Canadian Health Care Question

[Joz]

Lots of people talk it up and how great it is, but I've talked to a few canadians that critisize it because of wait times. One woman told me that it was terrible how her friend had to wait for months in order to get a breast exam for a lump. Something about somebody jumping the border just to pay and get treatment in america without waiting? Is there any truth to this? Is it not really that great??

Please no replies about the poor unable to get treatment in america - I know damn well. I'm talking about for middle class citizens.

(Not a freeper/rw troll, just want to get to the bottom of this wait time/list question)

[whododayis]

1. canadian healthcare

the primary care is free and very available. because the country is so large and the population centers to spaced apart (more people live in california than in all of canada, and the top 6 cities, toronto, montreal, vancouver, edmonton, calgary, ottawa comprised almost half of the populace)secondary services and specialists aren't nearly as accessable as they should be, thus the demand exceeds the supply, ergo the most immediate needs are given priority.

[Astrad]

2. There are fairly lengthy wait times for elective surgery

although these are slowly improving as the federal government shifts more dollars back into health care (which is mostly paid for by the provinces). Emergency treatment of any kind is as swift as anywhere in the world. I read a study recently that showed Canada actually does better than the US in terms of wait times. Recent examples: my brother had appendicitis. As you would expect he was immediately operated on. In the fall my mother was diagnosed as needing a pacemaker and received it in two weeks. Any system that provides immediate access to every kind of medical treatment is going to be one hell of an expensive system.

[depakid]

3. Guess you've not been involved in healthcare much

if you don't think many if not most middle class Americans don't have long waiting times trying to schedule appointments with various kinds of specialists.

I doubt very seriously that the woman who told you about a long waiting time for a mamogram was telling you the truth, because I'm familiar with Health Canada- and I've never heard anything like that.

Moreover, while everyone has something critical to say about the systems in their own countries, Canadian overwhelmingly support (and are generally pleased with) what's in place. Especially compared with their dysfunctional neighbors to the South.

[Yollam]

8. This is true. My son had cranial surgery in 2003...

We had to wait 9 months between deciding to have the surgery and the actual surgery itself. The surgeon and neurologist had a long backlog of patients.

Of course, we were fortunate enough to have one of the best surgeons in the field in the US, at one of the best hospitals, so that may not always be the case.

But there certainly can be long waits for surgery here in the states.

[Warpy]

4. Emergency care is delivered immediately

and most care is delivered in less time than it takes to jump through HMO hoops here in the US. However, some elective procedures do have a waiting period, and some tests, like MRI scans, can be done here in the US, paid for by the national health system (Canada didn't overbuild those overpriced suckers, we did).

I can't imagine a breast tumor biopsy would have a several month waiting period. Perhaps your friend was talking about a routine mammogram. Those are scheduled here in the US, too, and sometimes we have to wait for them.

In any case, I can't believe people are buying that rubbish about the waiting periods. The only people in Canada who seem particularly disturbed by them are their rich people, who just HATE having to wait in some sort of line with the rest of the citizenry.

[Bridget Burke]

5. There's lots of good stuff in this thread....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2433451

A co-worker took early retirement so she could return to Canada. She & her husband were having health problmes. They weren't really poor & had insurance, but expenses were getting out of hand. She'd retained Canadian citizenship for just this reason--she would have LOVED to vote against Bush. (This is a lady I knew well--not a friend of a friend!)

Plenty of insured Americans wait for treatment while their HMO's and/or Insurance Companies wait to be convinced that treatment is necessary. This includes treatment for cancer.

[Joz]

9. Yeah, I saw that one.

Which is what prompted me to put out this more specific one to answer my question. Good points about insured americans waiting due to HMOs/Insurers, by the way.

[enigma000]

6. health care tends to be rationed

in the US its by ability to pay

in Canada its by wait times.

My mother is awaiting a hip replacement. She has been waiting since last summer and has been told to expect surgery in June/July. Considering the pain she is in, that seems to me quite a long wait. She lives in a moderate size city - 650,000 population.

Canadians approve of the Canada Health Act and our medical system, its just been underfunded.

[Joz]

7. Go to rural?

Now another canadian I talked to said that if you don't want to wait, you can go to a hospital in a rural area and there won't be a wait time. Is that possible in your mother's situation? Or do you think he was just talking about for non-elective treatment?

[enigma000]

10. I don't know if they do that sort of surgery elsewhere

I mean over half the population of the province lives there, in Winnipeg. Just a couple of other smaller cities and some farmland. She could go to another province, but medical care is administered provincially, so they have rules about that. And its not like you can fly back after surgery, so she would have to live here during her recovery.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. I was in an HMO when I lived in Portland, and

if I wanted a non-critical doctor visit or procedure, I had to get out my long-range calendar.

Same for an eye exam here in Minneapolis, where I'm in a preferred provider organization.

I've had two experiences with national health systems overseas. One wasyears ago in Holland, when I fell and injured myself. The hotel got us a cab to the emergency room of the nearest hospital, and I was examined and patched up at no charge. On that same trip, my mother got strep throat in Germany, and she was seen by a doctor immediately and given a prescription. I don't remember whether it cost anything or not, but if there was a cost, it wasn't enough to make a dent in our trip budget.

The other was in Japan, when a cut got infected in a particularly ugly way. As a non-resident, I had to pay, but I had no trouble getting seen, and I was directed to come in every day so that the nurses could monitor how the wound was healing.

[Coastie for Truth]

12. Some Serious, Peer Reviewed, JAMA and NEJM Studies

Go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi and enter as your search terms "Woolhandler" and "Himmelstein" and "Canada" - you will get about twenty good, peer reviewed, academic studies doing side-by-side comparisons of US and Canadian health care delivery.

No politics - no spin - just "The Facts"

[Spazito]

13. Rather than my being repetitive, here is a link to a thread that answers

your questions from Canadians as well as others, has very informative links, data, etc.:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2424233