Iraqi sovereignty: myth or reality ... what say you???

[welshTerrier2]

the Iraqis have held elections ... they've drafted a Constitution ... and now they've formed a so-called "unity government" ...

over the last week or two, we've even heard rumblings about pushing for the withdrawal of US troops ... interesting that this happened immediately after it was announced Rove wouldn't be indicted ... interesting that it happened during bush's big political push with a newly energized Rove ... interesting that it happened immediately after bush visited Iraq ... interesting that it happened just as the republicans were needing a new Iraq policy before the November elections ...

who exactly is calling the shots here? are you buying any of this or is it clear to you that the Iraqi government is doing what they're told to do by the bush administration?

is the Iraqi government's "sovereignty" myth or reality? to me, it's clearly myth ... to John Kerry, who had originally called for "immediate withdrawal" as of May 22 if the Iraqis didn't form an "effective unity government", it's apparently reality ... is he right? have the Iraqis formed an effective unity government justifying his extension of time for the occupation first to 12/31/06 and then AGAIN to 7/1/07??

or, do you believe as I do, that the Iraqi government is a US puppet that does what it's told to do??? what's your two cents on this???

here's what Scott Ritter says:

source: http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/38011/

For all of the talk of a free Iraq, the fact is Iraq remains very much an occupied nation where the United States (and its ever decreasing "coalition of the willing") gets to call all the shots.

Iraqi military policy is made by the United States. Its borders are controlled by the United States. Its economy is controlled largely by the United States. In fact, there simply isn't a single major indicator of actual sovereignty in Iraq today that can be said to be free of overwhelming American control. Iraqi ministers continue to be shot at by insurgent forces, and Iraqi police are powerless to investigate criminal activities carried out by American troops (or their mercenary counterparts, the so-called "Private Military Contractors"). The reality of this myth is that the timeline for the departure of American troops from Iraq is being debated (and decided) in Washington, D.C., not Baghdad. Of course, as with everything in Iraq, the final vote will be made by the people of Iraq. But these votes will be cast in bullets, not ballots, and will bring with them not only the departure of American troops from Iraq, but also the demise of any Iraqi government foolish enough to align itself with a nation that violates international law by planning and waging an illegal war of aggression, and continues to conduct an increasingly brutal (and equally illegitimate) occupation. <skip>

[atreides1]

1. I say it's a myth

[Sal Minella]

2. The 100 Bremer Orders are still in place and some of them will hold

sway over that country's policies for 40 years -- rather shoots down the pretense of a sovereign government left to its own affairs.

[truth2power]

7. Bremer's 100 orders...

This is the singular issue that overrides all the others, IMO. And nobody...NOBODY is willing to ask the Insect about it.

If our worthless media had any balls, they would keep asking day after day after day... "Uh, yes..Mr. Shit-for-brains, Sir, how does Bremer's order #XX allow the Iraqis to be sovereign?"

Of course I realize Bush would be at pains to process the concept of "sovereign". Nevertheless, he should be hammered relentlessly about this.

Yeah...in my dreams! :eyes:

[alvarezadams]

3. In Afghanistan...

... a local was asked about the government.

His answer was, more or less, "which one? Yours (the coalition's), the Taliban's, or Karazai's?"

[welshTerrier2]

4. that about says it all ...

Afghanistan is rapidly worsening ...

check out this post: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/welshTerrier2/56

and, if you haven't read the post, or at least the linked article, check out this one about Iraq: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2701939&mesg_id=2701939

[sandnsea]

5. I say it doesn't friggin' matter

If we ever want to get out of that country, we treat it like it's the real Iraqi government, keep pushing their troops to the front, and keep saying they're ready to stand on their own two feet. I don't see any other quick way out of there.

I don't see how it does any good to keep pushing Iraq further and further down the road to chaos and all out civil war.

[leftofthedial]

6. puppets!

little things

hitting each other

that's what I like