Dean is wrong.

[mikeanike]

I never agreed with the part of the platform regarding GLBT's and after what he said I'm even angrier. While Bush is wrong for imposing a federal amendment BANNING gay marriage, the use of federal power when it comes to creating equality in the country is important and necessary. Look at race discrimination. The same thing applies. By putting the issue into the hands of state govt's all you will get is further fictionalization of the country and a greater degree of discrimination and intimidation towards the GLBT community. Bush's policy implementation is correct, just not the policy.

[MaineDem]

1. I don't believe the Dem Platform has the "one man-one woman" language

I believe the Chairman was wrong on that.

[mikeanike]

3. no the platform advocates

that the issue be left up to states, and yes your right it doesn't advocate one-man one-woman marriage. I understand what the point is. At the very least we can create bastion states for the GLBT community to live. But that is still wrong! An american citizen should have the right to live anywhere in the country (monetary funds permitting!) without the fear of discrimination or harassment.

[mikeanike]

4. removed

[The Onyx Key]

2. Oh, boy!

:popcorn:

[jjmalonejr]

5. Dean ate a healthy dose of crow, though...

...and corrected his misstatement.

I just don't get why people are so furious.

I've done my share of Dean bashing in the past, but I can't fathom why people want his head on a pike.

Seems like circular firing squad stuff to me.

[madfloridian]

6. The gay community apparently wants him out.

That is my understanding. I am not sure of all the reasons yet, but I guess they will feel comfortable with the Republicans.

[mikeanike]

8. I'm not surprised

I'm glad I'm not gay. I know that sounds harsh but I am. To be in their position must be horrible. Getting shot at from both sides no must be very frustrating...

[jjmalonejr]

9. It seems that way, but maybe it's just a knee-jerk reaction

I totally understand the reaction to his misstatement of the platform, I just don't get why his apology and his correction are being utterly rejected.

[mikeanike]

10. I don't know I'm not in their shoes

However if there was an issue regarding overwieght white males and something like this happened, I'd be all over it. Well maybe after a snack and a nap...BUT then, LOOK OUT!!!

[jjmalonejr]

20. True enough

Perhaps Dean's gaffe just confirms what some in the GLBT community already didn't like about him.

He was never for gay marriage. The VT legislation was about civil unions.

It's former hard-core Dean supporters who are suddenly SHOCKED that I don't understand.

[mikeanike]

22. yeah but give the guy some credit

If your going to go the states rights route it takes baby steps like the civil union bill he passed to get the ball rolling. However historically on values issues, that method seldom works.

[madfloridian]

11. It's because he doesn't support gay marriage. Never has.

It is because there was a firing at the DNC and an older employee from 2003 was rehired. If I wrote letters and emails about my principal when I was still teaching, I would have been fired as well.

I guess they think the RNC will be fair to them.

[mikeanike]

12. I thought he was gay-friendly?

Didn't he pass some historic bills regarding gay rights issues while governor?

[madfloridian]

15. He passed the VT civil unions bill.

During the campaign in 03 Bill Clinton called his backers urgning them to support someone else because Bill said Dean had forfeited the right to run for president because of the civil unions bill.

So, I guess no one really understands that Dean is really trying to be fair in the best way he knows.

[libnnc]

16. now you're just being totally ridiculous...

[jjmalonejr]

24. how am I being ridiculous?

I'm open to talking about this, and can accept that I might be looking at this the wrong way, but I'm not sure what I said that was ridiculous.

[mikeanike]

25. I think the reaction has to do

with the perception by many in the GLBT community who perceive Dean to not be really supportive of them.

[jjmalonejr]

30. I think you're right

Although, I made a mistake...I wasn't the one being accused of "ridiculosity" (hey, is that a Bushism?)

[libnnc]

26. no no no no...I was responding to the crack someone else made

about all the gays having it in for the doctor.

[mikeanike]

27. I don't think that was a crack

I think a lot of GLBT groups are at that point.

[libnnc]

28. well I'm not to that point...yet

I want an apology first, before I blow my last working gasket. There are some very loyal Dean supporters who seem to be very uncomfortable with the glbt community criticizing Dean at all.

[mikeanike]

31. then they are hypocrites

Brainwashed is brainwashed. The 31% that support bush will probably follow him to the grave, finding no fault with him the entire way. If you can't call someone out when they said something wrong, even if you support their message overall, then whats the point? Absolute power corrupts absolutely and total compliance by supporters is where is starts.

[madfloridian]

33. I am against trying to oust a chairman duly elected.

For one issue.

[jjmalonejr]

29. oops, sorry

I mistook your post as a response to mine.

[Rowdyboy]

34. Please don't think that the entire gay community wants Dean out.....

While I did not back Dean for the nomination, I did support him for party chair and have been pleased with what he's done. As a Mississippian, I appreciate that someone in the party remembers that we're here and our votes count too.

Yes, Dean has made changes in the DNC structure but thats part of his job. I don't feel particularly well represented in the party today but certainly the position of gays under Chairman Dean is no worse than it was under Terry McAuliff.

So what if Rahm Emmanuel and Harry Reid are pissed. They have no authority over the party chair. I like both Emmanuel and Reid and I fully understand their desire to regain Democratic majorities in both houses but thats not Dean's job. His job is to build the Democratic party. He was elected by the party-not house and senate leaders, and he's answerable to the state party chairs only.

Some in the gay community view everything through the prism of their sexuality. I don't. I'm basically a Democrat who just happens to be gay. Dean has made missteps but he's also taken on a huge job and appears to be making a serious attempt to make a success of it. I wish him only the best.

[mikeanike]

7. first off

He was pandering to the right, plain and simple. This guy has some much credibility in my opinion cuz he always tells it like it is IMHO. For him to try that was blatant. However, I do accept the revising of his remarks. It is simply the state policy that I disagree with. And since I haven't thought about it in a while this situation just reminded me of how much I dislike the policy, which Dean supports!

[jjmalonejr]

14. Pandering, or reaching out

I support Dean's 50 state strategy. Writing off a whole community just because courting them is difficult seems like a bad idea.

I'll concede that he blew it in his attempt to try to connect with them, but his clarification came swiftly.

I've bashed Dean a whole lot in the past, but I'm willing to cut him some slack on this one.

I hear and understand your disdain for the policy, though. I agree with you. I'm glad I'm not a politician.

[mikeanike]

19. Here is how is see the distinction

It is reaching out when you try and persuade a group to agree with your position. There are many degrees with how someone does this but the main issue is not really comprimising your own position.

Pandering is when you comprimise your POV in order to gain power (ie votes)

That is how I define those to words in the context of politics!

[jjmalonejr]

21. Makes sense

I would say that while attempting to "reach out," he stepped in a big pile of "pandering"

How's that sound?

[mikeanike]

23. hahaha

yeah that works!

[MsUnderstood]

13. what did he say?

I'd love to discuss with you but I feel like I'm in the middle of a conversation.

Any links on what he said, what he retracted?

[mikeanike]

17. Here you go

Regarding what he said on CBN:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060511/ap_on_re_us/democrats_gays_2

regarding the retraction:
http://www.365gay.com/Newscon06/05/051106deanUp.htm

[jjmalonejr]

18. Seach any of the forums for Dean's name and you'll find details

In a nutshell, he said on the Christian Broadcasting Network that the Democratic platform states that marriage is between a man and a woman.

It doesn't.

He said a whole lot more than that, but he really blew it by mischaracterizing the platform in a weak attempt to reach out to conservative Christians. Pissed of the GLBT community and misled the religious right.

In his defense, he came out and corrected himself.

[Odin2005]

32. Dean is a political realist? I'm shocked! (NOT!)

Obsessing over social issues is why we loose elections. The social issue purists are doing exactly what the Pukes want them to do, scaring socially conservative left-wingers. This is political reality, idealism means jack.