with my Evangelical nutcase neighbors. One particular group wearing Harley leather vests with church insignia added to it to show their affiliation with a particualarly fanatical church in the area. The hatred spewing forth from one womans mouth was enough to make me get up and leave in disgust and I don't like Hillary either.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Whether she is electable remains to be seen.
I think it is rather premature to be speaking in absolutes.

You may be right, I hope you are not. I am curious to know if you think she would make a good president if elected?

I hope the 2008 election doesn't come down to "who is the most electable" rather who is the most qualified as well.

Just think of the mess they will have to contend with. It boogles the mind! One thing is for sure, we must choose very carefully, and not expect perfection.

Best of the holidays to you and you family. 2006 will hopefully be a great year!!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. Hillary is the ultimate flip flopper? What's she flip flopped on?
If anything, she's entirely clear on her messages. You might not like her message but she doesn't flip and flop like Kerry at least.

So please fill me in on how she's a flip flopper.
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BigYawn Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
43. Thats what they said about Bill Clinton in 1992
Edited on Sat Dec-24-05 03:09 AM by BigYawn
that he was unknown, from a small backward state yada yada yadda.
Y'all underestimate the power & brains of the Clinton mafia.

typo edit
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. Is there any chance of moving the Hillary threads to
Edited on Wed Dec-21-05 09:12 PM by TOJ
one of the other forums? The Constitution is 1/2 way through the shredder, and there are at least 4 Hillary threads per day in GD and GD-P. We've got bigger Turd Blossoms to fry, people. Focus.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-21-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Perhaps the 9/11 Forum?
That's where they put ALL of the whackjob conspiracy stuff...
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. I think alot of people would say
the same thing about the Kerry threads??
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
25. Kinda skipped over Bush the first in his analysis
It wasn't Reagan, then Clinton. But then Bush the first doesn't fit his model, so he tossed the guy.

And we almost (actually, some would say we did) pick Gore instead of Bush.

And I'm sorry, but in what universe is GWB hot.

His Hillary analysis isn't bad, but I think he had to shoehorn the facts into his model.
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Dulcinea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. She won't run. Not in 2008, anyway.
Therefore, she won't win.

I like & respect Senator Clinton, but I think she'll stay in her present job for as long as the voters of New York want her there. She's much too polarizing a figure at this point to run for President. Maybe one day in the future?
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. That would be the greatest political play in decades!
I, too, am a Hillary supporter. Frankly, I'm sick to death of hearing about Hillary's run for the President in 2008! The speculation of it sprouted from the REPUBLICAN pundits and talking heads the day she announced her candidacy for Senator. That must have been a suprise to them; I don't recall them seriously speculating on her as a member of Congress while she was First Lady.

The Hillary in 2008 is another case of repeat it until it takes hold. It started with the Republicans, let it end with egg on their faces!
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. If HRC isn't planning on running, why is she raising money for 2008
presidential campaign in several states, which is OUTSIDE of NY.

Then why is Susan Estridge running all around the country, promoting this, saying it so, and helping to raise money for it?
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. I don't quite understand this polarizing thing.
If true, why does she get such high poll numbers?

She can't please everyone! My main concern, unfortunately is, women don't seem to like her.

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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #36
58. She gets "high" poll numbers because she's the only one
people know well enought to check her off.

Right now, it's just a popularity contest.

This time in the election cycle between 2000 - 2004, Lieberman was winning all the popularity contests and we saw how well his campaign went. :eyes:
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PWRinNY Donating Member (456 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. I agree she won't run
Hillary is a GREAT Senator for us here in NY, and I have tremendous respect for her. I think she'd make a great President someday, and though she's not my first choice for 2008, if she did run and win the Primary, I'd support her wholeheartedly. I just don't see her running for Prez in '08. I think it's all a lot of media hype and right-wing wet dreams. We'll see if I eat my words, but if I was a betting person, I'd bet she's not running in '08. JMO.
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leetrisck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
27. Because she's informed, smart, accomplished,
fights back like hell, a working mother, an accomplished attorney, fights for women's rights, stands up for our military - the list goes on as to why she won't win.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
44. anybody who supports this war is NOT standing up for
the military. nt
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #27
53. Fights back like hell????
Like voting for this war? Making statements about how great life is now for Afghani and Iraqi women...those women's rights? Stands up for our military by enabling them to die without proper equipment in a war that we didn't need to fight. And as an accomplished attorney one would think she would oppose the Patriot Act, or violation of voting rights or NAFTA's over riding of our environmental laws.

If Hillary is fighting for anything at all it is her own political fortunes. That's all.
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
29. She would lose all 50 states
to John McCain. Sorry. Thems the facts.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-22-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
33. Sometimes I think she'll never actually run but won't comment - here's why
Because as long as the republicans think she is running they're putting all their focus into defeating her and not really paying much attention to the other dozen democrats expressing interest in running for president.

Plus, she's seen what it's like being president, why in the hell would she put herself through 8 years of the same type of hell they put her husband through.

But the neo-cons hate anything with Clinton and feel that Hillary is the greatest threat to democracy with the looming "Hillary for PResident" candidancy that may happen.

As far as I'm concerned, I like her flirting with the idea because it keeps this nutjobs focused on her and not whomever would be the real candidate for president
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-23-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Don't count her out, we were all wondering why
she stayed with her husband. That woman sure can take alot of humiliation. I was sure she would dump him.

I don't think she is that predicable.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
39. If McCain is the puke nominee
we haave an uphhill climb regardless of whom our nominee is.

If we have Hillary against McCain, wee truly are screwed. The only two or three I believe can take McCain on is Warner, Clark, or ironically Feingold (he is authetic and trustworthy...traits many pols aren't perceived to have).

If this is McCain vs. Hillary this race is not worth even paying attention to. It would be a diisaster. I can't think of which states outside of maybe VT, Mass, and NY which Hillary would win.

Even against a more nutty RW candidate, Hillary would have a tough time. How is it expected thaht Hillary wins states like WI, IA, Pa, and NM, which we either barely won, or barely lost this time?

Can't think of one state wheree Hillary would win, thta Gore or Kerry lost in...sorry.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. The right wingers hate McCain as much as they hate Hillary.
Way to early to be making any predictions.
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guidod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-24-05 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
40. On the 1st of January could we please
stop talking about what-ifs for 2008 and center in on 2006? Just a thought.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Amen, welcome newbie!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
48. 2008 is too far ahead to say whether she or someone else
will lose or win. Our country's system of checks and balances and its constitution are under heavy pressure and the world itself might look alot different then. The negative changes have been too rapid in the last few years. Any real victories have to be now.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
52. Hillary will run, she'll win the Dem primary, and she'll be President
John - Intelligent Design is science, torture isn't bad if you only do it sometimes, Bush politically raped my wife and kids on national TV but I just want to hug him - McCain won't beat her, and neither will any Republican after eight years of corruption, lies, trillion-dollar deficits, $3 gas, costly illegal invasions, and so much more.

Hillary is easily the most deft politician on the left. Far better than Dean or Kerry, better than Al Gore was in 2000, and with far more political experience than Wes Clark, who was my clear choice in 2004 for the Dem nomination. The Iraq war will be an uncomfortable memory by 2008, which was Wes's most visible selling point, though I think he's great across the board.

Hillary will be the first female President of the United States, and it's about fucking time. Democrats should and will be extremely proud of that.
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
54. She has my support.
If she wins the democratic nomination.
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
59. too many people automatically won't vote for her
and will campaign their asses off against her. I’m not even sure she can be elected over their worst candidates – Frist, Brownback, Santorum. She has no chance against McCain, Hagel, Allen or Rudy. Only the base will vote for her, and some of them won’t. I won’t. Not that it matters in my state. She’ll lose about 73-23 here no matter who they run.
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