Letting go of Gore, Latching on to Feingold

[calmblueocean]

I'm a huge Al Gore supporter, and I firmly believe that there is no one in the country better equipped to be President of the United States in 2008. I also believe Al is telling the truth when he says that he isn't planning to run, and that he is a recovering politician. Al would be an amazing president, but he's also doing very valuable work outside of the presidency. Besides his barnburning speeches and work against global warming, Gore stands as a symbol for justice denied, for an alternate future just missed. I'd love him in the White House, but he's great where he is, too.

I watched Feingold on MTP today and finally had that moment where my brain just clicked, where I could let go of needing Al to run, and accept that Feingold is a fantastic candidate as well. Just listening to him, I could feel the American people being convinced by him. I've always appreciated Feingold, but today I am willing to say that if Gore stays out of the race, and Feingold runs, I will no longer be disappointed. I'm willing to get behind Russ and fight just as hard for him as I would for Al. I believe in both of them, and I'm proud that we can point to each of them as examples of what a real statesman should be like.

This isn't saying I don't want Gore to run -- I do. But if he doesn't, I'm okay with that. He's good where he is. And maybe Russ is the right guy for 2008 after all.

[still_one]

1. I do not disagree with anything you have said, except 2008

is a long way off. If we don't win at least one house in 2006, I truely believe it is over for the republic

[calmblueocean]

2. 2008 was on my mind today, but 2006 is even more important

We need to hold these people accountable, and 2006 is our last real chance to do so.

[Minnesota Libra]

10. If we can take back the House and/or Senate maybe we can..........

....begin the long painful process of pulling this country out of ruin.

[Minnesota Libra]

9. I'm with you on this - I truly think things are that serious in...........

....this country. We're at the edge and just about to slip over the edge.

[robinlynne]

3. I thought exactly the same thing this morning. exactly.

I was even thinking Feingold-Gore, so Gore could have an office as vice where he can really work on global warming...

[kansasblue]

4. I'm with you calmblueocean. Feingold.

[Rowdyboy]

5. Both would make great presidents....as would almost any Democrat

mentioned as a serious candidate. I mean, the WORST Democrat is heads above the best the Republicans have to offer.

[snowbear]

6. I agree! But it's wAaaAaay too early for "latching" !!

Especially when we have absolutely no clue who's running..

[Rowdyboy]

7. I love the fluidity at this point of the race...As you said, we have no...

clue who's eventually going to run and its now time to feel these guys out. I've followed elections since 1968 and my candidate of choice has changed during the course of almost every primary election. Since 1972, only Bill Clinton in 1992 and Al Gore in 2000 were my first choices to win the nomination. Latching on to a "perfect" candidate at this point is counter-productive for all but professionals. Watch them in action, then commit after you know the cast of characters.

[Alexodin]

8. As an Iowan I am latching onto Feingold right now. I am well

aware of the Nov midterms but I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[JNelson6563]

11. Gore/Feingold 08!!

:toast:

And I won't let go of the dream until the MSM has officially chosen our candidate.

[LynneSin]

12. I'm just having a tough time with Russ Feingold

I know that divorce is normal in the United States and we've even had one divorced president (Ronald Reagan). But I'll take the flames that I'll get for saying this but it must be said - Russ Feingold is a liablity because he's been through two divorces.

I mean, for those of us at DU - this is not an issue; hell people have done worse than him when it comes to marriage. But the republican party was able to slander a decorate war veteran when their candidate was a known draft dodger. And I see this divorce as a liability especially since it's two, not one.

So sue me for saying it

[FrenchieCat]

13. I love Russ Feingold as well......

(although I disagree that his censure move as principled, as it isn't enough punishment whatsoever)......but find the liability not only in his two divorces, but the fact that he is unmarried as well.

The man needs to find a bride quickly....and maybe the two failed marriages won't matter quite so much. :shrug:

[LynneSin]

14. Personally I think right now he's better as a VP than President

Which is why Gore is still my first choice.

[FrenchieCat]

16. I actually prefer Feingold's personality to Gore's......

As I was not so "excited" by Gore when he ran in 2000, although I voted for him.

[LynneSin]

17. But Gore isn't the same person he was in 2000

Which the reason I'm warming up to him. I saw him speak once about a year after the 2000 election and I was amazed at how personable he was during his speech. He was able to get his point across but also laugh at the jokes made at his expense during the 2000 campaign.

And if you saw his movie "An Inconvient Truth" you'll see that this is a very new and very electable Al Gore. I think he would be a strong candidate in 2008

[FrenchieCat]

21. Gore being"new" or "not the same Person" may not be as positive

on it's face to many voters as We would want it to be. It actually fits in with the old meme........Which Gore?

But we shall see once we get closer to those election, who are candidates are. :hi:

[Sugarcoated]

15. I see his bachelor status as a good thing

For several reasons.

1. No first lady to say or do something wrong that smear-cons will exploit with help from the lame stream media. You know they're gonna be looking for it after Teresa Kerry.

2. He's attractive and he's going to appeal to women voters, and as shallow as it is, that likability is huge. I think the bachelor thing will be a novelty that will set him apart a bit from the pack.

The only downside I see, besides some 50's throw-back types who, if that is a big reason for not voting for him probably wouldn't vote for him anyway, probably would be turned off by his "Jewish"ness. The only downside is if he starts dating a celeb or something like that.

[FrenchieCat]

20. I disagree........that a first lady or a first family isn't an important

piece the the image of a Presidential Candidate. Some say that Dean's wife being MIA hurt him, or that McCain's wife may have cost him a lot of vote in the 2000 primaries. Many in America today are swayed by the imagery of "family" and "marriage" and this will continue to be an issue.......that the GOP will hone in on.

Personally, although I think it should have nothing to do with anything, I do believe that many, many voters would prefer a married President to a bachelor one. Many prefer the thought of our President getting his groove on to release presidential "stress".......and many will find it hard to believe that we would have a "celibate" Prez.....meaning that Feingold's sex life or lack thereof could easily become a topic of distraction to what would be really important issues, IMO.

So I disagree that a presidential candidate being unmarried is an advantage.

[Sugarcoated]

24. If you want to analyze things via the smear factor

I really think the divorce thing is on the lesser end of Dems with much more smearable "offences". I think Russ's likability will neutralize alot of smear. Conventional wisdom doesn't apply for me in this political time we're in. Conventional wisdom gets us close, but not cigar. I'm backing the honest guy - the one with the cohones. They've got a dossier on every one of em, I want the one who can stand up to it best, and IMO that's Russ. He's unflappable from all I've seen. Rips em a new one with a smile.

[FrenchieCat]

27. I'm just a pragmatic and look at what the most likely scenario could

be during a General Election.....and though I realize that all of our Dem candidates are "flawed" (in a matter of speaking....even though they really aren't), I do strategically look at what the "mass" voters will conclude with the help of our unhelpful media, which does not always "equal" to conventional wisdom, but rather the question of "electability" which will not be ignored (even if we would prefer that it is).

What I pragmatically conclude about Russ Feingold hinderance as a candidate, in particular in a GE, are these:

"likeable" is relative, and is helped along by what the media decides and the approach they use in portraying any given candidate....no matter the realities.

Marriage is a big issue for many voters....subconciously most likely more than consciously (having a wife vs. not having a wife plus 2 failed relationships)....which is the same reason why folks like Newt and Giuliani have no chance on the Republican side. Feingold will most certainly lose votes due to his marital past and current status, no matter what the more liberal voters think. It is a hinderance in his candidacy, in reality.

The fact that he has a "Jewish" sounding name will affect more than those who wouldn't Democratic anyways....IMO. There is a thing called "Subtle" prejudice that comes into play, regardless that there are many who won't admit it. So, yes, Feingold's name alone will be a hinderance, not an advantage, IMO.

The fact that Russ Feingold has voted "NO" on many defense issues, including his vote on KOSOVO (in where he sided with Republicans, but for different reasons)and Gulf War I. Kosovo will not be debated again, as it is accepted history that KOSOVO was a war that we won and was fought with good intentions with our allies, and concluded in good results under a Democratic President. Add to this that Feingold also voted "NO" on Gulf War I which may have the agreement of many here at DU, BUT....was a war built on allied concensus with a rational better communicated than Iraq.

So I strongly believe that Feingold's defense votes (which represents the votes of the most pacifist senator in the entire senate) can and will be twisted to paint him as a ultra liberal pacifist.....and this standing, although popular with liberal anti-war voters, will not be so "popular" with mass voters...which is what are needed on one's side during a General election. So ironically, Feingold's consistent pacifist stance will be used against him to make the statement that he would not respond to various threats depending on where and how they eminate.....there can be no doubt. If they could paint John Kerry as weak on Defense, Feingold will be an easier target by far (think Bin Laden Tape or concocted Terrorist Plan foiled/or actually occuring right before the vote takes place).

The fact that Russ is 5'6' doesn't help either......even if I don't give a shit....

looking at it from the seats that the majority of voters are sitting in, all of the above add up as hinderances, not advantages for a candidate during a general election based on prior elections. Are there too many, or can each be deconstructed to Feingold's advantage? Those issues will have to be addressed by the Feingold campaign when the time comes. It's a tall order, but maybe it can be done.

[cascadiance]

33. Feingold's my first choice and here's why...

I also like Gore, and like what he's becoming now, versus what he was in 2000 (which was trying to not be Bill Clinton instead of being himself).

The tickets I could support would be:

Feingold/Clark
Feingold/Gore
Gore/Feingold
Clark/Feingold


I think the second one isn't too likely, as I don't think Gore would get in the ring just to become VP again. Even though Feingold/Boxer would be my ideal personal selection, I don't think that combination has a realistic chance of winning. Clark on the ticket I think helps shore up areas that Feingold might need it.

I'd like Gore/Feingold too, or Clark/Feingold for that matter, but I'd like Feingold in a leadership position now, because I think he's got the best history of dealing and leading the congress on issues that need to be dealt with now!

1) Campaign finance reform - His efforts with Feingold/McCain (reversed INTENTIONALLY for visibility), and his practice as he preaches efforts to keep special interest campaign funding for himself to a minimum is what makes me feel he could be the best person to lead us getting true "Clean Elections" public financing reform that's so sorely needed in government now and affects so many issues. The priority of getting that in place in my mind is so essential, even though I recognize that it might be a work in progress for a number of years. This also may need efforts for things like a constitutional ammendment against corporate personhood and/or unbridled use of money being considered free speech to keep the right wing SCOTUS from shutting efforts down here.

2) Civil liberties protections - Feingold is "THE congressperson" when it comes to leading others on capitol hill in protecting our civil liberties. His efforts to work against the Patriot Act in recent years and fight for CONSTRUCTIVE help in reforming these areas, as well as taking issue with the president's breaches of the constitution in domestic spying, and his past work working against both the Communications Decency Act along with the Telecomm Act in the Clinton years, as well as against the Clipper Chip then too show him to be a TIRELESS civil libertarian and a genuine person that goes to bat for the American people here.

3) Trying to take a stronger approach on getting us out of Iraq - His earlier efforts and his recent effort with John Kerry show that he's really trying to do what needs to be done in getting us out of that quagmire.

4) Holding the president accountable and asking for investigations through his censure bill, etc. are essential to restoring the balance of powers that our founders have built our Democracy on.

It is these issues which I believe are essential to be dealt with by whoever takes over in 2008 (or earlier if Pelosi can grease the wheels a bit before). I also love Al Gore's passion for deal with Global Warming and other huge environmental issues that also MUST be dealt with too, which is why I would love him teaming up with Feingold in some fashion. But I think in order for us to start going after environmental legislation, we need to solve the above issues first, which are clearly in the way for any kind of progressive legislation being passed.

Cheney has been trying to reform our laws to empower him more. Perhaps the side effect of that is that Russell Feingold could also be made powerful (though perhaps not in the right ways) as a VP of Gore's to help with getting Campaign Finance reform and civil liberties reform through as VP.

[Sugarcoated]

36. I don't agree with him on all

but he takes a stand. It's been said till I want to spew, but after so many losses, I believe it: People may not agree with you, but you have to have the courage to take a stand, that wins votes from the mods, indies and swings . . . and as Wisconsin has shown, Republicans. And most of the time he's right on - and can explain what he does, directly with no waffling. Honesty that translates.

No matter what, no matter who, smear will be coming. He's the best I've seen to deflect and neutralize it. The marraiges and religion - Repubs voted for him in Wisconsin in spite of that and their differences on policy. If he can do that AND excite the base, as he's obviously doing, that gets my attention. I just don't think, in the end, it's going to stop the floodgates of this guy once he gets out there for real after November. His ability to win people over is amazing. My husband was a Clarkie and after seeing Feingold in a dozen or so interviews, he's now a Russ guy. My Republican brother likes what he sees enough to give him a look. We still love the General, he's our second choice and he'd be the dream team ticket with Feingold.

Frenchie Cat, I know you feelings on this cause I've seen you bring it up in other threads. You make your points very well, it's duly noted. But please remember, we're on the same side, really. They're both stellar men, leader material - neither perfect, both with their pros and cons, but there's something about Russ, the "X" factor, something very special. The General has it too.

Agree to disagree.
:hi:

[Sugarcoated]

18. They'll smear anyone we put out there

one of the advantages of Feingold, for me, is I think he'd be one of the best Democrats to deflect/neutralize it. He stays on-point like no other. He's likable enough that the divorces aren't going to matter, IMO. How can they matter if they're running Newt and Rudy???

[karynnj]

22. Look at their top 2 candidates

McCain only had one divorce - but he divorced the wife who raised his kids alone while he was in VN to marry (within months) a 24 year old heiress. I say that beats 2 amicable divorces (which I'm heard his were).

Guilliani had 2 as well - the first when he realized that his wife of 14 years was a first cousin, not a second. Henry VIII has nothing on Guilliani in terms of nerve. The second had her divorce announced to the press before she was told.

My favorite candidate is not Feingold - but this is no reason not to support him.

[LynneSin]

26. Bush was a draft dodger and somehow was able to trump Kerry

It doesn't matter what their team is - it's how they smear our team

[karynnj]

35. That's actually the point

with Kerry they really had nothing. He really was a war hero, his protest days were commendable and he could prove he stayed within the system and actually pulled many angry people back into the system. Although he was not a saint, his personal and public life were pretty much scandal free - in spite of the FBI and the Boston papers following him.

It didn't matter - Bush had tons of scandal in his first 40 years- alcohol, drugs, branding Freshman, illegal loans, failed businesses, a reputation as a mean drunk. Who would have guessed the media would question the war hero/debate star/public servant and not this bum?

[election_2004]

23. Maybe Clark/Feingold would do the trick?

Less of a stigma for a V.P. candidate?

[LynneSin]

25. Well, I'm more for Gore, but Clark is good too

Our country just has some really fucked-up values and I'd hate to see this one used against us

[rucky]

19. Another poster made a great point about Gore....

if he runs, the more cynical, less informed people will be turned off and think he's just using the movie to publicize a candidacy.

If "An Inconvenient Truth" lives up to its potential, we could reverse global warming. I don't want Gore to do anything to make the issue even APPEAR to be politically motivated.

I think he would make an awesome president, but there has to be an overwhelming "Draft Gore" movement for that to proceed.

Feingold would also make an awesome president, as would Wes Clark, Barbara Boxer, Dennis Kucinich, etc...

but Gore is pretty much the one person on the planet who's in the best position to save it from global warming.

[pstans]

28. Russ all the way

This quote pretty much is spot on about Feingold...
"The amazing thing to me is not that he's saying it," said Marty Kaplan, a Massachusettes Democrat, of Feingold's criticisms of the administration on civil liberties and executive power. "But where are the rest of them?"

and this one too...
"So why is there so much quiet conventional wisdom grumbling that Senator Feingold isn't a viable candidate for the nomination in 2008? Personally, I don't see another congressional Democrat who is a better candidate -- one who can clearly articulate his position and do so without sounding weak or out of touch with the mainstream."

Feingold is the only one "who can clearly articulate his position and do so without sounding weak or out of touch with the mainstream" because he stands on principle. It is these principles and Feingold's charisma and simple midwestern way that will take him to the White House in 2008.

www.russforpresident.com
http://iowafeingold.blogspot.com

[DesertRat]

29. I'm for a Gore/Feingold ticket

I think that Russ is great, but I can't see him at the top of the ticket. First of all he's twice divorced and is Jewish. For those reasons alone he'd be a liability in red states.

[Pachamama]

31. I'm all for a Gore/Feingold ticket or anything that has either in it!

Al and Russ would make an amazing pair and bring real leadership and vision to this country! Together they would be so strong, but even if it was only one of them with another running mate, we (America) couldn't be luckier!

:patriot:

[cascadiance]

34. Kucinich has seemed to solve his "problem" quickly in 2005...

Perhaps Feingold can do the same. I hope he doesn't marry someone JUST to be better qualified as president. I'd like to see him marry someone for all of the right reasons.

If Gingrich can run at all with any sort of strength on the Republican side, then I think that dismisses the "affairs" business as just swift boating fodder and not substantive criticism that an *active* Democratic Party could find ways to dismiss. Gingrich has FAR MORE to be ashamed of with his past than Feingold does in this area, and that isn't even considering that Gingich's party is one that "prides themselves" at being more critical of candidates in these areas.

[Schema Thing]

30. I'm not letting go of Clark, but Feingold could kick some ass

I think with a Clark/Feingold as a ticket you get:

a) a winning ticket, hands down. We own the white house.

b) you get Clark's amazing "fix it" skills for 8 years

c) you get Feingold's skills for another 8 years.


Hell, we might just be able to save the planet with those two.

I really wish they'd take the radical step of joining together to run for the presidency rather than competing. It would change the world.

[MoonRiver]

32. 8 years of President Clark and Vice President Feingold,

followed by 8 years of President Feingold. Heaven returns to earth, and all is well, after our long tenure in purgatory. Dream come true.
O8)

[iconoclastNYC]

37. I think Feingold has cross over appeal

His leadership against the Iraq war, against the Patriot act, and his unflenching criticism of the president appeals to Paleocons.

[zonkers]

38. I felt that way too. He is sharp as a tack. A great communicator.

Right there in the moment, focused and even keeled. Never stumped or flummoxed. He was impressive.

[Doremus]

39. I would be proud to work my tail off for either or both. n/t