McKinney being Diebolded!

[reprehensor]

http://cynthiaforcongress.com/news.php?id=26

July 18, 2006
URGENT: Diebold Electronic Machines Malfunction, Vote for Other Candidate

FOR IMMEDITATE RELEASE
Contact: Jocco Baccus
678-520-2088

(Decatur) After one hour of voting, the McKinney campaign has received numerous calls that the voting machines are malfunctioning. Voters casting votes for McKinney are reportedly having their votes switched by the machines for Hank Johnson. This is not a new problem with Diebold machines. Lawyers for the campaign have been alerted and said that if this situation is not corrected, Cynthia McKinney for Congress will be forced to take additional measures.

[mod mom]

1. another discussion on ERD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x441140

[AzDar]

2. And awayyy we go. It's practice for November, y'all. n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

3. "If this situation is not corrected"

Okaayyyy...what about the damage that has ALREADY been done?

[Roland99]

4. No shit! Get on it NOW!!!

[Julius Civitatus]

5. Diebold machines ALWAYS switch votes to the Republican candidate

How convenient, isn't it?

[wyldwolf]

8. one problem with your statement

This is a Democratic primary. There is no Republican in it.

[Julius Civitatus]

11. Oooops, sorry for that. Thought he was Republican

:blush:

[wyldwolf]

12. ..and apparently there has only been one instance...

..and even THAT one instance is debatable.

Remember, with voting machines, there can be no overvotes.

[rinsd]

30. Its kind of strange though

To be on such high alert, I thought Johnson would be lucky to get 30% in this race.

[Rosemary2205]

6. I live in her district.

Was able to vote for her no problem. And yes I TRIPLECHECKED! Poll worker where I voted is also good neighbor and said the only difficulties all day were the new computer check in system they are using. Some names left off and some being put under the wrong precinct. Also 2 voters the first 15 minutes of the day -- person complained that they had a Democrat ballot when they requested Republican -- the error had to do with poll worker error using that new check in system.

I contacted Atlanta WSB news about this and they said the only problems they had heard about as of 1pm was in Cherokee county - late opening, and that same trouble with the check in system - not in McKinney's district and not having to do with switched votes.

I assume the problem, wherever it was, was corrected fairly quickly because it seems to be a big non event.

Edit -- sorry I managed to hit a button and cut off too soon.

I'm eager to see what the reports are later in the day. As of 1pm the Dekalb Co. elections office says they have not heard about anything other than poll workers fighting with the check in system.

[Sammy Pepys]

7. Yeah, I haven't heard anything...

I don't live in McKinney's district (or Georgia for that matter), but have a lot of Georgia dealings and would've heard about this if something major was happening.

[nickshepDEM]

53. ...

[petgoat]

99. How do you know you voted no problem?

It's a black box voting machine. You don't know what happens to your vote after
you input it.

I saw a great bumpersticker:

Don't Blame Me! My Vote Wasn't Counted.

[wyldwolf]

9. so Democrats are rigging her election?

[God Almighty]

13. Hank Johnson was put in the primary by a Republican religious group

They felt the best way to beat McKinney was to place one of their own in her primary.

[wyldwolf]

14. Really? I wasn't aware of that!

Any source material you can direct me to to read up on it?

I'm certainly not doubting you, but the same was essentially said of Denise Majette. I know Denise, and she's no Republican.

[rinsd]

15. Ya have a link for that?

Because Hank Johnson sure doesn't seem to be very Republican.

[wyldwolf]

16. I don't think its true

He was a Democratic county commissioner since 2001. Has he been a GOP operative in deep cover?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

18. well, I never like to say someone is being purposely dishonest...

... I mean, a lot of rumors and conspiracies float around the net. But this one just seems way out there.

[formernaderite]

117. unfortunately it sounds as if Cynthia is worried she's losing

I actually appreciate her bravado, but the folks back home may be cringing. Accusing anyone who runs against her as being a repub puppet is just plain sad.

[LittleClarkie]

20. Here is Hank's webpage. He's sure doing a good Dem impersonation

http://www.hankforcongress.com/

If he's a spy, he's a damn good one.

[wyldwolf]

23. well, the GOP is getting crafty these days

I've heard they're raising children in Democratic districts, running them as Dems when they're old enough, then they plan to reveal they're really Republicans. Deep deep cover!

[LittleClarkie]

25. (pulls off mask)

And I'd have gotten away with it too if not for you damn kids!!

[God Almighty]

19. The Independent Conservative is pushing him

It's a front for Republican politics. A while back they said they couldn't beat McKinney in the general election and the best they could do was to beat her in the primary by having Hank Johnson run there.

[wyldwolf]

21. So?

That's a long way from saying Johnson was "put in the primary by a Republican religious group."

[LittleClarkie]

22. Still would like some proof or a link. He sure quacks like a Dem

How would he get elected and then turn 180 from all he's saying on his website?

[rinsd]

26. So let me get this straight

An obscure blog makes a couple of posts about Hank Johnson which were backhanded compliments more reflective of the blogger's hatred of McKinney than anything else and that makes Johnson a republican? Even worse you seem to be implying that Johnson is a plant.

Yet you staunchly defended soliciting funding for an actual republican?

[T Town Jake]

51. Still waiting on that link to back up your assertions, God.

(n/t)

[LittleClarkie]

54. God don't need no stinkin' links.

He's God, after all.

(That's it. I'm going to hell. Stand back. I'm about to be hit by lightning.)

[TrueFunkSoldier]

24. That's not the point...

Here are the points:

1. McKinney is from a very safe district. I am a former constituent of hers. Decatur is even more progressive than the City of Atlanta. There's no way in hell for Cynthia to lose the primary to a virtual unknown.

2. McKinney lost to Denise Majette, a black conservative DemoCrap, only 4 years ago. Some people speculated that Diebold was flipping the votes to Denise, making it easier for her to win. Turns out Majette's campaign was being funding by right-wing fascists who hate McKinney and wanted her out of Congress.

3. The objective of flipping the votes is obviously so that McKinney loses the primary. Johnson wins primary, loses the general election to a Repug. Either way, the goal is once again to dispose of McKinney.

This is sick!

[rinsd]

27. Sigh....

"1. McKinney is from a very safe district. I am a former constituent of hers. Decatur is even more progressive than the City of Atlanta. There's no way in hell for Cynthia to lose the primary to a virtual unknown."

Yes, its a safe Democratic district. This is where you stray ointo lala land.

"2. McKinney lost to Denise Majette, a black conservative DemoCrap, only 4 years ago. Some people speculated that Diebold was flipping the votes to Denise, making it easier for her to win. Turns out Majette's campaign was being funding by right-wing fascists who hate McKinney and wanted her out of Congress."

At least get your BS right. The "consipracy" was that crossover votes(in GA open primary where party affiliation is not declared) cost McKinney the election.

Also show me a link where Majette was funded by the rw? Or are you gonna go for McKinney's father's famous excuse. Majette had a fine liberal voting record in her one term and it would have been great if she could have captured the Senate seat. I hope Denise beats Cox for the Sup. of State Schools.

" 3. The objective of flipping the votes is obviously so that McKinney loses the primary. Johnson wins primary, loses the general election to a Repug. Either way, the goal is once again to dispose of McKinney.

Logical fallacy. You just stated its a very safe district, indeed one so progressive it would be hard for McKinney to lose a primary. So how would a Democrat then lose to a republican?

[TrueFunkSoldier]

31. They want McKinney OUT! That's the bottom line...

Insult me if you want, but they want McKinney out of Congress. While Majette was no Repug, she most definitely is a conservative Democrat. Regardless of what you think of McKinney (and it has nothing to do with her father, by the way), if the people of Decatur City and Dekalb County want her as their rightful representative, then gosh-darnit, she should be elected to Congress. Just because she's Cynthia McKinney and many of you hate her doesn't mean that her constituents hate her as well. Yes, she's from a safe district where most people are fairly progressive. So then explain to me why all the sinister tactics and surreptitious antics to interfere with this primary? They'd much rather have anyone but McKinney, which is the point I was making.

[wyldwolf]

33. I want her out. But you're right about one thing...

if the people of Decatur City and Dekalb County want her as their rightful representative, then gosh-darnit, she should be elected to Congress. if they don't, then she should lose.

[rman]

83. If the people don't want her, then they don't need any 'help' from the RW

[wyldwolf]

84. McKinney represents them, too

[rman]

85. You know what kind of 'help' i'm referring to.

It's illegal and undemocratic.

[wyldwolf]

89. illegal and undemocratic?

How so?

[rman]

90. cross-over voting isn't, but diebolding is

It's interesting to see though, how certain dems side with republicans on certain issues.

[wyldwolf]

91. there is no evidence of "Diebolding"

[petgoat]

102. Voters' testimony that their votes were switched isn't evidence? nt

[wyldwolf]

103. if such "testimony" existed

[petgoat]

118. You're saying Rep. McKinney's people are liars? nt

[rinsd]

120. Yes, campaigns never lie.

:eyes:

[wyldwolf]

124. who?

What are their names?

[themaguffin]

128. How about "who" is claiming the Diebolding?

In GA, there could easily be as with before - crossover voters.

I love that the wingnuts hate her - but that hate has made them determined each time to forgo their own primary in favor ousting her, with anybody that doesn't have her name.

[wyldwolf]

141. you think crossover voters are claiming "diebolding"

...and that they have before?

[rinsd]

34. "sinister tactics and surreptitious antics"

What are you talking about?

Do you mean her skipping the debate and her opponents making a stink about it?

That's old hat for incumbents and challengers.

Or do you mean people actually haveing the gall to run against her?

"While Majette was no Repug, she most definitely is a conservative Democrat."

More conservative than McKinney? I would tend agree. But you didn't say that. I'm not a McKinney fan but at no point have I insulted her.

"
if the people of Decatur City and Dekalb County want her as their rightful representative, then gosh-darnit, she should be elected to Congress."

Exactly. She is their representative should they choose her. Same deal with any other Democrat that gains enough votes to win election.

[RangerSmith]

69. I disagree

At least in the scheme of who they run against.

She is the poster child for the hard core right about what's wrong with Dems today.

They want her front and center with a Dem party name tag pasted on her forehead.

[petgoat]

101. The movie "American Blackout" has an interview with the

Republican who took credit for the 2002 crossover campaign.

It's a biopic about Rep. McKinney. Due for release next month!

[wyldwolf]

28. here are a few other points

1. Lieberman is from a safe district. Has it ever occured to anyone that there are some who don't like her like there are some who don't like Lieberman? Plus the AJC and Creative Loafing have endorsed her opponent.

2. I know Denise Majette. She isn't a "conservative DemoCrap."

3. There is no indication that Johnson will win the primary. And even if he does, there's no indication the district will elect a Republican.

[LittleClarkie]

29. By that same logic we should be agin lesser known Lamont going after

the very entrenched Lieberman, possibly losing his seat to the Republicans as well.

Or is this just a bad thing when it's a candidate you like?

Hello, and welcome to democracy.

[OKNancy]

36. FYI -Denise Majette had one of the most liberal voting records

in the whole House.
Check it out.

[LittleClarkie]

37. Sneaky Republicans

She's on deep, DEEP cover.

;)

[OKNancy]

39. I just hate this kind of misinformation. I see it way too much

Her voting record as ranked by the ADA ( Americans for Democratic Action) for 2003, for example was 100%. Highest of all Georgia Representatives... even higher than John Lewis.
http://www.adaction.org/2003housevr.htm

[LittleClarkie]

38. It appears that Denise doesn't deserve either the label

conservative OR the label "DemoCrap". She appears to have gotten them merely for opposing McKinney. That is just wrong.

[rinsd]

40. DemoCrap? Hmmmm................

Shall I do the dance or do you know what song is playing?

[leesa]

32. Remember the recall election in California? Lot's of vote switching to

Dem candidates that shouldn't have gotten votes outside of their district because no one would have even known them. If the race is thrown for McKinney's opponent, you think the GOP might not like that?

[wyldwolf]

35. I don't care what the GOP thinks of the outcome of that race

If McKinney loses, she loses. If she wins, she wins.

[Capn Sunshine]

42. You know very well Diebold is about control, not party.

I use Georgia frequently to demonstrate that thisis a non partisan issue.

It's all about top-down control.
I don't know why you'd have a problem with that.

Wait, yes I do. :hi:

[wyldwolf]

45. I also know that in this case, McKinney's people are using it as a crutch

One person apparently accidently voted for the wrong person and finalized the ballot, then claimed the machine changed her vote.

boo hoo!

You know very well Diebold is about control, not party.

How many times have rigged voting machines helped a Democrat win?


I don't know why you'd have a problem seeing this.

Wait, yes I do. :hi:

[rman]

86. No. Repubs do. See 2002 election crossover votes defeat McKinney

Crossover votes - repubs wanted to get rid of McKinney, knew they could not get a republican elected, so they organized repub voters to vote for McKinney'd Dem opponent.


Lawsuit Challenges McKinney Primary Defeat
Nov. 1, 2002
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110402_mckinney.html

...

Defendants named in the suit are the Georgia and DeKalb Republican parties, the Georgia Democratic Party, Majette, Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox, and the DeKalb and Gwinnett election supervisors.

Republican strategist Mark Davis candidly admits to organizing a crossover effort for the 4th District race. But according to Georgia law, he said, there was nothing illegal about it.

...

Davis claimed Majette's victory over five term incumbent McKinney was indeed largely the result of his and other Republicans' organized effort promoting the crossover vote. According to Davis' analysis of the race, nearly 24,000 crossover votes were cast for Majette, who topped McKinney by 19,554 votes overall.

McKinney won 61 percent of Democratic votes totaling 49,058. More than 50 percent of Majette's 68,612-vote total came from Republicans or registered Democrats who tend to vote Republican.

...

[wyldwolf]

108. was this illegal?

No.

[petgoat]

100. The Republicans organized a crossover vote campaign

in the 2002 primary that cost McKinney her congressional seat.

The fact that Rep. McKinney's Democratic rival is the beneficiary
of Diebold machine rigging does not mean a Democrat did the rigging.

Are you aware of the unbelievable shift between the pre-election polls
and the Diebold results in the GA 2002 Senate and Gubernatorial races?
Stunning Republican Upset Victory!

[wyldwolf]

109. uh...

The Republicans organized a crossover vote campaign in the 2002 primary that cost McKinney her congressional seat.

So? Since there is no official party registration in GA, people can vote as they wish. Nothing illegal there.

The fact that Rep. McKinney's Democratic rival is the beneficiary
of Diebold machine rigging does not mean a Democrat did the rigging.

WHAT Diebold machine rigging?

Are you aware of the unbelievable shift between the pre-election polls
and the Diebold results in the GA 2002 Senate and Gubernatorial races?
Stunning Republican Upset Victory!

Yes. What does this have to do with Cynthia McKinney?

[Rosemary2205]

10. UPDATE from McKinney's page

So there was only one voter that complained the machine switched her vote and she didn't complain before she hit the "cast ballot" button?


And yes, there have been complaints in many precincts about the "electronic pollbooks" -- which I was calling "check in" in another post. -- shameful that poll workers didn't get trained well enough and that voters were not well informed that they had been reassigned to new voting locations.



http://cynthiaforcongress.com/news.php?id=27


Two Hours Into Voting, More Problems Recorded With Diebold Electronic Machines, Pollbooks
Just after the polls opened, numerous problems with Diebold electronic voting machines were noted. At one Rockdale precinct, reportedly a single Diebold machine malfunction affected the performance of the entire sequence of machines assigned to that precinct. Additionally, one machine didn't have a plug and sat idle. In addition, workers were not adequately trained on the use of the electronic pollbooks, resulting in unneccessary voter frustration.

When one McKinney voter realized too late that her intended vote had been switched by the voting machine to a McKinney opponent, the polling place official's response was "she needs to let us know next time before she casts her ballot." McKinney campaign officials want to know, what about this time?

[TrueFunkSoldier]

41. On Majette

This is what I'm sure of:

1. She was a former Republican, converted to Democrat and a protege of Zell Miller.

2. She is a self-professed conservative Democrat, a member of the DLC

3. She accepted the council of Republican consultants and operatives when she ran against McKinney in 2002.

Other information:

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/3029/1/32
http://www.blackcommentator.com/84/84_dixon_georgia.html
http://www.blackcommentator.com/15_analysis.html

Majette was a voice for the black middle class intelligensia. Yes, she's pro-choice and yes, she voiced some concern for the environment, but compared to Cynthia and other progressives in the state, she was to the right of them. She was a member of the DLC and a darling of many conservative whites.

[wyldwolf]

43. Marxist thought online? LOL!

1. She was a former Republican, converted to Democrat and a protege of Zell Miller.

1. I keep seeing her referred to as a "former Republican" by the three dubious sources, but nothing to substantiate it. Also, at one time, Miller was quite liberal.

2. She is a self-professed conservative Democrat, a member of the DLC

So is Bill Clinton, John Edwards, etc. etc. What's your point?

3. She accepted the council of Republican consultants and operatives when she ran against McKinney in 2002.

Link? (other than Marxist Thought Online.)

but compared to Cynthia and other progressives in the state, she was to the right of them. She was a member of the DLC and a darling of many conservative whites.

She also had one of the most liberal voting records in the House.

[rinsd]

46. Here's the deal

It wasn't Marxist thought online(they just picked up the story), it was some org called Atlanta Progressive News.

The article stinks of payola since its a combo hit piece for Majette, love letter for Harrell and Harrell has the biggest web ad on their front page in which they are currently begging for donations.

All the crap about being a republican was ripped from the lawsuit by McKinney supporters that was thrown out. The citing of it as "court documents" and the use of "sources" say is so much bullshit that most DUers wouldn't tolerate from MSM but when you're being told what you want to hear its hard to smell the bullshit.

[wyldwolf]

47. ok, but...

Marxist Thought Online! Who would use THAT as a source! LOL!

[rinsd]

49. Ehhhh, the poster is likely new to the game

and didn't realize the source, just liked the message.

[LittleClarkie]

50. She's one o' dem der Liberal Conservative Republican Democrats

A flip flopper! Ieeeee!!!!!!

[rinsd]

44. That Atlanta Progressive News is an amateur hit piece

It appears that "sources say" is the most cited example most of which seems contradictory to everything out there.

The citing of "court documents" as a means of giving McKinney's supporters lawsuit bullshit an air of authenticity.

The whoile thing is a campaign ad for Harrell(1st half hit piece on Majette, 2nd half how great Harrell is) who just happens to have the largest web ad on their front page. For a news source, begging for funds.

Again, check out Majette's voting record and tell me that she would not have been a valuable asset in the Senate.

[LincolnMcGrath]

48. Make no mistake about it, the dlcentrists here want Cynthia to lose.

The media and the GOP have declared Cynthia to be a lightning rod of controversy, and based on the dlcentrist's loathing of rising the the occasion and defending what is right against the right, we can rest assured the dlcentrists will continue down this path.

[LittleClarkie]

52. But why would they be cheering on two other progressives who are NOT`

DLC, at least not in their actions. Denise has a very liberal record, and Hank appears to be quite progressive as well. From what I saw of his platform, he's against the war and for education, among other things.

So how is it bad that two progressives decided to run against another progressive? It's cool that Lamont is running against Lieberman, isn't it? Then the same should apply here? Let the people decide.

[LincolnMcGrath]

56. Did I refer to the either of the two new candidates at all in my post?

No you say?

Did I say anything was bad?

No you say?

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LincolnMcGrath]

58. Could it be any clearer?

The media and the GOP have declared Cynthia to be a lightning rod of controversy, and based on the dlcentrist's loathing of rising the the occasion and defending what is right against the right, we can rest assured the dlcentrists will continue down this path.

[TheVirginian]

60. Frankly, if I were the GOP or the media...

I would want Cynthia to win. Her flap with the police officers sold papers. Her actions inspire GOP press releases and fundraising. I don't understand why you think they'd be satisfied with replacing McKinney with another Democrat who doesn't attract as much negative attention. Cynthia McKinney is to the Democrats what Katherine Harris is to the Republicans.

[LincolnMcGrath]

61. Thank You for proving my point.

Fear wins nothing.


Ask Tom Daschle

[TheVirginian]

65. Huh?

[LittleClarkie]

63. Ain't that the truth. Hank doesn't look like he'd be nearly as much fun

nor provide nearly as much fodder.

[LittleClarkie]

62. Yep. It could be clearer.

"the dlcentrist's loathing of rising the the occasion"? Hrr?

And what path exactly?

[LincolnMcGrath]

66. reply #60 says it all really

"Her actions inspire GOP press releases and fundraising."

Oh Heavens No! Not the GOP.

Whats next? Will they say we are pimping for flag burners?

[LittleClarkie]

67. Actually reply 60 had a good point and disagreed with you

So, here we are. Still clear as mud.

[LincolnMcGrath]

68. Did I mention the GOP or the media?

PLEASE show us the good point made by mr. race card

[LittleClarkie]

71. Actually, you did.

And reply 60 says nothing about race.

Still murky.

[LincolnMcGrath]

72. Overlook the racist comment below if it helps you get by.

I did not mention what the GOP and the media want. I mentioned what the dlcentrists here want.

Which is for Cynthia to lose.

[TheVirginian]

74. Would you like to point me towards the racist comment I made?

[LincolnMcGrath]

76. Certainly! Post #59

McKinney supports have the added advantage of being able to use the race card (and believe me, they use it as often as they can)

[TheVirginian]

78. Neat. How is that racist?

[LincolnMcGrath]

79. Lets put it to a vote shall we.

[LittleClarkie]

81. We were talking about post 60, the one that said it all, and btw

"The media and the GOP have declared Cynthia to be a lightning rod of controversy..." Nah, you didn't mention the media or the GOP. No siree.

[LincolnMcGrath]

82. Thank you for telling ME what YOU DECIDED we were talking about!

BTW,

Lets discuss my original comment zippy.

[TheVirginian]

73. "The media and the GOP have declared Cynthia to be a lightning rod ..."

You typed it in size seven font so we wouldn't miss it. Funny that you did.

[LincolnMcGrath]

75. Funny that you keep missing these words

"and based on the dlcentrist's loathing of rising the the occasion and defending what is right against the right"




not to mention..."Make no mistake about it, the dlcentrists here want Cynthia to lose"

[TheVirginian]

77. No, I'm not missing any words.

But your point was about the GOP and the media, and I just pointed out that the GOP and the media would most likely want to keep McKinney right where she is.

[LincolnMcGrath]

80. Thank You for telling me what my point was about.

This is about the dlcentrists. I don't now, nor did I ever give 2 sh*t what the media or the GOP want.

My first Post in this thread stated my point quite clearly.

Make no mistake about it, the dlcentrists here want Cynthia to lose.

Was that clear enough?


Gotta go, County Central Committee Meeting time!

[rman]

87. ...who are not as 'bad' as McKinney - as seen from a RW perspective...

If they can't get a Repub or DLC Dem elected, at least they can try to get rid of McKinney. They even can and will get the repub electorate to vote for McKinney's opponent. It has happened before:



Lawsuit Challenges McKinney Primary Defeat
Nov. 1, 2002
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110402_mckinney.html

...

Defendants named in the suit are the Georgia and DeKalb Republican parties, the Georgia Democratic Party, Majette, Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox, and the DeKalb and Gwinnett election supervisors.

Republican strategist Mark Davis candidly admits to organizing a crossover effort for the 4th District race. But according to Georgia law, he said, there was nothing illegal about it.

...

Davis claimed Majette's victory over five term incumbent McKinney was indeed largely the result of his and other Republicans' organized effort promoting the crossover vote. According to Davis' analysis of the race, nearly 24,000 crossover votes were cast for Majette, who topped McKinney by 19,554 votes overall.

McKinney won 61 percent of Democratic votes totaling 49,058. More than 50 percent of Majette's 68,612-vote total came from Republicans or registered Democrats who tend to vote Republican.

...

[rinsd]

92. Uhhh......

"McKinney won 61 percent of Democratic votes totaling 49,058. More than 50 percent of Majette's 68,612-vote total came from Republicans or registered Democrats who tend to vote Republican. "

Registered? How pray tell were they registered Democrats when GA does not declare party affiliation except at the time of voting?

The analysis's I have seen mostly looked at rep leaning districts vs. Dem ones and the amount of votes garnered in each. Its a crapshoot to get hard data though I think general estimates can be made. I certainly believe crossover voting happened but to what extent is more difficult to determine.

And that lawsuit was laughed out of court.

Thus, relying on the Supreme Court's decision in California Democratic Party v. Jones, which had held that California's blanket primary violated the First Amendment (despite the fact that the Court explicitly differentiated - albeit in dicta - the blanket primary from the open primary in Jones), on McKinney's behalf, five voters claimed that the open primary system was unconstitutional, operating in violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, the associational right protected by the First Amendment, and various statutory rights protected by §2 of the Voting Rights Act.<2> The district court dismissed the case, noting that the plaintiffs had presented no evidence in support of the Equal Protection and VRA claims, and lacked standing to bring the First Amendment claim. It interpreted the Supreme Court's Jones ruling to hold that the right to association involved in a dispute over a primary - and thus, standing to sue - belongs to a political party, not an individual voter. On appeal, the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals upheld this result (Osburn v. Cox, 369 F.3d 1283 (2004)) in May 2004, noting that not only were the plaintiffs' claims meritless, but the remedy they requested would likely be unconstitutional under the Supreme Court's decision in Tashjian v. Republican Party of Connecticut. On October 18, 2004, the Supreme Court brought an end to the litigation, denying certiorari without comment (Osburn v. Georgia, 04-217) (cert denied, 541 U.S. __).<3>

[Spider Jerusalem]

123. I'm not a 'dlcentrist', and I want her to lose.

Not because of her politics, but because of her erratic and irresponsible personal behaviour, her grotesque arrogance and sense of entitlement--she seemed to think that she didn't need to campaign, debate, or even issue any position statements during this primary, and still thought she'd WIN against an actively campaigning opponent? Give me a fucking break--and her tendency to engage in what can be described as, at best, quixotic crusading, and at worst, rank grandstanding, which tendency detracts from her ability to effectively represent her district.

NB: I live in Georgia. I know many people who live in McKinney's district, all of whom are Democrats, most of whom are liberal, and many of whom are not entirely happy with her. I submit that my view is likely more informed than yours, since you live in Iowa and are, one imagines, largely ignorant of Georgia politics.

[LincolnMcGrath]

129. Did you hear the one about the guy from Georgia?

For someone with such an informed view, how did you miss the fact that you responded to a post that was not addressed to you? What's even odder is that you declare that fact in your first sentence, then blather on as if the rest of your post has anything to do with the post you replied to.

And with a family member in the Florida Senate, whose also happens to have a son in law who is a ATL lobbyist, only a fool imagines this Iowa Democrat largely ignorant of any politics, Georgia or elsewhere.

Not that I don't appreciate your input, you just put it in the wrong spot.

[Spider Jerusalem]

136. You seem to miss the fact...

that you're posting on a PUBLIC MESSAGE BOARD; if you don't want people you may not be directly addressing to respond, then I'd suggest you not do so. Otherwise you're in for a lot of frustration.

[LincolnMcGrath]

137. You seem to miss the fact that you should have responded to the

OP.

If you are not a dlcentrist, why tell me any of that? Why not air your hatred for Cynthia in the OP's thread tree, rather than a sidebar with one person?

[Spider Jerusalem]

138. Except...

the OP wasn't the one saying '"dlcentrists" want McKinney to lose', as though ONLY members of said group could desire that outcome. And I (quite properly) responded to the effect that your implication was incorrect, and that there are other reasons than those you imply for her relatively poor showing in the primary. It was YOUR POST that occasioned my response. Again, if you don't want people to respond to you (whether strictly on-topic or not) then don't post in a public forum. Also, it's amazingly presumptuous of you to tell me WHERE I ought to have responded; in the words of Lord Chesterfield, 'your bad manners are exceeded only by your bad manners'.

NB: Criticism of McKinney's performance and a belief that Georgia's Fourth Congressional District would be more competently represented by another Democrat is not 'hatred'.

[LincolnMcGrath]

139. So tell the OP!

I did not at any time say or imply ONLY, you did, just now.

Save the manners talk, your first ill advised foray into this sidebar threw that notion out the window.

[Spider Jerusalem]

140. ...

Again: for you to post something in a PUBLIC FORUM, and then to say that a response occasioned by your words belongs elsewhere, is tremendously ill-mannered--it wasn't the original post that occasioned my response, but your reply to it; are you incapable of grasping this simple point?

[LincolnMcGrath]

142. "Am I incapable of grasping this simple point?"

When I see a sign that says "DLCENTRIST ANONYMOUS meeting 7pm" I don't pull over, get out of the car, enter the building and inform them that "I am not DLCENTRIST, and I don't like anonymous meetings either." :shrug:

To each his own I guess.

[beaconess]

133. Hear hear!!!

[beaconess]

132. There are a whole lot of black folk in her district who want her out

McKinney seems to be much more popular amongst left-wing bloggers than she is with her own community, many of whom view her as a nutcase (including some of my own family).

[LincolnMcGrath]

134. And that has what to do with my comment?

[nickshepDEM]

55. I knew Diebold would come in handy sooner or later...

[rman]

88. Just more evidence that DLC = Repub in sheep's cloths

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LincolnMcGrath]

70. You are cool

Now put your pants back on.

[saltpoint]

93. I'm not ruling anything out, but is it at least possible that Johnson

simply did well?

Cathy Cox lost to Mark Taylor, didn't she? She was Georgia's Sec. of State and would have overseen the election process as its chief officer.

You'd think if there was any serious Diebolding to be done, she'd have Diebolded herself into the nomination over Taylor.

[rinsd]

94. I was surprised Johnson did that well.

He did get the AJC endorsement but I thought he would be 30 to 35% spliting any anti-McKinney vote with Coyne.

[saltpoint]

95. Yeah. It seems as if Johnson's appeal may have been more than some

may have thought -- I thought the percentage of turn-out would drive the results, but don't know how to prove that either.

This outcome doesn't have the Diebold stench. It just looks to me as if Johnson did well and earned the runoff.

[KamaAina]

107. Runoff?! Hoo boy.

In a primary?! I was wondering about that last night, but figured there were enough actual Ga. voters (I was once seriously considering becoming one, but it never panned out) on the threads that someone would've mentioned that.

Oh my. Pass the popcorn. :popcorn:

Did any other races, repuke ones in particular, go to a runoff? If not, this becomes a straight up-or-down referendum on Cynthia, with any and all 4th Dist. repukes free as birds to pull Johnson, er, I mean Dem ballots, and the reich-wing operatives, still smarting from Ralphie Boy's humiliation, at liberty to egg them on from the sidelines. Plus the media glare focuses solely on this one race, with all major outlets already in the Johnson camp...

Come to think of it, I'll have the extra-large tub... :popcorn:

[rinsd]

113. Only office going to a runoff for the GOP appears to be Sec of State

"Did any other races, repuke ones in particular, go to a runoff? If not, this becomes a straight up-or-down referendum on Cynthia, with any and all 4th Dist. repukes free as birds to pull Johnson, er, I mean Dem ballots, and the reich-wing operatives, still smarting from Ralphie Boy's humiliation, at liberty to egg them on from the sidelines. Plus the media glare focuses solely on this one race, with all major outlets already in the Johnson camp..."

I think I'll join you :popcorn:

[saltpoint]

119. It was my impression that Johnson and McKinney are now contestants

in a run-off election.

Is that not the case?

[KamaAina]

121. That is indeed the case. Now the "ABC" forces can let 'er rip.

that's "Anyone But Cynthia". Without any of their own races to bother with (now that Ralphie blew it big time!), they can now concentrate on bringing Cynthia down by backing Johnson, as the lesser of two evils, from their point of view. The post above notes that the only race on the repuke primary ballot is Sec. of State, hardly enough to keep repuke voters from crossing over if their leadership wants it that way (it does). Stay tuned...

[rinsd]

122. Talk about your low turnouts....

If the primary only garnered 23%, how low is a runoff going to be?

[wyldwolf]

105. he got the Creative Loafing and Urban Independent endorsements as well

[SteppingRazor]

96. Given Ralph Reed's loss in the GOP primary...

I'm a little shaky on the Diebold connection in Georgia. The current powers that be have no better friend than that smarmy little dude, so why would they not install him as Lt. Gov.?

[rinsd]

97. Cox too.....(nt)

[God Almighty]

110. Reed lost because the Repubs all crossed over to vote against McKinney

I hope they can't do this in the runoff.

[rinsd]

112. Any links? Or are you gonna play hit and run again?

[onenote]

116. LOL!! Just making stuff up now, aren't we!

One might just as easily argue that Reed lost because Democrats crossed over to vote for his opponent. I have no idea if that happened, but its more consistent with the voting numbers than the claim that there was a surge of repub voters for Johnson. In 2002, McKinney got over 48000 votes in the primary. This time she got under 30,000. The total number of votes cast in the Democratic primary this time dropped from over 95,000 to under 62,000. Oh, and keep in mind that Reed lost by over 49,000 votes...you think they all (or even a significant number) were all from McKinney's district?

Exactly what backs up your claim that Reed's dedicated RW support abandoned him just to cast a vote against McKinney.

[fuzzyball]

114. Excellent, Excellent point Stepping Razor!!!!!!!! n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

98. The GOP has been hacking Dem primaries for a while.

[wyldwolf]

106. hacking? How so?

[fuzzyball]

115. I am afraid that is a perfectly LEGAL procedure...

It has happenned before and it will happen again, in BOTH parties.

[petgoat]

104. Pubs are scared of Cynthia because she's fearless.

Here's a sampling of the questions she asks:

"Is it policy of the US government to reward
companies that traffic in women and little girls?"

She asks about the Pentagon's missing $2.3 trillion
(announced by Rummy 9-10-01).

She asks for information about four simultaneous
wargames that took place on 9/11 and disrupted
the air defense.

Here's the video. Watch Rummy squirm.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2005/240305mckinneygrills.htm

I think I'm in love. Watch for the biopic "American Blackout" in
August.

[God Almighty]

111. She's their number one target. I'm hoping she beats them in the runnoff

[beaconess]

135. No one is afraid of McKinney - except her own constituents

Who rightly think she's an ineffective loose cannon who consistently allows her prima donna foolishness trump her responsibility to represent her constituents.

[onehandle]

125. Bullshit.

McKinney is very unpopular in Dekalb County. If she loses the runoff, it's her own fault.

[The Onyx Key]

126. Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick...

...too many people wathing the X-Files and listening to Art Bell around here. Take off the tinfoil hats, people.

[petgoat]

127. Diebold has a history in Georgia of installing illegal software

on their machines, which then go on to record stunning upset victories
for Republicans.

[LynneSin]

130. Actually this one is real

Max Cleland went into the 2002 election with a pretty decent lead and exit polls mirrored that same lead.

Saxby Chambliss won. Georgia is pretty messed up

[theboss]

131. Why are these complaints never to the poll workers?

I've never understood that.