look, the dems didn't lose - all this talk about why the dems can't win is

[donsu]

just talk.

the dems won every election. - but the rigged elections and the criminal media said they didn't.

but it wasn't really the dems that won, it was us that won the elections along with the dems.

us, we - we won them all - the crooks proclaimed we didn't.

we, us are the majority

[JuniorPlankton]

1. That's exactly the problem with the dems

Losing while saying that they won!
From elections (not just Prez) to the filibuster deal to the Patriot act...

:grr:

[seriousstan]

4. WE WON! WE WON!!....don't look at me like I'm nuts.....WEEE WOOONNN!!!!!!

[havocmom]

2. 'DEMs can't win' wink wink, nudge nudge

cuz it has all been arranged their constituency will face obstacle courses to even get into a voting booth. Then there are all those lovely, mailable computers...

[Burning Water]

5. "Then there are all those lovely, mailable computers..."

What's the postage on one of those computers run?:)

[bullimiami]

3. we are but what good will it do us if before the next elections

polls show dems ahead 60-40, exit polls show them winning but the machines say otherwise.

will we just sit and do nothing again? it has happened over and over again and we have just taken it.

[sui generis]

6. yes but

we cannot win clear mandate without a landslide. Our message and candidates have to be that strong, because if they aren't they sure as hell won't be able to clean up anything with bare majority or split house tactics.

We cannot win by not losing. It's not enough.

[Peace Patriot]

7. It's very simple, very fundamental, very easy to understand...

Two far rightwing Bushite corporations counted 80% of the votes in the 2004 election, using "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it--with virtually no audit/recount controls.

You really don't need to know anything else. Our elections are now NON-TRANSPARENT, unverifiable, and controlled by Bushites.

Diebold: CEO (until last month) Wally O'Dell was a Bush/Cheney campaign chair, a Bush "Pioneer" donor, and promised in writing to "deliver" Ohio to Bush/Cheney in 2004.

ES&S: A spinoff of Diebold, originally funded by Howard Ahmanson, a far rightwing nutcase billionaire who also gave one million dollars to the Chalcedon Foundation, which believes in the death penalty for homosexuals. ES&S and Diebold are run by two brothers, the Urosevich's.

These are the people counting our votes in secret.

What do you expect from this? Fairness? Lawfulness? Progressive policy? Common sense? War as a last resort? Honesty? Proper representation of the majority of Americans in Washington DC?

Wake up, friends.

OUR RIGHT TO VOTE = OUR SOVEREIGNTY AS A PEOPLE. No vote, no sovereignty. We are serfs and cannon fodder until we RESTORE OUR RIGHT TO VOTE.

---

(Note1: A lot of Democratic election officials have benefited from the $4 billion that Tom Delay and Bob Ney got Congress to appropriate in order to entirely corrupt our election system under the guise of "reform" (the conversion to electronics); and a lot of Democratic officeholders are afraid both of the Bushites (look what they did to Sec of State Kevin Shelley in Calif--after Shelly sued Diebold, decertified the worst of their election theft machines, and demanded to see their source code!) AND are also afraid of the election officials who now hold too much power and have become much too secretive; also, there are a lot of Dem leaders who like Bush's war and Bush's tax cuts for the rich. All in all, not a very good climate for Dem Party activism against a thoroughly corrupted election SYSTEM.)

(Note2: The war profiteering corporate news monopolies DOCTORED their own exit polls, late on election day, 2004, to force their exit polls (Kerry won) to "FIT" the results of Diebold's and ES&S's secret formulae (Bush won). The news monopolies HID the real exit poll results from the American people and put FALSE NUMBERS on everybody's TV screens that night. Our news monopolies are COMPLICIT in the stolen election, and that is one reason why they have entirely blackholed this extremely important news story.)

---------------

Some resources:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.UScountvotes.org (monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)
Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform the election system)

Also of interest: (Bob Koehler--very bad machines in Ohio, recent)
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

--------------

Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

[Peace Patriot]

8. TRANSPARENT elections would solve many problems INSTANTLY.

For one thing, Republicans would no longer be getting a 5% to 10% automatic advantage in the vote count (easily doable--and they've done it--with these extremely hackable, Bushite controlled machines).

This is NOT to say that the Democrats shouldn't reform their platform and their message and their loss of any understanding of who their constituency is. They SHOULD reform, and start representing the MAJORITY of people in the country. For instance, if Kerry had held an anti-war position, a principled anti-torture position, and had been stronger on issues like universal health care, he would have won bigger than he did. He won by about 5% (if all votes had been counted), which wasn't enough to beat the combined electronic fraud (pre-programmed to about 3%, on average) and the massive Republican officials' suppression of Democratic votes in places like Ohio and Florida. Big progressive votes CAN beat the fraud (as least as it was implemented in 2004).

Although we have some great Democrats--Senators Boxer, Feingold and Kennedy, for instance--these special Democrats carry the burden of representing 60% to 70% of the people in the country. (60% against the war, over 60% against torture "under any circumstances," over 60% anti-Bush on MOST issues, and on Bush himself, over 80% anti-Cheney, and something like 90% against Bush/Cheney's thieving deficit--and these big anti-Bush numbers have hardly changed over two years' time. Some numbers lie (such as the polls they did right around election time showing a close race), but these numbers--numerous polls over time, on many issues--don't lie. This is still a VERY PROGRESSIVE country!)

But I'm convinced that we are NOT going to get good Dem Party representation--real representation of our interests from all of our leaders--until the Dem Party faces this issue of the fraudulent election SYSTEM.

The national SILENCE on this matter is SCREAMING at us.