Guess what: we are ALL headed for BANKRUPTCY

[Jeffersons Ghost]

The National Debt is

$8.2 Trillion!

In Fiscal Year 2005, the Republican controlled U.S. Government spent $352 Billion of your money on interest payments to the holders of the National Debt, which included Iraq, Iran and China. Compare that to NASA at $15 Billion, Education at $61 Billion, and Department of Transportation at $56 Billion. For the current FY06, we've already spent $174 billion on interest payments!

Budget Deficit vs. National Debt

Suppose you want to spend more money this month than your income and create a situation called a "budget deficit." To offset the deficit you borrow and must pay interest on the new debt. If next month you lack enough money to cover your spending it creates another deficit, causing you to borrow even more, and you'll still have to pay the interest on the original loan. If you have a deficit every month, you keep borrowing and your debt continues to grow. Soon the interest payment on loans is bigger than any other item in your budget. Eventually, all you can do is pay the interest payment, with no funding for anything else. This situation is known as bankruptcy.

Social Security is not part of the Federal Budget general fund. It is a separate account and has its own source of income. Social Security payments do not go into the general fund, they go in the Social Security trust fund, and should NOT be counted as general revenue. The trust fund is supposed to be used to pay future benefits. But....keep reading....

Currently, there is more coming into Social Security than is being paid out to beneficiaries. What's left over is routinely being spent as if it were general budget revenue. Government agencies using that money promise to pay it back (IOUs). All of the money in the Social Security Trust Fund has been spent! That's part of the National Debt. So Social Security is now just a very large tax collection tool.

[Neil Lisst]

1. Like Dumb & Dumber, they fill the briefcase with IOUs.

Dear Social Security,

This is the Bush way of undermining you in the future.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

2. THANKS FOR THE MUCH NEEDED KICK NEIL

I can tell my threads are good, if you comment or kick them up... Fiscal responsibility is something Republicans used to like talking about a great deal but they're avoiding the issue lately for some reason.

[Cassandra]

3. Can you imagine what a fabulous life I would have if...

I could charge whatever I wanted on a new apartment, furniture, clothes, great meals, etc. without ever expecting to have to pay it back. I could pretend to be incredibly wealthy; as long as the bill never came due.

[Neil Lisst]

4. sure, just call congress, ask them to UP that debt limit, and charge more

Reagan, Bush, and Bush II have proved what a LIE the "conservative" value of balanced budgets is. They have never even TRIED to balance a budget in 18 tries, collectively.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

6. but YOU like your Republican govt...

must pay ALL of it back or face bankruptcy, like the USSR. It's ironic that Russia went belly up in Afghanistan, just like the U.S. can easily do in the same region.

[Cassandra]

14. " your Republican govt."

Mine? No thanks.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

18. LOL, i know what you mean Cassandra

I have "no thanks" for a crooked, lying Republican majority in the House and Senate either, only condemnation.

[bvar22]

33. Just send the bill to your children.

That's exactly what the Republicans are doing.

Talk about "Taxation Without Representation".
Who speaks for the children and their children?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

34. that is an excellent point!

"Taxation Without Representation".
Who speaks for the children and their children?

perfect, bvar22.

[Totally Committed]

5. Can you imagine the uproar

if this had been a Democratic administration who racked up this debt on its watch?

The Republicans are no longer the Party of Fiscal Responsibility OR of Conservative Spending OR of Smaller Government. No siree!

Why aren't the Democrats screaming at the tops of their lungs about this? You have to wonder....

TC

[Jeffersons Ghost]

7. I AM SCREAMING

REPUBLICANS HAVE LIED ALL ALONG AND HAVE NO INTEREST IS SMALL GOVERNMENT OR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY

[Totally Committed]

15. Excellent!

Keep screaming, my friend....

How can we get ELECTED Democrats to join us in our screaming??????

TC

[Jeffersons Ghost]

17. turn on C=SPAN

Many Dems are screaming this mantra, which is what caused me to post this thread!

[BR_Parkway]

8. Dumb question, but why don't we just cancel the debt to Iraq in

payment for all that we've 'done' for them? Why leave it there gathering interest every month as we continue to spend more and more?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

12. comparably we owe Iraq and Iran very little

If China or Japan, however, call in their markers, we're bankrupt.

[Yupster]

67. Luckily you can't

call in treasury bonds or notes. They have stated maturity dates. They could sell them to other investors on the open market.

[LaPera]

25. And what in the fuck "have we done for them"? DUMB!

Besides absolutely destroying Iraq's infrastructure, roads, water, electricity, sewage plants, homes, businesses, stores, hospitals, schools, etc. And killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, stole anything that wasn't nailed down, created a civil war, stealing their oil, exposed to depleted uranium in their atmosphere and in the air they breath, tortured their people!

We illegally invaded a sovereign nation in Iraq, for what, the above? OIL!

And you want to default? Is that the right thing to do to anyone?

[BR_Parkway]

28. Sorry, I was recalling a time where ShrubCo made all the claims that

this war wasn't going to cost us anything, it would all be paid out of oil revenues.

I wasn't advocating that we dump the debt, simply pointing out one more area where the current (mis)Administration is totally incompetent.

Seeing as how they always want to claim the mantle of Fiscally Responsible and all

[LaPera]

39. Sorry too...When one just burst into DU as I often do for a brief couple

of minutes each day - I scan things very fast...I'm sometimes off the mark & I read a couple of post, then arrogantly- (my republican disdain & anger indeed getting the best me) -I begin to pound away a post... forgetting others have a sense of progressive irony...I don't know every others keen satire, tongue -n- cheek, and the fine wit=irony, often enough here on DU...

I sometimes quickly post and then move on...In son much blindly, with my anger of the fucked up, fucks republicans... they pounding away with their meanness, greedy and the pure - believe it -- ugly sick vindictiveness and disdain for us all!!! These truly wicked, ugly, satanic-worshipping fascist, evil beings placed on earth with us...how did they before so fucking sick?

Again, sorry, I didn't recognize your understanding...Sometimes I just plainly...miss it...

[Jeffersons Ghost]

65. they treat them as well as they treat our own

the 9th Ward in New Orleans still lacks sewage, water and power.

[Vinnie From Indy]

9. I think I heard that it breaks down to be $42,000. owed by

every man woman and child in America.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

16. that sounds about right Vinnie

I don't have $42,000 right now. Do you think the USSR will loan it to me?

[skids]

10. Everyone should read this.

(PDF)

http://www.weedenco.com/welling/Downloads/2006/0804welling022106.pdf

[Jeffersons Ghost]

13. I agree skids

Will you provide a vote and a few kicks, to let DU have a chance to read all about it, skids?

[KansDem]

11. Uh-oh! The US Congress will start getting those calls from India...

From 8:30 am to 8:30 pm, Monday through Saturday, offering a free "check by phone" to get this matter out of collections.

"Hello? US Congress? Hi, I'm "Cindy" from "NoDebtLimit4U." Before we proceed, I must inform you that this call may be monitored for quality assurance or customer training purposes. Now, can I confirm your mailing address and phone number...?"

[Radio_Guy]

19. A Great Depression is coming

Unless we go back to the fiscally sound ways Bill Clinton used to drop the deficit down and create a surplus, we are going to see a depression far worse than what we saw in the 1930s. There won't be anyone to provide soup for soup kitchens. Businesses will be belly-up and the suicide rate will be double what it was then. Unless we go back to the way it was in the 1990s, it will get worse at a faster and faster rate.

[file83]

30. Bush's Response: "Depression? Good! Helps in Army recruitment! " n/t

[Lasher]

20. The Social Security Trust Fund securities consist of Treasury Bonds

The general fund has spent the money it raised by issuing Treasury Bonds to the Trust Funds. The exact same thing is true to say of money that is owed by the general fund to the Chinese government. The Chinese are also holding US Treasury Bonds. If you are going to say that there is nothing in the Trust Funds because the general fund has already spent what it has borrowed, then you might as well say that we don't owe the Chinese anything.

The Trust Funds do not consist of slips of paper with "IOU" written on them. All of the money in the Trust Funds has not been spent. That is a myth being perpetuated by the pukes who are trying to convince us all that it would be OK to default on the debt that is owed by the general fund to the Trust Funds. If you don't think it's OK to steal the money in the Trust Funds, then I wish you would at least refer to the securities held by them as Treasury Bonds and not IOUs.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

23. tell the Chinese we don't owe them anything...

I bet there's a reward in it if you convince them that the U.S. owes them nothing... Just say "charge it" and tell them it's the American way.

[Lasher]

26. Exactly my point

Tell the bluehairs it's not convenient to for the general fund to pay the Trust Funds what it owes and you will likely get the same kind of reaction - except that the bluehairs can vote.

[Yupster]

69. But isn't there a difference between

the government owing itself money and the government owing someone else money?

If you had a vacation fund in your sock drawer and needed it to pay for a car repair, let's say you put an IOU to remind yourself how much you owed the vacation fund.

Now let's say you never repaid your vacation fund in your sock drawer. Is this the same as not paying your mortgage?

I don't think it is. I don't think your debtors like your mortgage company and credit union would care one way or the other whether you repay your sock drawer. It isn't real because you can't owe yourself money.

My own guess as to what will happen with social security is that in a decade or so the system will no longer take in more than it pays out. At that time the social security trust fund will be combined formally with the general fund.

With that change the treasury bonds that are listed as a debit to the general fund will cancel out the same bonds which are listed as a credit to the social security trust fund. The credit will cancel the debit and voila, the debt will be listed as paid.

With that little acccounting sleight of hand, the social security trust fund surplus will dissappear and the money will have been officially looted.

[Iowa]

36. Thank you Lasher!!

I was just about to post something along the same lines, but you said it well.

The puke's are trying to undermine faith in the SS system. That's what they do. This is one of the ways they do it. Convincing 20-somethings that there will be nothing there for them is another tactic. It is their intent to soften us up for a future raid on the system. DUers shouldn't buy in to their manipulation. The SS system is sound. Deficit spending caused by irresponsible tax breaks for the wealthy, the fiasco in Iraq, and other mismanagement is the problem - and it WILL need to be addressed. But stealing from the trust fund to pay for repuke mismanagement is off the table. As a people we cannot let that happen, and I don't think we will. Sanity will return.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

40. THERE WAS PLENTY IN SOCIAL SECURITY DURING THE CLINTON YEARS

Where did the money go? He handed this administration a BIG surplus in Social Security!

[Iowa]

41. The surplus is still there - there's even more than when Clinton left....

--In 1999 there was $896,141,707,000 in the trust fund.

--In 2005 there was $1,859,440,665,000 in the trust fund - approaching double the amount that was there in 1999.

Trust Fund investments are in US Government Bonds. While these bonds are a special series available only to trust funds, they carry the same full faith and credit of the United States government (which guarantees that interest and principal payments will be paid on time) as the marketable bonds individuals hold in their personal accounts.

The problem isn't a lack of assets in the trust fund - the problem lies with the ability of the US Government to honor its promise to pay back it's debts - debts to individual bondholders, debts to other countries, and debts to the SS Trust fund. Nevertheless, in the financial community, the default risk of US Government Bonds is viewed as negligible - almost nil. The trust fund is solid. The pukes are lying bastards, and all this business about there being nothing in the trust fund, and worthless IOUs is propaganda. Lies. They're softening us up to get our permission to steal the money.

This republican congress and administration has been the most fiscally irresponsible in our history, which will make it more difficult to honor debt payments in the future. But honor it they/we must. Look for tax increases and discretionary spending cuts. But defaulting on bond payments isn't likely to happen, IMO. The only way the neocons will be able to screw the SS system we all depend on is if a majority of us swallow political lies, or let them set one generation against another - but they already tried that and it failed miserably. The parents of the boomers stood up for their kids, and boomers will stand up for their kids if the day comes when they try it again.

[Lasher]

42. Exactly right, Iowa. Social Security is off the table.

Of course, Jefferson is actually thinking of the former budget surplus in the general fund. Clinton worked hard to build that up so that the general fund would be in good shape to pay SS Trust Fund and other obligations. So, what happened to the general fund surplus? I like the short answer best: Bush gave it and more to his base in the form of tax cuts for the wealthy elite.

By conservative estimate, even if we do nothing to change it (which is my recommendation for now), SS will be able to pay full benefits until around 2042, and 70% of benefits thereafter. The Congressional Budget Office estimates 2053 and 80% thereafter.

So you have to wonder what all the chrisis is about. Again, if nothing is changed, the general fund will have to start paying off the Trust Funds' Treasury Bonds in about 2018 as planned because that's when SS will start paying out more than it takes in. This is the actual 'chrisis' that Bush and his cronies fear, because they don't want the general fund to pay these obligations.

You're not going to see anything like a bunch of Hamburglars going "Bwa ha ha!" as they cart off sacks of Treasury Bonds in the night. What King George II and his cronies are trying to do is cut SS benefits now, in the name of 'saving' the program. Their intention is that this would extend the 2018 date indefinitely, so that the general fund would never have to pay off the Trust Funds' Treasury Bonds. This is exactly how they plan to steal the Trust Funds.

With these sacrifices imposed on current and future Social Security beneficiaries, Bush might be able to protect his cherished tax cuts for a while longer. You see, Bush's Social Security 'reform' proposals are really nothing more than a part of his overall scheme to steal from the poor and give to the rich.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

61. I see your all's point here, and I do agree

that some of the more extreme "starve-the-beast" types like Grover Norquist have been pushing for raids on the trust fund. But I doubt that anyone could succeed in that since the payments from the trust fund are part of the US's "full faith and credit"-- any such raids would be catastrophic for US bond-rating status.

The main issue here, is the accumulated national debt-- soon to be $9 trillion in immediate bond sales, and $72 trillion in unfunded commitments, greatly contributed to by the Bush Administration-- that is utterly unsustainable. We're looking at a horrid crisis in barely a decade as the bonds mature and the bills come due, to China, Japan and other foreign investors in particular. The temptation will be to print and hyperinflate, and whether or not this happens, US bonds and treasury bills will likely be demoted to junk status. It's looking stormy ahead.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

62. Heh, what Iowa said

I see my points were already made with some eloquence. :)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

66. Just as Clinton gave us prosperity, another Dem will do the same

that's a good post lasher.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

44. well count me in now... as a "boomer" standing up for his kids

What kind of legacy will we leave our children? Will they have any semblance of the same freedoms we enjoyed? Will they have the same economic opportunities?

[Lasher]

58. I love it when you're on a roll like that, Jefferson

I don't think young folks are going to have the same economic opportunities we boomers have enjoyed. For that I guess I blame 'free' market globalization most of all. Those policies have not worked out well for your average American. Some folks would call me a protectionist, and I guess they would be right. I think some things are worth protecting.

Lasher

[Lasher]

43. Here is another DU thread that discusses economic collapse

Check this one out, Jeffersons: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2162445

Some pretty grim predictions there.

Lasher

[Jeffersons Ghost]

45. thanks lasher

It IS grim... Those increased minimum payments were spooky to me, as I smelled a big rat. All these "funds" seem like some shell game to me. These DC fools missed their calling. They were all born to be slight of hand artists, not politicians.

[Yupster]

68. I don't understand your post Lasher?

Could you restate it if you have the time?

[donkeyotay]

21. Not to nitpick, but we're not ALL headed for bankruptcy

America's wealth has been transferred to Bush's Base. If we want to invade someone I still think it should be the Cayman Islands.

[Greyhound]

48. Indeed it is, and they've been getting their assets out of the country for

about 15 years now.
Get ready now!

[AtomicKitten]

22. It's never been a secret Republicans want to bankrupt the government

to choke off "entitlement" programs, but I had no idea they were directly spending funds coming into Social Security to help send Social Security into insolvency.

Another detail Democrats should hammer home to America.

Great post, JG.

K&R

[lwesty]

24. I think we're being set up

for personal bankruptcy. With the drop in interest rates came increased spending. Not just on low ticket items, but real estate. With the seller's market of the past few years, people are selling their homes at inflated prices and those seeking to take advantage of lowered interest rates are qualifying for higher mortgages. Then they changed the bankruptcy laws and credit card companies increased the "minimum due". The cost of living is higher, health insurance is higher, gas and oil (enough said), property taxes increased (25% in my area!) and now interest rates are going back up.
I'm no where near an expert, but if it seems fishy to me, a mathematically challenged individual, then there must be a larger picture here.

[file83]

31. Well, once the economy tanks....the only "good" jobs will be Military jobs

Nothing like a starved, broke, pissed off populace to fill the Army boots of an ALL OUT WAR with Iran, now is there?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

59. those "good jobs" won't pay as well

and Veteran Benefits are constantly under attack by Rpublicans.

[DuaneBidoux]

27. What is amazing is how many people don't understand debt vs. deficit

[Jeffersons Ghost]

60. I didn't fully understand before I did the research you see here Duane

It blew my mind when I saw what we owe and

the debt limit was just increased to $9 TRILLION!

[Joanne98]

29. And they raised the debt limit AGAIN last night. Impeach him!

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

32. It's tantamount to fraud...

...

[DemReadingDU]

35. The Coming Economic Depression

Interesting website...
http://www.markswatson.com/Depression1.html

[RazzleDazzle]

37. Look - the reason the Feds are stopping the M3 reports

starting this month. That graph tells it all: we HAVE been printing money "like there is no tomorrow," as that site says. Just amazing.


Ugh. I can't read it all, but it's good stuff. VERY good stuff.

[slipslidingaway]

55. Thanks for the link, another site worth a visit that always has

some good articles and graphs is Contrary Investor, the monthly articles are free.


February '06

http://contraryinvestor.com/2006archives/mofeb06.htm

snip

"OK, fair enough. We're not disagreeing with Neff's comments in absolute terms. He's dead on. But where we believe Neff should have continued, and where we believe most pundits end this convenient story of the moment, is in not pointing out how these facts presented in isolation fit into the context of broader household financial circumstances of the moment. It's somewhat like us telling you we have a home worth $1 million, but forgetting to add that we have a $900,000 mortgage against it.

We believe that one of the most important exercises in contrarian thinking is trying to specifically analyze and characterize a stream of logic that is both widely held among market participants and works to support their current investment actions, but is inherently flawed."



4/4/00 WHO'S LEFT TO BUY ?

http://contraryinvestor.com/moarchive2000/mo040400.htm

[DemReadingDU]

56. Thanks!

always looking for good articles to read!

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

63. Brrr, Watson scared the heck out of me at his site

He's not fooling around either-- he backs his stuff up. I sense (I hope) that he was too pessimistic on some fronts, but then again, I've heard others make this point about the M3 money supply as well.

It *is* awfully damn convenient (and suspicious) that the Fed is no longer reporting the M3 data. WTF is up with that? I'm not a conspiracy theory type, but what this says to me, straight out, is that the Fed knows we're in deep trouble and can only keep printing out bills-- so the best way to prevent a disaster is to hide the nasty data. Why else would the fed conceal the M3 data, something it's never done before?

[slipslidingaway]

38. Good article, "We, the American people, have been played for

fools and suckers by our government over the past two decades. Every president, and most members of Congress from both political parties, have knowingly and willingly participated in major fraud against the American public for partisan political reasons. The large Social Security surpluses generated by the 1983 tax increase allowed politicians to spend massive amounts of additional money without having to suffer the consequences of raising taxes. The true size of the federal budget deficit has been masked in an effort to fool the public. The points that I am making are not newly recognized facts. The government has known what it was doing from the very beginning. We know this because the Congressional Record records the efforts of a few honest members of Congress who repeatedly battled against the fraudulent practices of their colleagues. Below are excerpts from a speech made on the Senate floor by South Carolina Senator Ernest “Fritz”Hollings on October 13, 1989:



“We arrive at that fanciful…projection only by indulging in enough fraud and larceny and malfeasance to land an ordinary citizen in the penitentiary. Of course, the most reprehensible fraud in this great jambalaya of frauds is the systematic and total ransacking of the Social Security trust fund in order to mask the true size of the deficit. As we all know, the Social Security payroll tax has become a money machine for the U.S. Treasury, generating fantastic revenue surpluses in excess of the costs of the Social Security program. Excess Social Security tax revenues will be $65 billion in 1990 alone—boosted by yet another rise in the Social Security tax rate, slated to kick in January 1. By 1993, the annual Social Security surplus will soar to $99 billion.

The public fully supported enactment of hefty new Social Security taxes in 1983 to ensure the retirement program’s long-term solvency and credibility. The promise was that today’s huge surpluses would be set safely aside in a trust fund to provide for baby-boomer retirees in the next century.

Well, look again. The Treasury is siphoning off every dollar of the Social Security surplus to meet current operating expenses of the Government. By thus reducing the deficit, we mask the true enormity of the Federal budget crisis while creating the illusion that Congress and the administration are actually doing something about deficits..."


scroll down to read the balance of what Senator Hollings said back in 1989
http://www.allenwsmith.com/id9.html



SS Trust Fund Data

1.8 trillion in IOU's for the combined accounts.

"The Social Security Trust Funds are the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Fund. The OASI Trust Fund began in 1937; the DI Trust Fund in 1957. These trust funds are managed by the Department of the Treasury."


Click on "Fiscal year data, OASI and DI Trust Funds, combined" to see the surplus at the end of each year

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/funds.html

[Jeffersons Ghost]

46. WOW!

That was quite a post, slipslidingaway. Welcome to DU :hi: I'll be watching for your threads in the future... Your preceding remark would make for a VERY good board! I'd vote for it but if you post threads a DU take some serious time to concoct good headlines that induce curiosity and long-term readership.

[slipslidingaway]

52. I hope you do not think I wrote the article??? The author is

Allen W. Smith and yes he did write a catchy title as you did above. Thanks for the important topic, welcome and tips for the future.

http://www.allenwsmith.com/index.html


I see Russ Feingold mentioned the SS Trust yesterday.

snip

"Mr. President, this must stop. Running deficits causes the government to use the surpluses of the Social Security Trust Fund for other government purposes, rather than to pay down the debt and help our nation prepare for the coming retirement of the Baby Boom generation."


http://feingold.senate.gov/~feingold/statements/06/03/20063014.html

[donkeyotay]

50. Hello, and thanks for educating about the Greenspan heist

as many younger people just see boomers as stealing their money. Whatever the merit of that viewpoint, I'd appreciate young folks remembering that we have had this money stolen all our working lives, and a promise was made that that money was to be set aside to keep us from becoming the burden to the present generation that we now are because the money was spent on other things, things like Starwars.

“We arrive at that fanciful…projection only by indulging in enough fraud and larceny and malfeasance to land an ordinary citizen in the penitentiary. Of course, the most reprehensible fraud in this great jambalaya of frauds is the systematic and total ransacking of the Social Security trust fund in order to mask the true size of the deficit. As we all know, the Social Security payroll tax has become a money machine for the U.S. Treasury, generating fantastic revenue surpluses in excess of the costs of the Social Security program. Excess Social Security tax revenues will be $65 billion in 1990 alone—boosted by yet another rise in the Social Security tax rate, slated to kick in January 1. By 1993, the annual Social Security surplus will soar to $99 billion.

The public fully supported enactment of hefty new Social Security taxes in 1983 to ensure the retirement program’s long-term solvency and credibility. The promise was that today’s huge surpluses would be set safely aside in a trust fund to provide for baby-boomer retirees in the next century.
end>

[slipslidingaway]

53. You're welcome, the article is easy to read and yes it

mentions the large increase paid by the boomers for their nest egg.

Using the SS link posted the combined total in the funds from 2001 through the end of 2005 have risen by 800 billion!

Senator Hollings was correct, not sure how he was received in regards to this speech.

[Nederland]

47. A Nice Graphic

When looking at something like the national debt, its important to view it as a percentage, not an absolute number. This chart gives an excellent idea of how the debt rises and falls with political party:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

49. Thanks for EVERYONE'S post

I not only copied your graphic to my hard drive but I'm also creating a link to this site because of entries like your previous post, Nederland. MANY people have GREATLY contributed to this topic and I want to thank you all.

[sendero]

51. From the late 70s...

.... through the 80s and the 90s, there were always a cadre of authors/pundits/financial-gurus telling us that the economy was teetering on the brink.

Americans have heard it for so long that now that it really is looking over the cliff, folks are not paying attention.

Even if we swept Bush and his band of merry spendlemen out of office tomorrow, America is in deep fiscal trouble and there is not going to be any cure that will not involve tons of pain for almost everyone.

Prepare yourself, this is not an "if", it is only a "when".

[Blue_Tires]

54. ttt n/t

[Jeffersons Ghost]

57. Look at this:

[OneTwentyoNine]

64. Gee...debt SKYROCKETED during Reagan/Bush/Bush Presidency's

Whoda thunk it??!?! Any idiot can see where it was just starting to level off during Clintons final years as he reigned in runaway spending,balanced the budget and started running a surplus.

But then along came Chimp.....