Immigration debate: Where do you fall?

[underpants]

On Tuesday talk radio was about nothing but this USA Today Gallup poll. Our local idiot who basically just parrots what Rush said was livid and his callers were likewise beside themselves (you'll see why).

Okay here is the the link to the original article and the FOUR groups. These groups were determined from the poll -->the radio heads forgot to mention and didn't dare try to explain that to their listeners.



Nation splits 4 ways on illegals
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-29-immigration-split_x.htm
Updated 5/30/2006 10:10 AM ET

Immigration debate: Where do you fall?

The hard-liners

25% of Americans, 60% male, 11% from immigrant families, 41% Bush approval rating.
Their outlook:
The most urgently concerned and the least sympathetic to illegal immigrants. Think immigrants' removal would help the economy. The only group with majority support for a fence.

Who they are:
Mostly male and overwhelmingly white. Three of four don't have a college degree. Most likely of any group to live in rural areas and the least likely to live in cities.

Their politics:
The most conservative group, with the highest Bush approval; 51% are Republicans.


The unconcerned
23% of Americans, 50% male, 13% from immigrant families, 20% Bush approval rating.
Their outlook:
Not at all concerned about the issue. Generally sympathetic to illegal immigrants. Think their removal would hurt the economy.

Who they are:
The youngest group and the most likely to live in cities; many are in the East. One in three has a college degree, and 15% are African-American, the highest of any group.

Their politics:
The most liberal group, with the lowest Bush approval; 59% are Democrats.

The ambivalent
27% of Americans, 58% female, 15% from immigrant families, 33% Bush approval rating.
Their outlook:
Support letting illegal immigrants stay and work toward citizenship but also the most likely to say their removal would help the economy.

Who they are:
Predominantly female and the group with the least education and lowest incomes. Many live in the Midwest. The most likely of any of the groups to report attending church every week; 27% are Catholics.

Their politics:
The most bipartisan group ?ss 47% Democratic, 40% Republican ?ss with a mix of ideologies.

The welcoming
27% of American, 59% female, 21% from immigrant families, 28% Bush approval rating.
Their outlook:
The most sympathetic of any group toward illegal immigrants and the most likely to believe their removal would hurt the economy. The only group that thinks dealing with illegal immigrants already here should take priority over border security.

Who they are:
Mostly female and better-educated, higher-income; many live in the West. The most likely of any group to have immigrated or had a parent who did.

Their politics:
54% are Democrats. More than three of four are conservatives or moderates

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. It's the gay marriage issue of this election year

[underpants]

2. Yes but this one has them all split up

a wedge issue that turned around on them.

The rank and file want a 80 foot wall and NOW. The suits want cheap labor and cheaper domestic labor because of the illegals.

Hmmm whats a boy to do???

BTW- I support the MinuteMen. If they want to go out and spend their time doing what they feel is helping this perceived problem then fine let them. It is their time and hell at least they are involved or at least trying to make a difference.

Now I realize that a lot of what I hear coming from them is thinly veiled (sometimes) racism well it isn't against the law. It is WRONG but lets not be naive it is all around. I think it is also important to note that their not being deputized, and never going to be deputized, is a potential nightmare for the boarder patrol but so far nothing has happened.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. The minutemen are shooting holes in the water jugs left for the migrants

in the Arizona desert by humanitarian groups.

That makes me so angry I can barely even stand to think about it.

So no, I don't support them at all.

[underpants]

5. Okay I didn't know that

I will take your word for it but if you had a link that would be great too.

Well of course I can't support that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Saw it on TV the other night

but I will look for a link.

There have been several threads posted here about hate groups and hate crimes associated with the minutemen. Have you seen any of those?

I understand wanting to support them. I also admired the fact that they were willing to put their money where their mouths are and actually get out from in front of their computers and DO something. I know I got so frustrated with this damn war that I joined the peace movement and it makes me feel like I am doing something. I realize I alone can't stop the war, but it feels better to stand on the corner holding a sign and to drive down to Texas a couple times a year than to sit at home and get mad. And that is how I viewed the minutemen in the beginning.

Then I saw a few stories on TV about how violent they are and I heard them talking. They are scary people. And they are promoting hate. I just can't go along with that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Still looking but found this:

McCutchen is the recently appointed chairman of Protect Arkansas Now, a group seeking to pass legislation that would deny public benefits to undocumented workers in that state. More to the point, he was identified by the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens as a member in 2001 — a charge he denies, though he admits that he did give a speech that year to the group that has described blacks as "a retrograde species of humanity." As recently as summer 2003, McCutchen wrote anti-Semitic letters to his hometown newspaper in Fort Smith, Ark.

"A lot of these people coming in, they're diseased," McCutchen told one group of fellow volunteers, who treated him like a visiting celebrity. "They've got tuberculosis, leprosy. I mean, you don't even want to touch them unless you're wearing gloves. So why the hell should we pay our taxes to cure them?"

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=13

Side note: I have been teaching the migrant's children for many years now and I have yet to catch a disease from any of them.

"In fact," the SPLC reported, "National Alliance pamphlets were distributed in Tombstone and , this predominantly Hispanic community just two days before the Minuteman Project got going. 'Non-Whites are turning America into a Third World slum,' they read. 'They come for welfare or to take our jobs. Let's send them home now.'"

But despite the presence of known white supremacists, the mainstream media generally gave the Project a pass.

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=19008


"Coyote" is slang for migrant smuggler, so one border resident sent an ominous message.

[Redbear]

6. Im Unconcerned.

I've lived in Texas my whole life. Illegal immigrants have been a part of the way things are for as long as I can remember. There is no crisis.

[Systematic Chaos]

3. I most closely resemble 'ambivalent'

However, my only major issue with immigrants is that they learn a basic level of English communication as quickly as possible. I don't care if some of them need government assistance, because if we weren't wasting TRILLIONS on illegal wars there'd be more than enough money to help anybody in this country, citizen or not. I want these greedy corporate schmucks to pay them a living wage, too.

[MercutioATC]

7. Oooh! I'm a hard-liner who doesn't fit the profile!

...do I get some sort of prize?

[unlawflcombatnt]

16. I'm a hardliner, too

Do I fit the profile? I'm in the majority of "hardliners" that do not approve of Bush by 59%, and the majority who are male.

But, unlike the so-called "profile," I have a doctoral degree, live in an urban area, and I'm one of the 49% who are not Republicans.

Also, I'm "ambivalent" about a fence. I think a fence would be of only a slight benefit, if any at all.

I think the starting point is to prosecute employers severely who hire illegal immigrants.

[MercutioATC]

18. I completely agree that employer fines are the logical first step.

I, too, have my doubts about the effectiveness of a "big fence".

I qualify as a "hardliner" because I don't believe in any sort of amnesty (even with token fines) for illegal immigrants. We have immigration laws. Tens of millions of people have become legal residents or citizens while complying with these laws. I don't agree with giving a pass to the estimated 12M+ people who chose to violate those laws, sneak into the U.S. and work here illegally.

[PublicWrath]

8. The category names don't tell the whole story, (if I'm interpreting

the secondary pages correctly.)

The Hard liners
What they say ...
The issue is extremely or very important 95%
We should build a fence along the border 70%
Let them stay and work toward citizenship 0%
Removing them would help the economy 56%
..............
The Unconcerned
What they say ...

The issue is extremely or very important 0%
We should build a fence along the border 21%
Let them stay and work toward citizenship 84%
Removing them would help the economy 5%
...........
The Ambivalent
What they say ...

The issue is extremely or very important 88%
We should build a fence along the border 44%
Let them stay and work toward citizenship 81%
Removing them would help the economy 59%
............
The Welcoming
What they say ...

The issue is extremely or very important 100%
We should build a fence along the border 33%
Let them stay and work toward citizenship 76%
Removing them would help the economy 0%
..............

[High Plains]

9. Welcome, amigos.

[rucky]

10. Here's my breakdown:

1) The xenophobes (R): Build the wall and send the rest to jail.

2) The corportists (R): Let them stay and make it easier for businesses to hire cheap immigrant labor.

3) Pro-Labor (D): Deport illegals and punish businesses who hire illegals.

4) Pro-Immigrant (D): Go after the businesses who hire illegals, work with Mexico to boost their own economy, and the problem will solve itself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I'm a 4

[Auntie Bush]

14. I'm you're # 4

[MercutioATC]

19. Well, in your motive-based version, I'm a #3.

However, I also view it as an ethical issue. If tens of millions of people have worked through the process to become legal residents and/or citizens of the U.S., what message does it send to gtant those who chose to break the law amnesty?

[rucky]

21. I'm going to get annihilated for saying this...

but the Bush "guest worker" plan addresses this fairly (to the immigrants, but NOT to the businesses who play by the rules).

However, the millions of immigrants weren't protesting the amnesty plan, they were protesting the draconian House proposal.

[Zynx]

15. I say dramatically loosen legal immigration procedures and work

to improve Mexico's economy along with the rest of Latin America. We've treated them like dirt for far too long.

[roody]

17. Who's going to clean my house!!??

And who is going to cut my grass!!?? P.S. I pay a more than living wage.

[rucky]

22. I'm available

in fact, I'm willing to do most jobs that "Americans won't do".

[SemiCharmedQuark]

20. Nice poll

I missed it the first time. Very interesting.