Removing 12,000,000 illegal aliens is no problem.

[APPLE314]

It could be done in one week.

Have you ever thought of how many school buses there are out there that are not being used during the summer? Additionally, they are already distributed across the nation, ready to accept full loads of passengers for an express trip to the Mexican border. All we need is a little backbone from our elected officials and some volunteers to drive the vehicles. Can you drive a school bus?

[Ayesha]

1. Removing 12 million bigots would be even easier!

and a better use of the buses. Just get the membership lists of Focus on the Family, the Christian Coalition, and oh yeah, the Minutemen, then deport, deport, deport! Let's put them to work in Mexico making cheap plastic crap for Wal-Mart for 50 cents a day and see how they like it.

[Minnesota Libra]

6. We certainly agree on one thing.....................

....the loss of the neocons/fundies in this country would be a positive development. On the other hand, you might be surprised how many Independents and Left of the Center Democrats agree with the original post. Preaching to the choir doesn't foster real life experience.

[MercutioATC]

29. It's not bigoted to require people to obey the law.

I'm sick to death of anybody who states that ILLEGALS are in this country ILLEGALLY being called a bigot or xenophobe.

Yes, illegals are people...so are ALL people who have broken the law. Why is it O.K. to want to send a corrupt Republican politician to jail, but not O.K. to want to send an illegal alien back to their homeland?

[AzDar]

52. Amen. n/t

[wakeme2008]

2. Bad

Apple :spank: :)

[Minnesota Libra]

3. I hope you have plenty of fire extinguishing equipment handy..............

.....because at DU you can't propose anything but "we like illegal aliens, illegal aliens are good, illegal aliens are great" without being unmercifully flamed.:grr: God forbid we put our own citizens interests first and foremost, can't have any of that stuff.:eyes:

[noahmijo]

5. I've discovered that here at DU if you advocate going after those who hire

illegal immigrants and claim that that is the source rather than a near-sighted plan that just calls for removing the illegals themselves that you are somehow a sympathizer for open borders.

[FreakinDJ]

18. No need to use buses

You merely increase and enforce stiffer mandatory penalties for employers of illegals and they would go home.

Don’t get confused by the Corporate propaganda circulating out there, “we need workers for agriculture” The truth is they need to hold down wages of working Americans to increase profits. The new visa programs (H5A visa) proposed go directly after middle class American jobs in Manufacturing, Construction, Transportation, and Food Processing

Personally I’m against deporting 12 million illegals or creating new visa programs to increase legal immigration. At least by the means they have proposed in the Senate bill.

H2A Agricultural workers, is a perfect example. Only 40,000 temporary visa permits were issued last year because so many workers are already living here. By not using legal H2A visa holders, the farmers pay even less then the wages and conditions set forth by the labor department.

[primative1]

19. "Comprehensive" reform ...

I love that term, don't you. We could sit here all day and night and not even begin to list all the holes the size of cargo ships that they have not even attempted to address ... and the senate then has the balls to tell us that we americans prefer their "comprehensive" plan.

[sadiesworld]

65. BS.

The OP is one of the very few posts I've EVER seen on DU that advocates rounding people up and hauling them back over the border. Even those who believe that the illegal immigrants already here should have to return to their home countries to apply for citizenship generally advocate going after employers in order to motivate illegal immigrants to leave voluntarily.

I cannot believe you are arguing that DUers aren't vocally supportive of sanctions against employers. This is one of the most patently false claims I've seen made about this issue (and that IS saying something). I can't begin to count the number of threads I've read that devolve into ridiculous claims (from illegal immigration advocates) about employers being unable to verify whether a potential employee is a citizen thereby rendering employee sanctions unworkable.

C'mon now, surely you've seen these?

[noahmijo]

66. This is just ONE example (see thread)

Although I do angrily rant, I clearly advocate going after employers and yes I did get a good amount of people who agreed over all, at the same time as you can see I got someone foolishly accusing me of being some sort of Bush insider who supports open borders.

Here is a quote from my thread for fast finding:

But not a SINGLE solitary bill or even idea that states any sort of punishment against the guy who hires illegals to clean his hotels or do the housework so that his wife can fry herself at the nearest tanning salon.




http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1318430&mesg_id=1318430

[sadiesworld]

68. Your initial post started:

"I've discovered that here on DU..."

That sounded like a generalization which you now acknowledge is untrue, i.e., "I did get a good amount of people who agreed over all...".

If you're simply disgruntled with an individual poster, rather than making some sort of blanket statement about DUers, I'd suggest you make that clear (and take it up with that poster on that thread).

[treestar]

22. Oh you poor martyr

It's so cruel having to oppose anyone.

:nopity::nopity::nopity:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

27. What do you believe?

Do you think it is right and reasonable to protect the rights of legal citizens first? ALL other countries do. Thanks.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

4. Oh, boy...

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Eugene]

7. Rounding them up and getting them on the busses is the hard part

especially if you're concerned about such quaint niceties as due process or
humane treatment of detainees.

[Minnesota Libra]

8. It doesn't have to be hard though and humane treatment can and............

....should be maintained. If you've ever lived in an area where there are allot of illegal aliens (from anywhere in the world, not just Mexico) then illegal aliens can be picked out from a mile away. I haven't always lived in Minnesota, rather for years I lived in an area heavily populated by illegal aliens, and yes they make themselves fairly obvious in a variety of ways.

[primative1]

17. Umm ...

I live in an area that has always had a large Puerto Rican population. Why should these people now be hounded because there are likely Hondurans in the mix. Careful what you wish for.

[LuckyLib]

20. You can tell an illegal alien a mile away? My fifth generation

Mexican American sister-in-law (legal, by the way) would love to know how you have mastered that talent!

[Bridget Burke]

76. If you aren't blonde, you aren't illegal!

Simple ideas from simple minds.

[High Plains]

78. You mean by their brown skin?

[cyclezealot]

9. Anyone see " A Day in California with out Mexicans."

That is your future. I have mixed feelings about illegal aliens too. But deporting 12,000,000 people. I expect to see uncleaned hotel rooms, garbage stacked up in American's cities, and unpicked vegetables and fruit. Also, drastically incresased food prices.
I would not feel this way, if US corporations had not exported unlivable jobs to Mexico making life in Mexico impossible by lowering their wages. The US Manufacturers did this to both Mexico and the US. It is not the fault of illegal workers in the US that US companies destroyed the Mexican economy by rasing their prices for basic commodities and lowering wages within Mexico.
If flamers responding to racist rhetoric don't like it, I don't give a damn. The truth is the truth.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. I think you are right, to a point

Yes there would be all the conditions you describe. And then people would come to the realization that if they want trash picked up/hotel rooms cleaned/food harvested and prepared etc. etc. that they might have to, you know, hire American citizens to do it. Sure, there would be bitching and moaning from employers used to dirt cheap labor and consumers used to rock-bottom prices, but eventually people would have to adapt or be hungry and dirty. Increased demand for labor would cause wages to go up across the board. I agree with you that the corporatists are to blame and a lot of anti-immigration people are nothing but racist assholes. But the system will continue only as long as we all accomodate and perpetuate it through our own actions (or inactions) and choices.

[rodeodance]

11. yes, as long as you have people who will work for lower wages, legal

or not, the situation will continue.

[LuckyLib]

21. And a Congress that consistently refuses to raise the minimum

wage. It's no accident that corporate America loves the low-wage, no-benefit work culture. But I'm not holding my breath for agriculture jobs that pay enough money to attract whites to work the fields in 100+ heat for 12 our days. Sure, yeah, uh-huh.

[treestar]

23. But that's the nature of capitalist competition

So the Mexicans are to have no job at all, just so the Americans can make more?

And there is such a thing as a job position that cannot be filled with an American. If a company is expanding you can't just pay the existing Americans more. They won't start being able to do with work of two people.

There is such a thing as a business expansion.

If there is more money in Mexico, markets open up in Mexico. Just sending them back begets extreme poverty there and possible war and revolution.

It's not so simple as people make it out to be. We could allow them to come legally if we wanted to. Instead we create an impossible set of laws to enforce and then cry about it when the Mexicans don't obey voluntarily.

And people who think human rights are only for Americans - well then how do they expect nonAmericans to respect our laws?

[primative1]

25. If a Company CanNot compete using existing rules ...

We should not be creating a new set of rules so that they can. This should have been said in 1990 but wasn't.
Creating loophole filled visa programs to allow companies to prosper at the expense of the existing workforce is tilting the market. Your an obvious free marketer. If the free market dictates the wage is such, why should we tear down the border in order to change what the market said fair wage was? You cant have it both ways. If you cant cut a profit in a business by using the existing workforce then find a new line of work.

[cyclezealot]

60. Treestar.

I like your idea of bringing about revolutions elsewhere and the nationalization of US investments in Mexico. Similiar, but likely more severe than what is going on in BOlivia now.. That argument is almost enough to sway me into thinking like those wanting to deport 12,000,000 people. Serve US Industry right for abandoning the US market... They made their choices to investment where there are shaky undemocratic governments. They need live with that choice.
OF course, I'd bet the US taxpayer will probably end up subsidizing these corporations for their lost investmenst south of the border.

[acmejack]

14. I think you have the perfect solution.

move elsewhere. Then you only have an intellectual interst in these conversations only...

[MrTriumph]

30. A nation without illegals would work. Americans would do the jobs

This is not rocket science. When demand for jobs increases, wages go up. More Americans fill the nasty jobs (BTW, they do hold most of these jobs already) and guess what? Your hotel room is clean, your yard is mowed, your sheetrock is hung, etc.

Oh, and and if you want to blame US corporations for exporting American jobs, you are giving the gov't of Mexico a pass. The Mexican gov't has a long history of protecting a few upper class wealthy families at the expense of the common people.

[MercutioATC]

31. So let's let them build cars for $4/hour...we'd save a FORTUNE...

I say we replace union auto workers with illegal immigrants and pay them all $4 per hour. We'd cut labor, healthcare, and pension costs drastically...

...and if somebody ever decided to stop the practice of screwing LEGAL American workers out of a livelihood, we could scream "I see assembly lines unmanned and drastically increased car prices".

Screw that.

The FACT is that these people are here illegally. I don't care if they're brown or yellow or orange or chartreuse. They have NO legal right to be here in the first place. Whining about price increases because employers would have to pay a decent wage if they couldn't hire illegals is moronic.

[Nimrod2005]

12. Send this idea to Lou Dobbs, he will give a book! his book...

[LiberalVoice]

13. No one said transporting them would be hard.

Its the whole gathering them up without destroying the civil liberties of legal US citizens part thats tricky.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

26. And hysteria over breaking up families of immigrants...

and heartbreaking tales of persecuted individuals would be MILKED by the media with pictures of sobbing, begging, pleading people... and THEN the rioting and torching and window breaking will start, and from there the hate crimes will increase...Pretty picture.

[GOTV]

47. Why would legitimate concern be described as "hysteria"?

If an illegal immigrant starts a family here the children are US citizens. It's not hysteria to be concerned for their rights.

[MercutioATC]

53. What's your take on "anchor babies"?

[GOTV]

58. That's not an answer to my question you understand...

... and I'm not familiar with the term "Anchor Babies"

[eowyn_of_rohan]

57. Why do you assume a negative connotation?

If there are instances of inhumane treatment (or what is perceived as such) of some illegal/undocumented aliens/immigrants, I predict an hysterical backlash, hysteria being "A condition in which a large group of people exhibit similar physical or emotional symptoms, such as anxiety or extreme excitement"

[GOTV]

62. Because it's usually used dismissively...

... "Hysterical" reactions are not normally viewed as reasonable and appropriate reactions. To argue against the nullification of the rights of innocent Americans is normally considered reasonable and appropriate.... not "hysterical".

If by "And hysteria over breaking up families of immigrants..." you meant "And legitimate concern over breaking up families of immigrants..." then I would say you've made a poor word choice.

But if you meant to say that concern for the rights of American citizens is not appropriate in this case then that's a much different topic.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

67. I understand what you are saying

but the dictionary definitions don't necessarily support your reading of the term. People become hysterical when they learn of the untimely death of a loved one. I think that is reasonable and appropriate. They also become hysterical when they are angry and upset and feel powerless to affect an unjust situation--they start laughing hysterically, or get into fights and arguments with those who don't agree with them...some turn to vigilantism or knee-jerk extremism (on both ends of the spectrum BTW)...

If illegal immigrants are rounded up, most people will have legitimate concern over breaking up families of immigrants, but some also feel that while this is unfortunate and sad, they should not have entered this country illegally and put themselves into this position in the first place. Some incidents will be more painful to witness than others, and most people will probably believe that some exceptions should be made in certain circumstances...Others will demand that not ONE SINGLE PERSON be sent home, and argue that every case constitutes a breach of human rights. Emotional arguments, such as what we see here on DU, will follow, tempers will flare, and hysteria will rise.

Legal American citizens ought not have to worry, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up. They won't be the ones who will be sent back to their own countries. (on edit--oops--you meant by this the babies, who by virtue of being born here are legal American citizens...yep, that sure does create a special type of problem!)

[GOTV]

70. Yes, It's the children of illegals I was referring to....

Other than that I understand how you meant "hysterical" now.

I'm not sure how to handle illegal parents of American citizens other than automatic citizenship for the parents. I understand that creates an incentive for illegal immigrants to have children they don't otherwise want to get the citizenship.

How many illegal immigrants have US born children? Maybe more important, what is the male/female ratio of illegal immigrants? Say it's 90% male and all female illegal immigrants get pregnant with an illegal immigrant male to take advantage of this loophole? You still have 80% that remain non-citizens and eligible for deportation, if we go that route.

It might be worth the loophole to preserve a family for US citizen children of illegals.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

73. I know a lot of people who agree with that

I have mixed feelings and no alternative solution figured out that I feel 100% good about

[eowyn_of_rohan]

69. "anchor" babies

I have never heard this term, but want to share this anecdote:

A friend of mine is a firefighter whose station is on the border. He has seen people from the Mexican side throwing pregnant women over the fence so that the child would be born on American soil. These ugly, rusty, corrugated metal fences are 10 feet high. (I think. They may be 8--I saw them from above so am not sure). The firefighters are called to administer aid and assistance to people who come across the border sick or injured. It is an awful situation for everyone involved.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

15. We would have riots in the streets...

I don't believe it is possible to "round up" 12 (or whatever) million illegal aliens and send them home, for logistic reasons, as well as because of the human rights issues. But if the Senate bill prevails, I think it will be equally impossible to "round up" all those in our country illegally then determine into which category each of them falls.

Category 1) those who have been in the country five years or more can remain as legal residents, and eventually become citizens, after paying at least $3,250 in fines and fees and back taxes and learning English.

2)Those who have been in the United States 2-5 years to go to a point of entry at the border and file an application to return.

3)Deport those who have been in the country less than two years.

Will we have to investigate the background and money trail for each immigrant? How do we determine the amount of back taxes they owe? How much English do they have to know to qualify? Would any of them admit to being in the country less than 2 years? This "solution" is ludicrous, and destined to fail, and I think the Senate is well aware of that...

[MercutioATC]

32. Wouldn't that make it easier to deport them???

What the hell is this "Don't piss off the illegals or they might riot" stuff?

Hell, let's not piss off thieves or child molestors....they might riot, too...

:eyes:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

44. But the THOUGHT of this happening enrages the "bleeding hearts"

They would join in... It would tug at all our heart strings... I think we are all hog-tied. If they try to determine who is an illegal immigrant they will be accused of racial profiling. If they get too rough with belligerent illegal immigrants there will be cries of police brutality...on and on. (on edit- not that all these accusations would be false).

I don't want to be so negative about this, but I am so frustrated because I just can't see how either plan will satisfy the majority of Americans who (it seems to me) want this massive flow of illegal immigration to stop NOW, and think too many have come across illegally already, but don't want to see riots and hate crimes flare up, because, eg., mothers are being separated from their children...

I would like to see the borders secured NOW (should have been done four years ago) and no more people should be coming across til we get a handle on all of this. It would help immensely if we had more border patrol agents. Since we don't what are we to do? As much as I loathe the racists and white supremecists among the Minutemen-type viglilante groups, NOT ALL of the people who are building the barbed wire fences are racists. Some are land owners or others who are just PISSED OFF that our government is not doing a damned thing to protect our security or rights, and this is their way of protesting.

I also agree with others here that we need to start (like YESTERDAY) prosecuting companies that hire illegal immigrants, and increase penalties against these businesses.

[MercutioATC]

48. I completely agree.

We seem to be in the minority here at DU, but I agree with your assessment.

:thumbsup:

[GOTV]

64. I also agree with this part...

"...we need to start (like YESTERDAY) prosecuting companies that hire illegal immigrants, and increase penalties against these businesses."

I think this will get us 95% of the solution. Let's do that first and then see where we are.

[GOTV]

63. Thieves and child molesters will not band together and riot

I think we can rest easy on that one.

[Xeric]

16. You're more optimistic than neo-fascist Vox Day

He thinks it would take 6 to 8 years.

"Not only will it work, but one can easily estimate how long it would take. If it took the Germans less than four years to rid themselves of 6 million Jews, many of whom spoke German and were fully integrated into German society, it couldn't possibly take more than eight years to deport 12 million illegal aliens, many of whom don't speak English and are not integrated into American society."

Your plan is just as nuts though.
Yep, let's bring on the cattle cars and internment camps. Freedom's on the march!

[MercutioATC]

33. No cattle cars...no internment camps...

...and (though you stopped short of saying it even though you implied it by referencing Nazi Germany) no ovens or gas chambers.

Just buses. The same buses our children ride to school every day. No pulling of gold teeth, no genetic experimentation, no forced labor, just a ride home.

[Xeric]

35. It's not that easy

And once started it will degenerate into violence and hardship. And I don't think the people proposing this idiocy care in the least. They are more than ready to be good Germans.

Are you aware that many of these people are not from Mexico?
Are you going to bus them back to Asia or Europe?
Or do you just want the brown skinned ones out?

This is just nuts. It's not progressive. It's not what enlightened people do. It's what freepers and bigots do. Imagining they can ruin the lives of millions and everything will be just fine. It's just sick and it sickens me.
I thought DU was better than this.

[MercutioATC]

36. Yes, it is (or, rather, it CAN be)

1) Heavily fine those who employ illegals.

2) Give illegals a 60-day grace period to leave on their own.

3) Cut off all education, social care, driving priveledges, etc. for illegals.

4) As illegals surface (crime, seeking medical care, traffic stops, etc.) send them home.


You're correct...a small percentage of these people are not from Central or South America. Most are. Their nationalith makes no difference. Their residency status DOES. Be they brown or green or purple, send them home if they're not here legally.

What's being proposed by a minority here at DU is equality...and that's a progressive position. Require EVERY U.S, resident to meet the legal requirements necessary to be here...that's all.

[Xeric]

37. Equality?!?

That's just nonsense.
2,3,4 will create hardship, discrimination and a permanent underclass. Hardly progressive.
You are advocating a police state where people are stopped, papers demanded and if they aren't in "order", deported.
Hopefully this kind of nonsense is a small minority here at DU because I shudder to think what the future is with this kind of "progressive".

This is an insane plan to destroy the lives of millions. I want no part of it and I will fight like hell to stop it. If I have to hide my friends and neighbors to stop this evil, I will do so.
You can stuff your final solution.

[primative1]

38. Bravo ...

Hear, hear. Let the underground railroad begin here.

[MercutioATC]

39. Yes, equality.

All people would equally be required to have legal status in the U.S. or leave.

#s 2, 3 and 4 would create hardship for people who violated the law to be here...it wouldn't cause discrimination, because it would apply to ANY illegal, regardless of nation or origin...it works SPECIFICALLY to prevent a permanent underclass by removing them from the U.S. population.

I clearly stated that I was advocating deporting illegals as the surfaced. No house-to-house searches, no roadblocks, no police state. Just a mechanism whereby illegals would be sent home as they are discovered.


What's YOUR solution??

[primative1]

40. Pretty Harsh no.

Legal or illegal, immigrants were lured here by the same american dream myth that gets crammed down our throats every day. They are victims like we are.
Solution: Close the border now and then fix what we have going on here. Yupp .. you have it, amnesty, but after the border is closed.

[MercutioATC]

41. They made the DECISION to come here illegally.

Decisions have consequences.

Nobody's advocating impaling or beheading them, just correcting their action......sending them home until/unless they choose to observe the LEGAL requirements necessary to reside in this country.

[primative1]

42. I differ ...

On a list of crimes deserving of having ones life ripped apart, going to get a job doesnt rank very high IMO

[MercutioATC]

46. That's a dishonest mischaracterization and you know it.

"Going to get a job" isn't an issue here. That's a gross oversimplication of the issue designed to appeal to emotion.

The issue is people who break U.S. immigration law, sneak into the country, and live and work here illegally.

Should one pay a penalty for "driving a car"? Of course not. Should they pay a penalty for "driving a car while intoxicated (in violation of the law)"? ...funny how the situation changes when you add the illegal act to the equation, isn't it?

[primative1]

50. And people call me a redneck ... lol

Ever hear the term going where the work is? Ive done it my whole life. If I thought it was in mexico Id probably have gone ther too. Might have gotten shot too, but thats not the point. People do what they have to survive. Whatever that may be. Dont make it any more sinister than it is.
I'm taking the hard line IMO of admitting the border needs closing.
Most of my liberal friends argue with me all day on that, but I sent my brick. I admit you cant feed the world if you want to eat yourself, but going after work is what it is, nothing more.

[MercutioATC]

51. So when is breaking the law and harming others justified?

...and who makes that decision?

The fact is that the U.S. has immigration laws. Tens of millions of people have used the process to LEGALLY work and/or reside in this country. Taken to its logical end, your proposal would encourage BILLIONS of underpaid workers worldwide to "go where the work is" and illegally enter the U.S, with no legal repercussions.

How does this make any sense?

[primative1]

54. Ever been Hungry?

I have, and I wont tell you what laws I broke. Been there.

[treestar]

24. Coming back the next day is no problem for the Mexicans

Immigration is a force in human history, not controllable just because we will it.

And it is not as if Americans never have any business opportunities abroad. It goes both ways.

[MrTriumph]

28. Business opportunities!? Illegals steal American jobs.

Get real. It is not the same, treestar.

[treestar]

55. No they don't. It's much more complicated than that.

What's to "steal?" Does an employee "own" a job?

At any rate, they don't do the same jobs unemployed Americans are looking for.

[MrTriumph]

61. Americans aren't in the construction trades? Get real, treestar

Americans still hold most of the jobs in the construction trades. But the onslaught of illegals has driven down labor prices.

Consider this:
In Ft. Worth, Texas, an area with thousands of illegal laborers, the price for ceramic tile work has not increased in over 10 years. This is despite inflation and a record amount of construction work.

Material has gone up in price. Labor has gone down.

[Tansy_Gold]

72. "Pink" collar wages haven't changed

since 1992.

I've been in Arizona since 1985. I had what was considered a good-paying temp job in 1992 that paid $11/hour. The only immigrant I worked with was from London, and she was legal.

Same kind of temp job still pays $11/hour. Damn few immigrants, legal or illegal, in this field.

I've done payroll work for several construction companies here in AZ over the past 20 years. Ever since the I-9 form was instituted, most companies keep some documentation of employee eligibility to work. Wages in AZ are held down NOT by hordes of illegal immigrants by the state's anti-union right to work laws.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- grant 'em amnesty, make 'em legal, and let 'em join unions. It'll raise EVERYONE's wages.


Tansy Gold

[Bridget Burke]

74. Your suggestion would empower all workers in the USA.

It's much easier to pander to the racists & let the rich folks continue to have their way.

Unions? Can't you hear the Republicans scream?

[MrTriumph]

79. Oh, like plentiful labor is going to unite? Uh-huh. Get real.

Your perspective has no basis in reality. What leverage the lower & middle class has is weakened every day excess labor pours over the border.

[MercutioATC]

34. ...which is why a real barrier to illegal immigration is also necessary.

Walls haven't proven to work well in the past...and I'm not knowledgeable enough to propose an alternative. It seems, however, that some physical barrier would be necessary.

Of course, fining the hell out of employers that hire illegals would probably be MORE effective, but determining whether a given person was legal of illegal would require something more involved than the present proofs and most here seem rabidly opposed to any sort of biometric ID card.

[treestar]

56. Others are rabidly opposed to a visa

Just because that would mean more brown people over here. How the average American can really claim they want that Mexican's job is beyond me.

But's it is all too much to enforce.

[MrTriumph]

80. As Mr. Collins would say, "How gracious you are. Your condescending...:

"How the average American can really claim they want that Mexican's job is beyond me."

Plenty American workers will take jobs as sheetrockers, roofers, janitors, nannies, etc. Not everyone is meant to be....well, whatever it is you do treestar... er, Mr. Collins.

[npincus]

43. send them to Iraq!

(just kidding)

[primative1]

45. Your kidding but the army isnt ..

I was absolutly shocked at how activly the army is recruiting kids in jamaica

[GOTV]

49. What would be even easier...

... is to start punishing those who provide the market for illegal aliens.

[snappyturtle]

59. Why don't we hear more about.......

getting the Mexican government to correct THEIR problem? Also, call me stupid, but I thought NAFTA was supposed to help the Mexican people have a higher standard of living. We lost many jobs to Mexico. Why do we turn the other cheek and let in-country jobs be taken over too? I don't want to hear that immigrants do jobs Americans won't do!

Trust me, I fully agree with the school bus solution--even though it may seem cruel and inhumane to some it's probably an easier route than the illegals used to get into our country and maybe, just maybe, Mexico would have to think and figure something out.

[underpants]

71. Check this out there's a whole bunch of 'em just sitting there

Too funny APPLE314

[Bridget Burke]

75. Trains were used in the deportations of the 1930's

U.S. urged to apologize for 1930s deportations

By Wendy Koch, USA TODAY

His father and oldest sister were farming sugar beets in the fields of Hamilton, Mont., and his mother was cooking tortillas when 6-year-old Ignacio Piña saw plainclothes authorities burst into his home.
"They came in with guns and told us to get out," recalls Piña, 81, a retired railroad worker in Bakersfield, Calif., of the 1931 raid. "They didn't let us take anything," not even a trunk that held birth certificates proving that he and his five siblings were U.S.-born citizens.

The family was thrown into a jail for 10 days before being sent by train to Mexico. Piña says he spent 16 years of "pure hell" there before acquiring papers of his Utah birth and returning to the USA.

The deportation of Piña's family tells an almost-forgotten story of a 1930s anti-immigrant campaign. Tens of thousands, and possibly more than 400,000, Mexicans and Mexican-Americans were pressured — through raids and job denials — to leave the USA during the Depression, according to a USA TODAY review of documents and interviews with historians and deportees. Many, mostly children, were U.S. citizens.

www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-04-1930s-deportees-cover_x.htm

End Birthright Citizenship? I'd agree if we could go back several generations. Let's give everybody a test at 18. The good ones can stay & the worthless scumbags can go--wherever.

At least, in this thread, the anti-immigrant crew is not saying "racism, what racism?"

[Timmy5835]

77. Why aren't you talking about.........

......those who hire. That's how you stop the problem, and quickly.

[MrTriumph]

81. Agreed Timmy. But those coming here are NOT blameless.

Are you going to tell me 6 million Mexicans were kidnapped and brought here?

[Zynx]

82. I would just love to see the mess that would cause. n/t

[The Magistrate]

83. Locking

The O.P. is no longer among us....