28,000 votes stolen from Kerry in Lucas County (Toledo); Noe @ Work

[Botany]

Lucas County: 2004

Bush got 87,160 votes

Kerry got 132,715 votes

Republican running for Congress
Kacazala got 60,965 votes

Dem running for Congress
Kaptur got 146,093 votes

So Kerry got about 13,000 votes less then the liberal
dem (who won) but bush got 15,000 more votes then
the repub who lost?

put em together and you get 28,000 votes that
magically migrated to bush from Kerry.

http://www.sos.state.oh.us:80/sos/ElectionsVoter/Results2004.aspx ( look @ the data yourself )

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=26439&mode=&order=0

Evelyn Pringle: 'How Bush rigged Ohio election — The Noe factor'
Posted on Friday, June 09 @ 09:34:48 EDT
This article has been read 840 times.
Evelyn Pringle

By late afternoon on November 2, 2004, nationally, all the exit polls showed John Kerry winning with 50.8% of the votes and showed George W Bush with 48.2%, meaning Kerry had a 2.6% lead over Bush.

But when the vote counts came in at the end of election day, Bush had 50.9% of the votes, and Kerry had 48.1%, meaning Bush received 2.8% more votes than Kerry.

According to Dr Ron Baiman, PhD, from the Institute of Government and Public Affairs at the University of Illinois in Chicago, who has 16 years of experience teaching statistics to both graduate and undergraduate college students, there would be about 1 chance in 900,000 of that kind of statistical error occurring.

[AndyA]

1. The facts certainly support a stolen election. But people don't seem to

care. The people of Toledo need to be in the streets screaming bloody murder. I'm not sure how that would help, but something needs to be done to bring some attention to this atrocity!

Stealing an election - it just doesn't get much worse than that!

[Botany]

2. The press refuses to cover this ........

..... many Americans also refuse to see what is right in front of them.

The idea that your vote doesn't count and that crooks now have taken power
is just too much for them to take.

Just by stats alone, the case for manipulation of the 2004 vote is solid.

How come every time there was a glitch or anomaly it favored bush?
It is like you flipped a quarter 100 times and got 99 heads.

[AndyA]

4. So what do we do? This isn't just an Ohio issue, it impacts all of us.

The media won't cover it.

The Internet is being taken away from us as we speak.

Could we call on the Democratic leadership (is there such a thing?) to have a press conference regarding this issue? As horrendous as 9/11 was, most people would have never believed such a thing could possibly happen the day before, yet it did.

We need to get the facts together, make sure they're clear so everyone can understand them, then find a way to get the message out. It's so frustrating! :grr:

[acmavm]

5. Americans have become lazy and stupid. No fight left in 'em.

Just give them their American Idol and cell phones and video games. That's all they need. Screw civil rights. Screw what they inherited from their elders. Rights and privileges that they elders had to fight for. They're just pissing them away.

[Botany]

6. Not really they are fed b.s. 24 / 7 by corp. controlled media.

Some still have very good hearts and mean well but they are being
manipulated big time.

[halobeam]

9. and to add.... beaten down and tired more than lazy and stupid.

[acmavm]

11. Beaten down by what? Life? Well, life's always been tough.

Let me borrow a phrase from fearless leader. Life has always been 'hard work'.

How the fuck did humanity get this far? By sitting on their whiney heinies?

[acmavm]

10. You can't manipulate people if they don't want to be used

that way. It takes energy and focus, along with a little bit of smarts. I'm sick of this 'it's not my fault, I was brainwashed' shit. That's the same lying excuse that the dems use for voting for this obscene murderfest we got going in Iraq.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

20. What's tough is when you feel like you are carrying the load

for 10,000 people... Writing dozens of letters, making dozens of phone calls (I even got through to Kenneth Blackwells personal secretary), designing and printing fliers & plastering them all over your town, attending every protest you can, then seeing 25-100 people there out of a community of 200,000...this is what went on for many of us after the last stolen election. I ended up burning out and crashing, then 6 months later finding I had an autoimmune disease (under control). 1% of us should not have to carry the weight for the rest. I for one cannot handle that kind of weight. I have such contempt for those who choose to be blind and let everyone else do the work for them. Done ranting...

[neoblues]

3. That's a 5.4% Magical Evening Shift...

Was there a full moon? That's about all I can think of that would result in an increase in Republicans being out in the evening. These are people who pride themselves on doing things on schedule, getting up early (wearing white shirts and red ties) and that sort of thing. It seems rather unlikely they'd wait until late to go to the polls--even though they could count on having no lines to worry about, unlike Democrats in many areas (the more important, the more likely the lines owing to limited numbers of voting booths/machines). It just doesn't make sense--unless you consider... that they waited until they knew by how much they needed to shift the vote (that being by the evening) and then worked their magic.

[spag68]

7. Toledo

Isn't Toledo where the magical coin guy is headquartered?

[Botany]

8. yes and his wife was head of the BOE there.

I have a link to an article about it in my o.p..


Fun fact Bernadette Noe let bush/Cheney 04 people "work" on
voter files @ the BOE before the election .... result?
Thousand of people kicked off voter rolls.

[sandnsea]

12. Mine got 15,000 more

My very liberal Congressman, DeFazio received 15,000 more votes than John Kerry in Lane County, home of Eugene. The right leaning county just south of me gave DeFazio 8,000 more votes than Kerry. Kerry got 18,000 - Bush 36,000. But DeFazio and his opponent split that vote even, 26-26. You can't use comparisons of very popular local Congressman to base stolen elections on. Anybody who knows anything about voters knows it just won't fly.

The gay marriage variances, now that may have some merit. But not the local elections, that's the problem the national party has. Locals can win by running away from the national party, but can't translate their popularity to the national candidate.

[Botany]

14. Sure you can

Because:

Republicans did not care about the congressional race as much as dems did .....

they both held the same core political ideals to support one but not the other
on such a large scale defies logic i.e. if you vote for a liberal dem for congress
you tend to vote for a liberal dem for pres.

once again an analogous "glitch" helped bush but hurt Kerry. If the glitches
were truly independent then they should be a 50 v 50 split between bush and Kerry
they were not.

If this was the only case I would agree with you but this is one of thousands of "glitches"
that helped bush and hurt Kerry.

BTW Tom Noe's wife ran the BOE in Lucas County ..... urban areas had 30% turn outs
but suburban areas had 85 to 99.7% turn outs

Read the article I posted

[sandnsea]

16. DeFazio is a very liberal Dem

Lots of Republicans vote for him. Your theory is just wrong and actually goes to show what's wrong with the Democratic Party, not that there is a stolen election.

Voting for Bush and against the marriage amendment on the other hand, now that shows something wrong with the vote because that didn't happen anywhere. Except for select places in Ohio, as I understand. I haven't had the time to track that one down yet.

[Botany]

18. I live in Columbus, OH and worked for Kerry.

I saw the shit happen with my own eyes and heard it w/ my own ears.

As far as the local Congressperson getting more then Kerry yes I can
buy many people who know him or her locally crossing over and giving
that person more votes then the top of the ticket but after seeing all the
other stuff my B.S. meter is pegged.


BTW in 12 rural and semi rural a black liberal pro gay rights women w/
no funding and little name recognition pulled in more votes then Kerry

Go to the link for Sec of State on my O.P. ..... pull up C Ellen Connely's #s vs
John Kerry.

[sandnsea]

21. Then focus on the real stuff

The pro gay rights black woman with no funding and no name recognition means nobody knew who she was so you can't say it's peculiar that anybody voted for a pro gay rights black woman. Was her name first on the ballot? Did people decide to vote for a woman to offset their bigoted gay marriage vote? Or did they vote for the name "Connely" because it sounds very WASPy white? It's unusual, but can be explained. Unless these are the same counties where people also voted for Bush and not the gay marriage amendment. If those match up, then that's where you start.

And did I say we should be paying major attention to that town in Iowa where the votes actually did get switched and there's no doubt about it. We shouldn't ignore glitches just because they happen in Republican primaries, that's a way to get the problems with these machines out to more people. It's a way to give credibility to the claims about the machines and show it doesn't have anything to do with partisan whining.

There are real problems with elections across the country. There are real possibilities that hacking or other kinds of fraud took place. But focusing on some of these things that are perfectly consistent with lots of other elections discredits the real "glitches", the very real registration and voting suppression tactics, things that we can really change. That's what has been frustrating to me the last year and a half, to watch so many wild goose chases get in the way of real reform.

[pgh_dem]

13. Botany - do you have access to Toledo-specirfic exit polls?

I don't doubt that both of the Noe's involvement in the 2004 election had a major impact on Kerry turnout as well as totals, but I wonder whether the exit poll info just for Toledo is available, rather than statewide.

Other item of note in Toledo, wasn't that where the Democratic Party HQ was broken into shortly before the election, and computers with GOTV-related info stolen? Or am I confused about that?

[Botany]

15. sorry I don't have the exist polls

and yes that is where the computers were stolen from a dem HQ.

In Columbus Kerry's computers w/ GOTV lists and voter files were always being hacked into.

I suspect that the NSA helped bush in Ohio in 04 ..... "they" knew how many votes that
Kerry had before the election ..... and worked accordingly.

These people are crooks and know they need to maintain power or their "sins" will be outed.

[bornskeptic]

17. If you think that is proof of cheating,

look at the 2000 Lucas County results:

Kaptur 136,488
Bryan 36,256

Gore 108,344
Bush 73,342

So Kaptur got 28,000 more votes than Gore, while her opponent got 37,000 fewer votes than Bush. Does that mean Bush stole 65,000 votes from Gore? I suspect it just means that Marcy Kaptur is extremely popular.

[Awsi Dooger]

19. Thanks for saving me the time

I was scanning the thread to see if anyone posted the 2000 results.

If this is "proof" or "theft" we can find examples all over the country. Congressional races are won by much greater percentage than the presidential vote.

[ginnyinWI]

22. in WI, Feingold got about 70%, Kerry 50%.

You just can't prove anything by stuff like this. We know that Republicans here are willing to vote for Feingold, cause he's a maverick, etc etc. And if it isn't for president, people are willing to "trust a Democrat".

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. The same thing happened in FL in 2004

Where Betty Castor got more votes total then Kerry, even though about 179,000+ people voted for president but not for senator. Also, the Senate race had a strong third party candidate that took away more votes then all the 3rd party candidates for President combined.


Here's the thread where I posted the data:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=65690