Need help with Republican girlfriend

[bspence]

Ok, last night my girlfriend was complaining that she couldn't afford to buy a place in the DC area. She found one place that looked decent and was in her price range, but later found out it was low income housing. She got pissed off that poor people could afford to live in DC, but she has been shut out of the market. Then she said,"THIS is why I'm a Republican. Democrats have screwed the middle class to give handouts to the poor!"

Which blew my mind. I guess a lot of Republicans think that way. They see Dems giving handouts to the poor in the same way that we see Republicans giving handouts to the rich. I know she's wrong, because Republicans have done nothing but screw over the middle class, but she doesn't see it that way.

I didn't want to piss her off by getting into a big discussion on politics. She's not a huge Republican, she just grew up that way. She might come around if seen the light. She doesn't support the war and doesn't like Bush, so there's hope.

It's hard to disagree with her on some points, because DC Democrats are pretty crappy about protecting the middle class. They go overboard with helping the poor, in my opinion. Many poor people in this area know how to work the system.

What are some good zingers I could throw at her to show that Democrats, not Republicans, are for the middle class???

[PCIntern]

1. Tell her:

"That's the most ridiculous thing you've said...except for everything else you've ever said."

And then leave. for good.

A lifetime of misery and probable lack-of-sex-after-marriage syndrome awaits you. I had to say it so you can never say, "Nobody ever told me it would be this way."

[bspence]

12. Too late

The sex is awesome

[mzteris]

16. for now . . .

it too shall pass.

Then what are you left with?

I'm with the above poster, run.

[...of J.Temperance]

23. I always thought that Republicans seem frigid and unadventurous

They come across as less sexually open-minded. To be honest knowing how selfish and greedy Republicans in general are...I wouldn't sleep with one.

But relationships actually need more than sex, they need for the people involved to have interests in common.

Of course, if you can have good fucking and shared interests in common, then that's the best situation.

[bspence]

28. Which is why I think there's hope

She's good in bed and she doesn't like Bush or the war. I think she's a Republican just because she grew up with that label. I think if she spent time looking deeper into politics, she'd relate with Democrats more than Republicans. That's why I'm looking at non-offending ways to prod her over to the good side of the force.

[...of J.Temperance]

33. The thing you should be concerned about is this comment:

"That's why I'm a Republican, Democrats have screwed the middle class to give handouts to the poor."

That's a very selfish comment mon ami. Some of those people on welfare, I agree they could be taken off welfare and put into a job. However, there's many people on welfare who literally have no other option but to be on welfare.

I'm actually Upper Class, but I believe that it's our moral duty to take care of those who are less fortunate than we are. I don't resent anyone giving handouts to the poor.

You need to talk to her about her above comment, ask her if that's what she really believes. I mean you can just bring up various political issues with her...healthcare, education, tax cuts, the National Debt which is $8.1 trillion dollars, stuff like this.

[YOY]

41. It could be selfish or just parroting of party lines

Sometimes we repeat things without thinking about what they really mean. Maybe she really hasn't thought about it, but has only parroted and mimicked those around her growing up...

[...of J.Temperance]

64. You could be right...it could be something that

Perhaps she's heard on Faux for instance.

[bspence]

42. She thinks more than poor people should receive help

She thinks the middle class deserve something too. I don't think that's selfish. I think she feels that even though it's good to help the poor, that the Dems have gone too far.

[...of J.Temperance]

65. I think

That we need to help the poor and the middle class, this can be done. We need to offer some new tax credits for the middle class.

Of course the best thing for the middle class would be a Democratic Senate and Democratic House...and in 2008 a Democratic President.

President Clinton was very good for the middle class.

The poor will always need our help, because they're vulnerable and they have immense difficulty in fighting the fight, there is always going to be a section of society that's vulnerable in this way and if they need help, we must not shut them off.

On Edit: Dammit I missed an important word out.

[bspence]

71. Agreed

When CEOs and upper management are making hundreds of times more than their subordinates, something's wrong. The fact that we have laws that allow companies to toss employees left and right when they start making too much, is reprehensible. I live in Virginia, a "right to work" state. Average salaries for middle and lower class people is worse here. If workers had protections, this wouldn't happen.

Who can afford to have company loyalty anymore?

Then to get rid of the estate tax, it's awful. That's one zinger that I want to tell her. If Republicans love the middle class, then why'd they cut programs for lower and middle class while protecting the tax cuts for the richest people?

I just want more examples like that to tell her. I want to bombard her with undeniable facts that Republicans have hurt the middle class while helping the rich. This is why we need a Rush Limbaugh type asshole on our side. We need an echo chamber. Sadly, I don't listen to Air America enough.

[...of J.Temperance]

74. You need to tell her

Exactly what you've just written there...print it out if need be and memorize it!!

[formernaderite]

144. Clinton certainly screwed the poor on welfare

when he passed welfare reform...which had little to do with reform, and everything to do with winning an election.

[FreedomAngel82]

126. Gone too far?

So what does she want? No homeless shelters? No helps for veterans? No medicaid to help the poor with health care? So should they just get sick and die? Or how about school lunches? Sometimes food at school is the only thing they have. Has she ever been around inner city kids and their lives? So please give me a break on "dems going too far." So does she prefer we go back to the great depression?

[SharonAnn]

145. No, it's the Republicansthat have screwed the middle class. They

have stolen from the poor and the middle class to give to the wealthy.

Their tax cut 'benefits" hurt the middle class but give greatly to the wealthy.

[FreedomAngel82]

125. Just wondering

is she religious? If she is Christian show her Biblical verses about Jesus helping the poor, elderly, enviornment, children. Than ask her what has the republicans done about those issues? You can go to http://www.biblegateway.com to search for verses.

[amitten]

75. A lot of people are good in bed. A lot who aren't Republicans.

Priorities, priorities!

[...of J.Temperance]

78. One could say, that it's superficial just staying with someone solely

For sex. As I pointed out earlier, what about common interests, shared interests as well.

Staying with someone just for sex, that you mightn't have a lot in common with, it's purely...cosmetic. Mind you, this is the price some people pay for buying into the superficiality of the Britney Spears and Barbie doll world I think.

[FreedomAngel82]

124. Well what does she believe in politically?

Find out what she does believe in politically. Why doesn't she like Bush? Is it just because of the war or are there other reason's? Ask her question's about democratic policies without putting a label on them (the policies).

[mwb970]

76. So it always will be?

You must be quite young!

[bspence]

79. Dude, it was a light hearted comment

She's fun, she's not a rabid right winger. I doubt anyone who comes to DU could handle that. I ain't married to her, I'm just seeing if she's open to what Dems have to say. I think she's been fed a load of bull all her life by her Republican family.

[truebrit71]

108. Dump her.

No amount of nooky is worth putting up with a republican.

None.

[belle]

150. Have you tried saying something just like that to her?

You know, "I'm kind of shocked to hear you say that. That sounds more like something your parents would say than what I know of you. Is that really what you believe?"

Better yet, you might start with, "Personally, I think the Republicans have been screwing the poor *and* the middle-class to give to the rich. You don't see it that way? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Because here's how I arrived at mine:"


...and so on. Just talk to her, if it's important to you. You'll find out how intractable she is and how important this difference is to both of you, not to mention what both your styles are in political argument.

[MurrayDelph]

99. Psyco-bitch sex usually is

but, from experience (and having seen Fatal Attraction), I know the long-term cost that comes from it.

[BlueIris]

143. This (idea) can't be posted enough. bspence, while I don't think

it's appropriate to refer to characterize your s.o. as a "psycho" or a "bitch," um...I'm not a professional, but the things you posted about what she thinks do indicate a lack of concern for other human beings and a detatchment from reality so extreme that she could be mentally ill. I am not joking when I post this. That's another reason to leave this relationship.

[TheWatcher]

152. The sex is awesome? If you are that shallow, my friend

Then you will never have a healthy relationship.

Good Luck with that.

[Big Kahuna]

2. Tell her "property is theft"

...and the last Landlord will be hung by the entrails of the last Real Estate Broker when the Revolution(tm) comes!

[bspence]

27. Ha, then I'm going to burn

I own a rental property. I've had scares where I've had to pay two mortgages at once because tenants wouldn't pay the rent and protections on lower income people kept me from throwing the guy out. After two months of not even seeing a good faith payment, it's time to go. I'm not wealthy by any means (the house only cost $65K), but paying two mortgages while the tenant gets a free ride will put me in the poor house. Unfortunately, it's been cold, and I can't evict someone if the temperatures are below freezing.

I'd have no problem letting him stay if he made any sort of goodwill gesture that he intends to pay. He's not unemployed, he just blew his money on a trip to Jamaica. a-hole.

[FreedomAngel82]

127. If she doesn't think the government should help the poor

and middle class than what the hell does she want the government to do? Has she read the Constitution?

[belpejic]

3. Whoa!

First, poor people have nowhere to go. They have no mobility, unlike people in the middle and upper classes. You saw that in New Orleans -- Repubs carped on the fact that it was somehow the poor peoples' fault that they didn't get out, but the fact is that they couldn't get out. If you don't have a car, if you don't have family somewhere else, if you don't even have enough cash for a bus fare, well, what are you going to do?

It's our responsibility to make sure that every US citizen has decent housing, health care, education, and opportunities to grow.

Furthermore, you might ask her why housing prices are so high. I have a hint -- we're in a housing bubble, encouraged by the fiscal policies of this Republican government (i.e., artificially low interest rates to offset stagnation in pretty much every other sector of the economy). It's going to pop, as all bubbles do, though I'm loathe to make predicitions about timing or what the effects will be.

So, how about this: we have an obligation to take care of the less fortunate in our country, and the irresponsible Republicans in charge have allowed a housing price bubble to insanely inflate. Why not rent for a while, save your money (preferably in Euro-denominated accounts), and see where the chips fall?

[PCIntern]

6. don't try to convince her of anything political...

she's shown her true colors. Her fatal mistake!!

I dated a Rethug for years...everything but politics and religion were great. When we started the breakup procedure, she went off like someone form a Philip Roth novel.

[bspence]

10. She agrees with you

She doesn't hate the poor, she just thinks that Dems go to an extreme in helping the poor at the expense of working people.

You can only live in DC if you're poor, rich, or throwing your money away on rent. Which is true, but I don't think it's the Dems fault.

I like your bit about why housing prices are so high.

What I'd like to see more of is how Dems help the middle class more than Republicans do. Non-union middle class, especially.

[...of J.Temperance]

68. The Republicans plan is to destroy the middle class completely

The Republican's as they are now, they don't want a middle class and they don't want the poor...they only want the upper class.

This is why they want to destroy as many social programs as possible and this is why they're running a $8.1 trillion dollar National Debt and yet still are wanting more trillion dollar tax cuts for the wealthy.

[GCP]

111. "They don't want the poor"

Au contraire, mon ami - they want the poor. They want a good proportion of the population to be so desperate for work that they'll fight over whatever lousy jobs are left in this country for whatever lousy wages they want to pay. That's after all the decent jobs have been outsourced to India and China.
No unions, no benefits, no healthcare - that's the type of country Grover Norquist and his ilk are salivating over.

[FreedomAngel82]

129. And also they want

you so poor you'll join the army. This way no reason to have a draft and people can go fine and dandy in their own world(s).

[belle]

156. Support of hiking the minimum wage. Everything we take for granted

or did, up till recently--the 40-hour work week, paid overtime.

I don't know how it is in D.C., but here in NY, impossible as the rent situation is, it'd be that much worse if people, mainly Democrats, hadn't fought for rent-control. I shudder to think how bad it'd get if the "free market" Republicans got their way completely here. First a handful of nice apartments that were being clung to by older, poor people would get freed up, sure, and the low-income housing would get torn down and everything would be completely gentrified, which is probably what your gf thinks she'd want. And then absolutely everything would shoot up by a *minimum* of about 200%.

[AlecBGreen]

17. hey belpejic

welcome to DU! :hi: :toast: :party:

[belpejic]

57. Sweet!

Thanks! I've been lurking for years, but now I want to participate. You all rock!

[FreedomAngel82]

130. Welcome to the group

:hi:

[faithnotgreed]

157. you sound pretty great yourself - i would like to add my welcome

as well

heres to a great 2006 for ALL peoples

[niceypoo]

4. Ask her of God hates the poor

Ask her if God favors the rich

[sasha031]

5. try Democrat Match. Com

http://www.democraticmatch.com/

[MrMonk]

7. If she feels that way, she should try living as the poor do.

[YOY]

8. Dump the stupid tart

You could do better than an insensitive idiot like that... Obviously she has never had to live poor. A little bit of hard living could do the twat some good. You in the meantime should investigate the wonders of the independent liberal woman. The one that doesn't need you around for social, religious, or financial obligations, but likes your company...

Pretty crappy with protecting the middle class??? No, they're just pretty crappy with high level tax cuts for the rich.

Who is for unions? Who is for job creation? Surely not the shrubbots and neocons that have taken over the Republican party.

[bspence]

30. She grew up poor and in a big family

Her family never accepted handouts of any kind from others or from the government. She claims that she saw families that made less than her dad did (a veterinarian), yet they had more.

[YOY]

36. Well, tell her that at the very least they deserved a 'net'

and the Republican party and mentality is so wrapped up in 'not taking charity' that they forget that sometimes you need a 'net' incase you fall and fall hard. As we have seen in Katrina the people with no money are truly damned in a system that lets them fall and fall hard...

The net of course can be everything from subsidized housing, to socialized medical care, to social security, and yes welfare! I don't know just how she thinks that some people would PREFER to live this way, but isn't it good to know that if the worst happens, you will not die alone and in the gutter?

Does she have an college education? Scholarship? Loans? Military? Parents saved for college?

[bspence]

43. That's a good one

Thanks.

[spooky3]

56. ask her who is responsible for laws protecting her from discrimination

at school and at work? She would be less likely to have a middle-class job if the Rethugs who think all women should stay home or work as underpaid secretaries had their way.

[...of J.Temperance]

72. Why doesn't her Dad buy her a house? My Dad bought me a house

Her Dad's a veterinarian, couldn't he buy her a house, or at least give her like 80% toward a house?

My Dad bought me a house.

[belle]

151. Yeah, that explains a lot about where she's coming from. In that case:

Something like, "I know you don't like the idea of handouts. Doesn't it bother you that the Republicans give so many handouts to *rich* people? (list examples). That's why I'm a Democrat. I think it's important to be self-sufficient, too, but I think at least some compassion and justice are important, also. At any rate, given a choice between a party that subsidizes people who, for whatever reason, can't keep their heads above water, and a party that subsidizes people who already have more money than they could possibly spend, I'll take the former."

I'm just guessing here, but it sounds like you might have more success with the "Republicans take money away from you and me to support their super-rich friends" than with appeals to charity, at least at first.

[Zodiak]

63. Veterinarians are poor?

Wow...a vet is a far cry from a factory worker or a McDonalds "may I help you" employee. Big family or no, I have met very few vets who didn't more resources than the average person.

Are you sure that by poor she means money?

[bspence]

92. I don't know the whole deal

A veterinarian in Hagerstown might not make much. Hagerstown is poor, poor, poor.

[Zodiak]

102. I would still wager that a vet in Haggerstown...

makes more than the average person in Haggerstown.

[DancingBear]

114. Like hell it is

I live in VA as well - an hour and a half drive from Hagerstown, and it is a very average blue collar city.

No millionaires, to be sure, but certainly not one step away from demolition.

Actually, there is an "upscale" kitchen cabinet/design center in that city.

They did the kitchens/baths in a home I used to own, and quite a few high-end VA builders use them.

[belle]

153. Also depends on how the money was spent.

Going out on a limb here, I'm wondering if someone in the family had a bad tendency to piss it all away with addiction or gambling or something. Most of the non-freeper (i.e. I think they're worth talking to at all) Republicans that I know who aren't from the plutocrat class (i.e. most of them, as I don't know many actual plutocrats) tend to like the rigidity conservatism offers because they had a really negative model of what they tend to think of as "liberal"--as in, permissive and wasteful and out-of-control. They like the more punitive attitude because they feel cheated and hard done by, and they get sold on the image Republicanism still somehow manages to paint of itself, of being the party of "responsibility" and "hard work" and "morals" and so on.

In those cases you really need to not argue with her framework so much as to point out the wide, wide, WIDE gap between what the Republicans say they stand for and what they--at least the current lot--actually are. Then when she come back with something like "but the Democrats are just as bad, or worse," you need to be able to come back with concrete examples as to why that's not true. Try not to get too overheated or insist that she acknowledge that you're right, too; that always goes a long way. Make it more about your polite incredulity and your explanations about why *you* believe what *you* do. And as much as possible find the places where you do agree with her on general principles ("yes, I think you should have nice things and a nice place to live, too. Yes, you do work hard. Yes, hard work is important...") Only from there do you go on to talk about where you part ways and your reasons for doing so. ("I don't like the Republicans because they make it harder and harder for hard work to be enough to make it, for most of us, anyway. Here's how:")

[truebrit71]

109. Yup. Sure.

Time to move on mate..... :eyes:

[FreedomAngel82]

131. Had more how?

So what the hell is a person to do without help? Go to c-span.org and type in the Clinton library opening and try to find that. See a woman talking about how during Clinton's years she went totally broke. Thanks to his welfare program she was able to get started up on her own and she was able to start her own business and help other people who were in her situation. The government is supposed to help people and not just protecting people.

[Gemini Cat]

54. I Agree

Dump her.

[Jamison]

9. Show her the light...of DU.

Sit her down and have her read the "Economy & Jobs" forum on here. That will open her eyes to a lot.

How does she feel about Alan Greenspan?

He has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of Americans are shut out of the housing market.

[PCIntern]

11. She just wants to marry you

"I love you, you're perfect, NOW CHANGE!"

Date and marry a liberal - they're more fun and the first rule of relationships should be: "Do you feel as comfortable when you're with the person somewhere as you do when you're without them at the same place?" If the answer is no for, say the Dem Convention, then you're in trouble.

Show her this thread and see what she says...I double dog dareya!

[sasha031]

13. I've got mine and to hell with everybody else

"80% of Republicans are just Democrats who don't know what's going on" Robert F. Kennedy Jr

Sometimes I wonder about that statement, how do you address blind selfishness

[FreedomAngel82]

132. And than there's another quote I like

I think it's from Harry Truman who said: live republican vote democratic.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

14. slip out the back, Jack . . .

. . . drop off the key, Lee.

[...of J.Temperance]

83. Hey, let's NOT go THERE...

:spank:

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

15. Obviously SHE is not wealthy enough to vote Republican

This is the Halliburton/Enron/Oil Exec/Wall Street CEO class of Robber-baron Republican who CAN afford to pay cash for their DC/NYC brownstone...


Their response: She is clearly "not one of us" but we're glad she'll keep us in power.

[Jamison]

19. Wow you hit the nail on the head there.

"Their response: She is clearly "not one of us" but we're glad she'll keep us in power."

She is just a tool, a vote to keep them in power. If she thinks that they care if she can afford a home or not, she's wrong. They could care less if she had to go live in tent under an overpass.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

29. But they will support tax money for faith-based charity for his girlfriend

As long as she pledges her soul to the Rapturist Right wing of the Republican party.

Since she's not of the ruling class, she could best "serve" and be kept in line under the guidance of false prophets: Robertson, Falwell and Dobson.

[TNDemo]

18. Corporate welfare is what has gotten rid of the middle class.

Not helping the poor, which costs far less.

[LeFleur1]

22. Girlfriend

Dump her.
There is a huge philosophical difference between the two of you.
There is a hot liberal out there just waiting to show you what 'awesome sex' really is. :)

[eppur_se_muova]

113. Absolutely. Several trillion less. nt

[wryter2000]

20. I'd leave it alone

But if you really want to pursue it, buy a copy of Perfectly Legal by David Kaye Johnston. It's about how the Repugs have skewed the tax laws to benefit the ultra-rich and screw everyone else.

[zalinda]

21. Explain to her that those people living in the low income

housing probably have been living there for years before the prices went up. Thirty years ago I bought a house that cost $29,500, it is now worth $450,000, too bad we sold it when it was only worth $45,000. Housing has gone up so high in some areas that it has priced a lot of people out of the market. Watch those "low income" houses become "gentrified", as more and more of the poor can't pay the property taxes on them and have to sell.

But then there is always the old sage, "Either make more or want less".

zalinda

[Mummyman]

24. Is she hot?

If she's good looking enough, who cares if she's a Republican.

[bspence]

31. Unfortunately, she's really hot

I don't know how Republican she is, really. I think she just said it out of frustration at not being able to buy a house. She never talks about politics.

She even bought me an anti-war book recently.

[Mummyman]

35. Keep Her

If she's really hot, and she's your girlfriend, you'd be crazy to dump her. Politics are important and all, but come on now. And like you said, she isn't a crazy Republican or anything, so I'm sure you can work with her on certain issues.

She's sounds like the type of voter that we need to keep in the Democratic fold. Don't let her go!

[bspence]

45. Exactly

At least you're not in the 'dump her!' category of posters here.

I think she's exactly the kind of voter Dems need to woo. She's just misinformed.

As far as not dumping her because she's hot, I agree. To wit: "It's more important to look good, than to feel good, and you know what I'm saying dahling" - Billly Crystal on SNL

[FreedomAngel82]

134. So all you care about is looks on a woman?

Wow. Thanks for the confident booster with snagging a man.

[Jamison]

40. I'd say just work on her and lure her over to our side.

If she's against the war, then she obviously is not a full-out rabid freeper and might be open to becoming a progressive.

There are a good number of progressive people here on DU who have admitted to being freepers/GOP supporters in the past, so I believe that people can change (for the better).

[bspence]

46. I agree, hence the post

I need help luring her over.

[Jamison]

51. OK, well I can offer some advice.

1. Cut her off from the corporate media (especially Fox).
2. Read DU with her & encourage her to sign up if she feels comfortable with that. Point out that this is a place where you'll find news that is truly "fair & balanced" that the corporate media does not want you to know about.
3. Have her do some research on Alan Greenspan & the housing bubble.
4. Get some progressive books for her to read. I have one I would suggest that might help her change her views of the poor, that they're not all lazy crackheads with their hands out. Have her read "The Working Poor: Invisible in America" by David K. Shipler.
5. Have her google and research "corporate welfare" She'll find that corporate America sucks more money from the government than our nation's poor.

Try all of this for a start if she is open to it.

Good luck.

[bspence]

53. Thanks for helping, here's what I think:

1. Not a problem. She's pretty well-educated and worldly (which is why she's against the war).
2. Disagree. I'm the most liberal person I know, and DU sometimes scares even me. There's some freaks on here that I think would scare her away, not bring her in.
3. Having her do the research wouldn't work. I'd have to bring the research to her. I'll look into how Greenspan's fucked up housing markets.
4. Again, I don't think she's going to go that far, at least not now. I'm looking for more quips, zingers, and indisputable facts to bring her image of Republicans DOWN.
5. I'll do some looking into it.

Muchas gracias. This was more along the lines of the posts I was looking for.

[belpejic]

60. More pointless advice

So she's hot and you love her. Plus she's smart and worldly. So bone up on the facts. They're all available, either for free on the net or for charge in the bookstore. Find out where you think she's most misinformed, and make yourself an extremely educated person on the topic(s). If she's reasonable she'll come around. Plus you know that you'll be able to get hundreds of research suggestions from the nuts here at DU...

[bspence]

81. Yeah, but I'm lazy. Hence the DU post, looking for others to help.

:)

[...of J.Temperance]

93. You better be careful about using words like the fourth to last you have

I mean you have 23 posts...and I liked your response in my Pennsylvania and Tennessee Senate seats thread.

So this is just a bit of friendly advice to you...as I can't PM it to you.

It's the fourth word back, in your last sentence. I know that you meant it in a jovial way, so perhaps next time you could put like a :) after such a word or something, just in case somebody gets the wrong idea.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error.

[FreedomAngel82]

133. You might could get her

to listen or read some more moderate democratic books. See if she'd like Stephanie Miller's show. She's lighthearted and gives you facts and things like that. I love the show. Also, see if she'd like the Majority Report or Al Franken and some other progressives out there. You'd know since you know her better. From what you've said she sounds like my dad. He's a republican but we voted for the same person for mayor. I don't know where he's at on the war or other issues since we don't really talk politics unless we're around my grandmother (his mom) and his sister. As far as I know I'm the only liberal in my family but my aunt is cool with me as a liberal and doesn't bash or make fun or anything like that and she's more conservative than me. Even my own grandmother (dad's mom) is now doubting Bush from all his lying and she voted for him twice and around the Katrina disastor was still supporting him. There are good republicans out there who have just been believing too much of the "news." It's up to us to talk to them. Figure out each person and their struggles and use that to convience them why they should vote democratic. Did they lose their job? Tell them why. Are they uncomfortable with the spying? See if they'd vote democratic to get Bush for it. Do they not like how the SCOTUS is going more rightwing with religion? I mean there's so much you could do to show someone how wrong they are and to get them to vote democratic. As I said each person is different. Google for Bush's 2006 budget cut plans and show her what he's planning on cutting. Show how the republicans won't raise minimum wadge but they did their wadges. Show how much companies like Haliburton have gained since the "war" in Iraq has begun. There's a lot you could do. Just figure out her buttons. I really don't like telling someone else they should dump another person. I'm liking someone who I think is a republican. :blush: So I'm in no position to say. Of course right now it's basically physical attraction. Heh heh.

[...of J.Temperance]

80. Hey I'm a Centrist Democrat and DU scares me quite often

But by and large we all get along...and I do have some other Centrist Democrats as well here, so I stay!

[FSogol]

25. Dump her. Getting laid isn't worth putting up with this crap.

You can do better.

[Walt Starr]

26. Tell her" I'm through with you, good bye."

That's what I'd do in your situation, anyway.

[johnnypneumatic]

32. tell her republicans have eliminated the middle class

to give handouts to the Iraqi poor (in the form of a $300billion war) and balance it out had to give tax cuts and welfare to the rich and corporations. There just wasnt any left for the middle class. If you are not rich enough to afford the housing, then you ARE the poor. Besides, if she works for a living, she is one of the poor.

[Catherine Vincent]

34. Tell her to take her middle class ass over to a high class neighborhood

..and live there. And make sure she doesn't ask you for any money to buy food since most of her money will go for rent. Or she could rent the place she can afford as long as it's safe and STFU. :)

[MadisonProgressive]

37. DOH! I was hoping you needed someone for a threesome

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadisonProgressive]

69. Liberal=slut Conservative=prude

[MemphisTiger]

38. Ask her how this GREAT Bush economy is workin' for her

That should shut her up, then leave her. If she is a mega wing-nut, it will be a long life if misery together.

[quisp]

39. Does she really WANT to live in Section 8 housing?

I thought she grew up poor. I'd ask her why she has no compassion. I'd be willing to bet that the people who live in the house she wanted to buy would be more than happy to switch places with her. She should count her blessings and stop "playing the blame game."

Why doesn't she buy a house in Baltimore and commute? I did that when I lived up there.

[bspence]

47. But it's the only thing available

SW is being gentrified to the point where even that's too expensive. It's insane.

My condo in Arlington went up $100K in the year that I've been there. It's crazy.

[spooky3]

59. why is this the Democrats' fault? why isn't she asking what

Republicans have done for her? They've had all the power since 2000, when your condo escalated in value.

I live in the area too and I know it is insane, and I don't think prices will come down. If she's really simply upset about this reality (and not in finding someone to blame) then a different, problem-solving response is needed. She's either going to need to find a roommate she can live with for several years or she's going to need to commute a longer distance.

[Totally Committed]

44. Get a new girlfriend. n/t

TC

[melissinha]

49. stop the generalizations

everyone...first of all bspence's girlfriend is guilty of over-generalizing the poor of DC, underestimating what the Democratic party does for the middle class... but many of you are lumping this girl in with the classic freeper, equally unfair.

I agree with zalinda, point out what is really affecting the middle class and what has influenced the poor class.

I can tell you that I knew of two ladies named Wanda one Puerto Rican and one African American, both went on Welfare... for two months, both used Welfare to get out of a tough spot. Thats why I endorse Welfare, not that there isn't a lot of abuse, but I would only trust Progressive Democrats to reform it... I also know that unelployment is very helpful... my father was laid off for office politics and was laid off for 2 years, he got jobs here and there to keep the unemployment... but he is WAY over qualified for minimum wage jobs (a BA and BS adn years as a professional process engineer)and no one trusted he'd stay with them... it helped keep my parents afloat. It was a godsend, but there was a lot of red tape that he had to get through.

I say bpsence, keep the girlfriend, you are obviously not willing to let her go and seem to have a little hope that she's not an over-board freeper. But let her know that politics and Congress in general is a pretty mangled mess of contradictions and special interests.

Kick out the tenant, if you are absolutely certain he went to Jamaica with his rent money, he's going to have no means to justify that you as the landlord are being unduly hard. You have the right to financial solvency and need a tenant that can pay the rent. Let the girlfriend live in the house.... save up her money and then you can live happily ever after with little liberal babies.

[bspence]

62. THANKS

You understand! She's not a freeper at all. I have two older brothers that are way more right wing than she is, and I love them too.

As far as the tenant goes, I was illustrating a point. There are laws that protect people from being evicted, no matter how blatantly they're taking advantage of the situation. I can't throw him out unless the weather gets above freezing. We've been to court about this. I'm sure this guy can find somewhere else to go (hell's warm :evilgrin: ). I'm now in the tenuous position of having to pay two mortgages, putting myself at risk of going to the poor house.

[melissinha]

66. best of luck

I think there's a difference between freepers who continuously try to legitimize their support of the BUSHCo regime and the many americans who just believe their BS. She's the latter.

Sorry about the tenant, best of luck with getting him out. Spring can't come too soon for you. I know that you will be more discerning when deciding on future tenants. ;)

[smoogatz]

50. If low-income housing is all she can afford...

...what makes her think she's middle class? Hmmm? If she's really such a free-market Republican go-getter, she should quit bitching and go out and make enough money to buy a decent place. In this economy, only lazy and stupid people are poor. If she's as hot as all that, DC has a number of excellent strip clubs where she could earn plenty of extra cash (much of it tax-free, which should warm the cockles of her little rightwing heart). Tell her to get off her lazy ass and get to work.

[bspence]

67. Uh, she does work, and she makes nearly $50K a year

I think that qualifies her as middle class. I never said she was a crazy free-market Republican go-getter. She's barely Republican. But when you make $50K, you would think that housing would be a possibility. Sadly, in DC, it's not.

She was speaking out of frustration and ignorance over the real political landscape, not some rabid right-wing ideological mentality.

[...of J.Temperance]

82. Does she have to live in DC?

I mean couldn't she try and get a more affordable property in say Maryland for example, and commute to DC instead?

[smoogatz]

85. Hey, you asked for zingers and I gave you some.

Blaming the Democrats and the poor because she can't keep up with the housing market sounds pretty rabid to me. The problem here is not Democrats, the poor, or the housing market--it's her crappy little income. She wants to buy a house/condo/apartment in DC on $50k? You're kidding, right? She'd be lucky if she could afford a doublewide in Morgantown on $50k. Middle class compared to what? Anacostia? She needs to take a little personal responsibility for her situation, invest in some lingerie and a Brazilian wax, and get her ass down to M Street (or K Street--same skill set required, if you ask me).

But seriously--she should wait a few years. The D.C. market is one of the most expensive in the country. As interest rates rise, housing prices will gradually peak, level off, and then come down. This is a terrible time to try to buy in unless you've got wads of cash to burn. Even if prices fall dramatically (which they won't), $50k/year isn't going to buy much of a place. I have friends in NY who make four times that who can't afford to buy anything closer than Queens. Queens!

[tkmorris]

90. Holy crap, that's funny.

She needs to take a little personal responsibility for her situation, invest in some lingerie and a Brazilian wax, and get her ass down to M Street (or K Street--same skill set required, if you ask me).

That's hilarious and too true. They get paid a good deal better on K street to be sure but it's essentially the same service.:evilgrin:

[bspence]

91. Zingers, not rude comments

[smoogatz]

94. A zinger, by definition, is a sharp-tongued joke at someone's expense.

You apparently wanted polite liberal platitudes.

[tkmorris]

89. Just under 50k in Wash DC

is NOT middle class. Maybe lower middle class at best.

When I lived in that area (most of my life) an income in that range meant you needed to live further out from the city and commute, assuming she works there.

BTW finding housing in a large city is always like this. There is a shortage, and the demand is higher than elsewhere, thus driving prices higher. You can live in housing that is below the standards to be found outside the city while paying the same price (if you can find it) or you can live outside the city.

[ddeclue]

52. How about this one...

You can tell her that I am an engineer and I make 90K a year now... under Clinton I went from making 25K a year to making 125Ka year just as he was leaving office. Under Bush and his "tax cuts" and Bush's "wonderful" economy I've gone from making 125 a year to making 90K a year.

Tell her I'd gladly give back the 4K worth of tax cuts I've received under Bush to get back to the Clinton economy and my former salary.

Oh and in addition to the 35K a year salary cut, you can add about 6 months of cumulative unemployment since Bush has been in office in the last 5 years. Under Clinton it was a total of maybe 3 months in 8 years.

And this is just my "middle class" economic reasons for not liking the Bush administration and it's not just me, I know a lot of engineers and computer programmers who have been through exactly the same problems as I just described.

I have a lot of more important non economic reasons as well but this seems to be an economy based thread.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[No Exit]

55. The rich always require much, much, much bigger handouts.

The poor... well, I worked in a food stamp office in Lousiana once. It was there that I came to realize that the "welfare" was not the pittance that was being given to the "clients"--it was not the tiny sum of "AFDC" or food stamps that was doled out to the clients. It was, rather, the guaranteed salaries, with guaranteed modest raises, and guaranteed cradle-to-grave benefits, and guaranteed pension, which were given to the WORKERS. The WORKERS were the real recipients of the "welfare". Because the workers could get away with leaving at 3 p.m. when the office's official closing time was at 4:30, and the workers took daily 2-hour lunches, and the workers (make that a supervisor, in this case) could get away with calling in sick every day for a week while on a skiing trip. All these things were done, and not one person that I saw was ever fired for doing them. You should've seen those cars ripping out of the parking lot around 3-3:30. I saw these things, day after day, with my own eyes. And these people never had to worry about losing their jobs. Now THAT'S a freebie.

BTW, I am NOT asserting that these welfare and food stamp agency employees are "the rich". When I spoke of "the rich" in the tagline, I was referring to types like Abramoff and oil companies and such.

[Bridget Burke]

104. Move to Texas.

Most Social Services jobs have been privatized and/or outsourced. No more good jobs for anyone.

[No Exit]

135. Wouldn't you just know that that would happen in Texas.

Well, I don't need to move there. I long ago quit working for any government agency and now work just for myself. So I buy my own medical insurance, and have no guaranteed pension (just put money in retirement accounts when I can), and don't get paid leave, etc.

Incidentally, I don't mind buying my own medical insurance, but it would help if there was more of it to choose from in this cursed red state I live in. But the insurance industry, particularly the greedy Blue Cross bastards, owns this state. We have had no health problems (knock on wood), so one would think we'd find it easy to get affordable medical insurance. But actually, the only way the premiums are even able to be paid is to have a deductible of $9000.

Conclusion: republicans and their policies suck dog dicks and I hate them and I plan to vote against them every chance I get, in perpetuity. PS I also wish they would all die.

Sorry for the stark terms in which I express it, but that's my opinion.

[MadHound]

58. Give her a project to complete

Specifically have her go back for the past twenty five years and look at how much, in dollar terms, that has been given to the poor, in direct handouts, low interest loans,etc. Then have her compare that to the handouts given to the rich in the form of tax breaks, grants, etc. etc. Also have her compare the amount of federal money that has gone into corporate welfare vs the amount spent on individual welfare(hint, welfare programs for the poor take up a mere 0.8% of the federal budget).

Make her do this, for if you do it she will not be as accepting of it as if she does her own research. If she is a republican merely due to habit, then this should snap her out of it. I know many people who were like that, grew up republican and simply coasted by on those worn out talking points that they had heard all of their life. However when presented with irrefutable facts they came around quick.

[quiet.american]

61. How have Democrats screwed the middle class?

I'd be interested to know her answer. You can bet all those developers and realtors in DC who are pricing her out of the market are dyed-in-the-wool-Bush-thousand-dollar-a-plate-dinners-Ranger-Pioneer-fundraising-haves-and-have-mores who are not the least bit interested in building affordable housing for the middle class, but only in constructing more and more luxury apartment buildings as fast as they can go up. Democrats are constantly putting forth legislation in one form or another to create more affordable housing for the middle class -- legislation, needless to say, that never sees the light of day under a Republican-controlled Congress.

Since she feels so strongly about being a Republican, she needs to stop complaining and get on with getting herself on the "have more" side of things, so that she will then be able to afford living in luxury amongst her Republican brethren.

[bspence]

84. I don't think she believes Dems are screwing the middle class

I think she believes that Dems are ignoring the middle class to give handouts to the poor. Middle class folk are getting taxed so the poor people can benefit.

I'm definitely not saying I agree, but I think that's her point.

[quiet.american]

100. "If you want to live like a Republican, you've got to vote Democrat."

-- as the saying goes.

Republicans grant tax relief to the wealthiest of the wealthiest, while the cost of living and taxes increase for the middle class. And the pound of flesh demanded of the middle class certainly isn't going into programs for the poor -- those are being slashed left and right. Where's the money going? Corporate welfare -- Halliburton & KBR, to name just a few.

I've had similar conversations with Republican acquaintances. I've said, look, I'm surprised you're complaining. Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and do whatever it takes to get what you want. That's the Republican way, isn't it? Or, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. If you think the poor are living large courtesy of the government, give up everything you own and join their ranks -- problem solved.

[CBHagman]

161. The Democrats don't control Congress or the White House.

And DC doesn't have a vote in Congress. The Clinton plan (in 1994, I think) passed by one vote and raised taxes on top earners, not the middle class. The GOP have controlled Congress for 10 years and passed several rounds of tax cuts, again going primariy to the top earners.

And the secretary of the Treasuy, John Snow, just was saying that we needed to raise the debt limit or the federal government would run out of cash.

Not a Dem in sight on any of those actions or policies, so I can't imagine what she's talking about.

[leftofthedial]

70. she sounds suitably stupid

so use her for sex while you find a better relationship partner

whatever you do, don't breed with her

[MindPilot]

73. Give her a copy of "A day in the life of Joe Republican."

If that doesn't change her mind, then...to the curb. If someone is not aligned with you on the big four, children, politics, religion and finances, you cannot have a relationship with that person. She is never going to be anymore than booty call. Advice from an old guy.

[bspence]

87. Booty calls are fine

We've only been dating for three months. Last night was the first time she really disagreed with me on politics. If it doesn't work out, that's fine, but I like her a lot, and I want to see if there's the heart of a liberal in there somewhere.

[...of J.Temperance]

98. Three months? Jaysus, the way you've been going on I thought you'd

Been with the girl for years!! I'd have to say that after three months...you said that the main thing you like her for is the sex...so if it's only three months that you've been together...she's a flash in the pan, as such you'll get the sex out of your system in about another two months, then realize that you and her have zilch in common...and you'll move on.

As someone said 50k a year is not middle class in DC. If she can't afford to live in DC then she can't afford to live in DC...she's going to have to look and see if she can find something that's within her price range in Maryland and then commute to DC for work.

[BlueIris]

142. "We've only been dating for three months." Oh, bspence...

there's still a chance for you to get out of this situation with your sanity and self-respect intact.

"I want to see if there's the heart of a liberal in there somewhere."

Trust me, b, if it is there, it's piled beneath a gigantic blanket of denial, ignorance and fear. You cannot "fix" that. You cannot force her to change, see things differently, consider reform. I really doubt that even after years and years, you could inspire her to think rationally, let alone feel compassion for other human beings. PLEASE get out now. You can't communicate with something that isn't capable of understanding what you are trying to tell it.

[warrens]

77. Tell her if the worst thing Dems do is provide housing for the poor

Why is she still a Repuke, who killed a hundred thousand innocent people, lie us into war, turned over trillions to the rich which we and our kids will have to pay off, etc.

The subsidized housing is not free-market, and if she wants to live in a city with no restaurants, no dry cleaners, no banks, no nothing, then let them get rid of housing for the poor and see who will do the work that makes a city habitable. Unless she thinks the lobbyists on K St., who have pushed the price of housing into the stratosphere, are going to serve her tacos and tapas.

Tell her there are plenty of affordable houses in DC. Just not in any neighborhood that she would ever live in.

[bspence]

88. She doesn't like most republican leaders

But she doesn't see anything in Dems that would make her switch.

If you were a single attractive young woman, you wouldn't move into a bad neighborhood either.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Well she grew up a Republican

she took this in her mother's milk as it were... I'd say fine, you have to decide, you want to live the rest of your life with somebody you may have nothing in common politically, and cancel each other's votes for the rest of your life? If you have other things in common it might be worth it by the way.

If you want to change her politics, face it, you may not be able to.

I have a friend, he is a hard core Puke, because his father and mother were, and now he is sn admitted freeper. We confuse the living daylights out of him, since we break every mold he thinks is true for Rush and Praeger say it is true... but he will not change, not even if he hits skid row. Why? He has bought the whole thing, line, hook sinker all the way to the elbow, or even shoulder. Never mind his life would be 1000 times better if we had National Health Care... but he still believes they are purely good and wonderful, and liberals are enemies of the state. If we come down to a civil war... he will stay home, while I will die for my believes most likely (typical freeper), but you may be facing the same situation, and unless the economy fully collapses and it is revealed that one of its primary causes was REPUBLICAN mismanagement of the economy and the culture of corruption, you may not be able to change her point of view. It may be too deeply engrained.

You want to try? Have Air America (Franken is good for this) or the Ed Schultz show for her to listen. Hartmann at times works too. Steer away from both Randi and Mallowy for the moment.

[Bridget Burke]

106. Perhaps she's wants you to ask her to move in!

Or--since you seem to be doing OK financially--it's time to Pop the Question!

Since Republicans have had the power for some years now, why does she think Democrats are responsible for her problems?

--From a single woman who was once young (still a bit attractive). Yes, I've lived in bad neighborhoods. I currently live in a good one, but I'm a RENTER!

[Skidmore]

86. Tell her, "If this is in your price range, then you must not be middle

class." It sounds like her parents are middle class, but she's an adult now and she needs to earn her own way in the pecking order, which IS very Republican.

[MN ChimpH8R]

95. I would literally kick her to the curb

I don't care if she looks like Katarina Witt, Kelly Brock and all the James Bond girls rolled into one, I wouldn't be able to get away fast enough.

You can do better than this ignorant bitch.

[Zodiak]

103. wow

using only three examples, you just described your taste in the ladies to a "t"

Maybe it is because I just saw 007 marathons all Christmas break and noticed how similar all "bond girls" are.

[MN ChimpH8R]

107. Not my tastes

Aside from Katarina Witt, who is a personal favorite, I was using commonly defined/recognized "hot babes" for a common point of reference.

My tastes run more to Lucy Liu or Michelle Yeoh.

The OP's girlfriend's politics are unacceptable regardless of how prettily they are packaged.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

97. Beauty fades over time. Rot can stay in the soul forever

She's repeating false talking points to support her situation.
And 50K in this country is not middle class anymore, especiall in the District.
And if she can't see that Republicans have done nothing but screw over everyone but the rich,
you should not bother with her.
I honestly couldn't date anyone who doesn't share my values or beliefs, even if the sex was "hot".

[Uncle Joe]

101. Tell her, you are leaving her for a poor woman,

this will not help your relationship, but it will blow her mind.

[gulliver]

105. Find out if she's right. Nine times out of ten these horror stories ...

... turn out false.

So what you are saying, I think, is that your Republican girlfriend found a place that is designated as low income housing, and she wants to live there. But since her income is too high, she can't get into the place. And there are no places she can buy in DC on what she makes. Seems kind of improbable. Are you sure she did her homework? She might just be sick of looking for places and decided to blame her own failure on the poor and the Dems.

If something is too bad to be true, it usually is. And never underestimate the tendency of people to act like losers and scapegoat. There are lots of examples of Republican samizdat designed to exploit that exact mental weakness.

[otohara]

110. Criminals Like Ken Lay, Skilling Have Hurt Middle Class

Ask all those employees and investors at Enron, Qwest, World Com, etc. What party did these greedy men support?

Dump her - hot or not, she doesn't get it.

[eppur_se_muova]

112. Republican Girlfriend? Advice: tetanus shot. Now what's the question? nt

[AngryAmish]

115. Free clinic

Penicillin helps with some of those things you've caught but some things you will have the rest of your life.

[Beausoir]

116. Don't settle for that kind of stupidity.

You are trying to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed woman.

It could be that inside that pretty package lurk some pretty unappealing values.

[Mr Rabble]

117. Simple.

In the past 5 years the price of real estate has skyrocketed, in large part because investors see that traditional investments are not safe with these thugs in power. Futher, low income housing is a necessary component of any community which is a requirement installed by our government- not just Democrats. She can lay the blame for these policies on the ultra-rich developers who want to turn the entire country into a suburban hell.

Then, why dont you try to name 3 things that Republicans have done for the middle class. She wont be able to do it. Point to the reduction in SSI, unemployment insurance, and on and on. How about the bankruptcy bill? How about the cuts to the VA?

Tell her that just this year the Republicans introduced a bill to eliminate the tax break for mortgage interest.

There is so much available information available from www.google.com that you just need to spend 10 minutes doing research.

[BlueIris]

140. GREAT post.

"Then, why dont you try to name 3 things that Republicans have done for the middle class. She wont be able to do it. Point to the reduction in SSI, unemployment insurance, and on and on. How about the bankruptcy bill? How about the cuts to the VA?

Tell her that just this year the Republicans introduced a bill to eliminate the tax break for mortgage interest.

There is so much available information available from www.google.com that you just need to spend 10 minutes doing research."

Just wanted to re-post because: EXACTLY.

And, seriously, bspence? Google her and see what the engine spits back. I'm actually concerned for your safety a little bit. God knows what you would discover about this person if you did a quick background check.

[USA_1]

118. Remind her that Bush gave $ 4 TRILLION in welfare to the Wealthy!

This should make her despise Republicans.

[Geek_Girl]

119. RUN!

If she can't understand why low income houseing is important, then she's not a very compassionate individual I guess she would rathers see these families living on the street.

[IndianaGreen]

120. Why don't you find yourself a nice Democratic girlfriend?

I sound like my mother saying "why don't you find yourself a nice Jewish boy"! Blecht!

[musical_soul]

155. That's the problem.

Love is blind. We can't help who we fall for.

[spooky3]

121. Article in Saturday WaPo--she may want to wait a few months

Condo market is softening.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/30/AR2005123001481.html

[patrioticliberal]

122. Obviously, don't listen to some of the advice here

That's my first piece of advice. Kick her to the curb? What a crock of shit.

Just work on her slowly. She will come around. Basically you just need to be able to counter that argument, but don't do it aggressively.

[FreedomAngel82]

123. Show her Bush's 2006 budget cut plans

Show her what they're cutting. Than we'll see who's cutting the poor and middle class.

[zulchzulu]

128. Tell her she is a clueless dumb fuck and cut your losses

She is diseased mentally. Defected, error-prone in the lens of life.

If you want to "nurture" her by trying to make her understand that the World and America is not based on what probably are her tendencies towards the full Repug Package, namely racism, homophobia and blind jingoism, go torture yourself.

Otherwise, unless she is a slut with the mouth of a whore that you can use until she becomes tiresome, drag her into the trash can and get rid of the trash...

Life's too short to have to deal with such scum.

[jillan]

136. Get a new girlfriend before it's too late

I married a Republican - 25 years ago, 2 kids later.
Politics was not a major issue back then. Never even discussed it while we were dating. Omg - it is a huge issue now. My 16 year old said to me that she is so thankful she will be out of the house before the next Presidential election.
Republicans and Democrats have a different way of looking at things. It is more than politics, it is personality.
I am telling you this because I live it everyday. Beware of getting involved with one of them. They listen to Rush. They are scary. I'm sure you can meet a nice, democrat in DC.

[twenty4blackbirds]

137. I dunno, other people have some good points...

Repubs gave tax break to the wealthiest...so then which income group is providing the money to fund the government?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051230/ts_afp/uspoliticseconomy
The poor don't have enough cash to tax (i.e. give money back to the govt). The task of funding the government then falls to the middle-class...or at least the ones who don't qualify for living-assistance.

Best way of helping middle-class is to tax the wealthy.

icbw.

edit: p.s. just the facts is best...hope she's compassionate to some degree -- compassion required to lead onwards to understanding and empathy...hope she's intelligent to some degree -- intelligence required to lead onwards to choosing personal growth (i.e. changing).

[BlueIris]

138. Someone that ignorant about reality isn't going to hear a "good zinger."

I have no idea why you would want to date a classist, elitist, ignorant asshole. Why waste your time? Why do you think "there's hope"? Just because she "doesn't support the war and doesn't like Bush"? Lots of people don't, doesn't make them worthwhile, decent, humane human beings. How do you know there's hope? She's this much of an asshole already, with the same opportunities you have had to face the facts. Let me tell you from experience: Someone that divorced from accurate facts about the world, facts about government and valid perspectives about society isn't going to come around just because you want her to. You can't change people. People have to be inspired to change their own minds. She hasn't been inspired to do that yet. That transformation is going to require more than just her s.o. wanting that to happen. Personally, I think you should forget about trying to talk her out of her predjudices, and they ARE predjudices, no matter how you'd like to rationalize them, ('cause..."she doesn't see it that way"...please) and ditch that clueless moron on the nearest curb. As someone who is still trying to disinfect myself after three years with a slimy, elitist asshole who had only a passing familiarity with the real world, and often excused his own misogyny, misanthropy and other unacceptable biases with the "we'll, I guess we just don't see eye-to-eye bullshit," let me tell you, the longer you stay in a sexual relationship with a person like...that...the harder it's going to be to regain your self-respect after you finally wake up and have the courage to break this off. I wouldn't bother waiting for her to wake up. Doesn't sound as if she's going to for a long, long time.

[Pushed To The Left]

139. I have a long-time Republican girlfriend

We've had some political wars before(especially 2004!), but that may have been due to other relationship issues spilling over. Things seem to be getting a lot better between us now. What I have found is that it is better to simply tell her why I feel the way I do about political issues rather than using debate tactics.

It looks like your girlfriend is actually pretty moderate. If she is anti-war and anti-Bush, then she opposes two of the things that the current Republican party is pretty much built around! The best way for her to show her disapproval of Bush's job performance and the Iraq War would be to vote Democratic! It's good to find common ground. For example, my girlfriend supports universal health care, opposes unfair labor practices, supports medical marijuana, opposes sodomy laws, and supports stem cell research. She wants to see Brokeback Mountain (we might see it this weekend), and wants to see Michael Moore's expose on the health care industry when it comes out.

[banana republican]

141. leave her

pregenant; bare foot; and slaving over a hot stove..

[0007]

146. I'd dump this bitch in a NY second

Ask her if she ever cheated on her in-come tax?

[goddess40]

147. it took 15 years to convert my husband

do you really want to invest that much time in someone who's base beliefs are opposed to yours? Although she sounds like she's a little farther along than my husband was when I started. (Actually it was more his involvement in the union than anything I did)

I think the tax cuts for the rich are the number one proof of the attack on the middle class - who does she think is going to pay off the huge debt the Republicans are building? Dems may be tax and spend (although Clinton did build a huge surplus and most Americans were doing ok financially) but Reps are plunder (or you could us the word borrow) and spend.

[mwb970]

148. I'd say dump her ASAP.

It can't work out, man. Couples who agree on political issues have a hard time staying together. This relationship is obviously doomed.

Life is short. Move on.

[Doctor_J]

149. I could never live with a Repub

they basically fall into two categories: 1) brainwashed, and 2) evil. Neither one would create a livable arrangement for me.

[musical_soul]

154. Middle class.

Bring up that some of Bush's policies hurt the middle class more than anybody else.

You need to try to get it across to her that the middle class and the poor are not enemies.

If you can't change her mind, you need to either accept her for what she is or move on. Don't get your heart set on changing somebody. It doesn't hardly work.

[CBHagman]

158. I live in the DC area and am priced out of the housing market.

I should note that I am firmly in the middle class and have been working six days a week (at two different jobs) for literally years and can't afford to buy in the neighborhood where I am renting now. On edit: During the Clinton years, I looked at prospective properties and possibly could have bought something but elected to save up. During the Bush years I have been completely priced out of the market. The last time I looked was in September 2001, if that tells you anything.

It's pretty hard to summon pity, though, for the middle class when so many people earn so little here and are struggling to survive. There's long been a high poverty rate in the District.

Programs championed by the Democrats -- Medicare, Social Security, college loans, etc. -- benefit the middle class. Note, too, that the tax cuts trumpeted by the GOP went primarily to the top 1 percent of income earners -- and that the GOP hasn't fixed the Alternative Minimum Tax, which was designed to prevent the wealthy from avoiding taxes and instead has, for complex reasons, wound up affecting middle-income earners.

Note too that the GOP is sinking us deeper into debt, and the dramatic debt is going to affect all of us, sooner or later, including people at the middle and bottom of the totem poll.

Frankly, it sounds as though she's just indulging in bashing the poor, not with reality. I can't imagine why you'd want to see her.

[CBHagman]

159. What's between her ears matters more than...

...you know what.

By the way, I have a co-worker who talks in the same fashion and has done for years. Her personality is not particularly pretty.

[KingFlorez]

160. Doesn't seem to smart

She ought to know it's Republican ideas that have driven the Housing market up. Low income housing has nothing to do with it.

[imlost]

162. two bad words: Alan Greenspan

Mr. Greenspan kept interest rates low way too long through the tech bust. The economy should have corrected itself at the turn of the century, but he and those in charge didn't have the stomach for a real and necessary recession. Keeping interest rates low propped up the economy, as some economists (e.g., Krugman) predicted he would turn to a housing bubble to bail boomers out from the stock bubble, which ate their retirement money. People were able to cashout refinance and "contribute" to our economy, by buying a brand new TV or SUV or putting it towards a second home, even as they couldn't afford to maintain their accustomed standard of living.

Low interest rates allowed the average middle class family to think they were doing well while in actuality building and extracting the equity of a house of cards.

There's a good explanation of the housing bubble (yes, Virginia, there is such a beast) on an economic site, www.cepr.net, and some pertinent nationwide articles come up daily at www.housingbubble2.blogspot.com.

Present Repubs are neocons, and not at all fiscally conservative. Cut taxes, raise spending, burn the candle at both ends. Something's gotta give. Money printing has been growing at a ferocious pace. Some have pegged the national debt growth of the past five years at 40% of all previous debt.

The great unwashed masses have had the wool pulled over their economic eyes for so long, one wonders if/when they'll finally figure it out, and what then...

[JI7]

163. "Many poor people in this area know how to work the system"

that's a bunch of crap.

and she needs to face the fact that she is poor also if the only thing she can afford is in the poor area.

[USA_1]

164. and, of course, the rich know how to work the system better ...

thanks to corporate welfare giver Republican Bush