I'm sick of petitions, esp. by politicians

[RazzleDazzle]

And yes, that means John Kerry's, Gov. Richardson's and absolutely anyone else's. Yes, even Conyers'.

Can ANYONE point to a single thing that got done or accomplished or changed as a result of any of them?

[PassingThrough]

1. It often gets them a little TV time to speak about their point. Other then

that..... nothing.

[Selatius]

2. Petitions have no place in the federal government

There's nothing in the Constitution that renders them any power beyond merely a symbolic act.

If you want to study countries where petitions do carry the power of law, look at countries like Switzerland or Venezuela. The Swiss system has been dubbed by some as a semi-direct democracy for the fact that the people themselves, through petitions and referenda, can directly challenge legislative action, recall legislators, and in some cases can bypass the legislature entirely and pass a law directly.

[Trevelyan]

3. How long did it take the Resistance to take down the Nazis?

Even before the US got involved, it was so wrong they kept fighting, whatever the danger.

I like the petitions because no one has ever asked my opinion in a "scientific poll" in 40 years.

I think that it might encourage the "underground" in the Pentagon, the FBI, the CIA, Dod and elsewhere and offers support to Whistleblowers like Sibyl Edmonds and Russell Tice AND THE CONGRESSPERSON who go against Bushco.

No one remembers the name of the Congressman who had a very suspicious death just before bush's effort to steal Social Security. This man was Japanese-American and the Democrats express extreme surprise at his death JUST BEFORE BUSHCO'S power grab against Social Security from a "rare blood disease" that he had for years according to the press BUT if this man was THE MAIN DEMOCRATIC SOCIAL SECURITY EXPERT in Congress, and if Bush had been signalling for quite a while that he was going after Social Security why wouldn't this man have started training someone else. The Dems had his name in a condolence section on their sites, then his name disappeared from the sites and I have been trying to remember it to add to my whistleblower files.

The Dems signed one of the Patriot act reauthorizations last year after the runaway private plane and the hysteria which caused the Secret Service to snatch Nancy Pelosi out of her shoes according to WaPo and the Dems signed over our future in a late night session JUST after the runaway plane.

What was the threat that caused the Dems to betray America a few weeks ago in reauthorizing the "Patriot" Act with only cosmetic changes according to Russ Feingold who was one of the ONLY TWO Dems in Congress who voted against it? If signing your name to a peition gives Congressperson a little protection for their courageous acts, I certainly don't mind.

I think the most important petiton is Rep. Conyers using the Impeach word repeatedly in his Solidarity Citizen Co-Sponsor letter on his site, and this includes THREE BILLS FOR IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY but needs the support of other Dems to get it to the floor which is why DU activism has asked us to write to our Congresspersons ASAP to support Conyers' bill.

Activist HQ
Topic subject DU Activist Corps Action: Impeachment/Out Of Iraq Demonstrations
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x26858#26858
26858, DU Activist Corps Action: Impeachment/Out Of Iraq Demonstrations

http://www.johnconyers.com Conyer's Action Items
http://www.conyersblog.us/

Don't be lazy, don't be evil by inaction, Please sign ASAP!

[RazzleDazzle]

5. You make some good points. However,

to offer something of a counterbalance, my concerns are:

* that they are mere cynical email- and other useful data-gathering tools

and

* they far too easily take the place of action. WE can be somewhat mollified by, "Oh, good, Congressman so-and-so has a petition on this," and feel that we've done some good, and it's all just empty gestures, for the most part.

Symbolic, yes, of course. Which is by definition toothless.

[blondeatlast]

4. I have to agree, though it'll probably be unpopular here.

They scream to me that the offending politico hasn't got the courage of his/her convictions or can't elucidate the point well enough to sell it.

Um, guys/gals in Congress--that's what we elected you for!

OTOH, as long as true liberals are so hard to find, I feel it necessary to support them when I do.

[WildEyedLiberal]

6. Well, John Kerry spoke of his ANWR petition on the Senate floor

This was several months ago when ANWR came up for debate - Kerry had collected 500,000 signatures for his "save ANWR" petition, and when he spoke on the Senate floor, he entered the petition - and all the names - into the Congressional Record, and argued forcefully that half a million concerned Americans in just 48 hours had signed his petition to save ANWR. Ted Stevens threw a SHIT FIT and went ballistic on Kerry about the petition - don't remember what he said, but it was gloriously petty. Accused him of politicizing the issue, hurting Alaskans, said if ANWR didn't pass he'd retire from the Senate, etc.

Kerry also said he would enter the names of those who signed his "No to Alito" petition into the Congressional Record to be enshrined for all time.

Point being, there are at least two instances in which he used the response to his petitions to present the "will of the people" on the Senate floor and shame his colleagues such as Stevens.

[Selatius]

8. Unless petitions carry the force of law, they won't work

These people in power today, frankly, don't give a shit how many signatures there are on a petition. Unless petitions had the power to start a recall of a congress person, pass a law, or suspend an action of the legislature, they will be nothing more than symbolic acts, and we're gonna need a lot more than symbolism when dealing with thugs.

Pissing off people like Stevens feels good, but it won't do a damn thing when they have control of Congress and the courts. Instead of shoving bad laws down our throats, they'll be shoving bad laws down our throats with extreme rage.

[WildEyedLiberal]

10. No, it didn't do anything concrete

But it's not as though he didn't do concrete things as well - ie, mount a filibuster attempt. Yes, it didn't succeed thanks to several chickenshits, but the point is, petitions involve real "ordinary" people and give them an outlet to express their voice, and I think it says a lot when a Senator enters the names of all the people who signed his petition into the public record.

[Selatius]

11. It says a lot, but in the end, it does nothing.

As I said, it's nothing but symbolism when you need concrete answers. You could've had a petition of 5,000,000, and it wouldn't have done a damn thing to the outcome in this example. Petitions have no force of law in the US Constitution, and as a result, it may as well not exist to these thugs because the only thing they respect is power, and petitions have none in our governing system.

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. No, they don't , that's true

But it's also a way of letting a politician know you support them in what they're trying to do. I'm sure it was a comfort to Kerry to know that several hundred thousand people agreed with him that Alito needed filibustered while the Republicans and many Democrats were busy mocking him on TV.

I figure it takes me 5 seconds to sign it and show my support - why not? :shrug:

[radio4progressives]

7. I'm with you... I've actually started to ignore them..

and I'm considering unsubscribe from all party affiliated emailings. it's just a bunch of bull shit - they have you signing on to something of course I agree with (they should already be fighting for)then they want to you send the petition out, (which is how they capture even more email addresses to solicit funds) then they ask for contributions.

I'm tapped out financially, emotionally, and mentally and physically.

I'm looking for something very different now..

the Elito-O filibuster fiasco, the denial there's a raging Civil War in Iraq (that John Murtha spoke about several months ago) now, the attempts to make Domestic Spying ok and legitimatizing it vis a vis the Patriot Act etc, all evil, all complicitely subscribed to by our own party leaders.

and now the awareness that our leadership for DECADES have been selling off our own nations ports to other countries (and multi-nationals) really tells the entire story. We lost our democracy, we lost our republic a long long time ago. The question remains however, is it remotely possible for the people to rise up and say no, not anymore. ?

We're going to have to do this outside of the so called "two party" system - because the two party system has revealed itself to be a complete fraud. Because if it were not a fraud, not only would Cheney have been at least fired five years ago, everyone of these bastards would be serving time right this minute for high crimes and treason. every last one of them, period end of story.

But are the DEMS even attempting to do that NOW, considering all that has transpired in the past week?

Apart from a bunch of worthless petitions, all I hear is silence..

so far.

[Booster]

9. Only thing I can think of is I papered my bedroom with them, other

than that I believe they're useless.