DINO's Serve A Valuable Purpose

[ruggerson]

While obviously not optimal, in states where otherwise we would have a Republican, where a more aggressive progressive stands no chance, I'd much rather have a DINO than a Republican.

It's called numbers baby. Count 'em.

[Warpy]

1. I used to think that way, but no more

becaus I think an economic populist CAN stand up to a GOP candidate and WIN.

In my book, DINOs are worse than pubbies because they always get our hopes up and then stab us all in the back. They're the ones who have caused all the ill will toward the party out there in workdaday land. They are the reason working folks stay home on election day because they're the ones robbing the working folks of hope for a better future and anything to vote FOR.

Yes, a few DINO place holders can make the difference in a nominal majority and give committee chairs to Democrats. However, if they cast the swing votes with the pubbies (and they always seem to), they undermine all those committee chairs and render them useless.

I'm going to be working against my DINO senator. He's been there long enough, he's got a nice fat pension, and it's time for him to retire. I sincerely hope the local party will come up with an alternative in the primaries, but I hold out little hope.

This particular lesson is taking forever for the party to learn.

[ruggerson]

2. But a majority means committee *control*

which is everything.

If we'd had a majority, Bush would never have sent down ALito, and probably not Roberts either.

If he HAD sent ALito, we would have had another vote on the Judiciary Committee and the nomination could have been killed there.

Numbers mean everything. Far better a DINO or two or three that gives us control of everything than to remain in the minority.

[rwenos]

10. And Control Means the Subpoena Power

If the Democrats controlled the House, they could have subpoenaed Cheney's records of the Petroleum Sell-Out meetings during the transition; the records of the Defense Dept. setting up secret spy agencies; the wiretap records where the Justice Dept. went after Quakers; the electronic chat regarding Joe Wilson and Valerie Flame.

But hey, it's better to congratulate ourselves about how PURE we are over iced mocha cappucchinos at Starbuck's, eh? (By the way, I love Starbucks. It's Stalinists I hate.)

[kath]

23. 2 or 3 DINOs might be tolerable, but NINETEEN fokkin' so-called Dems

voted for cloture with the Alito nomination. There are way, way, way too many chickenshit Dems, and they're killing us.
Agree with previous poster that they cause an incredible amount of harm to the party and keep people from voting Dem (or voting at all).

[Writer]

7. I have a question for you.

If a particular part of a state does not agree, nor would ever vote for, a candidate espousing progressive values, how do you expect a progressive candidate to win over a Republican in that area? Do you think the candidate can just talk them into agreeing with him/her?

[Hippo_Tron]

20. A good candidate can do just that

Bob Kerrey of Nebraska being a perfect example. There's a reason that Kerrey was able to be a fairly liberal senator (considering his constituency) and Ben Nelson is a complete DINO. Kerrey was a Clintonesque politician and Nelson is a no talent loser.

Also remember that most Americans aren't liberal or conservative on anything, leaving a lot of room for them to cross party lines and vote with a candidate because he or she speaks to a particular issue that they really care about.

[...of J.Temperance]

3. I agree with you ruggerson, so I've given your thread a vote n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Surprise, surprise

:eyes:

[...of J.Temperance]

18. Not that I consider the word DINO at all

I would much rather have a Democrat who votes 60% of the time the way I like, than have a Repuke who votes 100% of the time the way that I don't like.

I don't go in for purity tests, nor do I go in for 100% ideological tests with my party or my party's politicians or political candidates.

The Pennsylvania Senate race, I'm pro-Choice and Bob Casey Jr. is pro-Life, I'm a Democrat and Bob Casey Jr. is a Democrat. He and I will agree on many issues, so what am I meant to do, not want Bob Casey Jr. to beat Rick Santorum, just because Bob Casey Jr. is pro-Life and I'm pro-Choice?

Senator Joseph Lieberman, I don't agree with his opinions regarding Iraq. Senator Joseph Lieberman is pro-Choice, he's pro-Minimum Wage, he's pro-Social Security, he's pro-Labor. So what am I meant to do, not want Senator Joseph Lieberman to be re-elected because I don't agree with him on Iraq? This Ned Lamont isn't going to beat Senator Joseph Lieberman.

The word DINO I don't consider at all, a lot of people on DU do consider the word DINO, so for those people I will say that I can think of only two Democrats who would be DINO's according to DU's use of that word and they are Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania. Check their voting records.

[rwenos]

4. Get Real, Children

This debate is SO tired. The purist progressives would rather have a Republican fascist bastard running the country, and Republican fascist bastards protecting him in the House of Representatives, than have some Dem's in office who agree with them on some things (Civil Rights, electoral reform, the rights of labor) but disagree with them about some other things (the defense budget, military affairs, tax policy).

What children are these purists. They can't have the whole cookie, so they throw it in the gutter so no one can have any.

Get real, kids. How does a fascist government REALLY make you feel? Do you LIKE having the fascist bastards wiretapping Quakers? Do you LIKE watching the same fascist bastards trading body bags with Americans in them for oil?

[bvar22]

17. You have your program upside down.

It is the DINOS who would rather have a fascist Republican running the country.
That's why they vote with them so often.
That is why the DLC spends more time and money undermining the REAL Democrats than the Republicans.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic party:


1. 65 percent say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

8. 69 percent believe America is on the wrong track, with only 26 percent saying it's headed in the right direction

[MrTriumph]

5. Baloney. DINOs are a drag on the party.

Hey, living in Texas we've had DINOs for years. Look where it has gotten Democrats in Texas: No statewide office holders. And we have lost both the state senate & house.

By catering to the right-wingers, Democrats have confused their message. And guess what? The candidates with the clear (albeit stupid) messages have been winning elections.

If you encounter a Democrat and that person sounds like a DINO, poke 'em in the eye.

[rwenos]

9. You've Marginalized Yourself

Better than I ever could. You want to be a Lib-Dem, the Brits have that party. The Lib-Dems have never won a national election.

But they're PURE.

[MrTriumph]

24. No, I have provided you with the winning strategy for the Dem. Party

The Rep. Party has won more elections as it has gotten more focused on the agenda of right wingers. The liberals & moderates in the Rep. party have been mostly pushed aside. In fact, here in Texas there is a movement by right wingers to rid the Rep. Party of all but the most conservative office holders. Many "moderates" are facing primary challengers.

The Dem. Party was most popular when progressives held the reigns in the early 30s.

Now is the time for Dem.s to push out the DINOs, tighten the message and discipline Dem. office holders that do not tote the party line as expressed by party activists (not the more moderate Democratic congresspersons).

[pstans]

6. DINO's make Democrats seem wishy-washy

People say that Democrats don't stand for anything because you have turds like Lieberman kissing up to the administration while Murtha and Feingold are talking about withdrawing troops. You don't see many Rethugs voting against what Rove, DeLay, and Cheney want. They vote as one party most of the time. Not sure if the blame for that should be on the DINO's or the Democratic leadership.

[Inland]

8. The caucus counts. For examp[le

If there were a way that I knew a choice was between A a republican who would vote republican and B a democrat who would vote republican in every way except for dem control of the body, B is definitely better.

But I'd still whip em every day of the term. Fair is fair.

[leesa]

11. Nope. Not interested in traitors.

They are the ones responsible for making people think there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. THEY are the ones that make people believe there is no point to voting. THEY are the ones that make people believe BOTH Democrats and Republicans are corrupt and want war. Get rid of these Neanderthals!

[rwenos]

12. "Traitors" is What Ann Coulter Calls Democrats

So I guess you go in for the same wild overstatement. How about "Dissenters" or "moderates"?

Your lack of vocabulary is showing, Mate.

[belpejic]

14. Depends

I'll take a DINO in Nebraska, but not Connecticut. There's no reason to tolerate the latter.

[ruggerson]

16. Isn't that what I wrote? n/t

[radio4progressives]

15. LOL!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::r:rofl:rofl:

Anyone else remember the "Veto Alito" campaign just a few weeks ago?

[...of J.Temperance]

19. Yes and the phoneathon and faxathon that backfired

There are 44 Senate Democrats, so what does that mean that 18 of them are now DINO's?

I didn't want Samuel Alito going to the Supreme Court, thought I'd point that out :)

[Laelth]

21. Perhaps they do serve a purpose.

Perhaps they weaken the Democratic party (by making us look disunified and unprincipled) and enable Republicans by siding with them publically and making true progressives look like some "fringe" element of an otherwise sane (read REPUBLICAN) party.

Sure, they serve a purpose (and I'll admit, a Casey is better than a Santorum), but the purpose they serve may not be ours.

:patriot:

-Laelth


Flame bait thread? I fell for it.

Edit:Laelth--hasty, unchecked post. Corrected.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. The problem with this debate is that we are speaking in absolutes

There this sense on DU that all DLC = bad and that all people who lean right on some issues are bad. How about we do things the old fashioned way and take a look at each candidate that we are considering helping out or voting for and seeing whether we like what they are saying or not.

[Odin2005]

26. Exactly.

I'm not a fan of the DLC to say the least, but to insist on ideological purity in SOCIALLY CONSERVATIVE AREAS is suicide. I have a problem with the DLC when it tries to force moderate canidates on very liberal areas.

[wyldwolf]

25. right. Look what DINOS did in 2000. Gave us Bush

The real DINOS are the ones who threaten to vote third party if their vanity candidate doesn't get the prize.

The real DINOS are the ones who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 and 2004 because, after all, Democrats and Republicans are the same and we need to lose some elections to teach us a lesson.

The real DINOS are the ones who would actively campaign against a Democrat without thinking what the consequence could be.

The real DINOS are the ones who refuse to understand that the Democratic party has always been a big tent with a myriad of ideas and places on the political spectrum.

The real DINOS are the "my way or the highway" crowd.

And these DINOs can be the most liberal or the most conservative among us.