Ray McGovern on Dobbs, was asked about Hayden

[durrrty libby]

He said this appointment made him sad and not because of the uniform

To paraphrase, Hayden used to have integrity but the fact that he was complicit with the NSA warrantless spying, marks him as a sell-out.

Ray said the old Hayden would have advised W that his NSA program is illegal, and refuse to implement it.

This interview is a must read, if it can be found

[BrklynLiberal]

1. So what is it about W and his cronies that can turn so many into

unprincipled hacks? What makes them so ready to turn their backs on the Constitution and what is best for the US?

Ray said the old Hayden would have advised W that his NSA program is illegal, and refuse to implement it.

[valerief]

8. What ever happened to those anthrax attacks? n/t

[annabanana]

13. blackmail?

How long has the spying been gong on?:shrug:

[MSgt213]

2. I saw and Ray was absolutely right about Hayden.

[rurallib]

3. Been a lot of people who had integrity until they met shrubeenie

[durrrty libby]

4. I hope Ray makes the rounds on the networks

He is an extremely candid guy.

[baby_bear]

5. I thought the stand-in for Dobbs was rude to McGovern

If not rude, at least clearly not respectful. "Well, we knew you would have an opinion" sounded very dismissive, to my ear.

She should have said something to the effect that it is refreshing to hear an honest opinion, and one that is not fearful of retribution from the administration.

b_b

[annabanana]

14. I would have said "we" who?. . . . .n/t

[IndianaGreen]

6. Hayden is another Poindexter clone!

Like Ollie North's superior during Iran-Contra, Admiral John Poindexter, Hayden made his mark by catering to the unconstitutional whims of his superiors. Hayden also said that the Fourth Amendment allowed for warrantless searches. This is what the Fourth Amendment actually says:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmentiv

Hayden must be defeated!

[Harper_is_Bush]

7. What did McGovern say about his exchange with Rummy?

Which can be seen here, btw: http://bradblog.com/video/flvplayer/FlvPlayer.html?file=http://www.ameratsu.com/media/vid/msnbc/msnbc_ko_rumsfeld_mcgovern_debate_060504a_320x240.flv&width=320&height=240&OrigWidth=320&OrigHeight=240

:)

[BlueManDude]

9. the real issue is not the uniform - it's the spying n/t

[incapsulated]

11. Exactly!!

If I hear one more "but it's a civilian agency" I will scream.

Who gives a fuck about that shit! This guy ran the illegal domestic spying program, hello? And now he is going to be the head of the CIA, are you fucking kidding me??

Goddamnit.

[BlueManDude]

12. seems like a deliberate smokescreen. n/t

[maine_raptor]

15. The "Civilian" issue is VERY important.

The Pentagon currently controls 85% of US Intelligence budget (DIA, NSA, ONI, etc.)

The CIA was established as an INDEPENDENT agency back in 1947. The law that established it, The National Security Act of 1947, clearly and explicitly FORBIDS the Agency from conducting operations within the US. But more importantly, it was set up as a check (as in control group) over information coming from the military side of intelligence going to the civilian policy makers. In fact, one of the reasons why, under the NSA of 47, the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI, or Head of the CIA) was the one person made responsible for reporting intelligence info to the National Command Authority (Pres, VP, etc.) was to have him vet the info and balance it out.

With very few exceptions, the DCI has been a "civilian". Yes, there have been a number of DCIs that had a strong military background, but prior to HAYDEN, all had left military well PRIOR to assuming the DCI mantle.

The "civilian vs military" question in this case is directly connected to the larger issue of keeping our traditional civilian control of the military intact.

It's a damn good point to raise.

[Vidar]

10. Ray is right again.