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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:51 AM
Original message
Best Photo of the Night --->>>






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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
1.  wow. n/t
n/t
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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. How did Kerry control himself to keep from throwing up on the spot?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Bush, you're toast and you know it. Good luck in Belize" n/t
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. "Checkmate, you rat bastard!"
Peace.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I know there is some intense handshake battle going on there
They look like they could kill each other, and I can't even see Kerry's face.
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kedrys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Crushing your hand just before I
CRUSH YOUR HEAD, you little drunken frat bitch!"

--John Kerry :P
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JusticeForAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thank you for reminding me
how strong John Kerry's handshake is!

It was my favorite moment from a very long, tiring year!
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kedrys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Look closely: that's unmitigated fear in *'s eyes
He knows he's toast. :woohoo:
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. bush looks like a spurred up cock ready to land on his opponent.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. he looks like a hostile prick
he just can't hide it
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. "Skull n' Bones forever."
wink-wink-nudge-nudge, secret handshake...
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. There is obviously no fellowship from either side.
Your comment is despicable - Kerry is a decent good person.
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I see nothing in this handshake one way or the other.
Neither of us know Kerry personally. You may be right about him, but your implicit trust in him simply because of the (D) after his name is quite naive.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Well, I know him.
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 12:36 PM by whometense
Personally. Have spent time in his company, as have others on this forum. And you could not be more wrong about him.
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Good for you.
He ran a horrible campaign. If that wasn't deliberate, then I'm even more convinced that he's unfit for the presidency.


SKILLED POLITICIAN: "I voted for the version of the bill that gave aid to Iraq in the form of loans, rather than adding it to the national debt. That's why I voted against President Bush's version of the bill"

KERRY: "I voted for it, before I voted against it."


SKILLED POLITICIAN: "Knowing what I know now about the President's deceptiveness on the point of WMD in the buildup to war, I regret voting for the Iraq War Resolution."

KERRY: "Knowing what I know now, I would STILL vote for the Iraq War Resolution all over again." (And I will make awkward salutes and try to position myself as a war hawk DESPITE my well-known anti-war activities during Vietnam, which wasn't half as fraudulent as Iraq)


SKILLED POLITICIAN: "These Swift Boat allegations are nothing but a pack of absolute lies by a bunch of partisan hacks, most of whom have never even met me, and I demand an immediate apology and retraction, NOW, or I will file a suit for libel."

Kerry: (crickets chirping)



and on and on and on and on.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Nothing like
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 12:56 PM by whometense
a discussion with someone who has a closed mind.

Bye.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Your examples are not correct in the first place
On the SBVT- he did say almost what you wrote - not saying he would sue for libel because as a public figure the bar is very very high. Also their use of affadavids would likely force Kerry to have to go after all of these people pulled in. It would absoluely disrupt his campaign. He put 140 pages of records on his web site. Some of the SBVT gave him glowing fitness reports. His officers also applied to get him the higher clearnce he needed for the job working in the US for the admiral. The Kerry team amassed an enormous amount of proof that the SBVT lied.

He had just explained the funding question in detail to a hecler when a second hecler asked the same question - he answered in shorthand - the Republicans took it and used it. He then explained it a million times and I doubtr their was anyone that didn't understand what he meant.

The Grand Canyon comment was a gaffe. He may have misheard the question. He answered the question far better many many other times.

I doubt many people could go throgh the primary and general election period with as few gatffes. The difference is that the press magnified every Kerry error while ignoring all of Bush's.
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. You may have a point on the second two...
...but Kerry's response to the Swifty Liars was weak and far too late. He should have torn them apart, especially that partisan stalker psycho O'Neill.


But I will admit that the media did not treat the candidates fairly by any stretch.

But Kerry knew that's how it would be going in. So why hire perennial loser Shrum?

Honestly, that campaign made me cringe so many times, it was painful.

When Kerry came out and said "reporting for duty" and gave that sad-sack salute, I didn't buy it, and I was already on his side. WHo would expect gung-ho, hawkish Americans to buy it? He should have just BEEN HIMSELF.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. ProSense has a very nice post detailing Kerry's response
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 02:49 PM by karynnj
to the SBVT. The media opted not to cover Kerry's rebuttal of the SBVT charges at an event before Firefighters. Prosense has pulled together documentation of the many many ways the Kerry team refuted the charges. After reading it, you may reach a different conclusion. Parts of the media were complicit with the SBVT. They gave hours and hours of free time to them and they gave them credibility. They ignored 140 pages of official records. Kerry had glowing fitness reports that spanned the entire time frame. ( Bush had more than a year's worth of records missing. ) Kerry also had a comment on the secret Nixon tapes, where the Nixon people essentially reported back that Kerry was a hero and there was no dirt on him.

It would be like if your high school transcript said you had an A in Algebra and I claimed I sat next to you in high School Algebra (not even proving I went to your school) and I saw you get Cs, then the press asked YOU (not me) to prove you really got that A. (and the transcript wasn't considered proof, nor a note from 9 other kids who can prove they were in class who all say you were the smartest kid in the class.) Kafka anyone?

Here is the link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x2555


His salute was considered ok when he did it.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. LOL, Please, are you in the role of the "supposed" skilled politician
I love monday morning quarterbacks. Always would have done it differently if it was them.
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. If you were Bush on 9-11...
...wouldn't you have scrambled jets the moment you heard that a second plane had hit the towers? Sure you would have. We have no problem Monday-morning quarterbacking that.

So what is so unreasonable about expecting Kerry to a) have a consistent and sensible position on the war, one that is also consistent with the positions he took on Vietnam b) Immediately and forcefully respond and refute any slanderous lies about him or his record c.) Hire the BEST people for his campaign with a track record of WINNING d.) taking care not to give Hannity and Rush inept sound bites that they can run over and over and over to reinforce his image as a "flip-flopper"?


Kerry has continued to make apparent flip-flops, even after the campaign "Ohio was stolen, no it wasn't". It really does seem to be a problem with him
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. I think that Kerry himself might agree with some of this
Edited on Wed Feb-01-06 03:58 PM by karynnj
he didn't run a perfect race.

On a) I don't think his position on Iraq should be the same as his Vietnam one, because the situation is different. Part of the confusion is that in 2004, he had to say what he would do inheriting a situation he didn't want, but which were the cards dealt. His positions form Sept 2004 (NYU speech) and Jan 2005 were almost identical, and boiled down to stabalize things, do the diplomacy and then get out. His Oct 2005 plan has the same goals but recognized the worsening situation. In Vietnam, Kerry (and others) saw that no matter how long we stayed the end result would be the same. Here, what Kerry is trying to do is to push things in the direction of a government that gave some rights to the Sunni minority that would not be an Iran clone. The Arab league plan that was talked about in (I think)November or December is a glimmer of hope on this.

b) see thread referenced in earlier post - he did. At this point, Kerry's response is a moot point. The importance is that the Republicans had nothing on Kerry (other than his 1971 portesting - but Kerry wasn't a hippy freak breaking the law, he was a war hero politely and intelligently speaking to an impressed Congress) but they used their echo chamber and a biased media to turn a small number of ad dollars into a torrent of slime. I am not knocking Hillary when I protest Hillary people saying, "no one can swiftboat a Clinton", the reality is that they will take something even if already explained (cattle futures) or makeup something(??) and do the same thing.

c) There are a small number of people who have won national elections. The Clinton people won in a 3 way race with a powerful 3rd candidate slamming the president then being painted as a lunatic, with a President at a less than 40% approval rate, and with a candidate who is a natural politician. Most of their advice was either wrong or against Kerry's values - they said to push economic issues and in the last weeks of the campaign that Kerry should back all the anti-gay amendments. (Note doing the latter WOULD violate your point d) and would be in contrast to his whole career (He was one of first to mention gay rights in a Senate speech, he spoke for gays in the millitary when Clinton was pushing that even agreeing to be sworn in to testify in the Senate, he voted against DOMA). The Gore campaign was poorly run.

The campaign before that was Dukakis's which Susan Estrich ran. She is now at Fox news. She ran an extremely awful campaign and annoyed many people. She wrote a flattering peice about John and Teresa in early 2004 and mainly trashed him after that (likely because he didn't want her anywhere near his campaign.) She now has a book pushing Hillary that trashes him and every other potential 2008 candidate.

Before that you have Mondale's 1984 and Carter's 1980 campaigns. Point there is not a huge pool of people who have experience on running campaigns and one size does not fit all.

Cahill was from Kennedy's staff and he knew her since before he was a Senator. She was brought in when his campaign was dead in the water and helped him run the primaries. All in all, considering that the party was a disaster at the state level (as Dean as confirmed), the President used fake terror warnings, the voting system itself was broken, the President illegally used churches including some from Kerry's faith, the campaign finance law had an unintended fluke in it that hurt the non-incumbent who by tradition have the earlier convention all worked against them. It was remarkable that with all this, he did as well as he did. (likely it was his performance at the debates)

If he ran again, the Kerry Massachusetts team, including his brother and former brotehr in law that had no experience in 2004, may be the people he would depend on. They know him, love him and have been intensely loyal to him for about 25 years.

d) flip flop - I'm sure as soon as Kerry said it he regretted it - he was out speaking 12+ hours a day. He had explained his reasons in detail to a heckler. In hind sight the moment a second heckler asks the question again, Kerry should have simply said "I've answered that, new question." In a way, it was his good manners coupled with impatience with having to re-answer the question that caught him. It was unfortunate BUT the fact that the media immediately jumped on it and repeated it enough to give it credibility. Remember that Bush on one of the morning shows said that the war on terror was not winnable. This was a huge deviation from his position. This was a one day blip. Bush mentioned a national sales tax could replace the income tax. Again, the administration said essentially, "just kidding". A half a day blip.

There will always be misstatements when you speak as much as a candidate does (or as seen today a busy Senator). What needs to happen is for things to be corrected as soon as possible. There is no candidate who - in the current environment - who won't say something wrong.


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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Good points all.
And food for thought.

Thanks for that.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Unless Kerry's entire life is a lie his values and Bush's are
180 degrees apart. I trust people when I see a match between what they say and what they do. John Kerry has been a public figure since the 70s, there is nothing I have ever read him or heard him say that I can from the record categorize as a lie. (That said I doubt he (or any one) has never lied - but it is clearly not a problem here.) That many long term friends mention his honesty and intregity almost immediately in describing him is significant. You Expect friends of a famous people to same good things, what's meaningful is which good things.

It's pretty clear to me that unless Kerry is an Oscar calibar actor he really dislikes George Bush. Having seen him only once in NJ last September, his obvious disgust and saddness with how poorly Bush was dealing with the Katrina problems was very obvious.


Also, There's Teresa. As you will say I don't know her. But I am certain that a person with the values she has shown for her entire life would not marry the type of person he would have to be if he were a secret Bush buddy. However, it is very easy to see hwo a person like her would fall in love with the type of person all Kerry's friends say he is.
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. My Bush-buddy cracks are half-facetious.
In reality, I would be somewhat surprised if it were shown that Kerry really was a Skull-n-Bones ringer.

But that being said, the amazing ineptness with which his 2004 campaign was run almost inevitably makes a person suspect that there might be something there. Bob Shrum? Mary Beth Cahill?

As I posted on another thread:

He ran a horrible campaign. If that wasn't deliberate, then I'm even more convinced that he's unfit for the presidency.


SKILLED POLITICIAN: "I voted for the version of the bill that gave aid to Iraq in the form of loans, rather than adding it to the national debt. That's why I voted against President Bush's version of the bill"

KERRY: "I voted for it, before I voted against it."


SKILLED POLITICIAN: "Knowing what I know now about the President's deceptiveness on the point of WMD in the buildup to war, I regret voting for the Iraq War Resolution."

KERRY: "Knowing what I know now, I would STILL vote for the Iraq War Resolution all over again." (And I will make awkward salutes and try to position myself as a war hawk DESPITE my well-known anti-war activities during Vietnam, which wasn't half as fraudulent as Iraq)


SKILLED POLITICIAN: "These Swift Boat allegations are nothing but a pack of absolute lies by a bunch of partisan hacks, most of whom have never even met me, and I demand an immediate apology and retraction, NOW, or I will file a suit for libel."

Kerry: (crickets chirping)



and on and on and on and on.




He may indeed be a nice man, but if he chokes in a campaign as CRUCIAL as 2004 was, he is useless in a national campaign.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. I know him too.
And your silly little insinuations are so full of shit that it's comical.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. Oh good god. "SKULL AND BOOONEZ"
Do you play Dungeons and Dragons too? Were they wearing their druid robes and sharing a pewter chalice filled with goat's blood?

That old Blaque Majique is SO outdated.

Let me guess, you believe in Leprechauns too?

:eyes:
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Also look at the distance between them
From many things it's obvious that Kerry absolutely hates so much that Bush has done - what's clear is that Bush really wants to be far away from Kerry.
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I think there was a row of seats between them nt
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. * is the one forced to lean forward, and in an awkward position.
I'd say Kerry definitely won that one.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. You can see it in the
set of JK's jaw. Contained fury.
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Not_So_Right_Wing Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. I hope Kerry washed his hands.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. You know, to me it looks like Bush is reaching out asking for help.n/t.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. He's probably asking for crack cocaine.
He'll need to ask Rove for that, though. Rumor has it, KKKarl is the "Keeper of the Vial."
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-01-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. The REAL President and the Pretender.
:grr:

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